At least you're honest

MaxInDHouse:


I aren't denying that it's whatever the GB teaches that all members of Watchtower must dance to. Remember that it's whatever Christ teaches that all Christians must dance to and Jesus himself said his Apostles are serving as branches so nobody can connect to Jesus without his Apostles! John 15:1-6

We believe that the GB serves as our own Apostles today as they interprets what their first century brothers penned down.
So whether they're right or wrong nobody can know that's why Jesus said:

The product of each religion will prove whether those overseeing it are working with God's Holy Spirit. Matthew 7:18

So instead of arguing blindly over what you and i read in the Bible why not concentrate on which group is producing the fruitage of FAITH? Remember it's the same kind of people throughout the world that each religion is teaching so watch out for the product of each religion. That's what Jesus Christ said, if truly you believe in his word!

Sakir:



Nothing wrong in Pentecostal church, I just developed great love for Catholic Church, I am born again as a Pentecostal church member.

Thank you for responding back. I have a very interesting reason for asking these but I'll reply when freer. Not every time someone wants to judge someone, who am I, am i God?

You'll see soon in my responses when freer

MaxInDHouse:


By their FRUITS you will know them! Matthew 7:16

The product of each religion will speak for those overseeing them! Luke 7:35 compare to Matthew 7:17-18

Ain't this lovely!

When it is about others, they must look to the word itself and not what their sect teaches, but when it's your own turn, no problem, it no longer applies, you must look at fruit leaving that one alone. You're above and beyond what your require of others. Beautiful!

tctrills:

There are good and bad questions. There are judgemental questions. I believe you could teach him from the bible if you think the pentecostal way is the right way to Christ.

Sigh... Pls let him answer the questions, i promise I'm not trying to judge him. You don't know this cos u don't know my motive or what I'll respond with. I'm trying to locate what "help" /teaching will be most useful, what approach will be best. My questions are for this purpose ONLY! They will help me best respond to him most effectively!

This is tiring. I can only demonstrate what i mean if he does answer. Let him answer and when you see my response you'll know better what i mean

tctrills:

There are many reasons one would want to leave the pentecostal church. Allow him to make his choice. He is looking for God. Let God direct his journey. If you feel he is making a bad move, then teach him from the bible.
Teach him correct principles that you believe are missing in the Catholic Church. I don't think you have the right to question his status with God by asking if he is born again. Even Jesus or his apostles did not ask anyone if the are born again

No, he will make his choice na, lol. Nobody can enforce anything on anyone, i certainly am not trying to do so. Also I'm not "questioning his status with God". He may be born again. He may not be. I just want to know! Haba! Ppl and these sorta questions. It's like when u ask someone something and he says "you're questioning me?"! It will always be funny to me because it's just a question! I just want to know dasall! I can't judge no man, I'm not God. Pls let him respond, they're just harmless questions biko!

Sakir:
I am a Christian, and I am born into a Christian home(Pentecostal church) however i want to change to Catholic Church, I love Catholic Church though I don't really know much about them, please nairalanders kindly help me with some advice and please what are the things I need to know about Catholic Church.

May I ask why you want to switch from being Pentecostal to Catholic tho?

Cos I did the reverse. Born and raised Catholic (hence can tell you about them and why I left), but only if you reply my first. What's wrong with Pentecostal church that you wanna leave? Why the Catholic church, what do u love about them? Did u get born again while a Pentecostal?

Answer these three, and I promise I'll tell you why I left them for Pentecostal church. I'll tell you much about them

AntiChristian:


Woah! This thread made me love the Islamic paradise more! No be only to shout halleluyah yet believing Angels came to have sex on earth when sex isn't available in heaven! The God that created joysticks and spermatozoa for his sons in Genesis 6:1-4 to be able to impregnate humans can't give humans virgins in heaven!

Moreso in Numbers 31:40, God got a share of virgins from war booty!

O Allah! Grant me the best of Jannah and the best in this duniya! Aamin.

1) You listen to the JWs. U must understand that most Christians don't take the scriptures to mean angels came down to sleep with men. 1st, the scripture didn't say they "slept" with women, it said they MARRIED them, took them as wives. This implies LIVING amongst them continually as humans to do so, that's impossible for spirit beings who only make few minutes appearances, not LIVING with ppl! 2nd, spirit beings cannot impregnate physical beings! With "spiritual" sperm? There's so many more reasons why that passage wasn't referring to angels and the majority of Christians don't think it to be, but u listen to the JWs!

2) You misuse scripture again in Numbers 31:40! Not God, but HUMANS! When ppl go to war historically, don't they take the women as captives after killing the men? Does this mean it's God that asks them to do so? The passage only details what they do by themselves HISTORICALLY! With God's guidance they went to war. Now they happened to capture women. Doesn't mean God is "taking virgin women". Totally ridiculous

MaxInDHouse:


I know you're not relying on what you read in the Bible rather you're placing the dogmas of your sect over God's word.
So it will be very difficult for you to face the reality.

You know, this sounds very familiar. Maybe because this is exactly what JW do, relying on the governing body to tell them what to believe, not God's word itself. You can actually call out ppl for doing what you yourself admit to doing? Nice...

