MikeCZAR:
There's currently no "cooperation" between SA and Turkey in terms of weapons dev.

The SA turret was selected by Malaysia, Denel is just one of the sub-contractors. The turrets will be delivered within a period of 7 years to Malaysia.

SA and Turkey have close defence ties though.

Cadet training is nothing special, you can find Turkey, Nigerian or even South Africans cadets in Chile or somewhere else in the world.

No that is right, no cooperation in weapons development but cooperation in being subcontractors.

However there is a branch of the electronics defence company Aselsan in Pretoria, called Aselsan South Africa (ASA)

mzilakazi:




Bwahahahaha… stop all your monkey games. Behind that screen stand a Nigerian with a flat head, big nose and lips pretending to be from Turkey. You are a Turkish but you couldn't see that those people on that picture were 100% Somalians. How the hell can you make such a mistake? You are a real mumu.

Hehehe, you got me. You must be one of those people who still believe the world is flat. At some of the pictures I can see eastern Africans (must be Somali), they look a little bit different than West Africans and are a bit smaller. Also North Africans have more Arabic features. But I have to admit that I really cannot see the physical difference between Nabibians and Kenyan's for instance or many other Africans. But vice versa it's the same, I heard from many Africans all you white people look the same.

mzilakazi:



Since when are Somalians Nigerians? I know you wished so hard if they were Nigerians but you bounced. Tell me out of all smart countries did you wish Turkey would have trained your forces?

Why would I wish? I am not African, I know for fact that my country is training Nigerian cadets as well. We have also good relations with South Africa, in fact our T_129 has been tested for hot summer conditions in S. Africa. Also our newly developped anti-ship missile dubbed "ATMACA" was tested at Denel's Overberg test range in May 2014.

And there are defence cooperations like the IFV's for Malaysia with S. African Denel turrets on Turkish Pars vehicles:

mzilakazi:
Somalian Air force cadets in Turkey.

Somalians turned Nigerian Air force cadets in Turkey.



http://somalianewsroom.com/2014/10/24/putting-the-puzzle-together-what-does-the-future-hold-for-somalias-military-forces/somali-air-force-cadets-in-turkey/

Very strange that Somaliannewsroom claim them air force cadets, they all wear the land forces uniforms.

Here is a picture with 3 African cadets in Turkish uniforms from left to right: white = navy, green = land forces, blue = airforce

Henry120:


That's a typical butt-hurt South-African!

I think he is confused by the uniforms and thinking those uniforms are Somali uniforms, they are not!

Those uniforms are all Turkish uniforms, it doesn't matter from which countries the military students are they all wear the standard Turkish military cadet uniform.
White uniform = navy cadet
Green uniform = land forces cadet
blue uniform = airforces cadet

Centrifude:


www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1505103&page=28

Those are definitely Somali Cadets. There's a source to prove it, it has multiple pictures of Somalis wearing that Uniform.

So you and @agaugust can just sit the f*ck down.

I already said I don't know for sure, there is no need for rude language.

I cannot tell from which countries they are as currently there are many military cadets from many African countries in Turkey: Gambiya, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Mali, Nigeria, Algeria, Gana, Ethiyopia, Chad, Zimbabwe, Morroco and Somali are the main countries having cadets in Turkey. The guys from the pictures IMO are not the same persons, although there are indeed also many Somalians in Turkey getting scolarships and admitted to military academies.

For the last 7-8 years Turkey placed a special attention to Africa, opening many embassies making diplomatic relations and the Turkish airlines has probably become the major airline that is flying to most of the African countries now.

[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/data/P1120961.JPG[/img]

And to answer on the discussion whether these are Nigerian students I cannot really confirm but I know that Nigerian military students are trained in Turkey and the uniforms they are wearing are Turkish cadet uniforms. So it is impossibile to tell from uniform whether they are Nigerian of Somali, but they do not look like Ethiopians and Somalians to me (again I am not sure)

pavri:



T-129 Atak has a protection against 12,7mm AP munitions in cockpit and motor section. Composite rotors are able to withstand against 12,7mm munitions as well.

Atak is inside of light attack helicopter group like Eurocopter tiger and USA AH-1W so Comparing Atak with those copters are more convenient. It is max. take off weights make copters light/heavy class. If costumer requires more agile, manouvrable and active copter on highly mountainous/ difficult terrain conditions to be used against various type of enemy assets, Then It is correct choice to go for light attack helicopters. Europe and Turkey prefers light attack helicopters, While USA hosts both Light and heavy class.

