GeneralDae:

Then why do you still need the entire law? what is in the law that christ has not given us?

Dtruthspeaker:


Have you abandoned your position?

"...but for me I am okay with the golden rule and the teachings of christ. I don't think I need the laws of Moses to serve God."

For I wanted to show you based on whatever Rule or Teaching you may raise which you erroneously attach to Christ, its equivalent Pronouncemet of Law.

So it needs be cleared that you have a abandoned your ground of Christ Teachings being Different from The Law, then I can proceed to answer the question up above which you posed.

So have you abandoned your "but for me I am okay with the golden rule and the teachings of christ. I don't think I need the laws of Moses to serve God." position?

Dtruthspeaker:


Have you abandoned your position?

"...but for me I am okay with the golden rule and the teachings of christ. I don't think I need the laws of Moses to serve God."

For I wanted to show you based on whatever Rule or Teaching you may raise which you erroneously attach to Christ, its equivalent Pronouncemet of Law.

So it needs be cleared that you have a abandoned your ground of Christ Teachings being Different from The Law, then I can proceed to answer the question up above which you posed.

So have you abandoned your "but for me I am okay with the golden rule and the teachings of christ. I don't think I need the laws of Moses to serve God." position?

GeneralDae:

I don't know what you want me to abandon. I have not abandoned anything. My point is:

I am okay with the teachings of christ and I don't need the laws of Moses. I don't even care if there is a law of Moses. I am okay with just the teachings of christ. The laws of Moses do not matter to me whether it aligns with that of christ or not. Do you get it now?

Dtruthspeaker:


Do not be offended, I do understand and I respect the fact every person has a right to walk in a that seemeth good in their own eye, even if such a way is erroneous, but hopefully, they discover error before it is too late!

For as A Last Word All The Teachings of Are The Explanations of The Application and the Execution of The Law Given to Moses by God Himself, Moses did not Make The Law!

So I back off now!

GeneralDae:

So you are saying the creators of Moses knew God better?

GeneralDae:

There is nothing so special or different about the laws of Moses. They are very much like ancient middle eastern laws. Ancient middle Eastern laws were both moral and barbaric, some more than others.

Kobojunkie:
YHWH's Old Covenant laws apply ONLY to those who are of the blood of Jacob , and the foreigners living in the land of Canaan. So anyone who does not meet that criteria is thoroughly deceived in much the same way that Christians who live according to the Old Covenant laws are.

sonmvayina:


From all indication...The Torah is the most interesting and beautiful master peice i have come accross. If you really understand the layers of meaning. You will easily know jesus is an idol..and immidiately flee from him..

GeneralDae:

There is nothing so special or different about the laws of Moses. They are very much like ancient middle eastern laws. Ancient middle Eastern laws were both moral and barbaric, some more than others.
The sumerians who existed way before the Moses character already had moral laws forbidding killing, stealing, and the likes. God's inspiration was available to every culture not just to Moses. Besides, in my opinion the laws of Moses that requires stoning people who don't keep sabbath or burning the promiscuous daughters of Levite Priests are outdated and cannot come from thesame God of Jesus.

GeneralDae:

So that is what you have now? subjective arguements? The Torah is from God simply because it's the most beautiful master piece you've come across? Why don't you realize that for many the new testament books are the most interesting and beautiful? For Others the Quran is the greatest and no one can write a book like it and for many it's the Hindu scriptures that revers several gods?

Dtruthspeaker:


Lies!

No Nation on Earth had Any Righteous or Right-Full and Good-Full law NEARLY Comparable to the Laws God Gave Moses and Israel.

No, not one! Not Before, Not After!

sonmvayina:


But none comes close....the Hindu might be the second because the indians understands that life is a journey..and knows what God is and is not.

The battle/wars/jihad is within..

sonmvayina:


Now we are getting somewhere....exactely why the Romans invented the jesus character. Because they felt the God of the jews cant be the real God...

Google "Marcion".

GeneralDae:

You are arguing subjectively, can't you see that?

sonmvayina:


Nah....not at all, not when every woke human holds similar view.

Hashabiah:
[s][/s] Wrong again! Read John14:9-10. There is no alternative answer to what Jesus was saying. Why? Because Philip wanted to see the Father ; he needed physical evidence of the Father's existence which why he said SHOW US THE FATHER. And this is a direct meaning with no underlining alterior meaning underneath. And except you want to call Jesus a liar, then you have to agree with what He said about the Father being in Him and He in the Father. This verse sits well because we see the same being said in Colossian 2:9. But if you do not agree with that verse, you can tear it out of your bible and tag it with your own interpretation. But I will advice that you let the bible and Jesus, speak for themselves .

