F00028: you digress. you started this thread about the divinity of Jesus but in three short posts you have changed the topic.

what distinctly makes Jesus God? for example did he say, unambiguously, he was God? because the Almighty God is not shy to proclaim it e.g Isaiah 42:10. eze. 34:31.


-Well for one thing, the Qur'an stated our world was spherical when for centuries your Bible has been saying it was flat, has four corners and is standing on pillars

-the Quran in the 7th century stated the universe is expanding. that was something scientist only “discovered” in the 20th century after the invention of the hubble.


that’s because Gabriel wasn’t asking him read a document. he was asking him to “recite”.

the word is “Iqra" it means read or recite.

Are you saying Satan does not know science? Can you quote where the Bible talks about the world being flat, has four corners and standing on pillars?

If the scientist discovered something different from what God said, it means He had changed the form He created it. There are a lot of things that have changed from the form they were created including climate change.

Even man has changed. Some 40 years ago and earlier, when a child was born, he/she would not open his/her eyes until after 7 days. Now new-babies open their eyes immediately. Things are changing from their original creation.


Quran 96:1-5 talks about 'read' and 'pen'. So it is talking about reading and not reciting. You write with pen for reading and not for reciting. Iqra here means reading, not reciting. Lie cannot be turned to truth.

Quran 96:4
Who (Allah) teacheth by pen.

Did Allah succeed teaching Muhammad reading and writing by pen? Did he become literate? Lies.

It has been discovered that threads that contain any statement on islam are transferred to muslims' section even if there are matters relating to christianity there.

When christian topics are raised in muslims' section, they are left there. This is giving preference to the muslims.

I am of the opinion that threads discussing topics on both religions should be left where they are posted.

Thank you.

olaade21:


You are truly an illiterate.Now i see.You lack true understanding of the meaning of words.You need to go back to secondary school.May in the verse means possibility to do.It is used in a Formal way. Simply used for saying that it is possible to do something in a particular way.Just like you would say,I would like to come ask for your daughters hand in marriage,so i may marry her.It is used in this form to express Gods love for the sinners.Just like you would say,the wedding is the 21st and i cant wait,so we may get married.Its an expression of an intention.A desire.
You need to go back to school and learn the different ways adverbs and verbs can change their meaning and form in different sentences.Olodo.

With the meaning you formulated in your own way for the word ''may'' as an expression of an intention, a desire, the passage is still saying Allah is intending or desiring to bring muslims out of darkness, but he has not done it yet.

What incapacitated him from removing them immediately? Why is it an intention or desire?

Even with your own self-made english, muslims are in darkness up till now and is uncertain they will come out of it.

olaade21:


Lastly before i leave,Your lies have already proved you wrong and countered your argument.Responded to your first lie and responding to the second one.
Sura 46:9 has been wrongly quoted by you.This is what is states.

Say: I am no new thing among the messengers (of Allah), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. I do but follow that which is inspired in me, and I am but a plain warner.

Every sensible right thinking person doesn't need any one to interpret this.But to a dodo head like you.I will help you out.
This is simply God telling Muhammad to say to the unbelievers(people like you) that he his no new thing amongst the messengers cause others came before him,Jesus,Moses,Abraham,David,Solomon and countless ones it will take a whole night to list.And also to tell them he doesn't know what will be done with him or with them for he doesnt see the future and all decisions rests with God.He can decide to kill them or him,to give them riches or afflict them with poverty,to forgive them or not though God is ever merciful and ever compassionate.And he should also let them know that he his not following his own desires and not just passing on the message for his own good(fame,money,power,private jets like your new generation pastors) and that he his just a plain warner meaning that he can only but warn,its left to God to change their soul and open their hearts and their clouded minds and make them believe.But they will not believe cause they are deaf and dumb,blind men who open their eyes daily and look far into the distance but with clouded minds like yours.People who try to change facts and misconstrue the Quran to deceive fellow blind men like them

You said Muhammad did not see the future and did not know what Allah would do to them as all decisions rest with Him.

Why would Muhammad not see the future if a true prophet? All you have said still show he did not know his own fate in Allah and that of his followers. Even Gabriel did not know.

No other prophet in history expressed such uncertainty in their God. Even now muslims are not sure whether Allah will send them to hell or not as they don't know His intention for them. What a pity.