In additions, In terms of power to weight ratio, Atak is one of the most powerfull attack helicopter when It is compared with equivalents Tiger/AH-1W. That's why Turkish pilots call T129 as "Ferrari of sky". Even If Atak is classified as a light attack helicopter, She is able to cope with heavy attack helicopters in terms of some performance specifications such as range, endurance, rate of climb, speed. If you check out some T129 videos, You will see How agile and quick responsible It is.

At present, Turkey commenced trials of T-129 B1 variant which is a multi-role variant (Anti-tank/COIN/Surveillance mission on one platform that 360 degree covered by Electronic warfare sensors and computers to survive against coming missile).



Atak uses two different Anti-tank missile called Mizrak-UIIR(IIR guided fire forget) and Mizrak-UL (Lazer guided) (which is developed by Roketsan) against heavy armoured units . Mizrak tandem warhead is able to penetrate 1100mm+ RHA armours. IIR variant is more expensive than lazer guided variant, since IIR has fire/forget and top attack modes. Atak is able to carry 8 Mizrak missiles but in accordance with mission requirements, It can be increased to 12. It is a satisfied number of anti-tank missile payload When compared with AH-1W and Eurocopter Tiger.



For less armoured units, Turkish missile maker developed a cheaper/smaller precision strike missile called Cirit. The equivalents are under development phase so Cirit is the first 2,75 inch semi active lazer guided missile system of the World and Turkey offers this missile to costumers. United Arab emirated ordered 10,000 Cirit missiles from Turkey.



Out of those missiles, Atak is able to carry 76 unguided rockets. No need to mention Air to air missile payload.

Avionic systems are highly advanced and dijital. T-129 Atak B1 variant is offered with obstacle detection system, lazer based wire detection system and moving map options. MMW radar will be an option since It rises the cost but offers a serious strategic capability to costumers for land target detection/engagement options. Central computer is checking everything instead of you and when copter is under a danger, EW sensors receive the type of data and inform pilots regarding it and automatically generate a counter attack thanks to jammer, chaff, flare munitions.

STM moving map/Realistic 3D navigation mode
[img]http://focusflite.stm.com.tr/upload/Node/1817/xpics/s5.p1.jpg[/img]

Helmet mounted display system is developed by Aselsan. It reflects all neccessary flight parameters to pilots, While control 20mm gathling gun and advanced electro-optic Flir called AselFlir-300T with head movements. AselFlir-300T is able to identify and detect a target with a range from 25km.

[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/cache/data/Resimler/Resimler/aselsan/avci/atakkask2-600x400.jpg[/img]

BTW, Munition stores hosts 600 20mm munitions, not 500.

Atak production documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DFI3fNVqYI

Atak in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9M2SXVaKGY

Nigerian pilot students with T-129 Atak in Turkey
[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/data/P1120961.JPG[/img]

Hello all,

I saw this forum by coincidence and joined. I am from Turkey and when I saw a discussion going on about whether the Rooivalk or T_129 is better I wanted to join and correct a few common mistakes.


Firstly someone remarked that Turkey did not chose the Rooivalk because she technically failed, this is not true. The Rooivalk and Italian A_129 where shortlisted in the Turkish tender to provide a platform on which Turkey wanted to create a new chopper with complete renewed avionics, selfdefence suites, weapons pack etc. etc.

The idea was to build on an existing proven platform to reduce development time, costs, overruns and delays. The Rooivalk as one of the shortlisted helicopters that technically fullfilled the requirements was not selected due to dissagreements with Denel on the prize of the chopper, not on technical details. The Rooivalk is a fine platform.

Reacting to the ongoing discussion whether Rooivalk or the T_129 would win is a bit strange as it is not that the helicopters but the weaponspack on board determines the result. Usually the most modern chopper has the advantage, just ask yourself whether an Apache blk II or blkIII would be better. The blkIII with the newer avionics, selfprotection suite and wider weapon capabilities would be ofcourse in advantage.

So I think it is similar with other helicopters, I don't know in how far the Rooivalk has received upgrades but the T_129 is brandnew with the T_129A model in production now, very soon the T_129B1 (2016) will be taken into production and around 2018 the B2 model. There will be mainly differences in the capabilities and selfprotection suites. B2 model will carry the MildarII (MMW radar) and the latest HEHSIS (helicopter selfprotection suite) which is recently installed and tested on two S-70 blackhawk helicopters. It's the only selfprotection suite in the world as far as I know that makes use of AESA antenna's. To be short the T_129 is really using the latest technology that exist which gives her quite some advantages and unique abilities.


Last I want to say is all modern atack helicopters are quite fine, it's the way how effective the user army use them that determines their strength, example: no any other army than the US army can use the Apache blk III to her full efectiveness, cos only the US has the full infrastructure that supports the helicopter to her full extend.