Myer:

Max I thought we agreed you'd avoid my threads? What happened? Lack of self control?
You know self control is one of the fruit of the Spirit.

You don't have to keep repeating what you want from JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES on a public forum. This is about FAITH and everyone is free to air his or her opinion.
So simply because you're silenced by the way JWs respond to thought provoking questions doesn't render us mute when you raise allegations against our God!

I'll answer you just the same though.
If only you truly were diligent with your bible study you'll know that you cant even blame Pharaoh for what he did to the Israelites by making them slaves. Why?
God himself revealed to Abraham that he would make Israelites slaves in a foreign land (Egypt) for over 400 years. So apparently it was God's will.
Also was he not God that hardened his heart?
Whether he worshipped the same God or not l, was it not the same God that revealed dreams to the past Pharoah so that Joseph could be blessed by interpreting it to him?

First of all God told Abraham his descendants will become slaves for a reason, and that reason was revealed @ Exodus 6:2-3.
Secondly JEHOVAH will never reveal anything to a pagan if the matter has nothing to do with His people!
Lastly the hardening has nothing to do with God's will, the matter was between two men who grew up as royals in the palace of Pharaoh. Moses was sent to deliver God's people from bondage while Ramses wanted to keep his slaves. Any right thinking person could have wondered "why didn't Jehovah (the Almighty God) just kill this man once and for all so that the Egyptians may be scared to let Israelites (slaves) go?"
Well if He did the surrounding nations won't get the message that it's the most powerful spirit that's coming with the Israelites, they'll assume it was coincidental! Exodus 6:1

Also the bible said that God himself hardened the heart of Pharoah so that he may be glorified.
Meaning you cant even blame Pharoah since it was Gods plan. Can any man resist God?
Even Paul was a persecutor of Chrostians until God decided to convert him by himself.
Meaning how can you blame the man when he is simply a puppet under the whims of his puppeteer, God

Thorough meditation will help you grasp what this means!
When you have the power to smash an ant but allowing it to go scot-free only for the insect to continue walking right to where you don't want it to go then it leaves you with no other option! The game was over when Israelites finally left Egypt but the stubborn man still gathered the best of his armies to pursue the Israelites knowing fully well that their God is leading them.
Sorry the story is self explanatory!

2. How can you even compare Job to Adam?
Are you intentionally trying to derail this topic?
Adam was the first man. He knew nothing if the consequences of his actions and what we now call sin (disobedience to God's instructions).

Job lived many millennia after Adam and being studious already knew the consequences of sin and having learnt from history was able to stand firm.
Even though God still found fault in him for trying to justify his righteousness.

So you can't compare anyone to Adam.
Any human being would fall the same way Adam and Eve fell. Why?

1. They were the first. What we call pilot test.

2. Adam and Eve though God told Adam the consequence of disobeying him, they never understood what it meant.

3. The bible never mentioned how long before they disobeyed God meaning they were probably very righteous for millennia before they eventually fell. Cut them some slack. Ordinary one year you yourself know how many times you've sinned and disobeyed God.

My friend God spoke directly to Adam about the consequences of disobedience but nobody said a word to Job until Satan has finished dealing with him.
If you warned your own child against something would you write-off the child's disobedience all because such never occurred before?

DappaD:


Do you think Adam wouldn’t know the consequence of his disobedience after God told him clearly that if he ate of the tree, he would die? Genesis 2:17
If Adam didn’t know the consequences of disobedience, why is blame heaped on his head that he brought sin and death into the world? Romans 5:12



Adam was never created immortal. As at that point in time, only God was/is immortal(Habakkuk 1:12)so none of the angels are immortal even though they do not wear out and die like humans that’s why Satan and his demons are subject to destruction. Matthew 25:46, Romans 16:20
There’s a big difference between immortality(deathlessness/indestructibility) and living forever as a perfect creature. Adam had the prospect of living forever had it been he kept taking in instruction from God but he was never immortal that’s why he could return to nonexistence. Genesis 3:19



It can only be a lie if God didn’t have the power to liberate Israel without going through all that rigorous process. Even God said the reason why he kept Pharaoh alive was so he could show his power before the eyes of the nations(Exodus 9:16) so God did not need to bargain with Pharaoh, the reason for all that was to see whether he would oblige but he only continued to harden his heart(Psalm 105:25) so if God chose to eliminate him in an instant nothing stops him(Job 34:14,15) but he chose to go through diplomatic process first by tolerating Pharaoh. Romans 9:22

Right and wrong are relative to what God decides is right at any specific time.

1. Did Adam know it was wrong to disobey God?
Yes. That's not even myvargument in Adam's case.
But did he understand the consequence of his disobedience?
Did he know what death meant?
Every child was told fire was bad and would burn him but did every child not attempt to touch fire and feel the burn before understanding the consequence?

Adam was a first of mankind..
Have you ever considered his limitations?

2. Adam being immortal was never my opinion. I simply countered another poster.
He claimed Adam was created to live forever until he sinned against God.
My point being if he was created to live for ever how come there was a tree of life in the garden of Eden which God said would make him live for ever?

3. God lying to Pharaoh, I understand that is a hard one to chew but do you at least agree that it was God who hardened his heart so that he won't release the Israelites just so he could prove that he is God with signs and wonders?

