Henry120:


The allegation that the creator of the chart, cherry picked specs, is simply baseless, and un-founded.

The compared specs of both Aircrafts using the same characteristics. The chart showed the JF-17 block 1 been similar to the Gripen C/D

On the block II.
"The Block-II JF-17 has improved avionic systems, air-to-air refuelling capability, additional weapons carriage capability and some extra operational capabilities, according to the air force.
It is designed as a lightweight multi-role aircraft, with a claimed top speed of Mach 2.0 and operational ceiling of 55,000 feet."

http://tribune.com.pk/story/803113/pakistan-looks-to-boost-military-export-with-revamped-jf-17/


The JF-17 operates an open architecture, what's to say customers can't instead chose to get improved avionics or AESA and IRST capabilities from a 3rd party?


Now this same argument pops up again, I see no reason why the chinese should leave out an independent chinese J-10 fighter development for a similar fighter with a partner. It is at the discretion of the chinese to chose what ever fighter they want.


Newer Fighters are generally based on older models, as you said, the JF-17 is a "further development", it isn't and would not be a MIG-21 family aircraft. It is the Sino-pak JF-17.


The JAS 39 Gripen is also based on an older SAAB model aircraft. I do not see what the fuss is.

Corruption, Corruption, isn't this our default tone?

Nigeria has to take into account it's threats, and make an informed decision on the best fighter for airforce. Taking into account availability of spares, political environment, military relationship, cost to threat level/ ratio.

All with nothing to do with corruption. The JF-17 is a fantastic aircraft which fully integrates D.S.I in it's design.

If Nigeria eventually pens down the deal, it would most likely go for the Block II, as the block 1 isn't a veritable option.

Baseless and unfounded? How so? I have given you the manufacturers website which lists out the specs and which contradicts the chart made by fans.If you are willing to believe fan charts over manufacturer's data, I have nothing more to say. Patriotism is good, but not at the expense of rationality.

The block 2 does all that yes, but not Mach 2. If anything its speed might even be less due to strengthened airframe(which increases weight) and the same engine. Let the claim by the press become a reality first, against laws of physics and aerodynamics.

One needs more than an open architecture(which btw is not like replacing RAM from their motherboard sockets) to fit an AESA and IRST. Is there enough space for sufficient AESA cooling and IRST in the nose? Please provide verifiable links from manufacturer.

The chinese rejected the fighter although they are falling behind their operation squadron numbers and their j-10 production is not fast enough to arrest the decline. Says a lot.

Yes, jf-17 is a further development of the mig-21 family.

Did nigeria choose the jf-17 after opening a tender and faced off with competing tenders? I dont think so. Single vendor purchases are a cesspool for corruption. The fact that jf-17 made the cut means that the Airforce cannot spend more or they were bribed.

You are more likely a South African.

Your written English and composition of language is very similar to the pattern of we Africans, when a non-African writes so long an English passage, I will tell the difference because I live in an English speaking country where all nationalities/tribes/tongues/races from across the world live and we can tell the difference from how they write and speak English language.

I suspect you are a fake, you are very very likely a South African making false claims of Nationality here.

Now a few answers for you as reply to all the errors and ignorance you displayed in your aircraft analysis.

You call your self an aviation enthusiast and you don't know that most jet fighters of today evolved from older models cheesy

MiG-21 evolved to MiG-23, MiG-23 evolved to MiG 25 with extra one tail added, MiG-25 evolved into MiG-29.

Draken evolved into Viggen, Viggen evolved into Gripen.

Only a fool of a pilot will assume that since MiG-21 evolved into MiG-29, when he fights MiG-29 in air combat, it is same as fighting a MiG-21, that pilot will just make his wife a widow and his children fatherless like a fool cheesy

JF-17 Thunder is NOT a simple jet and NOT close to F-7 Airguard.

JF-17 engine is Russian, it's avionics are a mix of West European and Chinese, it's weapons are a mix of West European and Chinese.

Italian, French, Russian, American, Chinese, British avionics-weapons-technology are mixed into JF-17 Thunder.

If anyone says JF-17 is junk, then the Europeans are junk manufacturers and the Gripen too is Junk cheesy

J-10 Dragon is almost same as JF-17 in capability, the JF-17 was built from the ready made J-10 engineering works, thus the Pakistanis got many things free or cheap from Chinese technology transfer, that is the secret of the cheap price of JF-17 Thunder.

Next, the Chinese will not buy JF-17 because it is same basic engineering works as the J-10, simple common sense.

Why does South Africa not import Israeli MRAPs? You produce yours with about equal capabilities, simple common sense.

I think common sense is one thing you seem to lack, mister MiG-23....your name is an obsolete jet fighter and so is your brain cheesy

Thank you sir.

Good for you augustine. But does it matter if I'm a south african or even a boko haram member when it comes down to verifiable facts? Does it alter reality if I'm from a different country?
On a side note, if you are really bothered by it just ask the admins where i come from.

I assure you, MiG-23 certainly didn't evolve from the MiG-21. Read about its history to know why swing wing MiG-23 was made and its development history. And I certainly am not going to indulge in MiG-25 evolved from the MiG-23...that's insanity at the worst degree or Lack of sufficient knowledge or both.

