.

Etinosa123456:


See tears... She's unable to prove that Deji osupa wasn't removed

Does that mean you accept that Benin conquered Akure and installed a new Deji

Lol. I have once schooled your brother earlier on the term called onus probandi. Familiarize yourself with that and stamp that with the following:

You are not allowed to randomly bring up a claim and then insist that it is your interlocutor who must prove otherwise.

No it is you who brought up the claim who that the burden to prove your case.

Otherwise, people will leave their homes and return with many burden to prove themselves ‘innocent’ because some random crack-heads are busy having fun accusing people without any responsibility to prove their own accusation.

I hope this summary should help you catch the strap. So, I’d be waiting for your evidence

But still you will have to demonstrate how the supposed evidence helps prove your case that Benin Kingdom ruled these Kingdoms from the corroboration of these kingdoms themselves.

Etinosa123456:
Energy dey to search iken but no energy to search Deji

.. Na wa oo

I brought up Iken and I had to disgrace you for your lie that no Bini by such name even via a quick google search.

But for your so-called Orodje Osupa, you brought that up. So refer below for the response.

Etinosa123456:
Ur Claims is that the fact that Benin never conquered Akure is because they didn't corroborate Akure accounts

That's why I'm referring u to read what happened to Deji osupa...

if u mention me without saying how Deji osupa reign on the throne, I won't reply u

It is dumb to refer to me elsewhere in the middle of a discussion.

Bring forward your evidence and prove how it helps your case. That’s the point of a debate in the first place.

I could as well pretend that you should read up everything I’ve been saying by yourself, and as such I have made my case.

How such excuse is not dumb to you is beyond me.

Etinosa123456:

Omo see lies...

Ur Akintoye says The Oba of Benin was regarded as a “brother” to some Ekiti kings. [b]Paying tribute to the Oba of Benin was out of the question. Forming a coalition to fight him was also out of the question — and so, for the most part, was making even solo preparations to fight him.

So how does this translate to an invasion or Akintoye is just dumb

Blood of Zacharrias! I think I’m convinced that catarrh is what you have stuffed in your brain.

So, I have to break this down again? Na wa oo.

(1) Akintoye wrote based on received Ekiti traditions that:

Some Ekiti kings consider Benin king as “brother”.

Etinosa’s deduction: This means that Benin never invaded Ekiti land.

Me breaking things down to his level: No it means SOME consider him to be “brother”; and even if all of them did, that doesn’t eliminate invasion and fightings.

Yorubas people fought themselves, and Benin Kingdom rose against itself in civil war.

(2) Akintoye wrote based on received Ekiti traditions that: Paying tribute to the Benin king was out of the question.
Etinosa’s deduction: This means that Benin kingdom never invaded Ekiti land.

Me breaking things down to his level: No it means that Benin Kingdom never ruled this territory as an overlord.

(3) Akintoye wrote based on received Ekiti traditions that: Ekiti never fought Benin in coalition with others but only did so solo.

Etinosa’s deduction: This means that Benin Kingdom never invaded Ekiti land.

Me breaking things down to his level: No it means that Ekiti fought Benin kingdom only solo but never in coalition with others.

Sighs!

And the same account where our dullard Benin student quotes from had the following opening:

“ ... the Benin expeditions into Owo, Ekiti and Akoko....”

Etinosa’s deduction: This means that Benin Kingdom never invaded Ekiti.

Me breaking things down to his level: No, it means the exact opposite — i.e. that Benin Kingdom actually did.

Sighs again!

Etinosa123456:
So did the internet ban u from searching for Deji osupa

Because it is dumb of you to expect me to prove your dumb case for your dumb self.

I hope this answers your dumb question.

Etinosa123456:
If according to akintoye most ekiti pple never saw Benin armed men... then how did they have an invasion

Now after being exposed as a pathological liar, we just have to pretend that you didn’t make any such allegation against me claiming that I said Ekiti wasn’t invaded by Binis. Inferiority complex gallore! I pardon you for that, you’re a Bini. Lying is essential. Benin kingdom needs it.

Having said, Akintoye never said anywhere in that quotation that most people never saw Benin armed men.

Rather he said the quote opposite — that is, most generation saw one of such invasions.

To quote again:

“... no generation of Ekiti people witnessed two of such, most generations saw none.”

Me: Why do you love to lie, Etinosa.

Etinosa: What do you expect? I be confirm Bini boy.