Dtruthspeaker:


Dictionary is not the Repository of Wisdom.

The Owner of Wisdom has already told you that He is the One holding Wisdom and He dispenses it at His Own Will and it can not be taken by anyone.

It is rather given! Wisdom is a Gift!

It can not be bought in the market or found by much books!

So everyone is A Fool until Wisdom enters them and changes them.!



The Operative Word is "Knowing" nothing more!



This is why your brother FoJ and co will shout "fallacy upanda" because all inductive and deductive reasoning is based on the Facts on Ground and not pulled from the air, abracadabra style.

And you Truthfully have none as you have shown!

Dictionary is never wrong.
What then is the Wisdom he dispenses?
Is it now the knowledge of Good and Evil?

Dont just argue for argument sake. You only sound foolish when you do that cos now you're saying the dictionary is wrong and only the bible is right. When both are actually saying the same thing.

What does Hosea 4:6 Say? KNOWLEDGE.
What does John 8:32 say KNOWLEDGE.

Knowledge and Wisdom go together.
Wisdom is when you KNOW the difference between Good and Evil.

Our generation is a perfect example.
Most of our youths don't even know the difference between what's right and wrong.

That's why you need to ask for the organization having the best youths using their time and energy to worship God! Psalms 110:3
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES have that unlike misinformed religionsts whose youths are after worldly carriers and materialism JW youths are spending millions of hours in the preaching and teaching work commissioned by Jesus Christ! Luke 7:35
The last time i had Adeboye hailing a boxer, that's a youth spending his youthful vigor for material possessions in violent sports.
While JWs are always looking for ways to make hours in the preaching and teaching program commissioned by Jesus Christ!

So if you're talking about your youths becoming miscreants in the society, our own youths are fine examples throughout the earth! Matthew 5:13-16

Myer:

Our generation is a perfect example.
Most of our youths don't even know the difference between what's right and wrong.

Myer:

Dictionary is never wrong.

I did not say it is wrong just insufficient! We have often experienced great difficulty in many instances in ascertaining what is good and evil even and the dictionary failed to help us, as proven by the many crazy questions people even ask here on Nairaland.

Yet the dictionary said you know good and evil!

Myer:

What then is the Wisdom he dispenses?
Is it now the knowledge of Good and Evil?

Wisdom is More than that and Much more Greater than that!

It includes "Inside information", Revealing of Secrets, Prophecy etc. many other things.

Myer:

Dont just argue for argument sake. You only sound foolish when you do that cos now you're saying the dictionary is wrong and only the bible is right. When both are actually saying the same thing.

Nope! Bible is Greater!

Knowing the dictionary does not guarantee Good Living and Good Life, but the Bible Does!

Knowing the dictionary does not save you from trouble, but the Bible does!

Knowing the dictionary will not help you escape from your enemies trap, but the Bible will!

Myer:

What does Hosea 4:6 Say? KNOWLEDGE.
What does John 8:32 say KNOWLEDGE.

Knowledge and Wisdom go together...

Knowledge is A Part of Wisdom but not the Whole of Wisdom. It forms about 20% of the whole of Wisdom.

There is More.

Whilst There is ALWAYS Knowledge in Wisdom but there is not Always Wisdom in Knowledge if not ask Pharoah, Goliath, Ananias and Sapphire etc

Myer:

Wisdom is when you KNOW the difference between Good and Evil.

Wisdom is Greater than Knowledge!

Whilst There is ALWAYS Knowledge in Wisdom but there is not Always Wisdom in Knowledge

Myer:

Our generation is a perfect example.
Most of our youths don't even know the difference between what's right and wrong.

But they all have dictionaries, so why has it not saved them since as you said, the dictionary is on the same standing with the Bible, it definitions ought to help resolve the difference?

Did I not tell you above that the Bible is Greater and your dictionary insufficient?

Now you have admitted the insufficiency of the dictionary to your generation.

And how shall your generation not be cut off from knowing the difference between right and wrong, when you guys are even challenging The Maker of Rights and Wrongs as Shown in the Bible, which of course is not in your dictionaries?

It is Written, "If any of us (not haters of God) lacks Wisdom, let him ask of God, Who Giveth to all men, liberally ..." James1:5

Dtruthspeaker:


I did not say it is wrong just insufficient! We have often experienced great difficulty in many instances in ascertaining what is good and evil even and the dictionary failed to help us, as proven by the many crazy questions people even ask here on Nairaland.

Yet the dictionary said you know good and evil!



Wisdom is More than that and Much more Greater than that!

It includes "Inside information", Revealing of Secrets, Prophecy etc. many other things.



Nope! Bible is Greater!

Knowing the dictionary does not guarantee Good Living and Good Life, but the Bible Does!

Knowing the dictionary does not save you from trouble, but the Bible does!

Knowing the dictionary will not help you escape from your enemies trap, but the Bible will!



Knowledge is A Part of Wisdom but not the Whole of Wisdom. It forms about 20% of the whole of Wisdom.

There is More.

Whilst There is ALWAYS Knowledge in Wisdom but there is not Always Wisdom in Knowledge if not ask Pharoah, Goliath, Ananias and Sapphire etc



Wisdom is Greater than Knowledge!