Dangerousboy:
that's what I just answered. I doubt you read through the whole write up. He doesn't hesitate, he can even fill you now if you want him to.

I was agreeing with you

Dtruthspeaker:


If He was Truly Changed, then he would be at Stage 2 (the waiting for all other things to be added)

And if other things are not added, clearly you are not in stage 2 and clearly you are not born again. That is The Law!

I'm struggling to understand this comment. He will "wait" again?? Even after he already has the Holy Spirit indwelling him by virtue of being born again? What's the hesitation by the Holy Spirit to fill up one whom he can already indwell because he's "truly born again"? Wait exactly for what?

Dtruthspeaker:


You avoided answering my question but you want me to answer yours. I understand. God is Praised!.

Here is my answer

Born again means conversion and therefore the born again must be different from his former pre-born again person, like a car that was a right hand drive being converted to left hand drive!

But if a car is a right hand drive and still looks the right hand drive it is no body in the world will reasonable say that that the car is born again and has become a left hand drive. So it is with a liar and whor.e chaser who claims he is born again and yet we still see him lying and awhoring.

It is not possible for any reasonable person to say that such a person has changed and that he is born again. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

So, like the right handed car that has not been converted, he was never born again.

Great. But so long as he was really born again and therefore has a measure of the Spirit by being born again, he will have absolutely no problems with being baptised with that same Holy Spirit right? No need to wait again for that same Holy Spirit to fill him since he's quite ok with in-dwelling him in the first place

Dtruthspeaker:


You avoided answering my question but you want me to answer yours. I understand. God is Praised!.

Here is my answer

Born again means conversion and therefore the born again must be different from his former pre-born again person, like a car that was a right hand drive being converted to left hand drive!

But if a car is a right hand drive and still looks the right hand drive it is no body in the world will reasonable say that that the car is born again and has become a left hand drive. So it is with a liar and whor.e chaser who claims he is born again and yet we still see him lying and awhoring.

It is not possible for any reasonable person to say that such a person has changed and that he is born again. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

So, like the right handed car that has not been converted, he was never born again.

Great. But so long as he was really born again and therefore has a measure of the Spirit by being born again, he will have absolutely no problems with being baptised with that same Holy Spirit right? No need to wait again for that same Holy Spirit to fill him since he's quite ok with in-dwelling him in the first place

Dtruthspeaker:


He did!

Ye always say
"seek Ye First (Number 1) the kingdom of God... AND (PLUS +) HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS (SINLESS)

THEN

Number 2) ALL OTHER THINGS SHALL BE ADDED UNTO YOU!"?

Now you discard the Christ's Growth Procedure!

Now pls respond to my question of just why a person who is born again and therefore already has a measure of the Spirit should have difficulty in getting that "extremely Holy Spirit" who already dwells in him to fill him up on another measure since he's quite ok to dwell in him in the first place. Thank you

Dtruthspeaker:


You are still not answering the question about "the wait in Jerusalem for The Holy Spirit" if any of them had gone fornicating, and saying the deepest purest Truth in your soul, (putting away all your wishes) do you reasonably believe such a one would still receive The Holy Spirit on that day?

I don't do these type of things because it amounts to you not receiving Jesus' words for what they are saying and are hell bent on emphasizing something Jesus never even considered in his own instructions. If "being sinless" was so important why did Jesus not mention it? You so much want to add "awhoring" into the simple instructions of Jesus. I won't help you do that

We like to major on the minor and minor on the major. We like to put emphasis on words not recorded while paying little attention to the word recorded. It's much like the JWs adding "other" in that Colossians 1:16 passage "all [other] things were created through him" while ignoring what that passage itself was saying, now concentrating on the added word "other". That's how you are also trying to add in "being Holy" into Jesus' instructions while ignoring that all he said was "wait in Jerusalem" = "don't go away from Jerusalem to another place", and after adding in "remain holy" are now trying to focus on those words you're adding in that weren't said by Jesus at all to make it about that! I certainly won't help you do that

But because I know you will run away from the questions I'd asked while using this as excuse, and won't see that your answer is already embedded in what I already said, i will help you see it so that you can pls, pls pls, answer my questions and not run away!

I said "now the Holy Spirit has already been given" he can get it 30 seconds after repenting...

Applying this to the hypothetical folk in Jerusalem (dunno why you can't see your answer is already there)

If he goes fornicating and repents what will now matter is if the Spirit has already been given when he's repented or not

If the Spirit is not yet given and none of the others have received, then of course he would still need to wait na! That's the whole point of their waiting! Wait till the Spirit is given! He repented didn't he? What does God now have against him having repented of that sin that he is remembering against him to withhold the Spirit from him, God that forgives and remembers the sin no more? He will CERTAINLY receive too!

If it was while he was fornicating that the Spirit was given, then he won't receive while he's still actively committing that sin. But if he comes out and realizes what has happened and then repents, again what is God holding against him afterwards, God that forgives without remembering again?! That's when he now becomes the case of the response i gave earlier! Now the Spirit has already been given like my earlier response! And as in that case in that earlier response he too well receive 30 seconds after repenting because God is not holding anything against him!

