The God of the Bible (aka Jesus) routinely punishes the innocent for the sins to the guilty. He even goes as far as to punish those who could not in any wise be held responsible for crimes - animals. You can get a taste of God's (aka Jesus) system of justice in the commandments narrative in Exodus 20:

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Under this system of justice, God (aka Jesus) has killed many thousands (if not millions) of children for the sins of their parents. How could this be squared with the claim that Jesus loved the little ones when he has been responsible for liquidated so many of them?

Under this system of justice, God (aka Jesus) has killed many thousands (if not millions) of children for the sins of their parents.

You have to take this one in context, Huxley. The punishing of the children down to the third and fourth generation is only applicable to the Jews.
Back then (in the time long before Christianity), the Jews believed in a sort of reincarnation - the dead lived on in the form of their children for a couple of generations (they had no "Heaven". Hence if you killed the subsequent generations, you killed the reincarnation of the original sinner.

Bastage:

You have to take this one in context, Huxley. The punishing of the children down to the third and fourth generation is only applicable to the Jews.
Back then (in the time long before Christianity), the Jews believed in a sort of reincarnation - the dead lived on in the form of their children for a couple of generations (they had no "Heaven". Hence if you killed the subsequent generations, you killed the reincarnation of the original sinner.

I wonder! Which other parts of the ten commandments are only applicable to the Jews. If I remember correctly, there are many instances in the OT where God (aka Jesus) ordered the killing of non-Jewish children who could hardly have being culpable for the sins of their parents.

huxley:

I wonder! Which other parts of the ten commandments are only applicable to the Jews. If I remember correctly, there are many instances in the OT where God (aka Jesus) ordered the killing of non-Jewish children who could hardly have being culpable for the sins of their parents.

The biblical God released a remix. It's called the new covenant.

you guys are bunch of jokers,

Stop and think one moment.

The name God is not really in the bible.

If this is not an English book written by Englishmen, it’s not there; it was added.

You will also find that God, whether you have a big G, or little g, is not being used in the singular tense, as Eloh or Allah. The beings spoken of in the bible and Koran are the Eloheem, the plural of Eloh.

huxley:

The God of the Bible (aka Jesus) routinely punishes the innocent for the sins to the guilty. He even goes as far as to punish those who could not in any wise be held responsible for crimes - animals. You can get a taste of God's (aka Jesus) system of justice in the commandments narrative in Exodus 20:

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Under this system of justice, God (aka Jesus) has killed many thousands (if not millions) of children for the sins of their parents. How could this be squared with the claim that Jesus loved the little ones when he has been responsible for liquidated so many of them?

actually in Ezekiel God said that no one would perish for the sins of another, who is not in some sense worthy of death for his own sins. the israelites sinned continously but he never punished a righteous generation for the sins of their ancestors. and that was in the OT (God was dealing only with the Israelites). in the NT, Jesus saved a woman from serving the punishment she deserved under the religious law of the time for adultery, that's more like the justice of the God of the bible.


in the OT, God dealt with nations. it was Israel and the others. Israel was his 'child' and he was merciful to those other nations that were merciful to Israel and when they faced opposition from other nations he fought for them, in the NT, he deals with individuals and not just israelites but anyone who cares to listen.


@ Kuns,

i dont think it was "added", it was translated. the bible wasnt originally in english and the only english word the translators could come up with to convey the same message was God. by the way, Allah isn't a proper name, it means God in arabic and i think the word was in usage before Mohammed. i dont know about Eloh but i guess it's not a proper name also.

Moses asked God for his name and the reply God gave him was Yahweh (Jehova) translated to mean "I AM THAT I AM" in the english bible. the Jews revered the name and in order to avoid profaning the name, they used Adonai or El- instead (meaning Lord or God).

@GL

don't think it was "added", it was translated. the bible wasnt originally in english and the only english word the translators could come up with to convey the same message was God. by the way, Allah isn't a proper name, it means God in arabic and i think the word was in usage before Mohammed. i don't know about Eloh but i guess it's not a proper name also.

Moses asked God for his name and the reply God gave him was Yahweh (Jehova) translated to mean "I AM THAT I AM"  in the english bible. the Jews revered the name and in order to avoid profaning the name, they used Adonai or El- instead (meaning Lord or God).

