It has been proven that long long ago...dinosaurs evolved and started laying eggs

Copper still available...

contact me at mkmyers45@gmail.com

ijebabe: Happy Birthday!

PS: How do geeks celebrate birthdays?

Cant say if i can be considered to be a geek though....more of a techie will do

ayox2003: Happy Birthday! Shine on!


Frawzey

MY BRO...MY BRO

'hmmmmm' is all i have to say for now

ride on broda

I personally thank everyone for the well wishes....una well done

Infact 'small token' for everybody expect mukina2

mukina2: Happy birthday my long time Pally for viewing centre!

Haha...Mukinovic i miss una o

any i wont miss arsonol vs my beloved chelsea again

Roll on 2013/2014 Season

ijebabe: Happy Birthday!

PS: How do geeks celebrate birthdays?

ijebabe: ^No he's rich

You got that right...we blow we money

I was listening to a lady speak somewhere and she was of a strong opinion that anything else apart from 'the natural position'. Oral, BDSM, A.nal etc etc are all classified by her as sins. Abeg my nairaland people na true?

loco4love: homo/bisexuality is a serious issue now. I see it has satan's strategy to destroy mankind and turn the whole planet into some kind of sodom and gemorrah society. Look at Lagos\ EKO Ile its a mess, there is so much male to male sexual harrasment even the rape of males its shocking. No one wants to talk about the fact that boys, teenage males and young men are being sexually molested and raped in Lagos. In Lagos males are supposed to take rape and sexual harassment and molestation but females have RIGHTS and they dont have to take. Homosexual and bisexual men are raping and molesting males in Lagos. We have to stop this evil before it is too late.Straight Males stand up for your RIGHTS.

Blah Blah Blah..nigga what about adultery, pre-marital, oral, a.nal etc etc are they not sins too?

olire: I strongly believe gays are demons from the pit of hell sent to mislead us.

and the girls we furnicate with?

orgasticdance:
From this it's obvious that God must have been a homosexual to have had no idea that the man he created would abandon his woman one day...

Pwahahaha

Deep Sight:

Lolz, enjoy yur jokes. Cant take you seriously on this one.

Awww..ive failed then? Thought we were serious

Uyi Iredia:
Nothing more than neurological activities in one's brain. I no longer believe in immaterial souls in humans. Ironically, I do, like Max Planck, think that there is an intelligence (material or not) that is the matrix of reality.

Then such activities can be properly described and replicated no?

Thank you. It must be described by humans and not initiated by machines (which is what sentience requires). It simulates (not appreciate or innovate upon) an intellectual aspect.

All inventions, ideas and abstract must be first described, Its a simulation, yes but then we judge intellectual aspects in non-humans? how do we judge an animal or robot to be intelligence? Do you consider a simulation to be different from reality?

Is it just me, or do the to bolded conflict ? Like saying not all processors can be explained by physics and processors are nothing above physics. Instantiate, yes but initiate, that's what I'm looking for.

I intentionally included the first bolded to account for certain properly that are quite difficult to account for like explaining colour to a blind person

Deep Sight:

Seems to me that you are making the conversation into a joke or being sarcastic or something.

Anony, you best be advised to laugh and walk away, else tomorrow he may make further jokes about how his sarcasm was lost on you.

No Sir, im not..if you view the mind as anything more than neurological activities then the whole convo will heavily contrast with yours...just like ancient aliens vs non-ancient alien proponets

Mr anony:
are you saying that robots actually have opinions of themselves?

i know siri does....lol

Mr anony:
Exactly. Who is the "you" accessing what it wants when it wants? That's what a it means to have a mind and that's what the machine cannot have.

How do you even define a 'mind'?

A good example of understanding is how we tell the difference between pornography and nude classical art. A computer can't tell the difference because the data is very similar.
Another example is our understanding of the topic called Love. We know when we love someone and we also know when we are pretending to love someone. A machine cannot genuinely care for someone not to talk of pretending to care. It can only perform actions it is programmed to perform.

Every aspect of learning or
any other feature of intelligence can be so precisely described that a machine can be made to simulate it.

Yeah but the robot cannot choose to play badly. A human can. The robot is only making calculations and acting according to those calculations. A human being can make those calculations and yet choose to lose the game on purpose simply because he likes his opponent.

Not all mental properties are sufficiently
captured by abstract causal
organization but computations
can capture other systems’
abstract causal organization.
Mental properties are
nothing over and above abstract causal organization.
Therefore, computers
running the right kind of
computations will instantiate
mental properties.

Deep Sight:

I thus take it that it is your position that such robots experience self consciousness.

In the sense that they know why there are there, they can look into the mirror knowing what they see and they know the consequences of thier actions...yes we can judge them to be aware based on these

Deep Sight:

Do you seriously think a robot is conscious of its processes, or takes any conscious part in those processes? Surely you do understand that the robot is merely regurgitating a set of instructions placed there by its maker, the scientist?

Come on. Be serious.

And aren't humans also subject to set algorithm of the maker? How is the human conscious which is as a result of an emulation of that of the creator any diffrent from neural correlates of consciousness that can be exhibited by machines as a result of recreation of brain activity.

Mr anony:
That's the point I'm making, a mind is not the kind of thing that has an OS neither is it like an OS. An OS does not work without someone to input values into it. A mind on the other hand is like that someone who inputs values into the brain. The evidence lies in the fact that you have the ability to choose what to think about, direct your thoughts where you want them to go and act on the thoughts you want while discarding the thoughts you don't want. An OS cannot do this. It can only make a computer "think" it can't choose the thoughts neither can it choose the outcome of the thoughts.

You make thd mistake of thinking all OS's need input of anysort..Supercomputers that produce weather data run thier program largely independent of input. Everything in your mind runs at once you just access what you want when you want...Your mind continually reels information at all times.

