@ BB

so it would be determinant on a discretionary approval, similar to applying for a visa right? Does this really offer any advantages as such? I'm just curious as to how many cases actually get through this discretionary path.

What would this 'convincing' case entail for you to be granted citizenship by discretion?

big_bumper:
 
So if a British born child without an automatic right to citizenship applies for a visa, he/she cannot be refused because that child could have been coming to exercise his right under section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act, and neither would the parents because they have to do the legwork. 

I'm not sure if I agree with this interpretation, but please humour me in my ignorance. What visa would you be applying for? If it was a visiting visa, would that not be an application under false pretext if the intention is to apply for 'registration by discretion' once the applicant arrives in the UK? 

Essentially, from your post it is easier to apply for HSMP or work permit, get that, move to the UK, then get the child registered by entitlement (due to the shorter period involved from entry to approval for the child).

On that basis, is it then really worth the effort of giving birth to a child in the UK if the same rights can be easily obtained otherwise?

Personally, I think it would still be easier to get another country's citizenship like the US if possible.

debosky:

@ BB

so it would be determinant on a discretionary approval, similar to applying for a visa right? Does this really offer any advantages as such? I'm just curious as to how many cases actually get through this discretionary path.
. . .

Well mon darlink I have missed you too boo

Applying and being granted a visa to the UK is not/and never been discretionary, because once you meet all the requirement and have not falsified anything, it has to be issued, it is as straightforward as that. The ECO's are infallible beings, so if they get it wrong, you have the right to appeal in most category. The appeal is done before the Immigration Judge on a point of law, and hence he can overturn the ECO's decision if the law was not correctly applied.

Moreoever, the discretionary ground is not only applicable to people whose parents don't have settled status, people applying under the HSMP, workpermit, unmarried partner, born to British father not married to the unsettled status mother btw 1983 and 2006, etc all have to apply under this ground too etc

And once again, a child that was born abroad to a non-British/non-settled parent can apply for citizenship in this country, so why not one that was born here. What are Solicitors and Barristers for, and I know some firms who likes taking on challenging roles like this. Some even work pro bono and it is now also possible to instruct a Barrister directly without going through a Solicitor  

debosky:

What would this 'convincing' case entail for you to be granted citizenship by discretion?

I'm not sure if I agree with this interpretation, but please humour me in my ignorance. What visa would you be applying for? If it was a visiting visa, would that not be an application under false pretext if the intention is to apply for 'registration by discretion' once the applicant arrives in the UK? 

To give you one example: Let the child visit once in 3 years if you can afford it, when he/she gets to a certain age, put his name down for a school, apply for a visa next time and state that you are taking the child to exercise his right under the Nationality Act, BINGO You have to explain the child's connection to the UK, where his/her future lies, and add as much compelling circumstances as you can.

And thats just an example, left to me, I don't have the patience for long thing,  I would march right up there, and just go for the jugular, and simply demand my daughter's right. If they refuse to give me, I would take it to the Tribunal myself  

And I agree it can be a tall order and it might be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle but it has been done before and besides you can always fall back on the anything goes HR Act like I mentioned earlier. You are the one wearing the shoe and the one who knows where it is hu
rting so if they tell you to write 25,000 essay wouldn't you jump right in

debosky:

Essentially, from your post it is easier to apply for HSMP or work permit, get that, move to the UK, then get the child registered by entitlement (due to the shorter period involved from entry to approval for the child).

On that basis, is it then really worth the effort of giving birth to a child in the UK if the same rights can be easily obtained otherwise?

Of course you can do that if and only if you meet the requirements for those categories of visas, but then thats a case of "if wishes were horses innit . . . "

debosky:

Personally, I think it would still be easier to get another country's citizenship like the US if possible.