GeneralDae:

Are you kidding me? so are you saying laws such as do not kill, steal, commit adultery, came from the Moses character and non before the creation of this character? you need to expand your view of other cultures and history.

Dtruthspeaker:


Why are you seeking to make trouble?

The Laws of God where Already in Force in the whole earth long before before He Even Spelt it out and Gave Moses,

Abraham, Laban, Joseph, Egypt Prove The Truth of It!

Thus, every nation knew not to steal, kill, take another man's woman etc and many of His Laws Already

But NONE HAD THE THE FULLNESS OF RIGHT AND GOOD SPELT OUT AND HONOURED IN their laws, Not One!

Only Isreal!

GeneralDae:

And how do you know the bolded? what is your proof for that?

GeneralDae:

Can you give me proof the Torah is special?

GeneralDae:

I know about Marcion, no need to Google him, and Marcion was partly right not totally.

GeneralDae:

And how do you know the bolded? what is your proof for that?

GeneralDae:

And how do you know the bolded? what is your proof for that?

sonmvayina:


I really dont have any problem with you wanting to follow whoever you choose to follow. But what i am trying to lay before you is the information and facts and history so you can at least make an informed decision.
I still maintain that there was never any need for the jesus character. It is God who created us like this. He did not make any mistake to warrant him sending "his son" as a sin sacrifice to undo his fork up..That is just plain stupiid. He created us with the ability and capacity to make choices. He knows we can make the wrong ones. He just gave us laws to make good ones so that we will all live in peace within ourselves and with our neigbour.

End of it all, when we die, our spirit returns to God and our body back to the earth..

Dtruthspeaker:


I am a Lawyer and to Find The Most Goodest, The Most Right-Fullest, The Most Balancest and Equalest Law and The Most Flawless and Faultless Law in All the earth was a Personal Mission I undertook for myself.

For as we were taught and saw their (not mine anymore) man made law called Constitution was always defective and ineffective and insufficient and never ever did enough just is and right (if anything it was Wrong and Insight)

Thus, Lawyers are Charged to Find or Commissioned to create A Good and Perfect and Flawless Law which Guarantees Natural Just is, Equity, and Equality and Balance with No Party reasonably left out to seek remedy because Just is was not Fully Done!

And in line with my commission as a Lawyer, I find No Better Body of Laws which are as Righteous as The One God Gave Isreal.

THERE IS NONE!

No, not one anywhere on the earth, whether in the past nor the future.

Only God's Laws are the Most Right-Full and Balanced and Fair and Just in all the earth!

GeneralDae:

There was a need for the jesus character. The Jesus character taught the jews the most important tenets of the law. Stoning people for not keeping sabbath makes no meaning in today's world or burning the promiscuous daughter of a priest alive is a barbaric law.
If we follow Jesus, we can just live by his moral teachings, and we do not need the law and the system it was meant to govern.

Your other points about sin sacrifice are not the major reasons jesus himself gave for coming into the world. This is the reason the Jesus character himself gave:

And even the son of man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.
Mark 10v45.

The crowd hailed Jesus as King when he rode on a donkey in Jerusalem. The Jewish leaders became scared that if it continued that way and the Romans hear about these things, the Romans would come into their land to destroy so many in the nation ( who have now become disciples of Jesus). It was therefore fitting that Jesus alone ( one man) should die than for this mass destruction in the city in the search for those who proclaimed Jesus as new King of the Jews. Jesus was delivered to the Romans, and he gladly became a Ransom to the Romans in order to spare his followers who continued with his message. The message we hear today all around the world even though a lot has probably been corrupted down the centuries.

And he said to them, I have told you I am he. If you seek me, let these ones go their way.
John 18v8

If you study the gospels well, you would see that Jesus was also scared for his disciples and beckoned on them several times to pray so that they too would not fall into temptation. He prayed to God to preserve them.

He was quick to present himself to the Roman guards who came to arrest him, saying: I am he, let these men go.

Jman24:



Stop getting played by different philosophers in the good book

As old as human existed, there are people who support jungle justice and there are those who don't(even in same area). But the constant there is "justice"


It still exists till today. So when the invented or biblical Jesus frowns at jungle justice, it isn't a new thing.
Hope you got that Africans!

GeneralDae:

And how does this tally with my response to the post I was responding to and where did O say frowning at Jungle justice is a new thing? I don't get the point you are making.

GeneralDae:

You are just obsessed with Law. All that we need to make laws in our individual societies are the teachings of Jesus such as the Golden Rule, forgiveness, etc. We don't need 613 laid out laws. Humans are different across different cultures, we just need to be guided by the teachings of Jesus, then each society can write out their laws by those basic principles Jesus, Moses, our African traditions and the likes of Confucius taught.