JF-17 does not have European weapons. Please name an European weapon JF-17 boasts except for its Russian Podded Gun(JF-17 doesn't even have an internal gun).

If JF-17 is almost the same as J-10, why arent the Chinese buying JF-17 to arrest their falling squadron strength because of slow production of J-10 and the J-11?


And Finally, JF-17 does not have HMS/HMDS/HMD. Statements from wikipedia without references to back them up are just a poorly written wiki article which should be cleaned. Maybe i'll do that if I have time. There were some tests which were carried out and the results were unknown but in the end HMS/HMDS was not incorporated on the JF-17's production model. Most likely the results of those tests were a failure for unknown reasons.

JF-17 Block 1 or Block 2 does not have any HMS/HMDS/HMD. Fact!

Yea, it is a radically modified MiG-21. The chinese have been known to modify MiG-21s/J-7/F-7s. Some of their experiments/variations


Chin intake J-7


Belly intake J-7 with Canards


Twin engine J-7, called the J-8.

[img]http://3.bp..com/-jOftZb3DAQA/TvbsI41UwlI/AAAAAAAAKIY/FOgs-ELiQ1A/s1600/reconnaissance+aircraft+China%252CHigh-speed+reconnaissance+aircraft%252C+F-8FR+high-speed+reconnaissance+aircraft.jpg[/img]
Twin engine J-7 with Lateral Intakes, called the J-8II


As you can see, Chinese know the MiG-21 inside out and some up with some very radical variations. But in the end, their primary fighter is the J-11 copy of the Su-27/30 family and the J-10 which is based on the Israeli lavi. JF-17 is a fighter which China(PLAAF) REJECTED in favor of J-10s and J-11s.




@Henry Did they now? Sorry to hear that. I'm sure the State Department had their reasons, or they don't and are just being assholes throwing their weight around.

@Jl115 Nice to know. ^_^ I'm from Pittsburg.


Regards,
-23

Henry120:


Would respond in due course. However, good a thing you mentioned it's a "further development".

Let me take a guess, you're European.

North American actually. I'm from the states.

Double post. Sorry.

Double post.

Double post.

Double post.

Not to mention the fact that JF-17 is just a further development of the 1950's MiG-21 family. I dont know about you but I wouldn't want to go into battle in 2020 in a heavily modified 1950's MiG-21.

Henry120:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1914829_kland_jpege8fcff8bcb00521d044817a29bd74964
My response

Hi all,

Just found this forum by chance and wanted to set some facts right. I'm not a Nigerian, or even an African. Never even been to Africa actually. Just an Aviation Enthusiast.

The above chart was compiled by Pakistani JF-17 Fans and they cherry pick specs when the jf-17 was still in development. The production variant specs can be found in Pakistan Aeronautical Complex's official website - http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

And also the latest IDEAS 2014 which was concluded just 3 days back - http://s3.postimg.org/qfq5j5d83/2014_IDEAS_JF_17_Specifications_Infoboard_Placar.jpg

Here is another link which consolidates all Official sources and lists out the specifications. It's very meticulous and technical, so might not appeal for casual Aviation fans. http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/texts/articles/jf-17specifications.html
But in the end it rounds off with the Specifications, if you just want the final result.

Also, Block 3 is not even on the drawing board. And its unclear whether Nigeria will receive Block 1 or Block 2. Actually the deal hasn't even been signed yet. It's in final stages according to Pakistani officials. And the only changes to Block 2 from Block 1 are the mid-air refueling probe and some avionics improvement. JF-17, either block 1 or Block 2 has no AESA, no IRST, no HMS/HMDS,

The only fighters PAF gets these days are the cheap JF-17s(and free F-16s from U.S WoT payments and donations which stipulates Pakistani should only buy U.S hardware from the money they give) and there is a reason for that. We are basically talking about a fighter which even the main developer, China, has refused to induct in its own airforce. That doesn't inspire much confidence if you ask me. The only reason pakistan wants this fighter is because it cannot get anything else. It is basically broke. It cannot even get J-10 because the chinese demanded $45 million a pop for the fighter, and PAF cannot afford it.

Not to mention the fact that JF-17 is just a further development of the 1950's MiG-21 family. I dont know about you but I wouldn't want to go into battle in 2020 in a heavily modified 1950's MiG-21.
http://s13.postimg.org/l52243t13/grumman_super_7_sabre_II_1_big.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/3t1pinzjr/grumman_super_7_sabre_II_2_big.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/u2ms1glh3/grumman_super_7_sabre_II_3_big.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/6ux36d22f/jf_17_prototype_1.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/rivql3nav/super_7_jf_17_1.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/ha39f9z93/super_7_jf_17_2.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/miyad5ho7/mig_21_jf_17_family.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/aq0h8xl87/jf_17_mig_21.jpg


My personal opinion, Nigeria would be better off with J-10s or MiG-29Ms or even Su-30s. If they are selecting JF-17 against all these options, it means there is some other factors involved.. one factor Nigeria's Airforce doesn't have much money to spend or basically there is corruption involved in this deal.

Regards,
-23