Well the OP already has a current visit visa to the UK hence the reason for Hauwa's penultimate post, and I might not be correct here but I think you can only be pregnant for so long, I think it was around the 9/10 months mark the last time I checked so I doubt she has time to apply for a US visa for now

@ big bumper

I beg to differ. The ECO's are asked to excercise their discretion. Some months ago, my aunt applied for post study work-this was in December, and she was refused because the graduation date was not stated on the letter from her school. The appeal will be heard in mid april. They are asked to excercise their discretion, and some of them just make a mess of the whole thing. This path to citizenship you have just stated has hardly been adhered to. It is almost impossible to get British citizenship in this way. I knoiw this because I have asked questions from someone who truly ''knows'' - you knwowhat I mean. If she really want the citizenship thing for her daughter (or is it son) then she should hurry to the US before Obama closes that route as well. It is easier that way, and perhaps less expensive.

Just a thought.

shapey:

@ big bumper

I beg to differ. The ECO's are asked to excercise their discretion. Some months ago, my aunt applied for post study work-this was in December, and she was refused because the graduation date was not stated on the letter from her school. The appeal will be heard in mid april. They are asked to excercise their discretion, and some of them just make a mess of the whole thing. This path to citizenship you have just stated has hardly been adhered to. It is almost impossible to get British citizenship in this way. I knoiw this because I have asked questions from someone who truly ''knows'' - you knwowhat I mean. If she really want the citizenship thing for her daughter (or is it son) then she should hurry to the US before Obama closes that route as well. It is easier that way, and perhaps less expensive.

Just a thought.

ECO's have no right to exercise any discretion, all they are allowed to do is look at balance of probabilities.

If that was the only ground of refusal, all your Aunty's representative has to utter before the Judge is that the reason for refusal was based on an oversight from a third party. If the onus is not on the appellant to state the date of her graduation anywhere on the post study work extension form, or even if she stated it on the form, but the ECO went with the University's blank page instead, the Jugde would have no choice than to overturn that ECO'S decision

With regards to the acquisition of the citizenship status, I am glad what you said was "it is almost impossible . . ." which means it can be done And I know what I am talking about too Its just like those Nigerian customs telling you you are not allowed to carry fish or the DSS/DWP telling you that you cannot claim benefits as a fulltime student unless you are a lone parent

And as for you people bringing up suggestions that the OP should apply to the states, no be dem dey bounce visa applicants pass abi you wan make dem soil Lastpages pali with their rejection stamp Or do you want them to mistakenly stamp the refusal directly on her British visa


You people are bullies see as I am having to contemplate and ponder at least 10 times before plucking the gumption to use a smilie


@ My Dearest Darling Debo have I toned down its use or should I go back to the drawing board because my work is not yet done

@ big bumper !!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!! I am beginning to think I like you alot. Where is the originator of this therad by the way. For all we know, she may have landed here ready to push her baby, and here we are,




Good morning you all, dress nice and warm today, it's cloudy and some blessings by way of rain may fall on us today.

Expired.

shapey:

@ big bumper !!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!! I am beginning to think I like you alot. Where is the originator of this therad by the way. For all we know, she may have landed here ready to push her baby, and here we are,




Good morning you all, dress nice and warm today, it's cloudy and some blessings by way of rain may fall on us today.

Aawww thanks, I like you too, and find you hilarious and funny too As for the weather, i have given up Hope this year's summer is better than last year sha



@ lastpages

You have the right attitude, grab the opportunity with both hands. The same God that provided the means to procure the UK visa is the same God that would make a way for the US visa you are going to use to travel to the States to deliver your next pikin

As for the invoice, google drfoster.co.uk, it will give you the names and numbers and location of all the hospitals in the UK, and to give you the information of the local hospital you need.

What some people tend to do (not advisable IMHO) is wait till the last minute before presenting themselves at the hospital. By law, emergencies have to be treated before any questions can be asked or before questions about ability to pay can be queried, and a woman in labour is an emergency case so . . .

