You Davidylan who shave your face, but leaves your armpit and pubic hair unkept that they could be plaited/cornrolled, wants to tell be civility. If Jesus is stone age, then I am indeed stone age. See the difference between me and you? Yet if you and me are standing side by side, in Rochester of Manhattan the women we know that they will be talking to a real man when they come to me. But if you happen to be sporting an earring, which will not surprise me, then we may just be wondering, is this 'live or is it memorex!'

@Nwando: I love women too much, and I copy the prophet who came after Jesus in that department. Women make me happy and there is no celibacy in Islam. And I do not have to ride a donkey to get around. I will leave that to those of you who observe the Easter celebration. Afterall, that was when Jesus was reported to have ridden a donkey. Davidylan why getting married? Leave that to the Muslims. I am giving you a sure way that Christianity will be depleted without anybody doing nothing about it.

olabowale:

You Davidylan who shave your face, but leaves your armpit and pubic hair unkept that they could be plaited/cornrolled, wants to tell be civility.

Alhaji, it is just proper hygiene to wash ur armpits or shave it if u need to. Sprituality has nothing to do with ur beard! Do you know if the devil keeps a beard too?

olabowale:

If Jesus is stone age, then I am indeed stone age. See the difference between me and you? Yet if you and me are standing side by side, in Rochester of Manhattan the women we know that they will be talking to a real man when they come to me.

ur idea of a real man is the size of his beard? alhaji agbaya ni yin ejoo ema binu!

@Davidylan: Kini nma bi nu si! There is no reason for it. I su eni lo ma nti wo eni be po. Islam is big enough to actually make me very contrived that you could abuse me, and at the same time ask me not to be offended by it! I wo ati Olayiwola legbe, so it tells you who I could be when you transpose me into being a member of your family.

But afterall, we are all human being. We make mistakes. Now if devils wear beard, it is not for religious reason. If it is it is not Islam, because we say 'auhu dhu billahi minal shaytani rajiim' many times a day! If he has a religion, it must be a religion that is rejected by God. Christianity, and others are rejected by God already. From your statement about armpit it seems to me that its like a 50/50 chance that you shave it or not. Like I said before if I copy Jesus, in the things that I copy about him, I must truly love more than you who do not copy anything about him. Oh, except that you praise him too much and call him god!

I am very certain my Jesus is different from your Jesus. My was not nailed to the cross and crucified on it. Yours was. Mine was not a man who went about almost makes in his dress code. I use the on the cross image as my yardstick. Yours was almost naked.

olabowale:

I am very certain my Jesus is different from your Jesus. My was not nailed to the cross and crucified on it. Yours was. Mine was not a man who went about almost makes in his dress code. I use the on the cross image as my yardstick. Yours was almost naked.

where then are the "revelations" allah sent to this ur jesus? Did ur quran describe this Jesus or are you stealing the biblical description of my Jesus?

My Jesus revelation is the authentic and undiluted Injiil. The essential message of what was revealed to Jesus is in the pages of the Qur'an. I do not take anything from your unauthentic and diluted Gospel. Which one of the more than one gospel should I be taking from anyway? So you see, I have no need for anything that you have. My Jesus is described as a sincere and obedient messenger and prophet of his Lord to the Children of Israel. He was their last messenger in the chain of successive messengers/prophets. He was described to have been given many things under his prophetic responsibilities and duties. And proclaiming the worship of One God and the coming of the only messenger who came after him, whose name was Ahmad, were at the core of his responsibilities! Wants more? I could talk about my Jesus versus your Jesus all day and all night, till Sunday!

olabowale:

My Jesus revelation is the authentic and undiluted Injiil.

thank you . . but where is this injil that i may read it and understand your Jisos?

@ Davidylan:Read the pages of Qur'an, you will find Jesus in Surah Baqarah, Imran, Nisaa, Al Maidah, Hud, Ibrahim, Ambiyah, Isra, Kahf, Mariam, Saffa and others. You will find himthere along with his message!

olabowale:

@ Davidylan:Read the pages of Qur'an, you will find Jesus in Surah Baqarah, Imran, Nisaa, Al Maidah, Hud, Ibrahim, Ambiyah, Isra, Kahf, Mariam, Saffa and others. You will find himthere along with his message!

