theTranslator:

you are still revising??
even your brothers have deserted you

go and lie no more

My bro I thought you have some intelligence, and that you wanted to keep the record straight. If so, you should have answered @Gidgiddy questions.

It's hard to see people have clean intelligent conversation here.

Coldie:

Mumu shutup

I am just holding back not to sound like a tribalist if not I for mk u regret quoting me.


Don't push me

ha ha make who regret? look at this nyamiri osu caste

wordcat:


Why were there still regional Governors during and 8months & some weeks after the death of Ironsi?

I thought you can read sir
you would have seen "powers"

now reread the post sir

WhatCanIsay:


My bro I thought you have some intelligence, and that you wanted to keep the record straight. If so, you should have answered @Gidgiddy questions.

It's hard to see people have clean intelligent conversation here.

he's trying to play ”lawyer" with the truth

I don't do that sir

tit:

Child of perdition and hatred.

I expected better from you! did I lie ma?

theTranslator:

I am sure that if Ojukwu waited 2,3,4 months with dialogue and good rapport je would have gotten it

but what did he do?
rushed into declaring biafra
and see where we are now
tell your people to stop trying to change history
thank you sir.

Why did Gowon turn his back on the Aburi accord?

Icumsa45:


Why did Gowon turn his back on the Aburi accord?

He is alive
Ask him

theTranslator:

He is alive
Ask him

I am asking you because you seem to know more about the subject, because you accused ojukwu of rushing to declare Biafra .

Icumsa45:


Why did Gowon turn his back on the Aburi accord?

Because the other regions rejected the Aburi accord after it had been signed, especially the Midwest region. In a letter to general Gowon Prince Akenzua of Benin Kingdom rejected the Aburi Accord.

wirinet:

Because the other regions rejected the Aburi accord after it had been signed, especially the Midwest region. In a letter to general Gowon Prince Akenzua of Benin Kingdom rejected the Aburi Accord.

Do you have references to this? Because it was unanimously agreed. The civil war would have been averted if all kept to the accord.

Icumsa45:


Do you have references to this? Because it was unanimously agreed. The civil war would have been averted if all kept to the accord.

Who unanimously agreed? We're the regions represented at Aburi?
What what happened here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJLE8GGmY-I

To me the Aburi accord was a selfish power grab by the military. It would have turned Nigeria into a military oligarchy in the guise of confederation.
What happened to democracy and civilian rule that was truncated by the same power hungry military?

wirinet:

Because the other regions rejected the Aburi accord after it had been signed, especially the Midwest region. In a letter to general Gowon Prince Akenzua of Benin Kingdom rejected the Aburi Accord.

Thats really funny, for 2 reasons.

1) If the Resgions rejected Aburi, then which Regions did Ironsi abolish?

2) Aburi gave the 4 Regions a lot more powers than they had before the first coup. Infact, Aburi more or less made the 4 Regions a confederation because it gave them Regional Military.

So it is mindboggling that an agreement that gave all 4 Regions so much autonomy is what Akenzua was against

But Akenzua had no problems with Gowon changing the Midwest Region to Bendel State, siezing their resources and abrogating the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence

Oba Akenzua must have been a strange man because I dont know what type of person will be angry at something that gives him greater freedom, but happy at something that makes him a slave

I will never understand that one

wirinet:

Who unanimously agreed? We're the regions represented at Aburi?
What what happened here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJLE8GGmY-I

To me the Aburi accord was a selfish power grab by the military. It would have turned Nigeria into a military oligarchy in the guise of confederation.
What happened to democracy and civilian rule that was truncated by the same power hungry military?

It would have turned Nigeris into a military oligarchy in the guise of a confederation?

That would have been much better because Nigeria became a military oligarchy under an unguised full blown unitary system

People think igbo or hausa or yoruba alone are innocent. Few of their leaders were/are. Ahmadu Bello didn't want a Nigerian
independent country early, the east and west were independent already with parts of English Cameroon and could form their own country if they wanted then.. but there was no oil. The northern agriculture was the oil. Azikiwe and Awolowo practically begged Ahmadu to join an independent nigeria. The north produced groudnut and cotton, were self sufficient.

We forget history so soon

gidgiddy:


Thats really funny, for 2 reasons.