Jesus assured His followers of heaven. We know what God intends to do for us as a loving father. I pray God will deliver you all.

olaade21: One last thing before i go.Let me leave all you blocked heads with this.Its a list of the most influential persons of all time.It is a book written by a christian Michael H. Hart.Suggest you read it and see who is the No. 1.Its a bestselling book and well respected work.
The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History Michael H. Hart.

“My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.”
― Michael H. Hart, The 100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100

That was a statement by a carnally intelligent man who was not spiritually sound. It takes only wisdom of God to know the things of God.

maclatunji:

How can you understand when you don't know English? It is a waste of time for me to try to teach you when you are unwilling to learn.

You cannot teach what you don't know as you cannot give what you don't have. The word ''MAY'' is different from ''SHALL''.

Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary of Current English says the word ''MAY'' is:
1. ''used to indicate possibility or probability''. This shows uncertainty.

2. ''used to indicate permission or request for permission''

3. ''used to indicate uncertainty''

4. ''used to express wishes and hopes''. This again shows uncertainty.

Sura 33:43 - ''He it is Who blesseth you, and His angels (bless you), that He ''MAY'' bring you forth from darkness unto light, and He is Merciful to the believers''.

Since the word ''MAY'' used in that quotation means uncertainty in english language, it shows the muslim are in darkness and it is not certain Allah will bring them out.

Over to you Maclatunji, the grammarian.

maclatunji:

How can you understand when you don't know English? It is a waste of time for me to try to teach you when you are unwilling to learn.

You cannot teach what you don't know as you cannot give what you don't have. The word ''MAY'' is different from ''SHALL''.

Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary of Current English says the word ''MAY'' is:
1. ''used to indicate possibility or probability''. This shows uncertainty.

2. ''used to indicate permission or request for permission''

3. ''used to indicate uncertainty''

4. ''used to express wishes and hopes''. This again shows uncertainty.

Sura 33:43 - ''He it is Who blesseth you, and His angels (bless you), that He ''MAY'' bring you forth from darkness unto light, and He is Merciful to the believers''.

Since the word ''MAY'' used in that quotation means uncertainty in english language, it shows the muslim are in darkness and it is not certain Allah will bring them out.

Over to you Maclatunji, the grammarian.

Saksreal:
Perhaps there are two comforters in the Bible as this comes to mind.
John 14:16. "And i will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another comforter, that he may abide with you forever".

Here is the Quranic verse you asked for.
Quran 61:6 " And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary said, O children of Israel, I am the messenger of Allah sent to you, confirming the law which came before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed".

Relate this with my previous post

Does that quotation make Muhammad the Comforter (Holy Ghost) which the world did not know because they could not see Him as He is a Spirit? Was Muhammad invisible? Okay, keep believing Muhammad was the Comforter (Holy Ghost) if he was not born of a man and woman and was not seen and known by the people of his time.

But the Comforter (Holy Ghost) Jesus promised manifested on the Day of Penticost in Acts 2:1-4
long before Muhammad was born.

There is no place in the Bible where Jesus said ''Ahmed'' is coming after him according to Sura 61:6. Besides Ahmed is not the same as Comforter (Holy Ghost). Gabriel did not say ''Ahmed'' is the Comforter neither Muhammad.

The revelations brought by Gabriel to Muhammad were not in harmony with the ones before and God did not confirm his revelations. God Himself did not speak even once in the quran.

God did talk directly to the prophets before Muhammad. Why was God silent in his case?

olaade21: POINTBLANK,JUST SHUT UP.CAN YOU INTERPRET THE OVER 50,000 ERRORS AND CONTRADICTING STATEMENTS IN THE HOLY BIBLE.HAVE YOUR FOREFATHERS OF THEOLOGY PROFESSORS BEEN ABLE TO FIND ONE ERROR IN THE QURAN,EVEN A SINGLE LETTER.
PLEASE READ MORE AND LEARN MORE.YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD ALL THE A1S IN ENGLISH FOR ALL I CARE BUT YOU ARE NOT ENLIGHTENED.YOU SOUND JUST LIKE AN ILLITERATE.
EXPAND YOUR OUTLOOK.SWINE EATER.

Thanks for your usual insult. I don't expect anything better than that from you. It is expected from a muslim because of the nature of the religion, violence and violence unending.

Your quran in sura 33:43 says all muslims are in darkness up till now and Allah did not promise them certainty of coming out of it.

Sura 46:9 also says salvation of muslims is not guaranteed as they do not know what Allah will do to them.