Stop being mischievous . . . you know there is no message there. Is that the injil that your muslim friends here have vigorously claimed is lost?
Why are you so deceitful?

. . .because he simply doesn't want to be honest (lol, isn't it obvious?)

Wordsmith:

. . .because he simply doesn't want to be honest (lol, isn't it obvious?)

Finito!

@Davidylan

thank you . . but where is this injil that i may read it and understand your Jisos?

I dont know when you will stop fooling yourself just like you have been doing in most threads.

1.Did God give Jesus a revelation or four revelations (mathew, mark, Luke and John)

2. Are the four writers really eye witness to what really happened
3 Are they all under inpiration?
4. Was the revelation revealed during Jesus' time or after his death?
5.What does the Injil contains?

Thanks

babs787:

@Davidylan

I don't know when you will stop fooling yourself just like you have been doing in most threads.

[s]1.Did God give Jesus a revelation or four revelations (mathew, mark, Luke and John)

2. Are the four writers really eye witness to what really happened
3 Are they all under inpiration?
4. Was the revelation revealed during Jesus' time or after his death?
5.What does the Injil contains?[/s]

Thanks

@babs787,

When your mendacity has run out of gas to cease from your own foolery, please attend the simple question I asked as reason for opening this thread, thank you.

You cannot come with your usual Islamic hypocrisy and penchant for keeping this adventures of "LYING for 'Allah'" on this thread. Find me that verse where the Qur'an claimed to have come to "correct" the Biblical scriptures, or simply apologise to your 'Allah' that your attempt to force words into his mouth did not work here!

Your attempt to try ever so hard to change or deflect the focus of this thread is a waste of your internet resources. The Islamic fraud you parade for "intelligence" is a sham, and your efforts to mend your holes here is a laugh!


Four pages LATER, and yet my simple questions are taking Muslims forever to answer!!

On the first page, I had made this observation:

---

[list]
According to babs787, the Qur'an came to "CORRECT" some perceived 'mistakes' in the "original message". That is a dubious statement not even supported by the Qur'an - unless babs787 is hell-bent on forcing words into Allah's mouth to make him say what he never said in the Qur'an!

He is fond of making such hypocritical statements while claiming them to be what the Qur'an says. For example, it was the same babs787 who lied to the public on this Forum that the Qur'an was "stating" that the Torah was lost - see again:

IS THE QURAN WRONG IN STATING THAT THE TORAH WAS LOST OR CORRUPTED?

(Source: babs787's assertion in another thread)

Can we ask babs787 to please kindly quote where the Qur'an was "stating" that the Torah was LOST! Without the usual drama of long stories, WHERE did the Qur'an "STATE" that the Torah was LOST, babs787?

Up to the present date, he has not offered an answer to his assertive denials - and I've already bleached that duplicity in a relevant thread.[/list]

---

Up until the present, you have only come back proving far worse than when you first began! You have proven that Muslims can no longer understand English (which is why you were using the gimmick of begging that the meaning of "confirmation" be reposted on the previous page 3 from the first page). You have also proven beyond any shadow of doubt that you simply know how too well to LIE for "Allah" - and that campaign has not blessed Islam one bit!

As many times as you try to deflect this thread and shamlesssly produce your emptiness for not finding that verse for the claimed Qura'n coming to "correct" the Biblical scriptures - that is how many times you will continue to confirm the slicker that you are! Please come back and confirm it!

, babs787, babs787, na wa o.

Anyway try and listen to words of reason.


Understand that pilgrim.1 was also once a muslims and if I understand pilgrim.1 correctly he was once also like you (babs787), trying very hard to lie for allah and , trying very hard to reject the 100% truth of the bible.


The fundamental, issue here is that you, pilgrim.1 knows about the lies of allah, mohammed and the quran. And the pilgrim.1 is trying to let you see and realise the lies in the quran.