Me: Understandable

Etinosa123456:

Well I just googled iken and saw nothing... when I'm less busy.. I'll dig deeper
Why don't u just search Deji osupa.. just try to scratch the surface

Talking about googling and seeing nothing.

Here is Iken attached, so you lied. Now go read about his death using your method of providing evidence.

Etinosa123456:

Why are u contradicting ur self like dis

Quite already. You’ve just Benin exposed.

Benin expeditions into Ekiti is not the same as Benin didn’t conduct invasion into Ekiti. In fact, those are opposite statements.

Uncle, why are you such a shameless liar? Answer oo.

Etinosa123456:

See contradiction

And there was a caught

Did you actually have to resort to pathological lying?? You began disgracing yourself publicly in the hope that you will save-face.

The statement you keep bringing up has the following words:

“... there was not much of actual fighting in the Benin expeditions into Owo, Ekiti and Akoko”.

Yet this means to you that the Binis did not invade Ekiti. I have done a huge damage to your existence tonight.

Etinosa123456:
But Tao.... why haven't u found out who is Deji osupa..its not supposed to be that Hard na

I have asked you to stop hiding your incompetence by asking me to go and read a story.

The whole point of having a debate is to provide your relevant evidence which proves your case when challenged to dos so.

It is irresponsible to say well my father has the evidence online so go read it there.

Etinosa123456:
Benin was embarrassingly defeated
Source;U supposed believe me na

I could choose to play your games and similarly ask you to go and read up on the story of the top Benin military commands names Iken to see how he was wasted by the eastern Yorubas in one of the Benin invasions.

Etinosa123456:
Benin didn't invade ekiti

Minutes later

U are not even consistent with your lies

You seem to be a pathological liar who believes his own lie.

Or you’re very confident that your fellow Binis are dullards and they would believe anything even with the contrary evidence is starring hard at them.

Quote out the line where I wrote that Benin did not invade any Ekiti, you Bini slave-liar??

They invaded just as Aje invaded Benin Kingdom in a normal war context.

Only in the minds of an inferior dulllard is invasion equal to imperial rule.

Etinosa123456:

So are u now saying it contradicts ur akintoye work or u just want to be foolish

https://www.nairaland.com/6013716/why-does-ooni-ife-make/3#93968897

You seem to be a grade “A” dullard. The attachment you keep posting contains two basic information:

(1) That Benin were clothed by the Yorubas whom knew about clothes long enough.

(2) And that Benin invaded some of these Yoruba kingdoms.

Where did you read about anything contradicting the other ?? Wipe the tears from your eyes so you can see clearly.
.
.
.
Having said that, your problem seem to be that you continue to equate invasion to mean one and the same thing as rule. No, such equation is dumb and can only come from a dullard.

But even if you want to be dumb, then at least be consistent with it and treat Aje’s invasion of Benin kingdom in equal dum light.

In other words, you should concede stupidly that since Aje from Ibadan invaded Benin Kingdom and raided it, then Benin Kingdom was once ruled by Ibadan.

The dumbness here stinks actually.

Etinosa123456:

Are u so quick to forget that u said that Benin didn't invade ekiti
I'm beginning to think you have amnesia

Benin didn’t invade Ekiti??

Where did you read that from? Quote the specific line, or attach an highlighted screenshot.


My point has been that invasion is not imperial rule, otherwise Aje’s invasion would have meant that Ibadan ruled Benin kingdom.

Invasion simply means fighting was brought to ones doorstep, and in some of the cases Benin was embarrassingly defeated.

Don’t feel too inferior and desperate, lad. Or tears seem to have flooded your eyes??

Etinosa123456:

Me:Up to 5 historians even ur best historians accepted the fact that eastern Yoruba was under Benin influence
Tao: No they are all false... Unless they come from my daddy Akintoye

Wow.... Suddenly the best historian of Yoruba history is wrong because u want to be right

More strangely ..U believe oral fiction....