The waiting IS NEVER about any other thing else other than not going away from Jerusalem! that's all Jesus said! That was the only reason to wait! Let Jesus' words be sufficient for you

It is a simple thing by anyone to say "Lord forgive me of my sin" if you're concerned about that. Abi you have to wait for forgiveness again ni? Immediately you are ready to receive the Spirit for he is already given, no need to wait for anything anymore!

The moment he does as I said and repents of that sin he will also get it certainly much like any other person who receives it

Now pls respond to my question of just why a person who is born again and therefore already has a measure of the Spirit should have difficulty in getting that "extremely Holy Spirit" who already dwells in him to fill him up on another measure since he's quite ok to dwell in him in the first place. Thank you

Dtruthspeaker:


 So how can have or keep a thing if you never understand how to properly use it?

Or how can you use a thing if you do not figure out how it operates? Exactly like being given a Cessna or Submarine to use to go anywhere around the world.

Without due understanding you would never fly the Cessna out of the port nor move the submarine and the bottom line is "You would not go anywhere".

Hahahahaha

I was being sarcastic! SMH

I said that, and then went on to to show using that scripture EXACTLY HOW FAITH WORKS from the mouth of Jesus himself! That scripture is so self explanatory that i had nothing to add!

My bad i didn't know you don't understand sarcasm

immaculatesense:

Smile...I understand u perfectly well and I was once like dat...and u not understanding my Creation point is a misinterpretation of my intention...that doesn't mean I underate Christ or depict his image...no...
1) Jesus said it himself in Proverbs 8 that he was FORMED (though he was living in God but his activeness has a beginning...just like man and his word but wen a man his born...he comes out and den he make sound(word)...but the fact is there was a man before his word though equality is there but we all agree that there cannot be a word without it source(man) ...so also there cannot be a son without a parent...there cannot be Son(Christ/Word) without the Father(yhwh).

2)Jesus himself said in John 14 that the Father is greater than the son...
Please can u explain what Jesus meant in the two passages

Matthew 24:36
[36]“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or THE SON HIMSELF. ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS.

And
Matthew 20:23
[23]Jesus told them, “You will indeed drink from my bitter cup. But I HAVE NO RIGHT to say who will sit on my right or my left. My Father has prepared those places for the ones he has chosen.”

1) Again proverbs 8 IS NOT Jesus, but I'll show this better then

2) One more time, yes Jesus was less than the Father ON EARTH as the first passage you referenced! Anything other that is now authority (no more greatness over) but again you keep counting the authority one has over another (like a man with his wife) as the fact that he's greater. I have said that this isn't the same thing

It seems you're trying to make me answer this issue right now and are impatient with these continued responses. I have said it over and over again in this forum that that thread is coming! Don't worry I'll be MUCH more detailed there! That's the reason we're having this discussion over and over. I'll be perfectly detailed there, pls wait for it!

Again, it's not that I cannot respond more convincingly than this. I know these scriptures. I can address them even much better. pls wait

Dtruthspeaker:


You are Avoiding the question

If any of them had gone to cool off with one babe while waiting in Jerusalem, will they receive The Holy Spirit?

Let me respond to it this way, applying it to this day and age.

Now the Spirit has already been given. If a believer falls into fornication and comes out, 30 seconds after asking God to forgive him of this sin then prays to receive the Holy Spirit he will SURELY RECEIVE if he's got faith that God forgave him and he'll receive !

See this has been said before. EVERY BELIEVER ALREADY HAS THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN HIM. I mean, EVERYONE! No matter who he is!

NKJV Ro 8:9: "⁹ But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."

To be a Christian it is only possible because he has the Holy Spirit in the first place!

Maybe you can help by explaining why that same "extremely Holy Spirit" that felt it ok to dwell in this person in the first place when he got saved cannot do so again in this second one? Is it not the one same Holy Spirit? Why? What's wrong all of a sudden? Help me get this pls! (Let me see this in your response)

On the other hand, we can only receive answers to prayers because of Jesus Christ ALONE, not our own righteousness or Holy living. Jesus ALONE qualifies us to get God's blessings not anything we do. if we ever get to feel we should receive from God because of our holy living, we MOST CERTAINLY won't receive from God.

I read of a woman who was complaining to her pastor that she always lives a holy life yet doesn't receive from God the same way another church member does who can't be bothered to be dedicated as she. Well that other one usually repents when she sinned the many times she always use to sin, but this one who didn't sin as much always felt she DESERVED the blessings from God because of her holy living!

See, absolutely NOBODY deserves ANYTHING from God no matter how they live! Only one thing qualifies them to receive from God: JESUS!

That's what "in Jesus' name" means!

When you go to somebody in my name it means you're going in my authority. He giving you something in my name means him giving it to you as though you were me, and NOT you! He is responding to you as if you were me! And you will get what RIGHTFULLY BELONGS TO ME because you're coming in my name, not what you deserve!

