Ibime:


Fernandes is not on tackles chart so getting dribbled past is not an indicator of his style of play. Like I said, when you see a player on both charts, you are talking style of play not inefficiency. Fernandes getting dribbled is easy - he plays in an area of the pitch with plenty space and tries to press up so easy to drift past him into space. You are more likely to try to dribble past a man who is isolated without teammates around him, and that's why Fernandes is often dribbled because he keeps too much space between himself and his DMs due to how high he plays.

Your theory on Fernandes is purely based on calculated assumptions. They are subject to errors at times. Fernandes is dribbled often because he is not a good tackler and often mistimes his movement. He easily get body-feinted too and he is not bothered because that is not what he is known for. Mount won't get dribbled like Fernandes because his game is predicated on high press. So, Fernandes' position on the chart negates your earlier claim that being dribbled often is an indicator how often a player tackles. According to you, a player dribbled often must be seen in the highest tackle chart.


This is an asinine conclusion. Charts are against other players, not against ones own performance. You could be top of the chart for tackles with 2 tackles per game, and 10th for dribble past with 10 dribbles past or game. Is that a marginal efficiency?


You again conspicuously avoided the word 'proportionately'. The amount of successful tackles relative to total tackles should have a positive sign. If it does, you are efficient in tackling. That's just the simple interpretation of what I meant.

If we compare AWB's total number of tackles to his number of successful tackles, you'd see he would have a better coefficient than Horjberg. The simple reason is that, Bissaka is a better tackler and is hardly ever dribbled.

Leyqute:


Exactly. Timo to score in the final, win golden boot.

Omo ologo

Gawd help you if this your prediction actually comes to pass. Na me go troll you pass for this forum

Conte don japa

Conte to Spurs or Arsenal?
I hope not

donstan18:
Werner, Tammy and Mount won’t be bad against City.

in my language :
Tani Tammy?

donstan18:

Jorg, Busquet and Rodri are examples of escort Dm. They don’t engage opponents, they are only useful when they have the ball because of their passing abilities, not when opponents are penetrating with the ball.

The likes of Hberg, Kante, Fred, Fernandiho, Ndidi and Rice will be dribbled because they engage players a lot and it’s normal for them not to succeed anytime they engage players which is why they get dribbled sometimes.


This shouldn’t be hard to understand, unless you are trolling.

If e sure Pep, he should bench Fernandiho and buy another Rodri to use.

What is this ?

swiz123:


Your theory on Fernandes is purely based on calculated assumptions. They are subject to errors at times. Fernandes is dribbled often because he is not a good tackler and often mistimes his movement. He easily get body-feinted too and he is not bothered because that is not what he is known for. Mount won't get dribbled like Fernandes because his game is predicated on high press. So, Fernandes' position on the chart negates your earlier claim that being dribbled often is an indicator how often a player tackles. According to you, a player dribbled often must be seen in the highest tackle chart.

Not that Fernandes is a good tackler but the highest contributor to the reason he gets dribbled is because Manure play in two phases. Their front 4 is always separated from their back 6 so it is easy to run past Fernandes and know that you have 15 yards of space to run into before you meet Fred and McTominay. No other team in EPL has such gap between midfield and attack. Anything Fernandes does to stop someone running into that space is a token effort. Him self knows he can't stop it 9 times out of 10 cos the space is too much.

On the other hand, nobody will bother to dribble Jorginho knowing that within 3 yards, you will bump into Rudiger, Thiago or Chris.

Put Jorginho in the kind of space Hojberg operates in, and every player in the Premier League will just knock the ball past him and rãpe him. That's what makes him an escort, and he practically avoids one-on-one and hides within a community of defenders around him every game to avoid such situations, preferring to point to others than engage. Hojberg on the other hand operates in space and is often in a do-or-die situation with more riding on his ability to stop the man one-on-one.

On the other hand, everytime Jorginho face someone one-on-one in space, we get a good gif to laugh at eg him Vs Robertson at Anfield last season or the Son situation donstan posted earlier.