Using the Hebrew version of the Torah Barashith  (Genesis) 1:1 The word Elohim is used, Eloh-I'm is plural for the word "Eloh". Elohem means "these beings" is hebrew ELOH is singular, the prefix -I'm at the end of the word makes it a plurality, more that one.

That's why the bible keeps saying let us make this and let us make that, that plurality again. More than one being is being refered t other.

Allah and Eloh is the same word but different dialects. Only the vowel E and A change at beginning the the Nouns and the o changes to an "a" E-L[b]O[/b]H, A-L[b]A[/b]H

You can find this in Genesis 10: 22 "The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram."

This is where the [b]Aram[/b]ic Hebrew and [b]Asshur[/b]ic Arabic dialects stem from in the bible. The sons of Shem.

What the western religion has done is too take the plurality and make it a singular white God, in replace for those being of whatever, was there before.

This concept started with Alexander the Greek. The new world concept, with it's new religion to match.

In this context these mis-translations were intensionally done, as a form of mind control.

The Christian bible writers' added the word God in to the Bible.

The Word ELOH or ALLAH as it's root in the word A'la or E'loh meaning above, upon. It doesn't mean God. Which is what it has been translated to mean today.

As the words were translated (trans as in travel, to move from place to place, change places) their meaning also changed.

huxley:

The God of the Bible (aka Jesus) routinely punishes the innocent for the sins to the guilty. He even goes as far as to punish those who could not in any wise be held responsible for crimes - animals. You can get a taste of God's (aka Jesus) system of justice in the commandments narrative in Exodus 20:

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Under this system of justice, God (aka Jesus) has killed many thousands (if not millions) of children for the sins of their parents. How could this be squared with the claim that Jesus loved the little ones when he has been responsible for liquidated so many of them?

POINT OF CORRECTION:
If it takes me hundred times to tell you and your colleagues that Jesus is not the Almighty God i will.
Jesus is the son of the most high,several times in the bible he repeated it that his father(Jehovah GOD) sent him.
He was sent so that you don't perish, can't you just understand simple mission

kola oloye:

POINT OF CORRECTION:
If it takes me hundred times to tell you and your colleagues that Jesus is not the Almighty God i will.
Jesus is the son of the most high,several times in the bible he repeated it that his father(Jehovah GOD) sent him.
He was sent so that you don't perish, can't you just understand simple mission

What type of Christian are you? You sound so ignorant of you own religion. Allow me to help you. Turn to the Christian website christiananswers, where I have lifted the following;

Is Jesus Christ a man, or is he God?

Jesus Christ is most definitely God. He created Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, in his image. He is the Creator of the universe. The Bible says, “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” (John 1:3). This includes all the stars, all the original animals and plants, and even the angels (Colossians 1:15-17).

It is important not be confused. God did not create Jesus. Jesus is God, and he has always existed.

Jesus proved that he is God by doing many things that only God could do. These are called miracles. He made dead people alive. He walked across a great lake. He made blind eyes see perfectly again. He healed deadly diseases with a word.

Why don't you check the rest of the quoted article to educate yourself before you come back here? Otherwise, it would be like debating with a kid, am afraid.

The major problem you have is that you are not patient enough to learn,you are always in a hurry.
The fact that somebody told or you reading anything on any site does not mean that the person is right.
If you want to learn you must be a good listener.
Whenever you are ready to learn,i will prove to you that Jesus is not God.
I will show you from the Quran and the bible as well.

kola oloye:

The major problem you have is that you are not patient enough to learn,you are always in a hurry.
The fact that somebody told or you reading anything on any site does not mean that the person is right.
If you want to learn you must be a good listener.
Whenever you are ready to learn,i will prove to you that Jesus is not God.
I will show you from the Quran and the bible as well.

Go ahead then. I expect you answers will also fully explain why it is that he claimed himself to be God. I await you answers patiently.

huxley:

Go ahead then. I expect you answers will also fully explain why it is that he claimed himself to be God. I await you answers patiently.