Whilst There is ALWAYS Knowledge in Wisdom but there is not Always Wisdom in Knowledge



But they all have dictionaries, so why has it not saved them since as you said, the dictionary is on the same standing with the Bible, it definitions ought to help resolve the difference?

Did I not tell you above that the Bible is Greater and your dictionary insufficient?

Now you have admitted the insufficiency of the dictionary to your generation.

And how shall your generation not be cut off from knowing the difference between right and wrong, when you guys are even challenging The Maker of Rights and Wrongs as Shown in the Bible, which of course is not in your dictionaries?

It is Written, "If any of us (not haters of God) lacks Wisdom, let him ask of God, Who Giveth to all men, liberally ..." James1:5

Typical. Must you twist the words of others just to digress the point?

It is not the dictionary's work to teach you what is good or evil.
It is like you said an innate quality or learnt from good mentorship.

I simply asserted that the Dictionary's definition of wisdom as the knowledge of good and evil is right just as the bible says it is the knowledge of good and evil. Meaning Adam and Eve became wise from eating of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

As per generations not knowing the difference between good and evil, it has always been there since the beginning of time. Just read the old testament of the bible. Particularly the book of Judges.
So it is not peculiar to this generation in fact even the Roman age had it worse and that was during the time of Jesus.

The question is what then is good and what is evil?

Because according to the bible (both old and new testaments) theres actually no set good or evil.
But simply whatever God decides per time.

MaxInDHouse:
That's why you need to ask for the organization having the best youths using their time and energy to worship God! Psalms 110:3
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES have that unlike misinformed religionsts whose youths are after worldly carriers and materialism JW youths are spending millions of hours in the preaching and teaching work commissioned by Jesus Christ! Luke 7:35
The last time i had Adeboye hailing a boxer, that's a youth spending his youthful vigor for material possessions in violent sports.
While JWs are always looking for ways to make hours in the preaching and teaching program commissioned by Jesus Christ!

So if you're talking about your youths becoming miscreants in the society, our own youths are fine examples throughout the earth! Matthew 5:13-16

Our youth includes JW members sir.
Even if you dont watch boxing you have your own interests which other JW members like you will judge you as carnal. Either secular movies or football or JW members kryptonite, alcohol.

Myer:

I simply asserted that the Dictionary's definition of wisdom as the knowledge of good and evil is right just as the bible says it is the knowledge of good and evil. Meaning Adam and Eve became wise from eating of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

Ok, the Highlighted narrows how I responded and will respond.

The definition of Wisdom in the Bible is not the same with the dictionary.

The definition of Wisdom is Greater and so Much such that it is "Indefinable".

Myer:

As per generations not knowing the difference between good and evil, it has always been there since the beginning of time. Just read the old testament of the bible. Particularly the book of Judges.
So it is not peculiar to this generation in fact even the Roman age had it worse and that was during the time of Jesus.

This is True, for the summary of it is that people thought they Knew good and evil, like me, only for us to fail and fall.

I figured out that those who broke out of this box are those who 'real eyesed" that they were foolish (today we say stupid) and did not know anything.

And it is Only Wisdom Who points it out!

Myer:

The question is what then is good and what is evil?

Because according to the bible (both old and new testaments) theres actually no set good or evil.
But simply whatever God decides per time.

Very Beautiful Question which is one of the Lessons Wisdom Teaches!

Shall we proceed on this question?

NO JW involves in sports!
So when you find anyone claiming JW in sports then know that he or she is just one of our Bible students who wish people to regard them as JWs.
JWs have a trademark which is carrying our bags to preach from house to house and door to door, of course you know that Anthony Joshua can't do that nah!
So our youths don't engage in sports but some do entertain themselves watching sports and it's wrong for any of us to love violent sports! Psalms 11:5
As for alcohoic beverages Jesus also took it responsibly so it's not wrong Sir, however when talking about the menace in our society even the person living next to you YES that one standing right beside you there, tell him a JW was involved in some juvenile delinquencies and watch his reaction!
People world over know our youths as the best in virtuous deeds, so don't mix things up like that it's a crime before God when you say "bad is good or good is bad" Isaiah 5:20

Myer:

Our youth includes JW members sir.
Even if you dont watch boxing you have your own interests which other JW members like you will judge you as carnal. Either secular movies or football or JW members kryptonite, alcohol.

Dtruthspeaker:


Ok, the Highlighted narrows how I responded and will respond.

The definition of Wisdom in the Bible is not the same with the dictionary.

The definition of Wisdom is Greater and so Much such that it is "Indefinable".



This is True, for the summary of it is that people thought they Knew good and evil, like me, only for us to fail and fall.

I figured out that those who broke out of this box are those who 'real eyesed" that they were foolish (today we say stupid) and did not know anything.

And it is Only Wisdom Who points it out!



Very Beautiful Question which is one of the Lessons Wisdom Teaches!

Shall we proceed on this question?

I can see you are personifying Wisdom cos the bible also teaches wisdom as Jesus Christ.

By this assertion then the dictionary's definition of word, water, bread, seed, shepherd, teacher, love, blessing, truth, way , life, light, righteousness are wrong as these all mean Jesus too right? Lol

God and Jesus called Solomon wise, does that make him Jesus too?

Words have meaning and that's what dictionary does. It gives you their meaning.
If the bible personifies this in a person it doesn't change the meaning of the words.