Yet instead of facing up to the truth , you continually continued to dodge, and repeatedly tried to misdirect attention to stupid questions that sound similar to ,

"Why is the Black Man black "

" Where did the bible say the moon is in the sky, "

"How many people were there when Jesus was talking, '

"when did Jesus receive a revelation, "

"How old was Jesus , when he started "

"How did we know that Jesus was not sent by allah"

"how man letters are in the arabic language"


PLEASE COME ON STOP ALL OF THESE OBVIOUSLY, DUMB QUESTIONS , WHICH ARE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER AT HAND.


The kind of rhetorical, misdirecting, misleading and deceptive questions that you keep asking simply shows that:

1. you are being BLUNTLY mischevious

or

2. You are desperate to find a contradiction in the bible (even when there is non)

or

3. you are desperate to point accussing fingers the bible and everyone the believe in it, all in the hope that that would divert attention away from the fact that quran is a fraud, mohammed is a fraud, allah is a fraud (the devil or his demons)

or

4. you simply don't understand the difference between THE TRUTH (OF THE BIBLE) AND THE LIE OF QURAN.


Every cult prevents its members from leaving , in other to protect its secrets (evil deeds and lies) from being known.

Does it sound like a coincidence that islam (just like a cult) also prevents its members from converting away from islam (just like a cult), and then tends to make it difficult for ordinary people to understand what is actually going on in it


Above all things my motive for having all these discussions with you is because I want you to know the truth, understand the truth, and at the end of the day, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

@Olabowale

Just to behave and keep my promise to thos in the other thread, I decided to reply your rejoinder in this thread.

olabowale:

@Pilgim.1: I want you to listen and listen good. I am not going to ever repeat it to you again: Yi yo Ekun, ki nse to jo. You of all people can not scare me. I have your equal as my sons already. I am in the same level with those who can produce you as a daughter. Learn manners and then we can talk.

I am sorry, dear olabowale - but my premise was not to scare you. Not at all. The one thing I have always tried to maintain is good sense in all my discussions or debates - and I warned you several times that you respect the convictions of others so you don't get put in your place for not doing so. If you are already feeling "scared", that says so much about the person you are - and, sadly, you have missed the whole gist of my rejoinder.

olabowale:

If you know me, you will learn respect. God Almighty is the Only One I am Afraid of. So go and shed all the garments of pride that you falsely wear! There is nothing you have achieved, nothing that you are the first in it. You have lied long enough and its about time to either put up or shut up.

If I have lied, then please grow up as a man and prove your mettle by matching your intelligence to coherently walk me through with FACTS as to where I might have been greatly mistaken. Your cheap cowardice of sneaking into the Islamic Talk thread to act like a child is hardly becoming of a person who chants for "respect" all day long and yet has none to offer others.

olabowale:

Do it with your comrades. Islam is too much and it is the only reason I have tolerated you.

I have tried to endure and tolerate you guys; but when you would no longer pay any heed, I had to take you to task and demonstrate the hogwash you you noised on the Forum as an alternative to coherent submissions.

olabowale:

If I were in front of you, be it in England or your Blood country Nigeria where you have your people, and even if they were to back you up, you could not be this arrogant and not to me.

Look who's now referring to Nigeria as "your Bloody country" And you yet claim to be an Ijebuman, abi? Abeg pack your childish shakara one corner and grow up, you hear?

olabowale:

You need to find Honesty first and then your level of comrades. Enough said.

Dear sir, I have been both honest and forthright in debating with Muslims. The one reason why you remain sad is simply because your pride has been punctured (oh, not by me - there are other far more intelligent Christians on Nairaland who have thrashed your lengthy bloviates and reduced your story-telling to the lullaby that they are!).

olabowale:

I wonder if you could tell your elders that they wear nose rings or that they don't bellyfull, and they will be happy with you.

So, no just those things dey pepper you for body? Sorry sir, no vex! I thought the wahala was even far grevious than those.

Anyway, my elders do not act so frantic with lengthy theorise that arrive at nothing such as you are fond of posting on the Forum! So there!!

olabowale:

So much for the Yoruba culture! Amu ni buni, eron Ibiye, Ibiye loju kon, eron e loju kon. Oro loboro wa o. Owe ni mo de pa fun e yen.