Intelligence ko, intelligence ni. Brain of Einstein can't help you when you are physically deficient. Everybody will rãpe Jorginho one-on-one, so he prefers to hide amongst bodies and you call that intelligent. When has Jorginho ever left the midfield to engage someone on the byline when a fullback is out of position. I hope you know that's one of DMs primary duties, something DMs like Fabinho do multiple times per game. Makelele was known for that too. I've never seen Jorginho on line, he will rather call for centreback to go out there, breaking our defensive structure.

Last time even Rodri came out to byline to meet a slow striker like Kane, he was running behind Kane looking up to heavens for salvation. That's escort 101.

Melvyn11:

If David Luiz was sensible and not rushing to meet Son like a mad man that goal wouldn't have happen. David Luiz rushed out like Højbjerg would have done with out thinking properly .

Thank you


Anybody who is not up for some agenda should know this .

If David Luiz was not stupid,that should have been a clean turn over for them. I'm sure if we go back to when this match was played my comment here will be on how David Luiz was stupid.

donstan18:

Son stopped, and then moved again.

Watch from 0:08 to 0:12...
https://twitter.com/mundialmag/status/1331161383648555014?s=21

David came out to engage/challenge him and got dribbled, reason i earlier told you that escorts don’t get dribbled because they don’t engage.

If Jorg had wanted to engage Son and not escort him. He would have made use of these lines to wait for him.

Jorg Na escort. He had all the time in the world to engage and challenge Son.

Pls stop this .

You are exposing David Luiz stupidity for the world to see with this. Anybody with half football brain should know that david Luiz should have calmly dealt with that ball cus of his position.

donstan18:

Escorts don’t mark, they don’t face opponents, they don’t attempt to challenge them.

They escort them to do what they want to do and how they want to do it. How can a player dribble an escort that didn’t challenge him?

Una no dey watch ball?

I remember when airmark dem dey rate VVD on not getting dribbled
How can you get dribbled when you avoid it

airmark:


Even in real life escorts won't tackle you.

VVD says hi

donstan18:

Jorg, Busquet and Rodri are examples of escort Dm. They don’t engage opponents, they are only useful when they have the ball because of their passing abilities, not when opponents are penetrating with the ball.

The likes of Hberg, Kante, Fred, Fernandiho, Ndidi and Rice will be dribbled because they engage players a lot and it’s normal for them not to succeed anytime they engage players which is why they get dribbled sometimes.


This shouldn’t be hard to understand, unless you are trolling.

If e sure Pep, he should bench Fernandiho and buy another Rodri to use.

Which one is VVD who didnt get dribbled in a year?

thorrvik55:
Conte to Spurs or Arsenal?
I hope not

I hope not.


He should go to Spain

User09:
I'll be sitting here pretty when Jorginho bosses the so called Fernandinho in midfield this weekend.

Severely underrated by Chelsea fans

I don't underrate him because of his defensive deficiencies,I don't even know if he got one, but for the fact is that he is completely useless with the ball. Playmaker are often suppose to be the most intelligent players on the field because of their abilities to have their eyes at the back of their head,and also to turn defense into attack but this simple thing is lacking in jorginho's game .

popizaino:


I don't underrate him because of his defensive deficiencies,I don't even know if he got one, but for the fact is that he is completely useless with the ball. Playmaker are often suppose to be the most intelligent players on the field because of their abilities to have their eyes at the back of their head,and also to turn defense into attack but this simple thing is lacking in jorginho's game .

Well I agree with your point about his attacking transition play but you have always had blind spot when it comes to defensive responsibilities. It is good you kuku said you don't know anything about the defensive responsibilities of that position, which is why you are equally off the mark when it comes to Fabregas and Mikel in those positions.