Well.. Samuel Johnson and Oguntuyi think otherwise ... Perhaps don't u think Samuel Johnson wouldn't be wise enough to know which tradition was lieing against his culture and trash them?... But no... He documented it because it was true... Read an excerpt from him once again

_{While northern and western Yorubaland contended with invasion from the Fulani and Dahomeans, the kingdoms of the East were suffering from the renewal of Benin Westward expansion. this apparently began in the early years of the 19th century during the reign of Oba obanosa. First part of Owo kingdom was brought under the obedience of Benin.Then in the reign of Oba osemwede, Akure was reconquered and Ekiti overrun. The Benin forces at a time established a base at Otun and installed a new Deji to watch over the interest of the ekiti colony}
Sources Oguntuyi pp36-41, S.Johnson(1921)pp 390-1, S. Johnson(1921) pp455, R. L and J. Lander(1832)p315



Obviously u don't understand especially if u haven't read abt Deji osupa

Is this an evidence that you’ve failed to engage the refutations and thus have to run back to your already refuted square-one??

To refute this again I would simply post the link from the point where this particular comment of yours got debunked. You may then read on from there again ad-infinitum.

Now take it from the link below and match forward from there till you arrive again at the beginning adinfinitum:

https://www.nairaland.com/6013716/why-does-ooni-ife-make/2#93963857

See desperation and inferiority complex. Nonsense and Dapper came to Benin.

Etinosa123456:


To the clown that posted this when it favors him and reject it when it doesn't

Lol. The attachment simply shows that:

(1) Yorubas clothed the Binis

(2) And that there were invasion from Benin into the eastern Yoruba territory.

Nowhere does it talk about the Benin ruling over these Yoruba kingdoms unless you equate wars to mean ruling people.

Moreover, Aje invaded Benin kingdom and took captives. Are you prepared then to accept that Ibadan ruled Benin Kingdom?

Has desperation and inferiority complex really done so much damage to your brain?

gregyboy:

[s]You really want to do this,

Am asking do you want me to interfere.... Watch your mouth i i didnt come for you i came for my edo brothers

I have wasted you enough.....

Anyway i am still waiting for my evidence

My edo brother would not let you be with their ogiso moonlight tales[/s]

gregyboy:
[s]TAO11 am still waiting for your evidence

I hope you havnt forgetting

My benins brothers are disturbing you from my assignment, but find spare time to reply me,


Am currently reading the debate i promise not to interfere[/s]

gayboy, fist of all I’ve successful rendered you a nuisance on Nairaland to the extent that you’re now being denied by your own Edo people. Interesting.

Secondly, what you term as “waiting for evidence” is actually a further evidence of your slowness and mental retardation.

You dumb request is similar to requesting that you need a picture of your brain in order to really believe that you have a brain.

And this despite the different independent doctors’ reports confirming to you, after series of tests, that there is some organ (called brain — although useless) sitting right within your cranium.

Does one really have to break-down your dumbness to you before you realize it?

Are you that dull that you can’t really figure out how dull you are ??

I warned that you should stop disgracing your innocent family all over Nairaland.

Etinosa123456:

Just the real Akure report that says that Benin didn't defeat Akure is what I'm asking for...

Which is one is “real Akure report” ?? Fraudulent people be making up words.

There are 17th century reports. And even ur excerpt says that Dapper was present when Benin invaded Akure but without guns... But u claim it to be Benin fiction..

Dangers of lying:

First of all, I never said any such stupid thing.

Secondly, Dapper never stepped outside of the Netherlands throughout his entire life.

Oya post the real story of akure ...

Stop making up words for the sake of fraud?? What is the real story of Akure ?? — Do you mean an account from Akure side of the story which does not corroborate the Benin fictions??

If u cant.. I'll take it as u have nothing to say and are only trying to waste my time

Says a joke who said Dapper was at Benin and witnessed Benin ruling Yorubas.

Says a dullard who implied that Ibadan ruled over Benin Kingdom.

Says a dingbat who failed to support his Benin stories with corroboration from the actual kingdoms involved.

Etinosa123456:

[s]Lol... The same way u deny losing this argument is also the same way u lament when someone leaves u to roam abt in ur foolishness
So when will u post the original Akure history or the Akure man hasn't start publishing it yet[/s]

Evidence that e enter die.

Etinosa123456:
U tend to confuse ur self...

So where is the complete and original Akure history... no time for any long speech... I want to go to bed

Which one did you see yet which denies Benin fictions??

Once you acknowledge the one you’ve seen, I will move to the next one. Waiting.

So there were actually 17th century reports(most likely eyewitness reports) on the conquering of akure but they are not true because they didn't go to meet the invaded... This is the biggest meaning of foolishness

First of all, If Dapper’s 17th century account is what you call eyewitness report, then I’ve been discussing Calculus with a preschooler. Lad, Dapper (who was the first to record such account) never left Europe all his life.