Hehehe. . . You're simply a joke this afternoon! No be you just vex refer to Nigeria as "your Bloody country"? You really waka far!

olabowale:

My two sons, do not disrespect any elder, yet they were born outside Nigeria.

I hear! While your two sons do not disrespect any elder, their father would simply do that very thing! Well done!

olabowale:

Yet Olayiwola is already in Medical school and Oladunwo will be finishing engineering this semester!

Good advert. Tell them to send their CV over - I have jobs for them! Your pride no go let you follow my advice. . . afterall, you have lost contact with your "Bloody". . . native land!

olabowale:

Yet I have lived outside Nigeria longer than you were ever alive on planet earth! And not once do I disrespect or use horrible descriptions/qualifiers for my elders.

I agree you have lived outside Nigeria longer than my age! The sad thing to note is that you have nothing to show for it by way of intelligent and coherent reasoning.

olabowale:

Go learn humility first. Then wer can talk. Until then good ridden. I do no see your reason to puff up!

I wasn't puffing up. I humbly entered that thread to shake up your cheap sneak-and-hide cowardice. . . that's all!

@Pilgrim.!: Since you have no respect for elders on this thread, evidently is microcosm of your respect to those elders in your bloodline. First you have two jobs, just to go to school, (Nothing is wrong with holding down jobs), how are you going to give omo Onile olono a job? Don't you know that from their names? Egbe Isu ko ni Iyon. They did not have to take any loan for their education. Neither did i for mine. Its all family funds!

When you get to Nigeria, which you called bloody, and truly know who I am (Alhamdulillah), you will know that neither have I lost touch nor dis I not have anything to show for 'it!' No wonder that you are what you are! Only if i know your origin, then I may be able to see how you have turned out to be this terrible: It is as if your home training was Zero or rather, because since i do not know for certain whether your folks tried to impact you with any, you may have been the one who refused to take anything from "it takes a village to raise a child," efforts of your people!

You and me are not in the same level and i do not want to dignify your thirst for attention. Egbe eye ni eye nto! And when you are sure that you have arrived, then let us know where you are from, particularly and maybe I can 'bleach' them clean for you! Am almost sure that you have a very terrible background based on your arrogance on this board! Truth is very far from your conscience. You can not even speak the truth if your life depends on it: Good example is the verse 71 of Surah Mariam. You do not read Arabic and even in the translation of it, it was not stated that Muslims will go int Hell, yet you dishonestly said so.

When I know your worth, which is nothing, then I I will tell you who I really am. And even in your England, even though you are not in London, my nephew is well known among the Nigerian elites over there. So you see your 'bloviate,' is nothing but a charade. A sign of frustration of a very difficult living! All I can say to you now is that you should have introspect of your life and be contrived! You live a life of someone who is heedless and heading for destruction. You have empty pride as if your existence is more than having a better beginning of a sexual act between a man and a woman! You are not more than a single sperm fusing with a single egg! Yet your live on this earth as not be remarkably special!

Look, when you arrive, let me know. And if you want a job, in Nigeria, in Engineering, where you can get your hands dirty, and not as a theorist, InshaAllah, 'we,' (meaning me here; a majestic plural), can secure one for you. And pay you One year in advance! This here is to show how my Creator Allah the Almighty has showered His Mercy on me! And if you will need a job in America, and depending what field of engineering you study, then we can talk about it. The man who will give you a job is already on the Nairaland board! He has seen your stupidity, but yet count it as ignorance.

Insert Quote
@Pilgrim.!: Since you have no respect for elders on this thread, evidently is microcosm of your respect to those elders in your bloodline. First you have two jobs, just to go to school, (Nothing is wrong with holding down jobs), how are you going to give omo Onile olono a job? Don't you know that from their names? Egbe Isu ko ni Iyon. They did not have to take any loan for their education. Neither did i for mine. Its all family funds!


When you get to Nigeria, which you called bloody, and truly know who I am (Alhamdulillah), you will know that neither have I lost touch nor this I not have anything to show for 'it!' No wonder that you are what you are! Only if i know your origin, then I may be able to see how you have turned out to be this terrible: It is as if your home training was Zero or rather, because since i do not know for certain whether your folks tried to impact you with any, you may have been the one who refused to take anything from "it takes a village to raise a child," efforts of your people!