My view on DM is simple. A DM passing, receiving of the ball and defending must be 7/10, at the very least 6/10. I don't need a 10/10 in one attribute and 0/10 in the other. I also believe the person in that position must be fairly fast to stop counterattacks as every modern team plays highline now and their weak area is getting caught on counterattack when they have escort DMs like Jorginho, Busquets and Rodri. If you don't have this pace in that position, it will often force the manager to deviate from attacking set-up and set-up low block with team sitting deep so that the escort doesn't get exposed. This is what TT has been doing for Jorginho. Our team can never move forward and establish an attacking pattern of play with such DM. Escort like Rodri is lucky Pep is willing to take the risk of keeping the highline, but he has better ball keepers to mitigate those counterattacks such that opportunities for counterattack are minimised, and superfast defenders like Walker and Cancelo to mitigate against Rodris absence on any counterattack while Rodri is still on halfway line jogging back slowly.

raumdeuter:


I remember when airmark dem dey rate VVD on not getting dribbled
How can you get dribbled when you avoid it

raumdeuter:


VVD says hi

The only tackling escort.

raumdeuter:


I remember when airmark dem dey rate VVD on not getting dribbled
How can you get dribbled when you avoid it

VVD is smart..
he knows when to go and when to hold his position which is why he's the best at what he does

thorrvik55:
Conte to Spurs or Arsenal?
I hope not

God forbid

airmark:






The only tackling escort.

kendrick9:
VVD is smart..
he knows when to go and when to hold his position which is why he's the best at what he does

Thank you o.

See as he bullied his Lewandowski to submission last time he led Liverpool to defile his team in Munich.

Ibime:


Not that Fernandes is a good tackler but the highest contributor to the reason he gets dribbled is because Manure play in two phases. Their front 4 is always separated from their back 6 so it is easy to run past Fernandes and know that you have 15 yards of space to run into before you meet Fred and McTominay. No other team in EPL has such gap between midfield and attack. Anything Fernandes does to stop someone running into that space is a token effort. Him self knows he can't stop it 9 times out of 10 cos the space is too much.

On the other hand, nobody will bother to dribble Jorginho knowing that within 3 yards, you will bump into Rudiger, Thiago or Chris.

Put Jorginho in the kind of space Hojberg operates in, and every player in the Premier League will just knock the ball past him and rãpe him. That's what makes him an escort, and he practically avoids one-on-one and hides within a community of defenders around him every game to avoid such situations, preferring to point to others than engage. Hojberg on the other hand operates in space and is often in a do-or-die situation with more riding on his ability to stop the man one-on-one.

On the other hand, everytime Jorginho face someone one-on-one in space, we get a good gif to laugh at eg him Vs Robertson at Anfield last season or the Son situation donstan posted earlier.

Intelligence ko, intelligence ni. Brain of Einstein can't help you when you are physically deficient. Everybody will rãpe Jorginho one-on-one, so he prefers to hide amongst bodies and you call that intelligent. When has Jorginho ever left the midfield to engage someone on the byline when a fullback is out of position. I hope you know that's one of DMs primary duties, something DMs like Fabinho do multiple times per game. Makelele was known for that too. I've never seen Jorginho on line, he will rather call for centreback to go out there, breaking our defensive structure.

Last time even Rodri came out to byline to meet a slow striker like Kane, he was running behind Kane looking up to heavens for salvation. That's escort 101.

You are drifting from our arguement. I never compared Jorginho with Horjberg. I am fully aware of Jorgs deficiencies.

My arguement is that Horjberg is not good at tackling like his style of play where he pants up and down the pitch..... Forming serious activity.

His lack of efficiency is seen in his team's league position.

swiz123:


You are drifting from our arguement. I never compared Jorginho with Horjberg. I am fully aware of Jorgs deficiencies.

My arguement is that Horjberg is not good at tackling like his style of play where he pants up and down the pitch panting.... Forming serious activity.

His lack of efficiency is seen in his team's league position.

He is the third best in his team. Every other player in that team had a poor season apart from him, Kane and Son. That's the reason for their league position. 3 players cannot make a team.

Hojberg performance this season would win Chelsea POTY for the past two seasons that they had to give to Kovacic and Mount in the absence of a serious contender. Jorginho was nowhere near the conversation despite the bar being set so low.

Even in passing, Hojberg has the 2nd highest pass volume this season. Jorginhos deficiencies are clear, he is a ninny. But his so called strength of passing is not even above Hojberg. Someone who would throw passes against Sheffield United yet get bullied by common Nakamba and McGinn, Ndidi and Tielemans. Jorginho has no strengths my friend, unless you are talking against Sheffield United, Newcastle or Palace.

Leyqute:


Exactly. Timo to score in the final, win golden boot.

