thehomer

In response to Post 174, no doubt science will keep pushing the boundaries. If everybody remains dogmatic to their religious books then the world would never progress. But as science doesn't have the answers to everything at present, religion and science can work together.

I aplogise if my views appear to be forced onto people, that is not my intention. I was just trying to offer an opposing view.

I cannot answer the question "what is the purpose of life?". To my knowledge nobody can, which is why many people are lead to believe in a God.

Ultimately he is the creator by whatever name we call him. We should accept that every one is entitled to their view and at least express it without condemnation, even if we don't agree with it.

[thehomer on Yesterday at 11:46:33pm][And this demonstrates what?]

It demonstrates that no matter how many question science answers there are still more questions that science doesn't have answers for.

[thehomer on Yesterday at 11:46:33pm][Now that is what is called the argument from infinite regress that's number 51 on this web-page.
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

No we cannot conclude that there must be a creator. Neither does this give us a reason to worship this creator. For all you know, this creator may not care about you.
]

In your opinion what does this conclude?

You may not choose to believe in a creator whilst others do. Who is right? We all have a right to believe in whatever we choose without being condemned by others.

[thehomer on Yesterday at 11:46:33pm][Can any body of knowledge give a good answer to that question without prompting other questions till you end up in an absurdity? Sure you can form grammatically correct sentences but that does not make it a legitimate question.
]

Many people have asked the same question. You may not believe it is a legitimate question but many others do.

I think that some of the comments are rather proving benodic's point. Arguing about what is said in the Bible and Qur'an is developing into aggressive tit for tat. The original thread was trying to determine whether God and Allah are one and the same. This thread is developing into point scoring about who knows what within the holy books.

In my opinion God and Allah is one and the same. He is the creator of the universe and we all have the right to worship him in whatever fashion we choose without condemnation from others.

The holy books were developed to provide answers to the mysteries of the world. As science challenges and disproves some of the scriptures in the holy books (ie. the world was created in seven days) perhaps there should be a need for a new holy book (don't ask me to do it). The world and life moves on and if we remain dogmatic to everything that is written in the holy books then we risk getting left behind. Science does not have the answers to eveything and as I have mentioned in another thread nobody can answer the question "who or what put the atom in place that exploded, creating the universe?" We have to conclude that it was a creator; God, Allah, Jehovah or whatever name you care to give him. This in mind perhaps we need a new holy book that takes into account what science does know.

Perhaps we can continue this thread with friendship and love, not aggression

Science does not have the answer to all questions. The scientific theory of the creation of the universe; the big bang theory that the universe was created by a massive nuclear explosion derived from one single atom.

Question. Who or what put the atom there?

A little child can ask a question and its mother will duly answer. The child will ask "why?". The mother will answer and to her reply the child will again ask "why?". Eventually the mother will run out of answers.

Likewise science will find answers to how the universe was created, but we can keep coming back with the question "what or who put that there?"

We can only conclude that there must be a creator. Whether we call that creator God, Allah, Jehovah or Boogleboogleboogle it doesn't matter. How we choose to worship that creator again it doesn't really matter.

Just one last question, can science answer the question "what is the purpose of life?"

Do we have to be religious scholars to make our points of view known. We do not have to be scholars to practice our religion, share love and know what is right or wrong. Sometimes having a deep knowledge of what our holy books are trying to tell us blinds us from reality. Arguments insue over one small passage in the scriptures.

Ultimately we need to practice faith and love and live our lives doing good. This can be done whether we are christians, muslims, buddhists or hindu.

Again, we all believe in a creator whether we call him God, Allah, Jehovah. I do not mean to belittle scholars of religion, I just feel we do not need to be theologians to have a view on religion.

Great article and rather demonstrates our points as well.

thanks for that RSA

Beejay

Sorry my reply above was in response to your reply. I don't understand where "flutung" came from.

Beejay

You ask whether it is just religion that is causing the problems in the north. It is not religion that causes violence and terrorism. It is people. People say they do it in the name of religion but it is actually their lack of tolerance, lack of love and lack of compassion to human kind that causes wars. All religions try to promote peace but unfortunately some people misinterpret what their holy books say. Chistians are just as capable of creating violence in the name of religion as Muslims or any other religion, they too have divisions amongst their different sectors.

Whilst it is possible to try to understand and equip ourselves with knowledge about other religions, it is impossible to learn about all other relgion. Better we understand our own faiths but allow and accept that everybody has the right to choose the faith they wish to follow.

I really like what Benodic is trying to say. He is obviously preaching love and promoting acceptance between all religions. Doing good for others and living a clean life does wonders for the soul. We all know when we have sinned. We feel guilty and struggle to live with what we have done. By giving love and doing the right thing is what creates harmony within ourselves. It doesn't matter if we are Christian, Muslim, Atheist or Aborigine, we know in our hearts what is right and good. How we choose to follow our path to God is for us to choose alone. Yes, as a Christian if we follow Jesus because he says that "I am the only path to God" that is absolutely fine but if others choose to follow a different path that is fine too.