You and me are not in the same level and i do not want to dignify your thirst for attention. Egbe eye ni eye nto! And when you are sure that you have arrived, then let us know where you are from, particularly and maybe I can 'bleach' them clean for you! Am almost sure that you have a very terrible background based on your arrogance on this board! Truth is very far from your conscience. You can not even speak the truth if your life depends on it: Good example is the verse 71 of Surah Mariam. You do not read Arabic and even in the translation of it, it was not stated that Muslims will go int Hell, yet you dishonestly said so.

When I know your worth, which is nothing, then I I will tell you who I really am. And even in your England, even though you are not in London, my nephew is well known among the Nigerian elites over there. So you see your 'bloviate,' is nothing but a charade. A sign of frustration of a very difficult living! All I can say to you now is that you should have introspect of your life and be contrived! You live a life of someone who is heedless and heading for destruction. You have empty pride as if your existence is more than having a better beginning of a sexual act between a man and a woman! You are not more than a single sperm fusing with a single egg! Yet your live on this earth as not be remarkably special!

Look, when you arrive, let me know. And if you want a job, in Nigeria, in Engineering, where you can get your hands dirty, and not as a theorist, InshaAllah, 'we,' (meaning me here; a majestic plural), can secure one for you. And pay you One year in advance! This here is to show how my Creator Allah the Almighty has showered His Mercy on me! And if you will need a job in America, and depending what field of engineering you study, then we can talk about it. The man who will give you a job is already on the Nairaland board! He has seen your stupidity, but yet count it as ignorance.

I think bros. Olabowale cautioned me then when I tried responding to same person over her non-challant attitude, lack of moral, very uncouth etc but it seems he himself saw the kind of person she is. You dont have to sit with a person for years before you will know who the person is, through chatting with a person, you will be able to say one or two things about a person. Na wa o. Obinrin so iwa nu, o ni oun ko ni ori oko. Charity begins at home but should never end there. The way you relate with people you meet matters a lot because you dont know who is who.

I have been saying that. The way we relate with people, those older than us and those in which we are older than shows the kind of home one comes from and the kind of home training one received. For the fact that we are on air doesnt mean that one should be disrespectful to everybody. Some that are not even up to 20 years or in their mid-twenties will just sit at the pc and be writing, insulting and posting rubbish to those older than them just because they have the opportunity to use pc. Some people do not know who is who just because we all sit and contribute to n/land, they think that everybody is their mate in all ramification. Let me stop here because a word is enough for the wise that has ears.

Dear olabowale and babs787,

Thank you for expressing your vexations. I won't try to justify anything you have alleged against me. The one thing I requested of you was that you simply quote the verse where babs787 made the assertion that the Qur'an said it came to "correct" the Biblical scriptures.

All we have seen are verses in the Qur'an that state clearly that it [the Qur'an] came rather to CONFIRM the Biblical scriptures. There is not a single verse where 'Allah' said that the Qur'an came to "correct" the Bible - NOT ONE VERSE of the Qur'an said so!

That is why I opened this thread to ask: Where Did The Qur'an Say So?

The answer so far simply is this: NOWHERE did it say so!

If dishonesty is rather all you have to offer for what you cannot substantiate, what then are you trying to achieve with your excuses? It should be pretty obvious to all that we allow for honesty when discussing issues. Can you afford that?

@olabowale,

I do not see how you have faced up to the simple request I offered you in the Islam Talk thread; so, rather than keep teasing you to foam in the mouth, I'd just briefly respond to two issues in your rejoinder.

olabowale:

Truth is very far from your conscience. You can not even speak the truth if your life depends on it: Good example is the verse 71 of Surah Mariam. You do not read Arabic and even in the translation of it, it was not stated that Muslims will go int Hell, yet you dishonestly said so.

Is that all that angers you to the extent you thought I was lying? No worries, let me simply delineate issues here for you so there is no further confusion on the previous post leading to this.

#1. This was your direct quote:

[list]

I was surprised when one of the males replaced 'passing over it,' of Verse 71 of Surah Mariam with 'go into it!' The height of dishonesty!