When we pray "in Jesus' name", we are approaching the Father as though we are Jesus. We are going in Jesus' authority. God is seeing Jesus NOT us when we approach him in Jesus' name. And we will get what legally belongs to Jesus because of that, NOT WHAT WE DESERVE!

If you've sinned all you need do is repent in that place of prayer. Go in Jesus name, and you will receive what belongs to Jesus. You will get it in Jesus name!

Dtruthspeaker:


At least you admit the use of feelings even if it is not to be solely relied upon to which I said nothing to that effect.



Respectfully, you guys have not yet figured out what faith truly is, and therefore you suffer through the hardship of maintaining what you all think that faith is. until you get weak.

Well I don't ever want to figure out what faith is. All I need to do is follow the prescription of Jesus when I pray:

NKJV Mr 11:22,24: "²² So Jesus answered and said to them, “Have faith in God. … ²⁴ Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them."

Jesus himself defines having faith in God by the application in prayer as whenever I pray I am to believe I HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED AT THAT VERY MOMENT (the moment I pray!). That is when I get to have them!

I don't need to be a genius. I just have to believe Jesus. You don't, but that's fine too. All i say is what he said, simple. You don't believe his word is enough and doesn't work that way and you're right. I believe it is enough and works that way and I'm also right. According to our faith it will be done unto us! (Mat 9:29)

immaculatesense:

Dear Mikee19
I mistakenly close tab and I av written alot down on ur mention but it's all gone...I can restart I av gone far and I can't be rewriting and it hurts...

Oops, sorry. That usually feels terrible

immaculatesense:
but u still av alot to learn on how to relate scriptures especially the old testament to the new and how to find Christ in the Old testament...

immaculatesense:
But the bottom line is Jesus is the Wisdom of God according to 1 Corinthians 1:24

I'll show why this isn't so

immaculatesense:
Christ was God...he let go of that privilege to save mankind (word became flesh) since u can't separate man from his word...the word of man is the man and enjoy every privilege with the man...so,Christ enjoy that privilege in God of being equated to God...but he had to let go instead of clinging to it. Now that the salvation mission is halfway done...he is sitting (waiting) at the right hand of God(is he still not equal with God as of now since the mission is still ongoing) Matthew 22:44
[44]‘The lord said to my Lord,
Sit in the place of honor at my right hand
    until I humble your enemies beneath your feet.’

When the salvation mission his over and the Judgement has bn passed on mankind (those who refused the salvation of God) that is when 1 Corinthians 15:28 will be fulfilled and Christ will return to being in his initial position of being equal with God.
That was why Jesus told his disciples that one that great day...they will ask no questions because they will know that he is in the Father.

Actually sef we don't have much disagreement points, and much of that new thread wouldn't be for you. From what i can see it's just 1)creation of Jesus (really unscriptural) and 2) Authority over doesn't equal being greater than. All else is in order. But I'll quote you anyways. God bless you too

immaculatesense although I'm trying very hard to not derail this thread since I'll still create that thread, I'll just point out two errors here:

Let's say there are two persons, one holding a gold wristwatch and another just looking at the same gold wristwatch. Both do not consider that wristwatch "something to be grasped" despite the fact that one is already holding on to it and the second is just looking at it in his front. Here's what this means for both parties:

The first person who doesn't consider the wristwatch "something to be grasped", but who somehow was already holding on to it at first (without thinking), can easily let go of it. It's not that important to him. He can just let it go as despite holding it in the first place he doesn't consider it "something to be grasped"

The second person who is just staring at it without yet holding it may never decide to hold it at all since he doesn't consider it "something to be grasped"! In fact he may even mistakenly touch it without knowing. But once he realizes he's touching it, what he doesn't consider "something to be grasped", he can again readily let go of it.

What am I driving at?

You're using that scripture to show Jesus was never equal to God. It DOES NOT say so at all!

All it says is just that he didn't consider equality with God "something to be grasped"!

Now he may or may not have been equal with God before this, but the scripture is silent on it as it isn't its point. The point is simply what Jesus thought about equality with God, not whether he was equal with God or not. He didn't think it was something important enough "to be grasped"!

Now if he was already equal with God at this time, him not considering equality with God as "something to be grasped" simply would mean that it meant nothing to him, and he could readily let it go! Again, "considering" means "thinking", and that scripture began by admonishing that you have the same "mind" or mindset that Jesus had! It's all about mindset, what Jesus mindset about equality with God was, not whether he was at the time equal with God or not! His mindset was that "this isn't something important enough to be grasped". If he was equal with God and then had this mindset, it just means he can let it go without thinking about it!

On the contrary if he was not equal with God, it'll mean that he wouldn't want to by force BECOME equal with God.

One more time, this scripture is only talking about Christ's mindset, not whether he was equal with God or not! Which is why it is translated differently depending on the bias of the translator:

Phi 2:6 NWT who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

Phil 2:6 CEV Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

So you see it proves nothing, but merely confirms the bias a person already has.