Myer:

I can see you are personifying Wisdom cos the bible also teaches wisdom as Jesus Christ.

No I did not! I described the Advantages and Greatness of Wisdom over knowledge.

It is you who jumped the gun in going before me.

And I thought we would be talking about good and evil but you are still hitting at Wisdom, ok, let's finish with Wisdom!

Myer:

By this assertion then the dictionary's definition of word, bread, seed, shepherd, teacher, love, blessing, truth, way , life, light, righteousness are wrong as these all mean Jesus too right? Lol

You keep using the word "Wrong" when I'll say "Grossly Insufficient and inadequate"

Myer:

God and Jesus called Solomon wise, does that make him Jesus too?

Now you are Twisting the Bible, yet you complained when you thought I twisted your statement. Do you see that because you're a Twist, you twist every where? Surely a twist is always blind and does not see well!

To answer your question, you eat bread, yam and food, does it make you bread or yam or food simply because it was given you and it entered you?

Myer:

Words have meaning and that's what dictionary does. It gives you their meaning.

Is it the dictionary who gave words their meaning or the The Maker of Words? Which came first?

Again as I said earlier, people Always think they know but whereas when tested for their knowings, They Found to be Fools, speaking foolishness brazenly and stupidly and knowing not!

And now see all things you have exhibited which clearly show how you know Too Little even though you had your dictionary
1) you do not know the difference between good and evil.

2) you do not know the difference between right and wrongs.

3) you do not know the difference between Sweet Living and death living.

4) you do not know the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge.

5) you do not know the difference between the Bible and your dictionary!

If I keep going on with you, you will be bleeding more "You Do Not Knows" and it's very shameful to see, yet, you thought you knew!


And yet you quoted my Bible which told you that "You Die because you Never know" Hosea 4:6

So can you see now that "You Truly Do Not Know" even with your dictionaries?

Myer:

If the bible personifies this in a person it doesn't change the meaning of the words.

As I said, the Bible has More and is Greater Information of Value and Use whilst your Dictionary is Grossly Inadequate and Hugely Insufficient to make Life Sweet at the least.

Dtruthspeaker:


No I did not! I described the Advantages and Greatness of Wisdom over knowledge.

It is you who jumped the gun in going before me.

And I thought we would be talking about good and evil but you are still hitting at Wisdom, ok, let's finish with Wisdom!



You keep using the word "Wrong" when I'll say "Grossly Insufficient and inadequate"



Now you are Twisting the Bible, yet you complained when you thought I twisted your statement. Do you see that because you're a Twist, you twist every where? Surely a twist is always blind and does not see well!

To answer your question, you eat bread, yam and food, does it make you bread or yam or food simply because it was given you and it entered you?



Is it the dictionary who gave words their meaning or the The Maker of Words? Which came first?

Again as I said earlier, people Always think they know but whereas when tested for their knowings, They Found to be Fools, speaking foolishness brazenly and stupidly and knowing not!

And now see all things you have exhibited which clearly show how you know Too Little even though you had your dictionary
1) you do not know the difference between good and evil.

2) you do not know the difference between right and wrongs.

3) you do not know the difference between Sweet Living and death living.

4) you do not know the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge.

5) you do not know the difference between the Bible and your dictionary!

If I keep going on with you, you will be bleeding more "You Do Not Knows" and it's very shameful to see, yet, you thought you knew!


And yet you quoted my Bible which told you that "You Die because you Never know" Hosea 4:6

So can you see now that "You Truly Do Not Know" even with your dictionaries?



As I said, the Bible has More and is Greater Information of Value and Use whilst your Dictionary is Grossly Inadequate and Hugely Insufficient to make Life Sweet at the least.

One of the advantages of good education is pre-emptive reasoning.
You capitalized Wisdom and also personalised it as Who.

So it's pointless and pretentious denying that you were referring to Jesus.

Myer:

One of the advantages of good education is pre-emptive reasoning.
You capitalized Wisdom and also personalised it as Who.

So it's pointless and pretentious denying that you were referring to Jesus.

There was nothing to deny, you were just too unwisely hasty!

Dtruthspeaker:


There was nothing to deny, you were just too unwisely hasty!

Ok pray tell, what is your meaning of Wisdom?

Myer:

Ok pray tell, what is your meaning of Wisdom?

It is Indefinable but the nearest to capturing it is Only when you see it in Action!

Dtruthspeaker:


No I did not! I described the Advantages and Greatness of Wisdom over knowledge.

It is you who jumped the gun in going before me.

And I thought we would be talking about good and evil but you are still hitting at Wisdom, ok, let's finish with Wisdom!



You keep using the word "Wrong" when I'll say "Grossly Insufficient and inadequate"



Now you are Twisting the Bible, yet you complained when you thought I twisted your statement. Do you see that because you're a Twist, you twist every where? Surely a twist is always blind and does not see well!

To answer your question, you eat bread, yam and food, does it make you bread or yam or food simply because it was given you and it entered you?



Is it the dictionary who gave words their meaning or the The Maker of Words? Which came first?

Again as I said earlier, people Always think they know but whereas when tested for their knowings, They Found to be Fools, speaking foolishness brazenly and stupidly and knowing not!

And now see all things you have exhibited which clearly show how you know Too Little even though you had your dictionary
1) you do not know the difference between good and evil.