[/list]

#2. My direct response: to yours was:

[list]

I'm surprised at your hypocrisy. The various MUSLIM translations directly use that exact clause ("go into it" in that verse! Please go there and sse for yourself!!

[/list]

#3. The only thing left now is to demonstrate that I was not lying, but that indeed Muslim translators have used that exact clause ("go into it" and its equivalent in that verse:

[list]

Translations of Sura 19 v 71

Some of these are:

~ (a) The Meaning of the Glorious Koran, by Hassan Qaribullah:

"There is not one of you who shall not go down to it:
such is a thing decreed, determined by your Lord."

- - - - - - - -

~ (b) The Holy Qur'an, by Sheikh Muhammad Sarwar:

"It is the inevitable decree of your Lord that
every one of you will be taken to hell"

[/list]

You can see indeed that Muslim translators themselves provide the idea that Sura 19 v 71 is literally saying they would:

~ "go into it"

that is. . .

~ "go down to it" [Hassan Qaribullah]

and

~ "be taken to hell" [Sheikh Muhammad Sarwar].

This is not saying the same thing as "passing over it", and this should help you see that I had not made false assertions as you alleged earlier.

Second, in regards to this allegation:

it was not stated that Muslims will go int Hell, yet you dishonestly said so.

Well, if indeed you assumed that I was being dishonest, the discussions following the same subject will help us see it so. That is why in another thread which you opened, I have offered two questions to help us contextualize and clarify this discussion:

~ does Sura 19 v 71 include Muslims or NOT?

~ will Muslims ENTER Hell fire at all or NOT?

I do hope that you can help us by providing simple straightforward answers to those questions; not long theories, please.

This is why I've asked that you please check your submissions and persuasions carefully so you don't assume things that you cannot substantiate.

Cheers.

Thread resurrected after over two years.

@babs787: Did you find the answer yet? 'Cos I'm curious. Thanks.

@Inesqor

Thread resurrected after over two years.

Did you find the answer yet? 'Cos I'm curious. Thanks

Dude, I have not been around and not posting on this section but to answer your curiosity, it is not stated there. So? (You may continue from here but try to be civil)

@Pilgrim.1: « #7 on: December 27, 2007, 09:20 PM »

@babs787,

Here is your direct quote: (and the source: click here)

Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 03:46 PM
The original message has been distorted hence the coming of the last book to correct those mistakes.

That is a classic LIE of Muslim propagandists. There is no reference in the Qur'an to that dubious statement.

That is why I brought you here to have a field day and let us know where the Qur'an ever claimed that "advanced lie" you have adduced to put words into Allah's mouth.

WHERE did your Qur'an say so, babs787?

WHAT rather did your Qur'an claim?

Qur'aan and I quote:

005.015
YUSUFALI: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over
much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book, -

Followed by God [Allaah] emphasizing in Noble Qur'aan [next verse]:

005.016
YUSUFALI: Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight.

Bottom line is that as question itself indicates by use of [words] "original copy" which is highly inappropriate in this case. However, implication by virtue of question is absurd. Because FORENSIC AND EMPIRICAL RESULTS proves that MASTER COPY [or SOURCE CODE] was never lost nor
tempered. It was and it has always been in possession of God [Allaah] the Creator of all heaven and earth. It further proves the existence of ONE and ONLY God [Allaah] the all Knower and all Seer who way ahead foretold to Jews and Christians in OT and NT about the arrival of Prophet Muhammed [saw] and commanded Jews and Christians to follow Prophet Muhammed [saw].

Noble Qur'aan 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."

Noble Qur'aan 3:85! And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers[].

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

Narrated Abu Huraira: "The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). 'Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever (truth that) is revealed to you.' ' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460)"

Thank you for expressing your vexations. I won't try to justify anything you have alleged against me. The one thing I requested of you was that you simply quote the verse where babs787 made the assertion that the Qur'an said it came to "correct" the Biblical scriptures.