1) If the Resgions rejected Aburi, then which Regions did Ironsi abolish?

I am talking about the elected regional representatives before they were overthrown by General Ironsi.

General Ironsi's decree 34 suspended the federal republican constitution of 1963 abolished the regions 3 months earlier. After Godin took over in July 1966, the situation was one of confusion. People though Gowon would return the country back to constitutional democracy, no he instead build on General Ironsi's legacy.

2) Aburi gave the 4 Regions a lot more powers than they had before the first coup. Infact, Aburi more or less made the 4 Regions a confederation because it gave them Regional Military.

How did Aburi give the 4 Regions / provinces more powers when it imposed military leaders on them? How did Aburi give the 4 Regions more powers when the federal government civil service that is responsible to the military head of state controls everything? Is it possible for the regions to have control of their own affairs without their own executives, legislature and civil service?

So it is mindboggling that an agreement that gave all 4 Regions so much autonomy is what Akenzua was against

But Akenzua had no problems with Gowon changing the Midwest Region to Bendel State, siezing their resources and abrogating the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence

Oba Akenzua must have been a strange man because I dont know what type of person will be angry at something that gives him greater freedom, but happy at something that makes him a slave

I will never understand that one

And You think you are wiser than the former Oba of Benin and all representatives of the other 3 regions that rejected the Aburi accord?

gidgiddy:


It would have turned Nigeris into a military oligarchy in the guise of a confederation?

That would have been much better because Nigeria became a military oligarchy under an unguised full blown unitary system

Exactly. That would still have been the fate of Nigeria under the Aburi accord. Confederation could never have worked under a military government. The military operates a unitary command structure. The military heads of the regions would still take their authority and orders from the head of state.

The Aburi accord would have had a chance to work only under a democratic environment, where the people are free to choose their leaders.

One more thing you failed to consider is that the two most powerful military officers at that time - Murtala and Danjuma did not attend the Aburi accord, meaning they disagreed with the whole negotiations. So even if Gowon decided to implement the accord against the wishes of the other regions, what stops Murtala and Danjuma of planing a coup to remove Gowon, and then issue another decree cancelling the whole accord. Thereby plunging us into the war.

It seemed that once the January 1966 coup took place, war was almost inevitable.

wirinet:


Exactly. That would still have been the fate of Nigeria under the Aburi accord. Confederation could never have worked under a military government. The military operates a unitary command structure. The military heads of the regions would still take their authority and orders from the head of state.

The Aburi accord would have had a chance to work only under a democratic environment, where the people are free to choose their leaders.

Lies.
Aburi would have maintained the regions intact and allowed the smooth transition to regionalism once Civilian rule returned in 1979.

Igboid:


Lies.
Aburi would have maintained the regions intact and allowed the smooth transition to regionalism once Civilian rule returned in 1979.

You are making assumptions or should I say excuses that was not in the Aburi accord. The Aburi accord never said anything about returning to civilian rule.
How would the regions be maintained in a military unitary system without elected executives and legislature?

wirinet:

I am talking about the elected regional representatives before they were overthrown by General Ironsi.

General Ironsi's decree 34 suspended the federal republican constitution of 1963 abolished the regions 3 months earlier. After Godin took over in July 1966, the situation was one of confusion. People though Gowon would return the country back to constitutional democracy, no he instead build on General Ironsi's legacy.


How did Aburi give the 4 Regions / provinces more powers when it imposed military leaders on them? How did Aburi give the 4 Regions more powers when the federal government civil service that is responsible to the military head of state controls everything? Is it possible for the regions to have control of their own affairs without their own executives, legislature and civil service?



And You think you are wiser than the former Oba of Benin and all other representatives of the other 3 regions that rejected the Aburi accord?

Look, nobody is arguing that military rule suspended the 1963 constitution, there is no way military rule can operate on a constitution designed for democratic rule. The arguement is if Ironsi abolished the 4 Regions he met when he came in? He did not. All 4 Regions existed throughout Ironsi's rule and several months after he died. It was Gowon that used Decree 14 to abolish the 4 Regions, and replace them with 12 states.