Matthew 11:25
[ Rest for the Weary ] At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have
hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Matthew 11:27
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the
Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.
Matthew 15
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"
13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
Matthew 16:17
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 18:10
[ The Parable of the Lost Sheep ] "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of[b] my Father in heaven.[/b]
Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 18:35
"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Matthew 20:23
Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to
those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me.
Yet not as I will, but as you will."
Matthew 26:42
He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
Matthew 26:53
Do you think I cannot call on[b] my Father[/b], and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
Luke 10:22
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
DO YOU STILL WANT ME TO CONTINUE? MY QURAN IS NOT HERE WITH ME NOW.

kola oloye:

Matthew 11:25
[ Rest for the Weary ] At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have
hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Matthew 11:27
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the
Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.
Matthew 15
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"
13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
Matthew 16:17
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 18:10
[ The Parable of the Lost Sheep ] "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of[b] my Father in heaven.[/b]
Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 18:35
"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Matthew 20:23
Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to
those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me.
Yet not as I will, but as you will."
Matthew 26:42
He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
Matthew 26:53
Do you think I cannot call on[b] my Father[/b], and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
Luke 10:22
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
DO YOU STILL WANT ME TO CONTINUE? MY QURAN IS NOT HERE WITH ME NOW.

You have just quoted verses from the Bible without so much as elucidating why you think these verses hold primacy over the verses I provided. PLEASE CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY YOU VERSES OVERRIDE THE ONES I PROVIDED AND WHY THOSE OTHER CHRISTIAN WEBSITES ARE WRONG?

Secondly, why should you use the Koran to buttress your belief? Why do you think the Koran is right about this and wrong about the others?

Now, do you think you have the mettle to deal with these issues? I await your response with the greatest amount of patience.

Kola oloye,

Did I scare you off? Are my questions too hard for you or are you taking great care and caution to research the subject further?

even christain can not agree weather their jesus is god or the son of god. what a bunch of goons.

@ Kola, what happened to "I and my father are one", "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God", "he that has seen me has seen the father", i hope this doesn't start a trinity true/false argument.

besides, i don't see how you can use both bible and koran to prove that Jesus is the son of God as they have opposing views on that issue.

@GL

Permit me to contribute just a cent to your post:

@ Kola, what happened to "I and my father are one", "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God", "he that has seen me has seen the father", i hope this doesn't start a trinity true/false argument.

This is the verse

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one

If you read from the beginning (28), you would see that Jess said that the father is greater than him and even in verse 29 tha He is greater than all of the.

Now can you interpret this verse for me"

John 17:20-22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".

Are we saying Jesus including the disciples are same and ONE?
Have you studied John 1v1 very well particularly Hotheos and Tontheos?

kola oloye:

POINT OF CORRECTION:
If it takes me hundred times to tell you and your colleagues that Jesus is not the Almighty God i will.
Jesus is the son of the most high,several times in the bible he repeated it that his father(Jehovah GOD) sent him.
He was sent so that you don't perish, can't you just understand simple mission

na by force?

What has Religion done for Nigeria?

The greatest sin is to look for God outside of ourselves.

If God created us in his image, how come he doesn't look like us?

We as Nuwaubians, Nuwbuns, Nubians, Africans, Blacks, Negroids, Igbos, Yorubas, Ethiopians, Afro-Americas, Afro- Caribbeans, Afro-Europeans whatever you want to call yourself worship, adore, acknowledge, honour all others except ourselves and our kind.

We straighten our hair, bleach our skin, dress, talk, walk, eat, worship, imitate, adore, bless all other people and cultures of the world except our selfs and our own way of life, why is there so much self-hate and fear to the point where we seem to have lost the ability to reasoning soundly?

Why don't Africans like to read anything outside of work and religion?

@babs 787
Thank you for standing in the gap for me, i wasn't available then.

GL:

@ Kola, what happened to "I and my father are one", "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God", "he that has seen me has seen the father", i hope this doesn't start a trinity true/false argument.

besides, i don't see how you can use both bible and koran to prove that Jesus is the son of God as they have opposing views on that issue.

Quran did not say that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus stands out as one of the prophets of God.
Quran told us that Allah is too holy to begot any child so Jesus was seen there as a prophet.
If then he is a prophet how could he be the Almighty God again

If you go to REVELATIONS 21: 22-23

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
My dear, Jesus is the Lamb of God, he is not the Almighty

Another instance is this:
The bible says that a woman shall leave her relations and be joined with the husband and the two shall become one.
ONE in the statement above is talking about the spirit not the body Likewise when Jesus was talking about himself and Jehova God as one.
May the Good Lord give you understanding as you meditate on this.

How come your God does not look like you?

Your God as pale skin and Furs like hair (similar to what animals have), how come you or we have woolly hair?