But that’s not the big deal, the big deal is that his account was based on hearsay information brought back by visitors to Benin.

And if you must claim that any of the visitors witnessed the supposed rule of these kingdom by Benin, then you must be willing to also provide your evidence —Onus probandi.

Moreover, are still insisting that invasion and fighting = imperial rule??

Are Bini this dull?

Do you then admit that Ibadan ruled Benin kingdom because of the invasion of Benin kingdom by Aje which is admitted by the indigenous Edo’s people as documented by Bradbury.

Etinosa123456:
are u scared to read abt Deji osupa?

Lol. Fuel has finished.

Okay I will read it of course from some random internet blogs, and that should suffice as enough evidence that the story truly emanated from the Akure kingdom, and confirms Benin rule. Lol.

The bitter tears of a dying sore loser. Fair enough! Lol.

Why do you lose daily?? I wonder how you sleep!

Etinosa123456:

Tao: Akure wasn't conquered by Benin
Me: but it was documented in Robert Smith work
Tao: it's False, it doesn't corroborate with akure tradition
Me:But Oguntuyi and Samuel Johnson supported it
Tao:its a lie, they didn't hear it from the realll akure
Me:can somebody be this foolish

You keep confirming that you’ve been reading from the back of your phone.

I have stated the original 17th century sources which popularized the Bini account.

I’m then quite shocked that you still regard it a rocket science that Johnson’s work or Oguntuyi’s among several later works has the account.

Listen up lad, an account isn’t true for the simple reason that it is found within certain books. Rather, it is true because the actual sources to which it relates confirms it to be so.

The similitude of this is that: Bradbury’s account of Yorubas invasion of Benin kingdom is not true merely because it is found in Bradbury’s work.

Rather, it is true because it was collected by Bradbury from the actual people said to have been in invaded.

I refuse to accept that you’re too dull to comprehend this.

Having said that, I have posted an example of such non-corroboration from one of the Yoruba Kingdoms involved. Refer above.

Have you any such direct account from the said Yoruba kingdoms which corroborate the Benin fictions ??

Moreover, do you still equate invasion to mean imperial rule so that Yorubas can begin jubilation their long-forgotten rule if Benin kingdom ?? Lol.

Yorubas unlike Binis aren’t dumb and insecure actually.

Now to the accounts from these kingdoms as promised:

Watch this space! But before then, many of the fightings which ensued from the Benin invasions involved heavy casualties on both sides — and with Benin being completely routed and defeated on different occasions.

Modified:
”[/size]On the whole then, there was not much of actual fighting in the Benin expeditions into Owo, Ekiti and Akoko. An interesting perspective on this subject was given by the Oore of Otun to this author during visits to the Otun palace in the 1970s.* According to the Oore, the true picture was that Ekiti kingdoms did not really see Benin as an enemy. The comings of Benin’s armed men were few and very far between; no generation of Ekiti people witnessed two of such, most generations saw none. The Oba of Benin was regarded as a “brother” to some Ekiti kings. Paying tribute to the Oba of Benin was out of the question. Forming a coalition to fight him was also out of the question — and so, for the most part, was making even solo preparations to fight him. In Ado and Akure where bloody battles occurred, there were a special factors at work.” ~ S.A. Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, Amalion Publishing, 2010, p.216-217.


Here you have an account emanating directly from the conferences region, and which in clear terms contradict the Bini fantasies.

Provide me with such direct account from the same region which supports the Benin fiction of imperial rule.

Etinosa123456:
So OmoOlofin... What abt the assignment I gave u ... Have u done it... Have searched abt Deji osupa and his son... Or u are waiting for the real Akure version

You’re hiding your incompetence and shame behind the word “assignment”. Lol.

If everyone pretended to be giving assignments, I could have argued (if that’s even an argument) that if you visit the palace of these Yoruba kingdoms, then you would find them refuting the Benin claims. Lol.

But obviously, go find my evidence for me is that’s obviously a dumb argument .

And for the umpteenth time, don’t you think the titles of these kings should have made them Orodje, etc. just as you have among the Itsekiri-Yoruba people ??

Etinosa123456:


Lol...U are posting Bradbury work.... Does that also make Robert Smith work valid....?

The difference: Bradbury collected his account from the said people who were invaded. Not from 3rd party hearsay.