Secondly, I think you may be conflating authority over a person with greatness
over them. A man has authority over his wife and she is to submit to him. A man, however, IS NOT greater than his wife! They are equal before God as BEINGS! This is also the relationship the Bible uses in describing God the Father and Christ. Christ submits to the Father's authority, but it's co-equal with him as BEINGS

Lastly, Jesus wasn't mentioned in that proverbs 8 passage. You know that passage refers to "wisdom", even using a female noun form "she calls out" (read the entire thing). Plus the book itself is called "proverbs" = "figure of speech"! But i will show much more thoroughly in my thread at the time that CANNOT represent Jesus!

immaculatesense:

Dear Mikee19
What I told u about the Trinity is the truth about the Trinity...it is real but it had not been taught the way it should...every point I ever make on any topic are Yeah and Amen cos I don't think...I let the Bible still...

It is the truth as far as you know, and you don't know it all. Be humble in what you know. You have only seen arguments from jw doctrine and from others who cannot properly teach what God's word says about it. But like I said i have a thread coming soon..

I will show why some scriptures you've used are improperly used. Then you will see it is really you saying this, not those scriptures. I'll do so in that thread

Dtruthspeaker:


3 or 4 years back he even moved from being slightly pro-God to full blown Anti-God and supported all the works of atheists, with many asking him are you an atheist or something.

Then when he saw God overcoming their arguments he then transformed to the rubbish we see today.

He is definitely still suffering from the mental imbalance he once confessed that he was afflicted with.

That is the story of kobojunkie over the period of time I have seen.

It's a sad story. See how readily i took apart his beliefs and showed it up for the nonsense (stuff that doesn't make sense) that it is. Asking questions he dare cannot answer. But tomorrow will still persist in this foolishness.

I usually do not speak in this way. But I've not seen stuff like this all my life. Quite sad

Dtruthspeaker:


Like the Day of Pentecost, there is an external change when The Holy Spirit Comes.

I was talking about FEELING something to determine if you have answers to prayers! This is alien to scripture. You DO NOT place emphasis on FEELINGS AT ALL!

One more time, we walk by faith not by feelings or sight!

When you pray for healing, you believe you are healed THE MOMENT YOUR PRAY regardless of whether there is an external manifestation of healing or not. That's the way to receive your healing. Now of course, that faith will eventually produce an external manifestation, which can be immediate or which can be after some time, it'll certainly do so eventually. But that's not what you look for to determine if you've received healing from God! What you look to is, again FAITH!

It is the same with receiving the Spirit. You must NEVER judge with feelings or anything else. Now of course, that faith will ultimately produce some external manifestation for sure, as long as you remain in it, but again, what you look to to determine if you've received is, one more time, FAITH!

We walk by faith not by experiences!

Yes, faith WILL produce experiences, but they aren't what we look to...

Tongues of fire came upon the disciples in Jerusalem, but nowhere else. One person's experiences will vary from another. But one thing remains through it all: FAITH!

WE WALK BY FAITH NOT BY SIGHT!

Dtruthspeaker:


Oh Sweet! Someone Sees! All the things and more I wish to say but could not. Eg what if He goes awhoring whilst in Jerusalem, shall he receive it?

No!

No sir, you are adding to that scripture. First off no Christian goes "awhoring".

Second, Jesus command is as simple as it gets. Wait in Jerusalem is wait in Jerusalem; why must we feel the need to add to Jesus' own words, as tho they're not sufficient by themselves?!

Wait in Jerusalem, simple! No more, no less! Jesus' word is Jesus' word! That's all!

Dangerousboy:


Mind you, when a man gets born again, he receives the Person of the Holy Spirit or the indwelling presence in his spirit. (Roms 8:9,11,16)

When a man is filled with the Holy Spirit, he receives the power of the Holy Spirit for service. Acts 1:8

Now this empowerment or infilling is a continuous thing. You can and should get filled continuously till you get to overflowing. Then the Holy Spirit will flow through you to others. This is your responsibility. Acts 4:8,31. Eph 5:18-20

Hallelujah.

Amen! You already have the Holy Spirit within you anyways when you get saved, so why would he hesitate to fill you in the baptism of the Spirit too?

immaculatesense:

Are u taking about me not believing in the divinity of Jesus?...
Are u kidding me...I believe 100%
The only thing that i kept saying is what Christ says which is that "the Father is greater than the Son"...so I believe that there is Hierarchy in the Godhead which is that the Father is the One True God and the greatest of all.
I have explained dis times and times again. That's why some people sometimes thing I am JW but no...I am Pentecostal but I don't support the Trinity misinterpretation...u know am not subjective no matter the topic
Like I said Trinity was trimmed from Tri+unity=Trinity
Tri= three
Unity=Unity in purpose or aim

So,the Father and the Son and the Spirit (three) are United in Purpose.
But that doesn't take the fact that the Father is greater than the Son and controls the spirit...
Now read these two verses
John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.

John 14:26
[26]But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

You can see that it is the Father giving direction and authority. And when the mission is fulfilled...the son will hand everything over to the Father and return to live IN the Father as the word(his initial position and glory)

1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

You can read clearly that the son will put himself UNDER the authority of the Father.