Omo ologo

careful what you wish for o

popizaino:


I don't underrate him because of his defensive deficiencies,I don't even know if he got one, but for the fact is that he is completely useless with the ball. Playmaker are often suppose to be the most intelligent players on the field because of their abilities to have their eyes at the back of their head,and also to turn defense into attack but this simple thing is lacking in jorginho's game .

He's a regista, Maybe if he was further up the pitch, u can look for the defense splitting passes. He's not even doing badly in this regard, He has the most through passes among all our players this season only behind Timo

Jorginho is very key to our organization and contrary to popular belief, Jorginho actually performs better and shows more control under pressure. He draws opposition players in before passing backwards, sideways or turning out and moving forward. A very solid recycler

One day when I'm in the mood i'll bring up the stats which shows how we perform significantly better with a Jorginho vs without him -Well there's always the correlation causation part - but the sample size is too large to ignore.

Hardly ever injured despite playing quite a lot of games under TT. We know his limitation yeah but we also know how he's important to our tactics and organization

kendrick9:
VVD is smart..
he knows when to go and when to hold his position which is why he's the best at what he does

Of course that was why he held his position and ran away from Morata

Just like he did with Martial

airmark:


Thank you o.

See as he bullied his Lewandowski to submission last time he led Liverpool to defile his team in Munich.

How did he fare vs Aston Villa?

timbros:


I will stop here for now since, to you, football started in 1990 and a competitions format doesn't matter.

I rest my case

England was once world power, if we want to talk about how great America is

Someone starts bringing 1700 details to argue against American greatness, how you go reason the point? i'm not saying that the past doesn't matter but growth can't be viewed looking far back like that

Growth of European football began 1990 and since then no one has come close to them, even the lamest team in Europe will easily beat the best team in Africa, how many Denmark give Nigeria that year

And these teams like their leagues are getting better, almost all the talented young players today are Europeans.

User09:


He's a regista, Maybe if he was further up the pitch, u can look for the defense splitting passes. He's not even doing badly in this regard, He has the most through passes among all our players this season only behind Timo

Jorginho is very key to our organization and contrary to popular belief, Jorginho actually performs better and shows more control under pressure. He draws opposition players in before passing backwards, sideways or turning out and moving forward. A very solid recycler

One day when I'm in the mood i'll bring up the stats which shows how we perform significantly better with a Jorginho vs without him -Well there's always the correlation causation part - but the sample size is too large to ignore.

Hardly ever injured despite playing quite a lot of games under TT. We know his limitation yeah but we also know how he's important to our tactics and organization

Nigerians expect agberotic behavior from all players, I have noticed that, especially among Chelsea fans, football is more than gra gra

raumdeuter:


Of course that was why he held his position and ran away from Morata

Just like he did with Martial

When faced in a one on one situation on a counter,the worst thing you do as a defender is to dive in or overcommit especially against fast tricky attackers.
Or you risk being disgraced

kendrick9:

When faced in one on one situation on a counter,the worst thing you do as a defender is to dive in or overcommit especially against fast tricky attackers.
Or you risk being disgraced

Top defenders dont run away from getting dribbled they get stuck in not to be running away from Martial

I understand the PTSD he had from playing Martial giving how he was injured in a dribble and had to be treated by Martial

How many times in football have we seen someone dribbled so badly and the dribbler had to treat him

martial not only destroyed vvd, he had to cure him so he can dribble again, No wonder vvd saw him and fled

raumdeuter:


Top defenders dont run away from getting dribbled they get stuck in not to be running away from Martial

I understand the PTSD he had from playing Martial giving how he was injured in a dribble and had to be treated by Martial

How many times in football have we seen someone dribbled so badly and the dribbler had to treat him

martial not only destroyed vvd, he had to cure him so he can dribble again, No wonder vvd saw him and fled

Van djik was just coming from Scotland, this game was his home debut for Southampton.
Since then he's gone on to bigger things like being voted the best player in Europe

kendrick9:

Van djik was just coming from Scotland, this game was his home debut for Southampton.
Since then he's gone on to bigger things like being the voted the best player in Europe

Which Land was he coming from when Hwang manhandled him. Holland, England or KuvukiLand