2) you do not know the difference between right and wrongs.

3) you do not know the difference between Sweet Living and death living.

4) you do not know the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge.

5) you do not know the difference between the Bible and your dictionary!

If I keep going on with you, you will be bleeding more "You Do Not Knows" and it's very shameful to see, yet, you thought you knew!


And yet you quoted my Bible which told you that "You Die because you Never know" Hosea 4:6

So can you see now that "You Truly Do Not Know" even with your dictionaries?



As I said, the Bible has More and is Greater Information of Value and Use whilst your Dictionary is Grossly Inadequate and Hugely Insufficient to make Life Sweet at the least.

Just the same way the Quran claims to know and the bible doesn't right?

I used to be as religious as you and concluded that everything else was false and only the bible was true.

Since only the bible is true and every human knowledge is false, you should be godly enough to dissociate from every scientific invention since it was a by-product of human knowledge (some of whom are even atheists) and simply focus on missionary works like the bible teaches you to.
After all that is the true wisdom that the bible teaches.

It's pointless arguing with a religious person.
Cos you have been raised to defend your religious books for arguments sake. Except when it's time to practise what it teaches then you remember your logic.

Same reason why a Christian and a Muslim can never agree. Cos they are both religiously blinded by their religious books.

Dtruthspeaker:


It is Indefinable but the nearest to capturing it is Only when you see it in Action!

How then do you recognize it is Wisdom when it can be anything else if it is indefinable?

Myer:

How then do you recognize it is Wisdom when it can be anything else if it is indefinable?

Remember, it is Only The Bible which Tells you what Wisdom is, therefore, based on the Bible's Description of it, I do Recognize it!

Dtruthspeaker:


Remember, it is Only The Bible which Tells you what Wisdom is, therefore, based on the Bible's Description of it, I do Recognize it!

Then you should be able to describe it using bible reference.

Myer:

Just the same way the Quran claims to know and the bible doesn't right?

I have never really examined the contents of the Quran but the excerpts from it already fall short of Wisdom. Eg Quran opens the door of having more than 1 wife.

Therefore, the Quran does not know Women neither does it know the value of Peace nor peaceful living.

Whilst the Bible emphatically states "He made them male and female not male and females"!

Myer:

I used to be as religious as you and concluded that everything thing else was false and only the bible was true.

Let me skip to the most important part, I believe it was the appearance of "sound" reason which made you transform, so I challenge you and raise myself up, that by sound reason, see if you can make me fall, as some other you had made you fall, when you fell!

Give it your very best shot call on the very people here who made you see the "light" to come, I am here for the "plucking", if you can!

Myer:

Since only the bible is true and every human knowledge is false, you should be godly enough to dissociate from every scientific invention since it was a by-product of human knowledge (some of whom are even atheists) and simply focus on missionary works like the bible teaches you to.

After all that is the true wisdom that the bible teaches..

The Bible is not against every invention, it is Against Every Form and Face of Bad, Wickedness and Great Wickedness called evil.

So they only thing I need to dissociate from is all the faces and forms of wickedness.

(Aside, atheist are not truly atheistic as you think and as you wish to be, they are Truly Haters of God, knowing that God Spoils their evil works because they have a passion and love for doing wickedness and evil. And it is not because they do not know God, it is rather the opposite, which is because they Know Him and that He Shall Always Be Against their wicked works and condemn their evil selfs! Atheist are actually Satanist who can not confidently claim and show that they are Satanist, so they played into the "grey area" of the foolish minds of men, knowing with time, they'll be able to "employ" men for their protection and even have numbers so that they could plan an attack on God, exactly as you are now doing.

Myer:

It's pointless arguing with a religious person.

You were religious yourself and yet someone got you. Surely, it is that you were not religious (but you foolishly thought so) and someone got you or the person did a "marvelous" work on you, and got you.

And right now you see that you can not replicate that marvelous work on me, so why don't you call the person who Dracula'd you successfully to come Dracula me, to see whether something was Truly wrong with you and your "religion" or whether it is Always something wrong with me in holding on to "religion" or something Wrong with the Vampire, Dracula!

Myer:

Cos you have been raised to defend your religious books for arguments sake. Except when it's time to practise what it teaches then you remember your logic.

do you see the contradiction in your statement?

"Defend the Bible" vs. "Practice what the Bible instructs", Are you Fleeing Already and pleading to be excused?

The Topic is Defence of the Bible, in Focus "Wisdom" and not whether I practice what the Bible instructs, that's a separate Topic.

So let's stick to the Topic and not depart from it, which is "Defence of Bible, Wisdom!" Ok?

Fleeing to Another Topic is Abandonment of Battle Ship and Fleeing and Loss.

Stand as a Soldier and die as one or be victorious as one, but do not Flee the battle else, YOU ARE A COWARD AND A GOATROOM!

Myer:

Same reason why a Christian and a Muslim can never agree. Cos they are both religiously blinded by their religious books.

Stop Abandoning your Battle Ship with your Chang of Post. We are not Battling on "Christian vs Muslim Agreement" but we are Battling on "Defence of Bible, Wisdom!".

Stand and Fight to Victory or Defeat.

Change of Post is Abandonment and Abandonment is Defeat! Stand and Fight to death, if you think you are Strong!

Weak Atheist! Stand and Fight and Do Not Flee!