Aburi came about a year after military rule was in place, it did not impose military leaders. However, Aburi gave the 4 Regions confederation status by allowing them to have their own Regional military. Do you know what sort power that is? To have your own military as a Region? I doubt if you even begin to understand that sort of autonomy.

Oba Akenzua and the other 3 Regions rejected Aburi, and what did they get?

The 4 Regions were abolished by Gowon, 12 states were created, resource control was abolished transferred to the centre and the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence was scrapped

In other words, the centre became too strong, the Regions were cut up into 12 weak unitary states. How could Oba Akenzua have preferred this over Aburi? What sort of person chooses a system that makes him weaker, over one that makes him stronger?

The stupidity of Akenzua and others who allowed Gowon and his fellow Northerners to turn them into slaves deserves a medal of honour

wirinet:


You are making assumptions or should I say excuses that was not in the Aburi accord. The Aburi accord never said anything about returning to civilian rule.
How would the regions be maintained in a military unitary system without elected executives and legislature?

Every miliary ruler knows civilian rule would return one day. Many even try to Transit from military to civilian rulers.
What we know for certain is that for regionalism to work, you need the regions intact. Everything else would follow.

Aburi Accord would have ensured the regions remained intact until the return of civilian rule, no matter how long it took.

That's the point.

gidgiddy:


Look, nobody is arguing that military rule suspended the 1963 constitution, there is no way military rule can operate on a constitution designed for democratic rule. The arguement is if Ironsi abolished the 4 Regions he met when he came in? He did not. All 4 Regions existed throughout Ironsi's rule and several months after he died. It was Gowon that used Decree 14 to abolish the 4 Regions, and replace them with 12 states.

Aburi came about a year after military rule was in place, it did not impose military leaders. However, Aburi gave the 4 Regions confederation status by allowing them to have their own Regional military. Do you know what sort power that is? To have your own military as a Region? I doubt if you even begin to understand that sort of autonomy.

Oba Akenzua and the other 3 Regions rejected Aburi, and what did they get?

The 4 Regions were abolished by Gowon, 12 states were created, resource control was abolished transferred to the centre and the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence was scrapped

In other words, the centre became too strong, the Regions were cut up into 12 weak unitary states. How could Oba Akenzua have preferred this over Aburi? What sort of person chooses a system that makes him weaker, over one that makes him stronger?

The stupidity of Akenzua and others who allowed Gowon and his fellow Northerners to turn them into slaves deserves a medal of honour

Nope.
They would hide their stupidity behind Ironsi who died long ago before they made the decision to dissolve the regions and promote abominations they called states thinking they were caging the Igbos.
In trying to Cage the Igbos, they all caged themselves.

gidgiddy:


Look, nobody is arguing that military rule suspended the 1963 constitution, there is no way military rule can operate on a constitution designed for democratic rule. The arguement is if Ironsi abolished the 4 Regions he met when he came in? He did not. All 4 Regions existed throughout Ironsi's rule and several months after he died. It was Gowon that used Decree 14 to abolish the 4 Regions, and replace them with 12 states.

Aburi came about a year after military rule was in place, it did not impose military leaders. However, Aburi gave the 4 Regions confederation status by allowing them to have their own Regional military. Do you know what sort power that is? To have your own military as a Region? I doubt if you even begin to understand that sort of autonomy.

Oba Akenzua and the other 3 Regions rejected Aburi, and what did they get?

The 4 Regions were abolished by Gowon, 12 states were created, resource control was abolished transferred to the centre and the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence was scrapped

In other words, the centre became too strong, the Regions were cut up into 12 weak unitary states. How could Oba Akenzua have preferred this over Aburi? What sort of person chooses a system that makes him weaker, over one that makes him stronger?

The stupidity of Akenzua and others who allowed Gowon and his fellow Northerners to turn them into slaves deserves a medal of honour

Sorry to say your argument is now getting ridiculous. Aburi did not impose military leaders abi? it imposed civilian leaders?
Who appoints the military governors? Who will be the head of state of Nigeria under Aburi? or are you saying Nigeria would have had 4 different heads of states?

How can you have resource control under a unified civil service being controlled by a military head of state that rules by decrees.

The Aburi accord to me was simply power play and power sharing by competing military officers trying to consolidate their hold on power. And Akenzua saw through it.