@ lastpage u have been given d ans go online and browse give mayday a call and ask
Mayday Healthcare NHS Trust
Mayday University Hospital
530 London Road
Croydon
CR7 7YE
Telephone: 020 8401 3000
www.maydayhospital.nhs.uk

from akolawole's mayday bill normal delivery is 905 u cant pay for all d services if u dont get them abi u go pay for CS if u had a normal birth ur best bet is 2 give them a call urself £905 is good if its true

Expired.

hi
have read everyone's comment and agree with all.
having a baby in the uk without a residency has it's perils, but also it's gains.
have u got a place to stay?
on arriving in the uk u must register with a general practitioner who will then refer u to a hospital,
one thing i have found out in life is to go with one's intuition. i also know that u never know until u try.
also notice that no one has offered a hand of help. all is advice and no commitment.
i can hook u up. but u must not be dubious as this is usually the case with we nigers.

gee9:

hi
have read everyone's comment and agree with all.
having a baby in the uk without a residency has it's perils, but also it's gains.
have u got a place to stay?
on arriving in the uk u must register with a general practitioner who will then refer u to a hospital,
one thing i have found out in life is to go with one's intuition. i also know that u never know until u try.
also notice that no one has offered a hand of help. all is advice and no commitment.
i can hook u up. but u must not be dubious as this is usually the case with we nigers.

she asked for advice, she got advice
and talking about dubious

having a baby in the uk without a residency has it's perils, but also it's gains.

[i]i can hook u up

.

Expired.

,

,

Hi there BIG BUMPER,

i like the way yo go straight to the answer, i am hoping you can help moi

i have a litte question and i am hoping you or anyone else will be able to answer. My issue is this: i had a child in the UK thru NHS in 2008 and i came back to Nigeria in 2009 and workin in a good company. I got the usual brith certificte and things, i endorsed my child on my passport back then. Now i want to apply for a uk visa for my child, should i state that he was born in Nigeria , or should i state that he was born in the UK and face the various questions the UKemabssy may pose regading hospital, private or public bla bla. As there really is no benefit in having your child in the UK except for quality medical care, is there an advantage in stating that he child was born in UK though parents who are not citizens and was thru NHS. p

i look forward to your helpul answer, thanks

londoner22:

Hi there BIG BUMPER,

i like the way yo go straight to the answer, i am hoping you can help moi

i have a litte question and i am hoping you or anyone else will be able to answer. My issue is this: i had a child in the UK thru NHS in 2008 and i came back to Nigeria in 2009 and workin in a good company. I got the usual brith certificte and things, i endorsed my child on my passport back then. Now i want to apply for a uk visa for my child, should i state that he was born in Nigeria , or should i state that he was born in the UK and face the various questions the UKemabssy may pose regading hospital, private or public bla bla. As there really is no benefit in having your child in the UK except for quality medical care, is there an advantage in stating that he child was born in UK though parents who are not citizens and was thru NHS. p

i look forward to your helpul answer, thanks

Sorry, I saw this late All is not lost sha

Like I said earlier, although your child would not have British Citizenship, they would be entitled to everything a citizen is entitled to. If you have no plans to leave the Country, do nothing until . . .(as discussed). If you intend leaving the Country with the baby, and you still have some validity left on your passport, apply for those things. . . (as discussed too)

debosky:

@ BB

so it would be determinant on a discretionary approval, similar to applying for a visa right? Does this really offer any advantages as such? I'm just curious as to how many cases actually get through this discretionary path.

What would this 'convincing' case entail for you to be granted citizenship by discretion?

Check your YIM, left you an offline

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/part8/children/



Children born in the United Kingdom who are not British citizens

304. This paragraph and paragraphs 305-309 apply only to dependent children under 18 years of age who are unmarried and are not civil partners and who were born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983 (when the British Nationality Act 1981 came into force) but who, because neither of their parents was a British Citizen or settled in the United Kingdom at the time of their birth, are not British Citizens and are therefore subject to immigration control. Such a child requires leave to enter where admission to the United Kingdom is sought, and leave to remain where permission is sought for the child to be allowed to stay in the United Kingdom. If he qualifies for entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain under any other part of these Rules, a child who was born in the United Kingdom but is not a British Citizen may be granted entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain in accordance with the provisions of that other part





[size=14pt]Requirements for leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom[/size] as the child of a parent or parents given leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom

305. The requirements to be met by a child born in the United Kingdom who is not a British Citizen who seeks leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom as the child of a parent or parents given leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom are that he:

(i) (a) is accompanying or seeking to join or remain with a parent or parents who have, or are given, leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom; or

(b) is accompanying or seeking to join or remain with a parent or parents one of whom is a British Citizen or has the right of abode in the United Kingdom; or

(c) is a child in respect of whom the parental rights and duties are vested solely in a local authority; and

(ii) is under the age of 18; and

(iii) was born in the United Kingdom; and

(iv) is not leading an independent life, is unmarried and is not a civil partner, and has not formed an independent family unit; and

(v) (where an application is made for leave to enter) has not been away from the United Kingdom for more than 2 years.



