[quote author=Tobex4realTobex234 post=100465459]

Visa also just opened up settlements via USDC, ETH.

Let pant be wearing Emefiele[/quote]

emmanuelewumi:



Buy a 30 year bond at 10%, that will give you N10 million per annum for 30 years and you have your N100 million at the end of the 30th year. You can sell your bond at a premium.

I don't trust Insurance companies. Get a calculator, buying N100 million annuity will give you 846k per month or N10.2 million for 30 years. And you don't have a N100 million to claim in 30 years

People marketing annuity won't tell you this

Lazyyouth4u:


Calculation of annuity payments is much more complex than what your calculator can do . They take a whole lot into consideration to arrive at the monthly amount.

They (annuities and bonds) both have their pros and cons and what will work for Mr A may not work for Mr B. Different people with different circumstances and needs.

Looking at the example and calculation, bond at 10% gives N10m per annum while annuity gives N10.2m per annum but at the end of the day, you still get your N100m with the bond option which the annuity purchase will not give you. Does this not show that bond is better by far?. How else will annuity be calculated for it to beat bond or what circumstances will make it beat bond?.

NL1960:




Looking at the example and calculation, bond at 10% gives N10m per annum while annuity gives N10.2m per annum but at the end of the day, you still get your N100m with the bond option which the annuity purchase will not give you. Does this not show that bond is better by far?. How else will annuity be calculated for it to beat bond or what circumstances will make it beat bond?.

I told the lady marketing annuity to me, that I wanted buy for 20 years. She said she only sell annuity for life

I told her I wanted for 20 years and will need statement of account that will show me the balance of my fund, so that if anything should within 20 years my loved ones will have assess to the remaining fund, she said nothing like that

There was no auction yesterday.

Akin3891:
Does Anyone has idea of yesterday rates?

Another was marketing an investment linked insurance product, she said with N2 million investors will get 250k for 10 years. Just N2.5 million in 10 years from N2 million

Whereas a fixed income Investment at 10% for 10 years, will give 200k for 10 years which is N2 million. Plus my initial N2 million Investment making a total of N4 million

NL1960:




Looking at the example and calculation, bond at 10% gives N10m per annum while annuity gives N10.2m per annum but at the end of the day, you still get your N100m with the bond option which the annuity purchase will not give you. Does this not show that bond is better by far?. How else will annuity be calculated for it to beat bond or what circumstances will make it beat bond?.

To start with, there is always a huge difference between the annual payments for annuities and bond payments. Annuities include principal and interest. Bonds only interest. There is no way the payments are the same as shown in that example. Annuities are always way higher.

As per the calculation, If you are a healthy guy with a longer expected lifespan, your monthly payments will be less than an unhealthy man’s with a shorter expected lifespan. Also age at the time of retirement also counts. A man in his 50s will receive lower annuity payments than a man in his 60s. Gender difference sef dey. Women get less as they are expected to live longer.

If you are a retiree in his 60s, you can purchase a lifetime annuity and sleep well at night knowing that you will be sure of getting a fixed amount every month especially if the insurance company is very strong. With bonds, you just don’t know the state of the country and sleep no go fit come

Also, the longer you live, the more assured you are with an annuity. With bond, you will definitely be worried about interest rates when the bond matures. With lower interest rates, the lower the amount you will get after reinvesting. That’s assuming the money still dey sef

Finally, I am better off if I am able to buy a dollar or euro denominated annuity from a strong international insurance company. It beats holding a Naija bond any damn day

Note: some annuities, you can negotiate that a balance be paid to your heirs or beneficiaries at death.

Also, you get annuity payments monthly. Bond interests usually come twice a year. You are responsible for making that money last until the next payment comes. Not good for person that likes to spend anyhow

For those of us who have SFS REIT.

The fund earned up to 16% per annum from some of their fixed income .


Currently have over N900 million in fixed income

Lazyyouth4u:


To start with, there is always a huge difference between the annual payments for annuities and bond payments. Annuities include principal and interest. Bonds only interest. There is no way the payments are the same as shown in that example. Annuities are always way higher.

As per the calculation, If you are a healthy guy with a longer expected lifespan, your monthly payments will be less than an unhealthy man with a shorter expected lifespan. Also age at the time of retirement also counts. A man in his 50s will receive lower annuity payments than a man in his 60s.

If you are a retiree in his 60s, you can purchase a lifetime annuity and sleep well at night knowing that you will be sure of getting a fixed amount every month especially if the insurance company is very strong. With bonds, you just don’t know the state of the country and sleep no go fit come

Also, the longer you live, the more assured you are with an annuity. With bond, you will definitely be worried about interest rates when the bond matures. With lower interest rates, the lower the amount you will get after reinvesting. That’s assuming the money still dey sef

Finally, I am better off if I am able to buy a dollar or euro denominated annuity from a strong international insurance company. It beats holding a Naija bond any damn day

Note: some annuities, you can negotiate that a balance be paid to your heirs or beneficiaries at death.