Myer:


Then you should be able to describe it using bible reference.

You Already know them since you found that Jesus is Wisdom, so I do not need to be repetitive of what you already know, go ahead!

Humans did not begin to exist as a result of mindless evolution and I guess you agree with that. Jehovah molded the first man and told him to recreate. Genesis 1:26-28
So since only he fully understands how the human body and mind functions(1John 3:20), he is therefore in the BEST position to decide how we should live our lives i.e. only Jehovah can give us direction(Isaiah 30:21) because those commandments are for our own benefit. Isaiah 48:17-18
So yes, whatever Jehovah decides as right and wrong is completely correct because he alone is perfect and all his ways are righteous and just. Deuteronomy 32:4

Myer:

Right and wrong are relative to what God decides is right at any specific time.
1. Did Adam know it was wrong to disobey God?
Yes. That's not even myvargument in Adam's case.
But did he understand the consequence of his disobedience?
Did he know what death meant?
Every child was told fire was bad and would burn him but did every child not attempt to touch fire and feel the burn before understanding the consequence?
Adam was a first of mankind..
Have you ever considered his limitations?

Adam had all access pass to Jehovah as in there was barrier in communication between this man formed from dust and his Creator so in one of their conversations, God told him: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.  But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”—Genesis 2:17
So Adam perfectly understood the consequences of his disobedience that he would return back to the dust from which he was formed if he disobeyed. Genesis 2:7, 3:19

2. Adam being immortal was never my opinion. I simply countered another poster.
He claimed Adam was created to live forever until he sinned against God.
My point being if he was created to live for ever how come there was a tree of life in the garden of Eden which God said would make him live for ever?

Adam’s prospect of everlasting life depended on his continued obedience to every one of Jehovah’s commandments. That is why it is said that “Man does not live by bread alone(physical food) but every word that proceeds from Jehovah’s mouth(spiritual food/life-saving instructions)”—Deuteronomy 8:3 see also Matthew 4:4
Adam despised life-saving instructions from Jehovah therefore he was no longer fit to live. Genesis 3:19

3. God lying to Pharaoh, I understand that is a hard one to chew but do you at least agree that it was God who hardened his heart so that he won't release the Israelites just so he could prove that he is God with signs and wonders?

My earlier response to this was:

It can only be a lie if God didn’t have the power to liberate Israel without going through all that rigorous process. Even God said the reason why he kept Pharaoh alive was so he could show his power before the eyes of the nations. Exodus 9:16

Well, God never hardened Pharaoh’s heart. The King James translation of Romans 9:18 renders the scripture in such a way that makes it seem that way but close look at context shows that God allowed Pharaoh to show his stubbornness so that the nations would know that Jehovah the true God was backing Israel. Romans 9:17

DappaD:
Humans did not begin to exist as a result of mindless evolution and I guess you agree with that. Jehovah molded the first man and told him to recreate. Genesis 1:26-28
So since only he fully understands how the human body and mind functions(1John 3:20), he is therefore in the BEST position to decide how we should live our lives i.e. only Jehovah can give us direction(Isaiah 30:21) because those commandments are for our own benefit. Isaiah 48:17-18
So yes, whatever Jehovah decides as right and wrong is completely correct because he alone is perfect and all his ways are righteous and just. Deuteronomy 32:4



Adam had all access pass to Jehovah as in there was barrier in communication between this man formed from dust and his Creator so in one of their conversations, God told him: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.  But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”—Genesis 2:17
So Adam perfectly understood the consequences of his disobedience that he would return back to the dust from which he was formed if he disobeyed. Genesis 2:7, 3:19



Adam’s prospect of everlasting life depended on his continued obedience to every one of Jehovah’s commandments. That is why it is said that “Man does not live by bread alone(physical food) but every word that proceeds from Jehovah’s mouth(spiritual food/life-saving instructions)”—Deuteronomy 8:3 see also Matthew 4:4
Adam despised life-saving instructions from Jehovah therefore he was no longer fit to live. Genesis 3:19



My earlier response to this was:


Well, God never hardened Pharaoh’s heart. The King James translation of Romans 9:18 renders the scripture in such a way that makes it seem that way but close look at context shows that God allowed Pharaoh to show his stubbornness so that the nations would know that Jehovah the true God was backing Israel. Romans 9:17

This is an inconsistent argument.
Only God knows how the human mind works yet he judged Adam and Even for falling to temptation?

Remember the bible never mentioned how long they lived in Eden before they finally fell for the temptation.
It could be over a thousand years before they finally fell to the temptation.

Meaning since God knew how the human mind works he also knew they would eventually fall. Right?

How you conclude that Adam "understood" the consequences of his action beats me.

Did you know the meaning of sickness or you finally understood it when you fell sick?
Which was why I gave the analogy of the child and fire.

Yes Adam "knew" that according to God he would die if he ate of the tree. But did he understand the consequences?

Did Adam not see that even after Eve ate of the fruit she actually did not die?
Giving credence to the serpeant that they would not surely die? But rather become wise as God?

But the truth is we are quick to judge Adam and Eve when we ourselves keep falling for petty temptations daily.
God says do not lie. Have you lied this week?
God says do not get angry. Have you gotten angry this week?
God says do not lust. Have you lusted this week? Lusted after money, women, power?