It takes magic to be a muslim because despite the so many negative things the quran says about the faithfuls, they still cannot see them. The more you look the less you see.

What is my fault? I saw a passage in the quran, I read it and interpreted it. You claim my interpretation is wrong and none of you could interpret it otherwise because my interpretation is correct. Am I guity for saying it as it is? Why do you hate the truth? It is a pity.

Saksreal:

Looking at Deuteronomy 18:18 once again. It said a prophet like Moses from among their brothers.
Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is from among the bethren of Moses(Pbuh). Arabs are bethren of jews. Only Muhammad falls in this category.

Who is the comforter?
John 16:7, "Nevertheless i tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that i go away; for if i go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if i depart, I will send him unto you".
Ahmed or Muhammad meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost a translation of the greek word Pericletos. In the Gospel of jOhn 14:16, 15:26, 16:7.The word "Comforter" is used in the English translation for the greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a king friend rather than a comforter.
*Paracletos is the warped reading of Periclytos*. Jesus actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the greek word "Paraclete" refers to the prophet who is a mercy for all creatures.


You said the Comforter refers to the Holy Spirit. You fail to realise that the prophecy stated clearly that only if Jesus(pbuh) departs will the comforter come. The bible states that the hOly spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus(pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth and again when Jesus(pbuh) was being baptised etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than the prophet Muhammad(Pbuh).

John 16:12-14
" i have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Albeit when he, the spirit of Truth IS TO COME, he will guide you unto all truth; for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; And he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me"
The spirit of truth refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh).

How could Muhammad be the prophet to be raised for the children of Isreal moving from Egypt to Canan?

Was he among the Isrealites in the journey? Was he born then? How was he to be made a prophet to replace Moses. Joshua was the prophet raised to replace Moses. Was Joshua not their brethren?

A prophet like Moses means a prophet to lead the children of Isreal from their captivity in Egypt to freedom in Canan. Moses prophethood started and ended with leading the children of Isreal out of Egypt and a prophet like him would do exactly his job after him. How did Muhammad fit in here?

Comforter (Holy Ghost):
The same Jesus who talked about the Comforter said it was the Holy Ghost. Do you know better than Him? Do you have a better idea than Him on the subject He raised? Do you see His mind clearer than Himself, the owner of the mind who said the Comforter is the Holy Ghost? Why do you what to change His statement?

This idea of Muhammad being the Comforter is a new development following attack on his prophethood. To get legitimacy for him, muslims started calling him what he is not.

Where did the muslims get that doctrine from? Why is it not in the quran or any of the original hadiths? I don't think all these fabrications can make people believe Muhammad was a true prophet. It rather drives people far away from believing because of lies found in the claims.

maclatunji:

The circumstantial evidence proves that you are in no position to interpret English.

And that makes you unable to interpret the quran you claim you are defending?

It means you are only fanatical without knowledge OR why are you running away from interpreting not for me alone but for other readers as well.

Common, don't run away, reverse and interpret.

maclatunji:

Hahahaaha... I rest my case.

For want of evidence.

maclatunji:

Let us do a simple test. How do you interpret this question: How may I help you?

Then this statement: Say something offensive so that I may ban you.

Give me your interpretation of those statements.

I am not your english student. Interpret the passage and let people judge..

maclatunji:

Oh sorry if you feel offended but I had to ask that question because your failure to grasp the English in that translation of the verse is quite shocking. I am still questioning your grasp of English.

Thank you. But how do you interpret it?

maclatunji:

Don't lie, you cheated to pass English at O-level?

Thank you. I passed my O-level in 1978 when there was no exam cheat and I doubt if you were born then. Your abuse is more tolerable as it is at least better than murder, arson and other terrible crimes your fellows commit in defending your religion.

Anyway, I want to plead with you to stop being in and defending a religion in darkness. I am not the one who said you muslims are in darkness, it is your quran.

The people who moved from light to darkness love darkness more than light. It is no surprise.

IbrahimB: @Paris Love
Hi. I don't really know if my reply to you will be of any use.

Actually there is no mention of the punishment of rape (specifically) in the Qurán.
But this in no way means that rape is not a crime as Islamic Jurisprudence is not based on the Qurán alone.
Authentic traditions of the Prophet are also valid sources of laws in Islam.