Kuns:

How come your God does not look like you?

Your God as pale skin and Furs like hair (similar to what animals have), how come you or we have woolly hair?

I don't have your time since i've told you earlier that Jesus is not God. He (Jesus) is the Christ,i don't have anything to tell you again.

Please, show us all where Jesus told people like you to go around saying he is christ.

This is what you are doing see Matthew 16: 20 and I quote "Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ."

Now you evaded this question before, now again I ask you what does charged mean?

Are you reading your bible upside down? Answer the question?

Stop that foolishness and stop evading question.

@huxely

I have answered the question of generation curse in the past. Here is the answer I once gave:

Generational curse does not imply that it is God who curses the descendants.
"The sins of the fathers shall be vissited on to the sons," does not mean that it is God who does this injustice by making the sons suffer for the sins of their fathers. It is we humans that are responsible for this injustice. How??
I will give an example:
A man teaches his son that God does not exist. This teaching and the belief(atheism) resulting from it is evil will remain in the family. Even after the father dies, the son still carries this belief; and he may teach his sons the same thing. And from generation on to generation the evil continues. Even many years after the man who invented it has died, as long as the belief is still passed down, from generation to generation, in his family, the evil remains. And the consequence of this evil, will remain and afflict the family from generation to generation until one generation realises that this belief is wrong.
If they discard this wrong belief and seek God; they will find the Truth, and consequently, the curse will fall away from them.
Therefore be careful with what you teach your descendants. The man who teaches his descendants wrong teachings, will remain held in the beyond after he dies; he will not be able to ascend to Paradise as long as his wrong teaching remains in the family. Even if it takes centuries.

Therefore be careful with what you teach your descendants. You will be held accountable for whatever you teach people. Even everything you write in the Nairaland forum; you must one day face the consequences.

@ Kuns

God is indeed just. If he were not you'd be dead already, lol

Anyway, God is indeed just and good as we know as Christians. It is sin that is causing all this destruction, and I will agre it does look as if God is responsible, until one understands the context of sin.

You've mentioned examples of God killing people, but have you considered why He had to do it? Every person including peoples of nations have been given time to know of God's grace and goodness, and that included those nations who knew of Israel's God.

If you take the time to read those instances when he had to, then you will develop a better understanding as to exactly why He had to.

God can either take a passive role, or an active role over human's activities. Either way humans will destroy themselves.

In the light of God's absolute truth, and justice you're not in a position to fully understand the ways and acts of God until you first understand what sin is, and why God has allowed it to have manifested in the first place.

The many confusions of Christendom is largely due to a failure to understand sin, and God's plan of salvation. Majority of Christians have no true knowledge as to the real reason Christ came. I will go into that another time.

We cannot blame God for our own failures, and acts of wickedness, that if not checked, will lead to destruction. When God allows the destruction of peoples, and nations, He does so as a last resort. Often those peoples' degenerate lifestyle forces the hand of God to end their life of misery. Out of love He does them a great favour, as was the case of Sodom, and likewise the Amelakites who for over 500 years failed to see God as the only true Creator of heaven and earth, although they had the exposure to such knowledge.

The bottom line is God will come out justified as was predicted in the bible.

@Bobbyaf

Don't deceive yourself, god just exist in the fantasy of beliars (another name for Satan) or be[b]lie[/b]v[b]ers[/b]

Beliar (or believer name of satan)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliar

oh no,not another mentally challenged kunu/burukutu abi kuns here again *sighs*

@Busybein

What up? Talk to me!

I want the facts, all those people are full of beliar but they have no facts.

So keep the sencible question coming?

Why do run christians run away when they are asked question, based on sound right reasoning?

Kuns:

@Busybein

What up? Talk to me!

I want the facts, all those people are full of beliar but they have no facts.

So keep the sencible question coming?

Why do run christians run away when they are asked question, based on sound right reasoning?

not interested in a conversation with u,look elsewhere,while i attend to important pple

@Busybein

I was right you can't think for yourself.

Then you should let someone with a sound reasoning to answer the question.

Why do run christians run away when they are asked question, based on sound right reasoning?

@ Kuns

I am not sure what other facts, other than what has been shown to you, that you're able to handle just now. Probably if you were to ask about what you're not familiar with, then the answers will come, if not by me, but by others.

So feel free to frame intelligent questions, but be also prepared for intelligent answers.