"And unto you have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watch over it …, " (the Qur’an 5:48)

This emphasizes two main aspects of the Qur’an:

a) The Qur’an confirms those teachings or passages of previous scriptures which remained intact.

b) The Qur’an is the last, complete, authoritative and authentic revelation. It is the final arbiter and the only criterion to correct any inaccuracy or misinterpretation which might have occurred in the transmission of scriptures. It helps in discovering human additions to or interpolations of previous revelations, even as it reveals possible deletions which might have taken place through the centuries prior to its revelation (the Qur’an). Indeed one of the names of the Qur’an is al-Furqan (the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong, truth and falsehood).

It follows therefore that a Muslim has no reason to reject the essence of any passage in the Bible if such a passage is confirmed by the Qur’an. For example, we read in the New Testament a reiteration of one of the Ten Commandments:

"And Jesus answered him. The first of all commandments is hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29)

A Muslim who reads this passage in the Qur’an can find no objection to its essence. After all the Qur’an confirms:

"Say He is Allaah, the One and Only (God)" (The Qur’an 112:1)

Peace.

Quran 5 verse 48: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

In this verse we can see that Allah (swt) states that the Quran is sent in truth, confirming that what came before it and guarding it in safety. The Arabic word used here is “Muhaymin” which means ‘Guardian’, ‘Protector’ and ‘Trustworthy’. According to Al-Mawrid Arabic to English dictionary the word means ‘dominant, dominating, predominant, preponderant, prevailing, controlling, commanding, governing, reigning, ruling; (absolute) master, ruler, overlord’ – [Al Mawrid Arabic to English Dictionary pg. 1135].

Tafsir of this verse: Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

“(and Muhayminan over it) means entrusted over it, according to Sufyan Ath-Thawri who narrated it from Abu Ishaq from At-Tamimi from Ibn `Abbas. `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "Muhaymin is, ‘the Trustworthy’. Allah says that the Quran is trustworthy over every Divine Book that preceded it.'' This was reported from `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Mujahid, Muhammad bin Ka`b, `Atiyyah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, `Ata' Al-Khurasani, As-Suddi and Ibn Zayd. Ibn Jarir said, "The Quran is trustworthy over the Books that preceded it. Therefore, whatever in these previous Books conforms to the Quran is true, and whatever disagrees with the Qur'an is false.'' Al-Walibi said that Ibn `Abbas said that Muhayminan means, ‘Witness’. Mujahid, Qatadah and As-Suddi said the same. Al-`Awfi said that Ibn `Abbas said that Muhayminan means, ‘dominant over the previous Scriptures’. These meanings are similar, as the word Muhaymin includes them all. Consequently, the Quran is trustworthy, a witness, and dominant over every Scripture that preceded it. This Glorious Book, which Allah revealed as the Last and Final Book, is the most encompassing, glorious and perfect Book of all times. The Quran includes all the good aspects of previous Scriptures and even more, which no previous Scripture ever contained. This is why Allah made it trustworthy, a witness and dominant over all Scriptures.”

Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas:

“(And unto the have We revealed the Scripture) We have sent you Gabriel with the Qur'an (with the Truth) to make plain the Truth and falsehood, (confirming) the statement of Allah's divine Oneness and some laws (whatever Scripture was before it) whatever Scriptures were before it, (and a watcher over it) a witness upon all the Scriptures before it; it is also said: a witness upon the ruling of stoning; and it is also said: a watcher over all previous Scriptures.”

It is thus seen that Allah (swt) has kept the Quran as a guardian over the previous scriptures so as to guard what was revealed originally thus showing to us that which is corruption in the Bible.

I will now quote some of the Muslims of the present times to see whether they understand that this verse states that the Bible was uncorrupted or that is got corrupted overtime.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali:

“After the corruption of the older revelation, the Quran comes with a twofold purpose: (1) to confirm the true and original Message and (2) to guard it or act as a check to its interpretation. The Arabic word ‘Muhaymin’ is very comprehensive in meaning. It means one who safeguards, watches over, stands witness, preserves and upholds. The Quran safeguards “the Book”, for it has preserved within it the teachings of all the former Books. It watches over these Books in the sense that it corroborates the Word of Allah which has remained intact in them. It stands as a witness because it bears testimony to the Word of Allah contained in these Books and helps to sort it out from the interpretations and commentaries of the people which were mixed with it; what is confirmed by the Quran is the Word of Allah and what is against it is that of the people.”