Yet you are a child of God who Jesus has died for and you keeping falling for these temptations. So how then can you blame Adam and Eve who did not even have a foreknowledge of the consequences of their actions!

Myer:

This is an inconsistent argument.
Only God knows how the human mind works yet he judged Adam and Even for falling to temptation?
Remember the bible never mentioned how long they lived in Eden before they finally fell for the temptation.
It could be over a thousand years before they finally fell to the temptation.
Meaning since God knew how the human mind works he also knew they would eventually fall. Right?
How you conclude that Adam "understood" the consequences of his action beats me.
Did you know the meaning of sickness or you finally understood it when you fell sick?
Which was why I gave the analogy of the child and fire.
Yes Adam "knew" that according to God he would die if he ate of the tree. But did he understand the consequences?
Did Adam not see that even after Eve ate of the fruit she actually did not die?
Giving credence to the serpeant that they would not surely die? But rather become wise as God?
But the truth is we are quick to judge Adam and Eve when we ourselves keep falling for petty temptations daily.
God says do not lie. Have you lied this week?
God says do not get angry. Have you gotten angry this week?
God says do not lust. Have you lusted this week? Lusted after money, women, power?
Yet you are a child of God who Jesus has died for and you keeping falling for these temptations. So how then can you blame Adam and Eve who did not even have a foreknowledge of the consequences of their actions!

See what trying to look for inconsistences in the Bible has led you to become.
Adam perfectly understood the consequences of his disobedience so if you say otherwise that is your cup of tea. After all Genesis 2:17 is there for you yet you cannot refute the scripture. And yet you cannot prove that Adam didn’t know the consequences of disobedience? Meanwhile Genesis 2:17 is there proving otherwise.


Concerning the highlighted, haven’t we gone over this before?

DappaD:

Well, Adam and Eve actually died that day from God’s standpoint because they didn’t last up to a millennia—which is a day in God’s eyes(Psalm 90:4, 2Peter 3:8.)
From a human standpoint, look at it this way, if you cut off a branch from its source of life(tree), does it instantly disappear or continually wither until it completely fades away into nonexistence? That’s what happened with Adam and Eve. They became alienated from God the day they decided eat of the tree and so they continually to wither away until they returned back to the dust of the earth as God had said would happen. Genesis 3:19

DappaD:


See what trying to look for inconsistences in the Bible has led you to become.
Adam perfectly understood the consequences of his disobedience so if you say otherwise that is your cup of tea. After all Genesis 2:17 is there for you yet you cannot refute the scripture. And yet you cannot prove that Adam didn’t know the consequences of disobedience? Meanwhile Genesis 2:17 is there proving otherwise.


Concerning the highlighted, haven’t we gone over this before?

It is more difficult to avoid seeing and acknowledging the inconsistencies though.
You can read up my thread about that to know how obvious they are.

But that's not even the issue here. The issue is that you who disobeys God every day is here judging Adam and Eve for disobeying God once.
Even as new creations who have been reborn with the "seed of Christ" overcoming the seed of Adam in Christians , you still continue to disobey God.

So disobeying God was eventually inevitable.
How do we know this?
Because even in heaven prior to the creation of man even the angels disobeyed God and war broke out in heaven.

Concerning man not dying instantly, you still haven't been able to answer the purpose of the tree of life which was why God chased them out of the garden just so they would not live forever in a sinful nature.

Genesis 3: 23
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.

Myer:

It is more difficult to avoid seeing and acknowledging the inconsistencies though.
You can read up my thread about that to know how obvious they are.
But that's not even the issue here. The issue is that you who disobeys God every day is here judging Adam and Eve for disobeying God once.
Even as new creations who have been reborn with the "seed of Christ" overcoming the seed of Adam in Christians , you still continue to disobey God.
So disobeying God was eventually inevitable.
How do we know this?
Because even in heaven prior to the creation of man even the angels disobeyed God and war broke out in heaven.
Concerning man not dying instantly, you still haven't been able to answer the purpose of the tree of life which was why God chased them out of the garden just so they would not live forever in a sinful nature.
Genesis 3: 23
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.

Bold of you to assume the kind of person I am in real life because you’re intent on making a point. There is no “righteous” person on earth who has not at some point sinned(Ecclesiastes 7:20) because we all inherited sinned from Adam(the man you’re trying to push blame away from).(Romans 5:12) which means that his descendants are also prone to make mistakes. James 3:2
But what does God look out for before forgiveness even though someone may have committed the worst of sins? First, the sinner must be repentant and feel sorry for the wrong he has done and Jehovah will welcome him with open arms and forget his error(Psalm 86:5). Second, the sin must not be categorized under the kind that incurs death as such makes a person irredeemable. 1John 5:16-17 see also Matthew 12:31-32
Adam failed on both accounts because after he knew that he sinned, he wasn’t repentant instead he was busy trading blames(Genesis 3:12) and Jehovah specifically told him that if he ate of the tree he would return to dust. Genesis 2:17
So Mr Myer next time know how to talk to somebody instead of assuming we’re all one and the same.