The only thing I against the JW for claiming that Jesus is Angel Michael and I av prove the fault of that teaching over and over again.

This is the True Teaching and Worthy Saying
Thank u

1) I had seen you say Jesus was created before. This is a misunderstanding of scripture

2) Of course the Father was greater than Jesus when he was a man! That's a given! You can see why that can be true

3) You said Jesus will return to live IN God. But when he does, who is greater than who, when God is only ONE BEING since Jesus now lives in him AS A SINGLE BEING?! It's like saying I'm greater than my blood inside me. This make no sense at all whatsoever anymore for one who's living INSIDE God as a single being with him

4) That version obscures 1 Cor 15 that you quoted saying Jesus will "put himself under God's authority" as tho he's not one God with the Father

if you just make these adjustments, you'll see where you've been lacking

Op, I'll now answer directly to your question:

How long does it take for you to receive ANY gift from someone who's already given the gift?

My answer is:

"As long a time as you want!"

If i handed you a bottle of Coke and said, "here, come and take this. How long will it take you receive it? Certainly you can have it anytime you want! You can have it immediately! You can wait. it's all up to you and NOT God anymore, because as far as he's concerned he's already given you the gift of his Spirit!

You see, it is true the disciples had to wait for the gift the Holy Spirit BECAUSE HE WAS NOT YET GIVEN:

NKJV Joh 7:37-39: "³⁷ On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. ³⁸ He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” ³⁹ But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."

You see, Jesus had to be glorified FIRST or else God couldn't give the gift the the Spirit!

NKJV Ac 2:33: "³³ Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear."

Quite understandably then, no way could the apostles have received something (actually, SOMEONE) that was yet to be given unto them! They had to wait until the Spirit was poured out first!. And so Jesus told them:

NKJV Lu 24:49: "⁴⁹ Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”"

Jesus told them to wait for him to send the Holy Spirit . That's the only reason they had to wait! But, see this: HE ALSO TOLD THEM WHERE TO WAIT TOO!

NKJV Lu 24:49: "⁴⁹ … but tarry in the city of Jerusalem …"

Now let's assume some believer there heard this, and then went on to wait in the City of Galilee. Would he receive the gift of the Holy Spirit on that day he was poured out upon them? NO!

What if he waited in Nazareth instead? NO!

He had to wait in ONE PLACE and ONE PLACE ONLY to receive the Spirit.

He had to wait in JERUSALEM only!

Again:

NKJV Lu 24:49: "⁴⁹ … but tarry in the city of Jerusalem …"

So you now see why people who think that "waiting" is essential to receiving the Spirit are missing the point. It was NOT about waiting, because people waiting anywhere other than Nazareth wouldn't have received him, even if they were fervent, with much desire, fasting and praying, begging God with tears for the Spirit! Again, WAITING IS NOT WHAT GOT THEM THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT! What did the trick was waiting IN JERUSALEM, the exact place Jesus was to first pour the Spirit out! Anybody telling you to wait today isn't being scriptural if he isn't telling you to wait IN JERUSALEM! Because anybody waiting elsewhere at that time was really wasting his time! It had to be in Jerusalem or nowhere else!

There was a definite day in God's plan that the Spirit was to be poured out, and a definite place too. They had to wait for THAT time, in THAT place! This, and ONLY THIS, is why they waited! It isn't scriptural to wait for any other purpose, and in any other place!

Ok so now the Spirit has been poured out. Now what?

This is why from them on, it isn't God GIVING the Holy Spirit anymore. You won't find scripture asking believers to ask God to pour out his Spirit upon them again. He already did that on the day of Pentecost. No use waiting, asking him to pour him out again! From now on, all that's left is for the believer to RECEIVE what God has ALREADY GIVEN!

NKJV Ac 2:38: "³⁸ Then Peter said to them... " ...you shall RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit."

NKJV Ac 8:15: "¹⁵ who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might RECEIVE the Holy Spirit."

NKJV Ac 19:2: "² he said to them, “Did you RECEIVE the Holy Spirit when you believed?” ”"

Again, how long does it take to receive a gift already given? It depends on when you are ready to receive it. You can receive it RIGHT NOW!

It is unscriptural to have to wait to receive the Holy Spirit. Anybody waiting outside Jerusalem would really be wasting his time! Besides they were waiting for the day he was to be given. But he's already been given so you can get the gift RIGHT NOW! Absolutely NOBODY in scripture had to wait again AFTER HE WAS GIVEN. That is unscriptural!

One more thing I must mention is that you're probably waiting to feel something, for some external "force" to come take over you before you believe you've received from God. You're really not using faith then, but walking by sight and feelings. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God! God's word is true regardless of what you feel! You MUST walk by faith and not by sight!

NKJV Mr 11:24: "²⁴ Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, BELIEVE THAT YOU RECEIVE THEM, and you will have them."

According to God's word, the very moment you pray, believe you've received the Spirit because God's word says so. Not feelings. Not sight. Receive RIGHT NOW by faith!

Your can send me a mail for further instructions.
God bless you.