Also, you get annuity payments monthly. Bond interests usually come twice a year. You are responsible for making that money last until the next payment comes. Not good for person that likes to spend anyhow

The basis of comparison should be the total payout over a period of time eg 10 years.

Do we have inflation adjusted annuities in Nigeria? They have not marketed such to me ooo

emmanuelewumi:



The basis of comparison should be the total payout over a period of time eg 10 years.

Do we have inflation adjusted annuities in Nigeria? They have not marketed such to me ooo

That’s exactly the point I’m trying to make. It’s not easy to compare. You need to make various assumptions. I don’t think anyone will purchase a ten year annuity at retirement. What’s the point?

I’m not saying one is better than the other o. I’m just saying it’s not that easy to point to one and say it is better.

Lazyyouth4u:


That’s exactly the point I’m trying to make. It’s not easy to compare. You need to make various assumptions. I don’t think anyone will purchase a ten year annuity at retirement. What’s the point?

I’m not saying one is better than the other o. I’m just saying it’s not that easy to point to one and say it is better.

Insurance company will want one to buy for life, if the retiree should die in 5 years. The insurance company have fulfilled their part of the deal.

emmanuelewumi:


Insurance company will want one to buy for life, if the retiree should die in 5 years. The insurance company have fulfilled their part of the deal.

One can negotiate a balance to be paid to heirs if one dies before a certain age.

Lazyyouth4u:


One can negotiate a balance to be paid to heirs if one dies before a certain age.

Buying annuity for life is vague, life can end in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years.

They will calculate their payout with the assumption that the person will live for 30 years, which will make the payout to be little.


I prefer being specific, eg 30 years annuity and send the monthly statements of the fund to me. But the marketer said it doesn't work that way.

I just told her to market her products to those who are not numerate and financially informed.

emmanuelewumi:


Buying annuity for life is vague, life can end in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years.

They will calculate their payout with the assumption that the person will live for 30 years, which will make the payout to be little.


I prefer being specific, eg 30 years annuity and send the monthly statements of the fund to me. But the marketer said it doesn't work that way.

I just told her to market her products to those who are not numerate and financially informed.

But she’s right . They need to make some complex assumptions before arriving at the amount. They use actuarial tables to compute.

emmanuelewumi:




Valuation is one thing, having cash in another thing.

Valuation can be subjective, nfluenced by optimism and pessimism. When influenced by optimism, the asset can be given a very high earning multiple.

Elon Musk can be valued at over $100 billion, but might not have $1 billion in cash.


When businesses are valued in the capital market, the valuation fluctuates depending on the mood of the market and market participants. At the end of the day what matters is the revenue, earnings, earning growth, profit margin and efficiency of the business.

Oga calm down Sir. There is difference between valuation and acquisition. This was a sold business. This isn't valuation.

If Seun says Nairaland is worth 2 billion naira. That's valuation.

If Pulse comes and buys it from him at that 2 billion naira. That's an acquisition. Paystack was bought, and the investors have already cashed out, so what is the profit and stuff you are talking about Sir?

Lazyyouth4u:


By the way, for every Paystack founder that will make money from selling their business, I will tell you 10 very brilliant fintech entrepreneurs that are in the wilderness.

Also, If tech was the surest way to make billions, then veterans like Sim Shagaya, Tunde Kehinde, The Wakanow guy, Tayo Oviosu, Akin Jones, Mark Essien and Seun will be swimming in billions now

Excuse me Smir, are you talking dollars now, na naira we they talk na.

And while we don't have the exact figure of these people's worth, most of them are between $1m - $5m. Depending on where they stand on that range, they are naira billionaires.

Tobex4realTobex234:


Excuse me Smir, are you talking dollars now, na naira we they talk na.

And while we don't have the exact figure of these people's worth, most of them are between $1m - $5m. Depending on where they stand on that range, they are naira billionaires.

You are funny . I know some of these guys and I can tell you for a fact that you are wrong

Some of them are from wealthy families and this lets them just keep churning out venture upon venture. They are not really making money from those ventures o. Those startups burn cash like mad.

How true is this

Una they overrate this naira I swear. To be naira billionaire no hard as una they think oo.. Na USD billionaire hard die.

I can't comment on these guys you listed though, as I don't have exact data on them.

Goel:

For that you would need money which you don't. China and India will provide solar panels at a fraction of cost what US and Germany would do.