For example, the following are punishable in Islam but their punishment is not in the Qur'an:
1. Drinking Alcohol
2. Armed Robbery
3. Witch Craft

For these and other offences, Muslims make recourse to the Hadith. The vast body of Islamic Jurisprudence is to
be found in the Hadith. For example, there is no detailed description of how to observe the Salah (i.e prayer) in
the Qurán but it is the single most important act of worship for a muslim. The rites of the pilgrimage are to be
found in the Hadith as well and not the Qurán.

Adultery as you know is punishable in Islam by death or flogging. The rapist has already committed adultery of course
and as such is liable to the punishment that is due to the fornicator/ adulterer. In the very least.
In Islam, a man cannot have sex with a woman unless he pays her the dowry. That's probably why some of the Islamic
scholars believe the rapist should pay the woman the dowry money as well.

Probably, the reason why you opened this thread is 'what then is the punishment for the woman who has been raped'?
As bigmanahmad said, there is no punishment on the woman due to one of the most important sayings of the Prophet:

"Actions are judged according to intentions"

And how will rape not be punishable in Islam if merely accusing a woman (or man) of fornication, falsely, attracts a punishment of
80 lashes?

As such, I think your question should be 'What is the punishment of rape in Islam'.

If the quran does not talk about sins as important as sex.ual sins, what does it talk about? Infact it does not talk of any sin other attack on Jesus sonship and crucifixion.

Laws found in hadiths are not islamic, they are the culture and tradition of the arabs which were in practice before islam. It means islam as a religion does not attach any importance to sin and holiness which are the primary concern of the true God.

Does Allah hate sin? Why did He not talk about it in the quran?

Then what is the beauty of the quran you people talk of as it is so incomplete, undetailed. Even those things it talked about are incompletely narrated. Without the Bible the details of any prophet or event would not have been known.

It is claimed quran is not a story book to cover its deficiencies. But it tells stories of many events wrongly incompletely. Why? To deceive mankind.

It is a pity that the said converts to islam (if it is true) moved from light to darkness.

Pickthall 33:43 - ''He it is Who blesseth you, and His angels (bless you), that He MAY bring you forth from darkness unto light: and He is Merciful to the believers''.

The above quranic verse says all muslims are in darkness and Allah is yet to bring them out. It is not certain they will be out as the quran says Allah MAY bring them out.

Why would anyone move from certainty to uncertainty? It is a pity.

Zhul-fiqar:
"Who Is The "comforter" In The Bible And Why"?

https://www.nairaland.com/871478/us-christian-jewish-actor-director-sean#10351101

I maintain that the Comforter did not manifest physically as Jesus did. He (Comforter) manifested as a Spirit, Holy Spirit not any man or prophet.

John 15:17
''Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him NOT neither KNOWETH him but ye (disciples) know him, for he DWELLETH with you (disciples) and shall BE in you (disciples).

Comforter is not a man or prophet for:

1. He is not visible. ''Because the world SEETH him not''. People saw Muhammad as a man.

2. People did not know him because he was a Spirit, invisible. ''Neither KNOWETH him''. People saw and knew Muhammad.

3. The disciples knew him for he DWELLETH (lived) and BE in them as a Spirit. Muhammad was not born yet, how could he live and be inside the disciples as a man?

I think this argument of Muhammad, a visible, physical man like you and I being the Comforter should stop as it is not real. Even Gabriel did not tell Muhammad that he was the Comforter, if it were so, he would have told him. If it were so, Muhammad himself would have said it or does anyone know Muhammad better than himself or more than Gabriel?

The truth still remains there is no confirmation of Gabriel coming from the true God.

Saksreal:
Sorry for the other time. Looking at the bible, they have been prophesised.

Dueteronomy 18:15
" The lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers, it is him you shall listen to"

Deuteronomy 18:18
" I will raise up for them a.prophet like you from their brothers. And i will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak to them all that i command him" ....Remember this was God talking to Moses

Isiah 29:12 " And when they give the book to one who cannot read saying, 'Read this', he says, 'I cannot read'. ... In the Quran, when Angel Gabriel commanded Muhammad(pbuh) by saying Iqra-Read, he replied,'I am not Learned.


These are some of the prophecies from the bible of Prophet Muhammad's coming.
None of the prophet in the bible falls under this since they were descendants of Isaac while Muhammad(Pbuh) is from their brothers, a descendant of Ishmael.

Check the book of John, he was called the Spirit of Truth while Jesus also called him " The Comforter"

Thanks for your apology.