Muhammad Asad (His translation is often quoted by Christian missionaries):

“The participle ‘muhaymin’ is derived from the quadrilateral verb ‘haymana’, ‘he watched [over a thing]’ or ‘controlled [it]’, and is used here to describe the Quran as the determinant factor in deciding what is genuine and what is false in the earlier Scriptures.”

Maariful Quran:

“The address is to the Holy Prophet (saw) saying that to him Allah has revealed the Quran which confirms the Torah and Injeel, Books previous to it, and is their custodian as well. This is because, after the people of the Torah altered the Torah and the people of the Injeel made changes in the Injeel, it was the Quran alone which turned out to be the kind overseer and protector which exposed the alterations made by them, lit up truth and reality in their proper perspective. Even today the true teachings of the Torah and Injeel still survive through the Quran.”

So we see the whether we look at the Muslims of the past or the present, they understood the term ‘muhaymin’ to mean the same and the interpretation of the verse has always been the same without any changes.

Some Christian missionaries bring to notice that one of the names of Allah (swt) is “AL-MUHAYMIN”. So let us see whether the meaning and explanation of the word “muhaymin” fits with harmony in both the verse and as one of the attributes of Allah (swt).

Muhaymin, according to early Muslims as taken from Ibn Kathir, means the following: Witness and Trustworthy. This word also means ‘Guardian’, ‘Supervisor’ or ‘Protector’. Now do these fit Allah (swt) and the verse in harmony? Yes!

Allah (swt) is our Guardian and hence has given us guidelines to correct ourselves just the way the Quran is the guardian over the Bible, correcting it. Allah (swt) is the Protector and has given us a way to protect ourselves by correcting our mistakes just as the way the Quran corrects the Bible in order to protect what was revealed in the previous scriptures. Allah (swt) is Witness to all that is being done just like the Quran is a witness to the changes made in the Bible thus correcting them.

Hence we see that the definition fits perfectly to Allah (swt) as well as the Quran thus refuting any claims that would suggest otherwise. The Quran is now a guardian over what was revealed before and thus people can learn the truth in the previous scriptures by looking at those parts which the Quran confirms and those which the Quran rejects.


Chapter 2 Verse 41

And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

When we read the verse preceding this, we find that these verses refer to the Children of Israel where Allah (swt) asks them to fulfill the Covenant. Then in this verse Allah (swt) is telling them to believe in what He reveals which confirms the revelation which is with them. So the Quran again is confirming that which is a revelation and not that which is corrupted by human hands. Then we read the next verse:

And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
Thus it becomes apparent that the Quran is telling the Jews not to conceal the Truth. How would the Truth be concealed? The Truth would be concealed by following human corruptions rather than following what Allah (swt) has revealed.

salam expert & nopuqeater

I am surprised at some folks that tries defending glaring and obvious truth in the guise of looking for the exact 'phrase' and is the more reason I backed out. Some people love sticking to their guns thinking that they are right despite serving them the truth in which pilgrim did and I noticed that she could not say anything to the threads where detailed insight were provided. She was looking for the word here when threads exposed the weakness therein further:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.32.html

@Babs787: « #52 on: May 05, 2007, 11:53 AM »

Quote from: ishmael on May 05, 2007, 11:27 AM
Some books are missing in KJV an NIV which are found in the Catholic Bible. The Catholic Bible has more than 66 books.

The books in the Catholic Bible which you do not find in the KJV, NIV and several other versions are known as the apocrypha, and are not part of the canon of Scripture. Evangelical Christians and Jews have never recognized them to be part of the canonical sacred Scripture.

The italic from the bolded is to be noted as s farse from the entrant named Pilgrim.1. I believe this fellow, Pilgrim must be a liar who is selling us a bill of stale goods that the Jews does not believe in the "apocrypha", as if to say they believe in anything ithe Bible after "Old Testament (Torah and Psalm)".

Do the Jews believe in ay of the Gospels, or The Book of Acts, or Epistles of the Apostles, which Paul championed or the Revelations? The answer is clearly NO! The Jews dont even take Jesus for a Prophet.