Gosh! I’m discussing with a pre-schooler.

Etinosa123456:
U want to hear from Both sides... Apparently Samuel Johnson and Oguntuyi were siding with the Benin

Etinosa123456:
Also... When u are through with Deji osupa... Read abt Deji odundun... Then tell me how it contradicts Benin history
OmoOlofin is really expecting to hear a truthful story from a conquered village

One would have thought their full names would be Orodje Osupa, etc.

Etinosa: These places are conquered.

Me: Evidence ??

Etinosa: Well, the Binis made that claim, and some Yoruba writers documented it although they didn’t get it from the said kingdom.

Me: A Bini dullard simply being himself.

I am glad you’ve impliedly admitted to having no evidence of corroboration from these Yoruba kingdoms.

Etinosa123456:
Lol...why don't u give us the full copy of Akure tradition ...lets judge and compare...

I’m not sure what you’re on about here.

You’ve failed to demonstrate any corroboration of the Benin story from these Yoruba kingdoms.

So, it is my duty to now demonstrate from the traditions of these regions that the imperial rule from Benin was a fiction.

And I will do just that. Be patient.

Benin history doesn't say that it was invaded by any ogedengbe...

So since u are making assertions... U can as well post a Benin account saying that Benin was invaded by ogedengbe...

Lol. You’re trying hard to be sly, but you fail to realize that you’re dealing with an individual who is many steps ahead of you.

I mentioned two invasions of Benin kingdom from the Yoruba country — Aje’s invasion from Ibadan and Ogedengbe’s invasion from Ileha.

For Aje’s invasion refer to Bradbury’s “Benin Kingdom and the Edo Speaking People’s of Southern Nigeria”.

For Ogedengbe’s invasion refer to Ognomo’s ”Constructing a Precolonial Owan Chronology and Dating Framework”.

So, do you still stand on the dumb idea that invasion = imperial rule ?? Sighs! I can’t believe I had to ask this question.

And as well... U should also provide a Benin account that said Benin were still roaming naked as at 19th century... since u want to be mad

Okay I will provide that as well.

Etinosa123456:
OmoOlofin... Why don't u post the complete akure tradition let us know...

This is as dumb as asking anyone to provide Benin traditions.

While that request is dumb and vague there are clear denials from these kingdoms which refute the supposed Benin rule.

And I will cite some in the nearest time.

Weren't they documented by the same Samuel Johnson and Oguntuyi...

I’d be waiting for your evidence of these accounts been collected by Johnson or Oguntuyi from Ekiti, etc.

U urself posted an excerpt that stated that Benin invaded ekiti.. but when it's used against u...U claim to want to hear the other side.. Pure clown...

Benin invaded Ekiti = Benin ruled Ekiti.

This is getting more Interesting.

Okay let’s see the second leg of the equation.

Aje from Ibadan invaded Benin kingdom = Ibadan ruled Benin kingdom.

Bini dullards make me loose IQ.

Goan read abt Deji osupa.. or isn't it in Akure tradition..

Can you stop your moronic Deji Osupa rant and provide evidence that these kindoms corroborate Benin claims.

Dapper writes abt Benin
Yoruba: he is exaggerating

He writes abt the relationship with other villages
Yoruba: He's lieing...

No one said is lying. Stop deluding yourself and yet believing it. That’s the beginning of insanity actually.

In case you were reading the back of your phone, my clear statement was that Dapper was documenting accounts emanating from Benin Kingdom.

So, if there is any lie (and of course there is because of the contradiction from the supposedly ruled kingdoms), then it isn’t Dapper who is a liar but the Binis who are deluded liars.

Obviously Tao was with the Akure as at early 19th century to know that the Benin invasion was a lie

No I don’t have to be with with Akure to know whether or not they corroborate the Bini account of imperial rule.

I just have to examine the statements precisely emanating from that kingdom.

Pls help us with the complete akure tradition

Akure traditions were not missing at any time.

My point is that there is no corroboration of imperial Benin rule from these kingdoms.

Moreover, the standard Benin titles of Oridje, Ovie, et al. are not present in their history — another blow.

Etinosa123456:
So.. OmoOlofin... Are u telling me that Samuel Johnson and Oguntuyi were forced to write what dinnor happen or what is it

No they weren’t forced. They collected traditions about various places including about Benin — but they didn’t necessarily collect it from the places the traditions relate to.