Leave to enter [size=14pt]or remain [/size] in the United Kingdom

306. A child born in the United Kingdom who is not a British Citizen and who requires leave to enter or remain in the circumstances set out in paragraph 304 may be given leave to enter for the same period as his parent or parents where paragraph 305 (i)(a) applies, provided the Immigration Officer is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 305 (ii)-(v) is met. [size=14pt]Where leave to remain is sought[/size], the child may be granted leave to remain for the same period as his parent or parents where paragraph 305 (i)(a) applies, provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 305 (ii)-(iv) is met. Where the parent or parents have or are given periods of leave of different duration, the child may be given leave to whichever period is longer except that if the parents are living apart the child should be given leave for the same period as the parent who has day to day responsibility for him.

307. If a child does not qualify for leave to enter or remain because neither of his parents has a current leave, (and neither of them is a British Citizen or has the right of abode), he will normally be refused leave to enter or remain, even if each of the requirements of paragraph 305 (ii)-(v) has been satisfied. However, he may be granted leave to enter or remain for a period not exceeding 3 months if both of his parents are in the United Kingdom and it appears unlikely that they will be removed in the immediate future, and there is no other person outside the United Kingdom who could reasonably be expected to care for him.

308. A child born in the United Kingdom who is not a British Citizen and who requires leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom in the circumstances set out in paragraph 304 may be given indefinite leave to enter where paragraph 305 (i)(b) or (i)(c) applies provided the Immigration Officer is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 305 (ii)-(v) is met. [size=14pt]Where an application is for leave to remain, such a child may be granted indefinite leave to remain [/size] where paragraph 305 (i)(b) or (i)(c) applies, provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 305 (ii)-(iv) is met.

Expired.

@ BB

In essence, one of the parents of the child must be a citizen or have right of abode in the UK, OR the child's parental authority must be vested in the council for indefinite leave to be granted.

If neither of the parents is a citizen/holding right of abode, the child can only be granted leave for the length of time held by one of the parents.

From my reading of the clause, provided b or c applies, that is the only way of getting indefinite leave. I see no mention of discretion which removes the requirement to fulfil at least one of the three clauses in 305 (i) a, b or c. You need to fulfill at least ONE of those clauses to be able to apply under 308.

Based on what I remembered of this story , the mum was holding a visiting visa, hence the child is unlikely to be given leave to remain longer than the validity period of the visa, unless you submit your child's parental authority to the council.

In essence, have the baby, make sure the baby is visiting at least once every two years, then if you have IDL or HSMP then the child automatically can apply as well.

debosky:

@ BB

In essence, one of the parents of the child must be a citizen or have right of abode in the UK, OR the child's parental authority must be vested in the council for indefinite leave to be granted.

If neither of the parents is a citizen/holding right of abode, the child can only be granted leave for the length of time held by one of the parents.

From my reading of the clause, provided b or c applies, that is the only way of getting indefinite leave. I see no mention of discretion which removes the requirement to fulfil at least one of the three clauses in 305 (i) a, b or c. You need to fulfill at least ONE of those clauses to be able to apply under 308.


Based on what I remembered of this story , the mum was holding a visiting visa, hence the child is unlikely to be given leave to remain longer than the validity period of the visa, unless you submit your child's parental authority to the council.

In essence, have the baby, make sure the baby is visiting at least once every two years, then if you have IDL or HSMP then the child automatically can apply as well.