We both know that passing off as understanding is not the same as understanding. For instance the man in the Chinese room appears to understand Chinese but he really does not. All he is doing is following a rule book to give a particular output of symbols when he receives a particular input of symbols.

Give me a topic and analyse what understanding of the topic entails

Your ability to think about your thoughts and choose whether or not to think them.

And how does this defer from a robot playing a game of poker against another player.Now when handling, the robot has to decided what the opponent's hand is...There's a level of certainty so if he has a flush he has think and decide whether to deal or hold the hand as he come up a full house..Remember that my contentions is not that we have perfect robots atm but that its plausible too in the most human sense of it.

I know this for sure because of how physical matter behaves. Physical matter has never shown the ability to choose an outcome in how it behaves.

Wave-Particle Duality?

Mr anony:
Erhm, I wouldn't quite agree with your analogy that the human brain is a computer and the mind is the software that runs it. The mind is much more than that. I'd rather look at the brain as a computer and the mind is the person that controls it.

Then whats the OS of the mind? Remember that a person is just needed for input but programs practically run on thier own..

In short form: the ability to learn a subject and have personal opinions about it

And what stops a machine with this ability to pass off as understanding? Remember that in several fields of endeavour we have computers with such ability but limited to a certain scope...

I see where you are going but then I wouldn't still call it a type of mind until it can actual make free choices on it's own

Give me a classic example of what you considered to be actual free choice.

Yes I believe a mind can be recreated but not by physical/material means

You don't know this for sure...since we are on the way to fully figuring out the mind just as we have the brain.

Mr anony:
Ah, I see. By random I meant that humans can easily spit out a series of random and totally unrelated symbols. A machine on the other hand is not capable of doing this because it must work according to a set of mathematical/logical algorithms and the only reason why it may appear that a machine is doing something random is because we (the observers) do not know the precise set of instructions which it is working by. If we had access to these mathematical instructions,, we would know precisely what numbers/symbols the machine will produce. So we as humans can and do in fact do random things, machines cannot.

Even the randomness of human actions is down to compulational logic as i consider thinking to be a computational process, the brain being a computer and the mind the program it runs . Proper study of the Choas and Uncertainty proves that events are not random in the sense you mean.

I think that is the million dollar question here. Can a machine understand? My answer is: No a machine cannot understand. It may be able to mimic understanding to a high degree but it definitely CANNOT understand in the true sense of the word.
I'm interested in talking about this in more depth if you are willing for us to press it further.

What do you consider to be understanding?

Hmm, it depends on what you mean by modeled. I would say a robot/computer is modeled in the image of man but this wouldn't mean that a robot has the same kind of mind (if it can be called that) that a man has.

Is the mind of God and man the same? If no, then a human creation of the 'mind' certainly goes down as a mind but just a diffrent type no?

I don't quite get this question.
I would say the human mind is not just there neither is it simulated. It is definitely created.

Hence it can be recreated...

Mr anony:
I don't think it is possible for a machine to ever develop a will, it is not even possible for a machine to act in a way that is truly random.

You can get a machine to mimic a mind/free-will but it is absolutely impossible for it to actually have one because of the way machines are built, a machine CAN NEVER develop a mind.

I'll talk on this further if you want.

For starters, you can check out John Searle's Chinese Room argument and then maybe we can discuss further on minds and machines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

This should be a really interesting conversation if you are game.

I meant 'random' in the sense of human activity..we hardly do anything random now do we? I have gone through John's arguement but he fails to distinguish the fact that a machine can actually hear and process given instructions in a particular language from what he calls understanding, Can a machine understand or not? He does raise a valid point of the validity of computational models standing in as the real thing but then isn't the consciousness of humans modelled in the image of God? what is the limiting factor to humans will from that of God? Is the human mind created, just there or simulated?

Mr anony:
Yes this is possible in the same way that your computer can be programmed to learn your preferences but this is very different from a machine being conscious that of what it is doing and willing itself to act.

The presence of a will as well as a subjective mental reality is one of the things that distinguishes mind from machine

I am not talking about prefrencing but the shear ability to interract at will...this means that the beign makes choices albiet thoughtfully, rationally or downright randomly which is theoritically what freewill is..

Mr anony:
How exactly?

Human motor skills are developed from the ability to constantly interact with his immediate..Now the number through which this interactions go on is near unlimited. Although hard to concieve, its plausible that a bieng with this ability will develop these skills, learn from these experience and make decisions based on these.

Deep Sight:

Its wrong because no virtual creation will ever have independent thought or freewill or self consciousness.

No robot either.

That's like suggesting that you can have a self conscious software or car. The engineered matter can and will only respond as per what is programmed into it and not have independent free thought of its own.

Thus Nick Bostrom was just being an idle and shallow fantasist.

Through free and near unlimited interaction..An AI can develop its own ideas no?

This is great news and it shows dangote as a well modeled business man

Not bad...

The unhealthy and unwarranted wasting of humans of human lives? Yes, i am witness to that..the Nigerian Security Forces can be quite crude in approach. Seen them put bullets in cuffed 'Civilians' on the street in broad day light but is the price to be paid not too heavy for the goal at hand? Now that's a question only the president can answer.

Nnanna nzewi: The is no free launch anywhere.if they said is free,yet they lead u to swear to an oath,then it means its a secret organisation.christainity is not freemason,cos the lodges knew that there master is not our Lord Jesus Christ.Jesus is the Lord of Lords!

Go to a homeless shelter if free lunch is what you are looking for..

iamdsam: I like to join this freemason o. How can I join

Get a member to recommend you or you can attend an open day.

But there has been hardly any case of insurgence in Adamawa naw