And that is exactly why people complain that solar is not effective.

You get what you paid for. That's China for you.

Nezzjnr:
How true is this

They were lucky though but yes it's possible. Crypto traders actually rely more on luck than strategy.

The small $2k that I riskily put in altcoins has done over 400% this year. But I'm not tempted to increase my capital in it, cuz na sheer luck!!!

N:B: I have a very small portion of my investment in alts. No go pack all your money out for alts because of a random post on NL.

Tobex4realTobex234:


Oga calm down Sir. There is difference between valuation and acquisition. This was a sold business. This isn't valuation.

If Seun says Nairaland is worth 2 billion naira. That's valuation.

If Pulse comes and buys it from him at that 2 billion naira. That's an acquisition. Paystack was bought, and the investors have already cashed out, so what is the profit and stuff you are talking about Sir?

You need valuation before making an acquisition or merger.


And that N2 billion valuation for Nairaland is subjective, at the end of the day what matters is the revenue, profit, profit margin, earning growth and market share of Nairaland

Tobex4realTobex234:
Una they overrate this naira I swear. To be naira billionaire no hard as una they think oo.. Na USD billionaire hard die.

I can't comment on these guys you listed though, as I don't have exact data on them.

Sir/ma, I hope you are a Naira billionaire o

Lazyyouth4u:


But she’s right . They need to make some complex assumptions before arriving at the amount. They use actuarial tables to compute.

Not for me, for people who wants safety and are ready to short pay themselves looking for safety

Tobex4realTobex234:


They were lucky though but yes it's possible. Crypto traders actually rely more on luck than strategy.

The small $2k that I riskily put in altcoins has done over 400% this year. But I'm not tempted to increase my capital in it, cuz na sheer luck!!!

N:B: I have a very small portion of my investment in alts. No go pack all your money out for alts because of a random post on NL.

Don't get your last statement

NL1960:


Abeg make you flex small o. Na only this life we get o.

Boss, make we make money first. Not so young though, but everyone has a target to aim for before certain life decisions.

Tobex4realTobex234:


Oga calm down Sir. There is difference between valuation and acquisition. This was a sold business. This isn't valuation.

If Seun says Nairaland is worth 2 billion naira. That's valuation.

If Pulse comes and buys it from him at that 2 billion naira. That's an acquisition. Paystack was bought, and the investors have already cashed out, so what is the profit and stuff you are talking about Sir?

Meanwhile, when the dust settles, you go hear the real gist of that acquisition

Lazyyouth4u:


You are funny . I know some of these guys and I can tell you for a fact that you are wrong

Some of them are from wealthy families and this lets them just keep churning out venture upon venture. They are not really making money from those ventures o. Those startups burn cash like mad.

Tayo Oviso, Sim Shagaya et al. You are right, they are definitely not average Nigerians. Majority of start ups are not yet profitable, some have good projections for future earnings though.

It's Sim that I don't understand that his education app.

EarlyCareer:


Tayo Oviso, Sim Shagaya et al. You are right, they are definitely not average Nigerians. Majority of start ups are not yet profitable, some have good projections for future earnings though.

It's Sim that I don't understand that his education app.

For the profitablity, how long should we look at? I think from 5 years and above is okay.

Doubt if Jumia is profitable sha

EarlyCareer:


Tayo Oviso, Sim Shagaya et al. You are right, they are definitely not average Nigerians. Majority of start ups are not yet profitable, some have good projections for future earnings though.

It's Sim that I don't understand that his education app.

Sim is John Shagaya’s son. Smart chap but he has put his hands in tech ventures that have failed but he keeps coming back with new ones

Tayo is not an OBO. He has done well for himself and Paga is on its way but not there yet.

You are very right about them being as good as their future earnings. Many of them are not making money yet and are just burning through the cash of their investors.

emmanuelewumi:



For the profitablity, how long should we look at? I think from 5 years and above is okay.

Doubt if Jumia is profitable sha

Well, I guess there should be an idle timeline. Some take much longer though, Tesla took much longer. Even now, some people still question whether or not they are.

emmanuelewumi:



For the profitablity, how long should we look at? I think from 5 years and above is okay.

Doubt if Jumia is profitable sha

Jumia is not profitable. Making losses and just burning through cash.

Lazyyouth4u:


Sim is John Shagaya’s son. Smart chap but he has put his hands in tech ventures that have failed but he keeps coming back with new ones

Tayo is not an OBO. He has done well for himself and Paga is on its way but not there yet.

You are very right about them being as good as their future earnings. Many of them are not making money yet and are just burning through the cash of their investors.

True, Sim had big plans for Jumia though, its unfortunate. Tayo has managed Paga so well