On the other hand immaculatesense, I'm quite surprised at your understanding of matters such as these (receiving the Holy Spirit) for one who doesn't quite see the divinity of Jesus. Well i guess that's due to it not being taught very properly, as well as mis-teachings of the Jws... Good stuff you've put here

immaculatesense:

Dear Mikee19
I guess @kobojunkie only believes in the four gospels (Matthew,Mark,Luke and John)... precisely only wat Jesus says wen he was on earth... anything else doesn't matter to him...

Just keep that in mind when u av a conversation with him

Oooh is kobojunkie male or female? Have I been addressing wrongly? Anyways I'll now show the foolishness of this. This exactly is what I was trying to show to everyone...

He/she is quite right to believe the gospels. But foolish to not believe them completely, for the very words of Jesus himself plainly declared that he COULD NOT finish teaching the disciples all he had to teach them, not because he Jesus Christ did not have the ability to do so in himself, but because they DID NOT have the capacity to receive it all since they couldn't understand it. I mean the same Jesus COULD NOT perform miracles where ppl didn't receive him! Did that make him any less powerful? Why would the fact that the disciples could not understand the "much more" he had to tell them make him less so, so that he had to teach or forfeit all else he had to teach them?

This was the question he couldn't answer to, even tho it is self-evident from the very words of Jesus himself! He simply doesn't believe Jesus at all, or else he'll have believe what Jesus said "I have be so much more to tell you that I cannot tell you now because you won't understand them. But i will tell you through the Holy Spirit". I mean how much clearer can that get! Anyone who really believes Jesus will look for that "much more" that Jesus said he would tell them later by his Spirit in the words of the apostles. Very foolish not to believe Jesus himself. This is why he had problems with answering a very simple question...

On the other hand he also recognizes that this must be what is meant by the words of Jesus, for he goes on to acknowledge that THERE WERE INDEED FURTHER REVELATIONS GIVEN which he acknowledged are contained in the book of Revelations. This is really a contradiction tho. If Jesus did finish all of he had to say on earth, then there's no way he could come back again to tell them something further in the book of Revelations! It's either he finished or he didn't. He recognizes that he had to come back to tell them further things, but decides to "cherry pick" that it must only be one book and nothing else, having no other yardstick to judge this but "this is the book I feel doesn't contradict the gospels, but i certainly feel that the epistles contradict", because Revelations is as much a letter by the apostle John as Galatians is by Paul. He only chooses to believe John when he details that Jesus sent his Angel to show him those things and he didn't dream them himself (because let's face, can he not have? What's the yardstick to determine he wasn't lying, but Paul was? Nothing really, except "I feel so, so it must be true!)

NKJV Rev 22:6,8-10: "⁶ Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. … ⁸ Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. ⁹ Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” ¹⁰ And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand."

Paul said something similar, yet with no reason at all (except "i feel so, so this MUST be true!", he feels he's lying


NKJV Ga 1:11-12,16-17; 2:6: "¹¹ But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. ¹² For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. … ¹⁶ to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, ¹⁷ nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. … But from those who seemed to be something— whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man— for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me."

So believe John but disbelieve Paul. John tells the truth but Paul lies. Quite foolish really. No logic to it...

On the one hand he declares that nobody can add to what Jesus said on earth, but then goes on to acknowledge that Jesus himself did so in the book of Revelations, only to deny it wasn't him who did so in the other epistles. Indeed he's right in saying nobody can add a thing to that Jesus himself teaches. He did so on earth, plainly told them he wasn't done, then continued to do so through his Spirit! This is why he cannot answer the question "was Jesus done" when Jesus very plainly said "I still have MANY THINGS to tell you..." = I am not done yet!

Indeed the reason Jesus could not teach them all he would have wanted to teach them was because these were men yet unsaved, without the Spirit who could have opened up their capacity to receive spiritual truths. It was not a limitation of Jesus, but of the disciples. Yet this is where he chooses to camp, in the realm of the unsaved without the Spirit hence without capacity to receive much spiritual truth, rather than come over to the epistles where they were now saved and with the Spirit and can now receive much more, hence taught much more, the "much more" Jesus had to teach them that they didn't have capacity to receive at the time due to their limitation (not Jesus')!

Foolishness is when you don't realize that Jesus is powerful; he can use MANY MEANS to teach, not only in person! He said he'll use his Spirit to continue. Why not take him for his words? Or rather why pick and choose where you'll believe he can use his Spirit to teach is only Revelations, but not powerful enough to do so enough to use whatever means he so desired to teach them in giving revelation by his Spirit but must do so in person... Delusion grandeur at it's peak!

You will NOT want to have anything remotely logical to do with a person as this. Avoid for your sanity

Kobojunkie:
Again, In John 16, the same Jesus Christ told you that the Helper whom He sends to you will take from that which is Him, Jesus Christ, God's Truth, to give to you. Meaning the Helper will in no way put forward ideas/teachings or rulings that directly or indirectly contradict/violate God's Truth, Jesus Christ, in all that He gives to you. Why? Because God's Word(Truth), and Law, is eternal, unchanging. Heaven and Earth will pass away but not a not jot of God's Word, Jesus Christ, will ever pass away or change in any way or form - Matthew 5 vs 15 - 17. The same Jesus Christ told you this Truth too.