Let me state the correct interpretations of the Bible passages you quoted:

Deuteronomy 18:15 & 18
Mose was leading the children of Isreal out of Egypt to Canan. Mose was getting old and there was need for a yonger prophet to lead the children of Isreal. So when Moses died, Joshua was appointed (Joshua 1:1-2). The prophesy was not referring to Muhammad because he was not an Isrealite to lead the children of Isreal to Canan and he was not yet born to assume that duty.

Isaiah 29:12
The statement here is a proverb. 29:11 says ''And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which MEN (not an angel like Gabriel) delivered to the one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he said, I cannot, for it is sealed''.

29:12 - ''An the book (the same book delivered by men in verse 11 above) is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray: and he said, I am not learned''.

Gabriel that commanded Muhammed to read did not come with any book as the Quran was not yet written then. Quran was revealed by recitation and not in a written form at the beginning. The book referred to by the Bible was delivered by MEN and Gabriel did not deliver any book and even if he did he was not a man or men. Therefore the Bible was not referring to Muhammad.

The Comforter:
So much has been said about this subject and there should be no further argument. Firstly, the Comforter is the Holy Ghost not a human being like Muhammad (John 15:26).

In Acts 2:1:4 the Comforter, Holy Ghost manifested to the disciples as Jesus had promised. Acts 2:4 says ''And they were all filled with the 'Holy Ghost (Comforter), and began to speal with new tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance''. The promise of the Comforter was already fulfilled before Muhammad was born.

Therefore there is still no confirmation for Gabriel's message to Muhammed.

Saksreal:
This has to be the dumbest question i have come across this year.

When Jesus was been baptised, the bible told us there came a voice from Heaven saying "This is my son with whom I am pleased with".
Do you have any proof that it was God's voice?

People who worship the true God don't abuse others.

God spoke to confirm His message earlier sent through the true angel Gabriel in Luke 1:35 that Mary was going to have a son who shall be called the Son of God.

What confirmation did Gabriel that spoke to Muhammad have that he was from God?

It is a pity. Moving from truth to falsehood.

Muslim youths will continue to dominate garages as long as muslims marry many wives and have children they cannot cater for educationally. They are not only in garages, they are found in many menial jobs. What do you expect?

kalim.shareef:
Miracle of islam
the name of prophet muhammed sal has been written on egg shell, naturally in arabic.
in this world many miracles are happening, among the all. this is one of the execellent miracle that name of the prophet muhammed salalaahu alaihee vasaalam. name written on egg shell naturally in arabic language. shows the wonders of the world by the god allah to this world.
this is an study and proof of the islam. we can keep this thing for the barkath, of muhammed sallalahu alaihee vasallam.
Price: 20,000,000.00 INR
Keywords: miracle of islam, muhammed written on egg shell, wonders of world in islam, miracle collectible, miracle antique, nice colllection

Allah teaches by pen. So he writes everywhere. He loves writings. But why did he choose an illiterate who could not write as his prophet?

maclatunji: ^Nice effort, read the translation of Chapter 112 of the Qur'an. God talks about himself there, and the name he uses is 'Allah'. This name is from God himself not paganism.

Hello Maclatunji,

How are you so sure it was the true God that spoke in the Quran? What do you have to confirm that Gabriel that spoke to Muhammed was God's angel? Waiting for your proof.

Allah is a magician. Every strange thing he does looks magical. There have been many arabic writings on trees, ground, air, animals and even humans.

The other time he wrote something at Idumota. Writing, writing and writing. Is he making up for Muhammad's inability to read and write? Since Allah likes writings so much, why did he pick illiterate Muhammad as his prophet?

What Allah is capable of doing is only writings here and there. He is not capable of empowering his faithfuls to heal the sick and raise the dead by words of prayer without resulting to magic (tira or charm).

This is nothing but magic. Demonic operations to deceive the people.

I once saw a documentary on NTA a Japanees great warrior who had died a long time ago. The fisher men caught some tortoise in the ocean and all of them had the photograph of the warrior inscribed on their back. Was this also from Allah?

Ordinary magic!

@usisky

If the quran is scientifically accurate, it is not special. What is science? It is the handiwork of God studied by man. Angels and demons are spirit beings with great knowledge. They have been existing on earth before man and they know every about the earth.

The quran is inconsistent. It approves of the Jews and Christians today and condemns them tomorow. During the quranic revelations, what had changed in christianity within the period it approved of it that made it condemn it later? Allah/Gabriel are not omniscience and therefore errors are found in their revelations