My darlink lolo, haba na wetin, shey na me you dey talk to and you still wan finish all the grammar wey dey dictionary scatter my brain You don forget say I nefa finish Modern 4 before you gi' me belle ni We have to develop a short love code for us to be used for communicating for our eyes only joo

The law only states that children born to parents who are not Citizens or in possession of permanent residency do not qualify for automatic British Citizenship, the keyword used "AUTOMATIC" MEANS THAT THE ROUTE IS NOT FULLY CLOSED TO THEM and whilst still in the Country, these kids are entitled to EVERYTHING a citizen is entitled to, regardless of whatever their parents' status is. . .

. . . This is where those clauses comes in, and the clause that applies in this instance is clause (a)is accompanying or seeking to join or remain with a parent or parents who have, or are given, leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom. Shebi visiting visa comes under "leave to enter" innit Wetin you talk say section 308 do again


Of course it would be foolhardy not to know that one should have some few months left on their visa and also have the wherewithal to pay the Hospital bill cos otherwise this 100% foolproof chance is reduced to 0.005% success rate


Now, if you publicly denounce ever knowing Jennykadry on the frontpage of NL, i will divulge more boo

lastpage:

Thanks, "Iya-mi", how on earth did you keep it in mind?

Did she just called me a busybody and so and so Somebody hold me back

lastpage:


The concerned pikin sef is going to be 2yrs in a few months time

I must once again thank everyone that chipped-in an opinion, you and @gee9, especially.

How does one do a PM on NL?

Quick gather all your coins and if you are one of those who lives with those rats being discussed in the family section who feels no compultion stepping aside for you to pass in your own house, are always on time for breakfast, lunch and dinner, will eat the cat and its collar, etc, berra quickly book an appointment with them that you need them to temporarily vacate your abode for you so you can get access to turn over a few mattresses and couch for those kobos that are lodging in the crevice, YOU MIGHT BE NEEDING IT SOONER THAN YOU MIGHT THINK OH

Busy_body:


My darlink lolo, haba na wetin, shey na me you dey talk to and you still wan finish all the grammar wey dey dictionary scatter my brain You don forget say I nefa finish Modern 4 before you gi' me belle ni We have to develop a short love code for us to be used for communicating for our eyes only joo

That can be arranged

The law only states that children born to parents who are not Citizens or in possession of permanent residency do not qualify for automatic British Citizenship, the keyword used "AUTOMATIC" MEANS THAT THE ROUTE IS NOT FULLY CLOSED TO THEM and whilst still in the Country, these kids are entitled to EVERYTHING a citizen is entitled to, regardless of whatever their parents' status is. . .

. . . This is where those clauses comes in, and the clause that applies in this instance is clause (a)is accompanying or seeking to join or remain with a parent or parents who have, or are given, leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom. Shebi visiting visa comes under "leave to enter" innit Wetin you talk say section 308 do again


Of course it would be foolhardy not to know that one should have some few months left on their visa and also have the wherewithal to pay the Hospital bill cos otherwise this 100% foolproof chance is reduced to 0.005% success rate

The leave the child would get is just for as long as the mother's visa is valid for. Say she had a 2 year multiple entry, and she applies for leave for the child, is the mum going to remain in the UK for those two years on a visiting visa? Leave to remain is what is promised, not indefinite - what happens after the leave expires?

Besides, section 208 refers to IDL, which eventually leads to citizenship after fulfilling the 5 year requirement. Again, if you aren't in possession of 5 years leave to remain or a citizen or have right to abode, it's not a straightfoward situation.

In the 2 year case, they'd have to apply for leave again for the child after 2 years - dunno what would apply at that point. Secondly, the mother's leave would have expired, then what? Unless she has someone she can dump the child with in the UK and visit periodically, I don't see the feasibility of that mode.

Maybe I'm not understanding my firstonly wife properly.

Now, if you publicly denounce ever knowing Jennykadry on the frontpage of NL, i will divulge more boo

Jenny? Who is that?

On the phone so you might have a hard time making head or tail outta this. Good to see you working on those lovecodes, you should be more than halfway through by now, ara mi wa lona, lol.