Allow what Jesus Christ taught sink in before you more forward to trying to create excuses for that which contradicts that which is the Truth of God, Jesus Christ.

A good example of teachings or revelations which don't conflict or contradict the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ is found in the book of Revelations. Near nothing of what God detailed in there comes in direct conflict of any of that which is the Gospel. Look and compare those entries to what Jesus Christ taught and you can see how much of what is written is new revelation but at the same time does not make a liar of Jesus Christ.

---

Whatever you term His "unfinished" work must never be in conflict with that which He finished by His death on the cross for it is to be of Jesus Chris. This here is very simple. If it does not align with that which Jesus Christ already established, it means it is not of Jesus Christ. Come one, this isn't rocket science. The same basic ideas applied where God's Old Covenant and the prophets are concerned. The very same applies even with Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God. No man can add, remove or change any of that which has already been decreed by Jesus Christ. Why that remains hard to understand is beyond me.

Maybe I wasnt clear enough. For avoidance of doubt, YES, I DO AGREE, THEY ARENT TO CONTRADICT

Now answer my question in very clear terms too, to leave no room for doubt...

Jesus Christ: I have many more things to tell u, but u are not yet able to understand them right now... In the very words of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, what he had left to finish to teach them was

A) finished
B) unfinished

Did Jesus finish teaching everything he had to teach while in his earthly ministry? A simple yes or no will suffice!

Kobojunkie:
Again, In John 16, the same Jesus Christ told you that the Helper whom He sends to you will take from that which is Him, Jesus Christ, God's Truth, to give to you. Meaning the Helper will in no way put forward ideas/teachings or rulings that directly or indirectly contradict/violate God's Truth, Jesus Christ, in all that He gives to you. Why? Because God's Word(Truth), and Law, is eternal, unchanging. Heaven and Earth will pass away but not a not jot of God's Word, Jesus Christ, will ever pass away or change in any way or form - Matthew 5 vs 15 - 17. The same Jesus Christ told you this Truth too.

Allow what Jesus Christ taught sink in before you more forward to trying to create excuses for that which contradicts that which is the Truth of God, Jesus Christ.

A good example of teachings or revelations which don't conflict or contradict the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ is found in the book of Revelations. Near nothing of what God detailed in there comes in direct conflict of any of that which is the Gospel. Look and compare those entries to what Jesus Christ taught and you can see how much of what is written is new revelation but at the same time does not make a liar of Jesus Christ.

Point duly noted. Thank u. Now answer this rather simple question once for all lets prove u arent delusional. (But she wont because she is...)

Everyone pls watch while I demonstrate:

Jesus Christ: I have many more things to tell u, but u are not yet able to understand them right now... In the very words of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, what he had left to finish to teach them was

A) finished
B) unfinished

This is a very simple question. These are the very words of Jesus. Can u pls provide the very simple glaring answer to these words of Jesus today? Come on let's prove to the whole world that u aint deluded. Very simple proof right here and now

Kobojunkie:
In John 16, the same Jesus Christ told you that the Helper whom He sends to you will take from that which is Him, Jesus Christ, God's Truth, to give to you. Meaning the Helper will in no way contradict nor violate God's Truth in whatever it is that He gives to you. Why? Because God's Word, and Law, is eternal, unchanging. Heaven and Earth will pass away but not a not of God's Word, Jesus Christ, will ever pass away or change in any way or form - Matthew 5 vs 15 - 17. The same Jesus Christ told you this Truth too.

yes I agree with that. The Holy Spirit, while doing that, has 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ministeries, each of which again, is DISTINCT FROM THE OTHER! These are: 1) reminding them of what Jesus taught them on earth and 2) teaching them all things from Jesus he is meant to teach them!

Notice again that these two are DISTINCT MINISTERIES, meaning that the second job of teaching them all things DOES NOT INCLUDE REMINDING THEM OF WHAT THINGS JESUS ALREADY SAID! This of necessity means this is teaching APART FROM THE THINGS JESUS ALREADY TAUGHT THEM ON EARTH! You would think this would be glaring enough, even to the blind! In fact, to butress this point, Jesus said the Spirit will show them things TO COME! This, by very definition, means BRAND NEW THINGS which are yet to occur! Not things already past. BRAND NEW, FUTURISTIC THINGS!

Anyways back to my question. I put it to everyone that because she is deluded she will digress, sidestep, run up, run down, do EVERTHING ELSE except answer this exceedingly and glaringingly simple question. But I will love to be proven wrong by her (tho it's just wishful thinking...)

Here again is that simple nusery 1 question for you:

Everyone pls watch while I demonstrate:

Jesus Christ: I have many more things to tell u, but u are not yet able to understand them right now... In the very words of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, what he had left to finish to teach them was

A) finished
B) unfinished

This is a very simple question. These are the very words of Jesus. Can u pls provide the very simple glaring answer to these words of Jesus today? Come on let's prove to the whole world that u aint deluded. Very simple proof right here and now