Remember that Mohammed was born after Jesus so when Jesus proclaimed that "I am the only path to God" he was stating what he believed at that time.

Benodic

This is very much like I was trying to say except you put it far more eloquently. Well done

There is only one creator, whether we call that creator God, Allah or anything that other religions choose to call him. We all have a right to follow the path to our creator in which ever fashion suits our hearts and should be free to do so without condemnation.

Violence in the name of religion is surely polar opposites to what religions are trying to achieve. Ultimately we all have the same aim, to find our path to our creator whether we call him God, Allah or whatever.

This is why I say that wars and violence aren't started by religions but by people in the name of religion. Both the Qu'ran and the Bible promote peace. True muslims and christians can and will live in harmony with each other and with other religions.

Gandhi protested against British rule in India through peaceful non co-operation. He protested without violence. In order to promote peace amongst all religions, perhaps the people that want to make a difference should find away to make peaceful protest against the fanatics.

The comments are very passionate and well thought out. But I ask the question, if the three main religions were to be wiped out, what would be their replacements?

The three abrahamic religions are the largest religions in the world. The vast majority that practice these faiths are peace loving individuals. Undoubtedly there are a minority who are egotistical and their egos drive them to violent acts. It is not God that is evil; rather, misguided groups and individuals who misinterpret the word of God and create wars and acts of terrorism in the name of religion. Remember, it is not religion that causes war and violence; it is people using religion as an excuse for their actions.

There are many smaller religions throughout the world and most of these have something positive to offer. The Aborigines of Australia have their own beliefs yet though their ideas can be seen on the surface as fantasy, a deeper study reveals that their beliefs about the creation of the world very much mirrors that of evolutionists theories.

Ultimately all religions have one common ground, the belief in a creator. By accepting that we all have a right to worship our creator in whichever manor we see fit means that there should be no reason for wars and violence among different religions.

History is full off wars and battles supposedly in the name of religion. Both Islam and Christianity are reputedly peaceful faiths so despite what history tells us, we should all be able to live in harmony with each other. Whether it be Allah or God, he is still the one creator that we believe in and as such we are therefore of similar minds. To my way of thinking there is more than one path to God so whether one chooses the path of Mohammed or Jesus, we are all aiming for the same thing. We all have a right to decide which path to choose without pressures from other people.

I live in the United Kingdom. I have been hearing about the violence between Christians and Muslims in Nigeria. Can somebody explain why the two faiths cannot live peacefully together?

I've read through many of the posts on this forum with tremendous interest. I sit at home in the United Kingdom on my Toshiba laptop with a Dell computer in my office. I have a Zanussi washing machine in my kitchen along with a Panasonic microwave oven. Virtually nothing in my house is made in Britain.

United Kingdom makes nothing. Our manufacturing industry is on the decline. We were once the proud nation of the industrial revolution; now our coal mining is non-existent, our steel industry is seeping out abroad and even the car manufacturers are American or Japanese.

A bit like the oil industry in Nigeria isn't it?

All owned by foreign companies, yet Nigerians want a slice of the action and will kidnap to make their point.

The truth is the economy of Great Britain is in decline. We have been in the deepest recession since the 1940’s. We were one of the first countries to go into recession and one of the last to come out. It could be argued that we still haven’t emerged. For decades now the economies of Germany and Far East Asia have overtaken ours. Even China and India are rapidly catching up with ours. These countries manufacture. They produce goods. Great Britain doesn’t anymore.

Doesn’t this tell you something?

Companies like Zinox may not be perfect. They may well be assemblers only. But their business is in Nigeria, trying to produce something for Nigeria and aid the Nigerian economy. If a company waited until they had the perfect product before releasing it onto the market, they could wait forever. So yes, by all means complain about the product if you find it less than perfect. This way they can improve on the product. But also support them as they strive to make the Nigerian economy grow.

It is easy to look selfishly at the fact that the computer brought is not ideal. After all a lot of hard earned cash has been spent on it. But taking the personal out of the equation, supporting companies like Zinox is helping the Nigerian economy to grow and in the long term this is helping the future of Nigeria.

So why, as a UK citizen do I take such an interest in what is happening in Nigeria?

Six years ago I worked in Ibadan on the construction of a tobacco factory. Another foreign investment. It was a fascinating visit and I have developed a great deal of contacts since. I now believe in the Nigerian government’s policy of making the nation one of the top twenty technological nations by the year 2020.

Companies such as Zinox are driving that ambition forward and who knows, perhaps by the year 2020 the Nigerian economy may have outgrown that of the United Kingdom.