DappaD:


Bold of you to assume the kind of person I am in real life because you’re intent on making a point. There is no “righteous” person on earth who has not at some point sinned(Ecclesiastes 7:20) because we all inherited sinned from Adam(the man you’re trying to push blame away from).(Romans 5:12) which means that his descendants are also prone to make mistakes. James 3:2
But what does God look out for before forgiveness even though someone may have committed the worst of sins? First, the sinner must be repentant and feel sorry for the wrong he has done and Jehovah will welcome him with open arms and forget his error(Psalm 86:5). Second, the sin must not be categorized under the kind that incurs death as such makes a person irredeemable. 1John 5:16-17 see also Matthew 12:31-32
Adam failed on both accounts because after he knew that he sinned, he wasn’t repentant instead he was busy trading blames(Genesis 3:12) and Jehovah specifically told him that if he ate of the tree he would return to dust. Genesis 2:17
So Mr Myer next time know how to talk to somebody instead of assuming we’re all one and the same.

I did not assume. The bible itself made the assumption. Psalm 14:3, Romans 3:10
1 John 1:8-10
If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth.
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

I was making a generic statement concerning how we are quick to judge Adam and Eve for 1 sin. Yet it's almost impossible to stay sin free for even a day considering what Jesus enumerated as sins in Matthew 5:17-48.
Even as a new creation.

You rightly said Adam and Eve would have been forgiven if only they asked for forgiveness.
You know this from reading examples in the bible that God forgives a repentant heart.
Once again I must remind you that they were the First humans meaning they did not even know what asking for forgiveness meant, having never sinned before.

Meaning though they were wrong, they never knew what to do to make it right. And God never told them that.

CharisEleos:
Try to read and understand the Bible very well before making conclusions.

God never liked about their death because the death he meant was not instant death as mankind was not supposed to see death according to creation plan but death came unto mankind as a result of their disobedience which was why Adam and Eve grew old and died. Even the generations that followed up till now.

A reading of the Bible would show this explanation of yours to be false. When God saw Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil he said in Genesis 3:22 "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
This obviously shows they would've lived forever regardless had they eaten the fruit of life even if they then ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. so their eating the fruit isn't really the reason they're dying physically but their failure to eat the fruit from the tree of life

hopefulLandlord:
A reading of the Bible would show this explanation of yours to be false. When God saw Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil he said in Genesis 3:22 "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
This obviously shows they would've lived forever regardless had they eaten the fruit of life even if they then ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. so their eating the fruit isn't really the reason they're dying physically but their failure to eat the fruit from the tree of life

I don't know why you people like to read only a part of the Bible and leave out the other part just to back up your claims.

Now what does this In verse 3 mean?
Genesis 3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it,

lest ye die

.


Now, the part you quoted simply shows that they were allowed to eat of the tree of life ( in order to live long) as long as they didn't eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. But God seeing that they have eaten the forbidden had to stop them because allowing them to live forever haven acquired such knowledge would be a disaster to God s creation or pose a threat or danger to God's kingdom and kingship just like the devil tried to divide and challenge God's authority.

Invite the holy Spirit whenever you want to study the word of God for proper understanding.

CharisEleos:


I don't know why you people like to read only a part of the Bible and leave out the other part just to back up your claims.

Now what does this In verse 3 mean?
Genesis 3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, .


Now, the part you quoted simply shows that they were allowed to eat of the tree of life ( in order to live long) as long as they didn't eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. But God seeing that they have eaten the forbidden had to stop them because allowing them to live forever haven acquired such knowledge would be a disaster to God s creation or pose a threat or danger to God's kingdom and kingship just like the devil tried to divide and challenge God's authority.

Invite the holy Spirit whenever you want to study the word of God for proper understanding.

I believe the bible says where 2 or 3 are gathered in the name of Jesus, he is there. So we have invited the Holyspirit since this post is about the bible and the bible is about Jesus Christ. The Holyspirit being the Spirit of Christ.

So let's dissect the verses together with the help of the Helper.

Genesis 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Genesis 3:2-3
And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.

First inconsistency.
Eve said God said even by touching the tree they would die.

Second inconsistency.
From the quoted verses they were not meant to die if they had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Right? Wrong.

If they were not meant to die, why was there a tree of life?
Why did God have to chase them out of the garden simply to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and living forever in the sinful state?

Are you saying the tree of life was not meant for them had they not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
Was it a back up plan because God knew they would fall and eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

If God knew? Then why blame them for following God's plan?

Myer:


I believe the bible says where 2 or 3 are gathered in the name of Jesus, he is there. So we have invited the Holyspirit since this post is about the bible and the bible is about Jesus Christ. The Holyspirit being the Spirit of Christ.

So let's dissect the verses together with the help of the Helper.

Genesis 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Genesis 3:2-3
And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.

First inconsistency.
Eve said God said even by touching the tree they would die.

Second inconsistency.
From the quoted verses they were not meant to die if they had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Right? Wrong.

If they were not meant to die, why was there a tree of life?
Why did God have to chase them out of the garden simply to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and living forever in the sinful state?

Are you saying the tree of life was not meant for them had they not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
Was it a back up plan because God knew they would fall and eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

If God knew? Then why blame them for following God's plan?

You just ended twisting the whole thing and confusing yourself the more.

Please go back and read my last comment carefully.

CharisEleos:


You just ended twisting the whole thing and confusing yourself the more.

Please go back and read my last comment carefully.

Easy route avoiding the questions. It's ok to say you do not know. It's actually pride to claim to know when you do not know.