Now we are getting on the same page when we shoulda been in the same room, heck even in the same bed eons ago, gaddammit, tsk, tsk, tsk. Oh well there is still plenty of time. . .The thing is, the child (who is taken out of the Country's) subsequent re-entries hinges on either parents having a "current/live" visa aka "leave to enter", be it a 3 days duration or a 180 days duration visa, until the child nacks the appropriate age to apply for Indefinite leave to remain. That is why there is even the generous concession made available as such that these children can be taken out of the Country for a maximum of 2 years without losing their status (section 305(v)).

Asides this there is a legal means of making sure all their subsequent re-entries goes smoothly, of course based on section 305(a) i.e. They need to be accompanying a parent . . .like I mentioned somewhere Children who has no intention of being taken out of the Country don't have to do diddly-squat, they are equally entitled to virtually everything a British Citizen is entitled to, THE ONLY THING THEY ARE NOT ENTITLED TO IS THE BRITISH PASSPORT IMMEDIATELY, keyword "immediately".

Again, generally speaking, don't think of not paying Hospital fee nor have a valid visa if you want to go down this route.

Can you repeat what you said about jenny again in bolder fonts, I feel a squint coming up, and can't see clearly, lol.

Thanks, "Iya-mi", how on earth did you keep it in mind?

Shocked Did she just called me a busybody and so and so Angry Somebody hold me back Angry Tongue Cheesy

Nothing like that, Iya-mi, not on my life I was only giving a testament to your "power of recollection and consistency".

lastpage on February 26, 2011, 07:44 PM

The concerned pikin sef is going to be 2yrs in a few months time Grin Shocked

I must once again thank everyone that chipped-in an opinion, you and @gee9, especially.

How does one do a PM on NL?


Quick gather all your coins and if you are one of those who lives with those rats being discussed in the family section Tongue who feels no compultion stepping aside for you to pass in your own house, are always on time for breakfast, lunch and dinner, will eat the cat and its collar, etc, berra quickly book an appointment with them that you need them to temporarily vacate your abode for you so you can get access to turn over a few mattresses and couch for those kobos that are lodging in the crevice, YOU MIGHT BE NEEDING IT SOONER THAN YOU MIGHT THINK OH Cheesy Grin Cheesy

Is this some kind of coded message or was it meant for debosky?
Iya-mi, now you've completely lost me on this one! Walahi

lastpage:

Nothing like that, Iya-mi, not on my life I was only giving a testament to your "power of recollection and consistency".

Yeparipa, she even dey call me ekeyofuro and gbaranmideleru extraordinaire join sef Debosky my lolo, na so una go dey siddon look make she dey this-grace me like so No offience

lastpage:


Is this some kind of coded message or was it meant for debosky?
Iya-mi, now you've completely lost me on this one! Walahi

Mama mi leko It is for you Gerrintouch asap

How do l "PM" you from here?
Forgive my "rudeness" and tell me 

last-page. . . .sora e oh. . . .na my Iyale you dey address so.

I no even know who Jenny is sef.

This is the first time l will come across "Iyawo and Iyale" eating from the same pot!!
The "man-in-the-middle" is in trouble
im doesn't even need a WILL, "all parties" are in agreement!

Dont mind me jare, l must be high on Coke (I mean Cocacola! ) not to remember that it is your Iyale l was discussing with!

I pray for forgiveness, sam-sam.

debosky:

last-page. . . .sora e oh. . . .na my Iyale you dey address so.

Awww, mon darlink, thats why i lobb you t'ori t'orun

debosky:


I no even know who Jenny is sef.

Good, keep repeating this and i might just decide to give you the remaining 97% of my heart, my dearest lolo

lastpage:

This is the first time l will come across "Iyawo and Iyale" eating from the same pot!!
The "man-in-the-middle" is in trouble, Walahi!
im doesn't even need a WILL, "all parties" are in agreement! Dont mind me jare, l must be high on Coke (I mean Cocacola! ) not to remember that it is your Iyale l was discussing with!

I pray for forgiveness, sam-sam.

Ha ha ha ha ha, watch how you mess with my lolo oh I had to fight off Tpia, Jennykadry and Mama gee to win his heart, i am sure you cannot imagine having to share equipment with 3 other chickenheads when it should be for me alone, phew I am glad he is finally mine sha So watch yaself and mind how you address my man oh

^^^^^am in your box!