Igboid:


Every miliary ruler knows civilian rule would return one day. Many even try to Transit from military to civilian rulers.
What we know for certain is that for regionalism to work, you need the regions intact. Everything else would follow.

Aburi Accord would have ensured the regions remained intact until the return of civilian rule, no matter how long it took.

That's the point.

This is just a manta you keep repeating to yourself everyday to make yourself feel good. Aburi would never have worked. The military big boys would have still fought each other to a stand still bringing the while county down with it. Gowon, Ojukwu, Murtala and Danjuma would never have agreed to take orders from any other officer.

Where have you ever seen military rulers relinquish power willingly to civilians? Once military gets to power they never leave except through coup, assassination, Revolution or civil war.

wirinet:

Sorry to say your argument is now getting ridiculous. Aburi did not impose military leaders abi? it imposed civilian leaders?
Who appoints the military governors? Who will be the head of state of Nigeria under Aburi? or are you saying Nigeria would have had 4 different heads of states?

How can you have resource control under a unified civil service being controlled by a military head of state that rules by decrees.

The Aburi accord to me was simply power play and power sharing by competing military officers trying to consolidate their hold on power. And Akenzua saw through it.

Akenzua saw nothing. He was a shortsighted fellow.

Aburi would have preserved the regional structure until a time civilians returned.

Instead out of short-sightedness, Akenzua and co pushed for dissolution of the the regions and creation of dysfunctional states that were still under military rulers.
The creation of those states made it impossible for civilians to return to regionalism once civil rule returned.

The Politicians favoured having their own fiefdoms (states) where they can play god and loot than have bigger regions where there wouldn't be enough sits to go round.

wirinet:


This is just a manta you keep repeating to yourself everyday to make yourself feel good. Aburi would never have worked. The military big boys would have still fought each other to a stand still bringing the while county down with it. Gowon, Ojukwu, Murtala and Danjuma would never have agreed to take orders from any other officer.

Where have you ever seen military rulers relinquish power willingly to civilians? Once military gets to power they never leave except through coup, assassination, Revolution or civil war.

So how did NIGERIA finally return to civilian rule?
Didn't OBJ willingly return power to civilians? What happened to your made up rule of military not handing over power to civilians or you just make these things up as you go?
Even Abacha was planning to transition himself into a civilian ruler before his death.

It's the wish of every miliary ruler to Transit to civilian ruler at a point because they are always scared of the endless circle of military coups that could topple or even take their lives.

Either way, the world powers frown at military dictatorship and would at a point forced them to hand over to civilians.

What do you mean by saying that Aburi would not work because the military big boys would fight each other? Didn't they fight each other even in the dysfunctional 12 state structure? How many coups did NIGERIA have before 1999? How did Murtala Mohammed die?

Igboid:


So how did NIGERIA finally return to civilian rule?
Didn't OBJ willingly return power to civilians? What happened to your made up rule of military not handing over power to civilians or you just make these things up as you go?
Even Abacha was planning to transition himself into a civilian ruler before his death.

OBJ willingly or should I say ran from power simply because he was not part of the coup that brought the government in power. The people that toppled Gowon were Murtala, Danjuma, Yaradua, Dimka, Bisalla. Murtala, Bisalla and Dimka had been eliminated. There was no way OBJ would have remained in office beyond 1978. Remember Gowon was removed because he kept postponing handing over. Dimka and Bisalla were implicated in the attempted coup that killed Murtala.
It was so unusual for military to willingly leave power that OBJ was celebrated for that feat. Till today he remained the only military Head of state to willingly relinquish power.

But the same OBJ reluctantly relinquish power when he had actual power during his civilian administration. If not of serious opposition from both home and abroad, OBJ would probably be doing a 7th term by now.

It's the wish of every miliary ruler to Transit to civilian ruler at a point because they are always scared of the endless circle of military coups that could topple or even take their lives.

Either way, the world powers frown at military dictatorship and would at a point forced them to hand over to civilians.

Most military leaders transmute to civilian leaders for reasons you already stated. Most Arab leaders take that route. The worse is that they impose their sons after they die.

There is little world leaders can do outside sanctions and probably support another coup or insurrection. They would not send their soldiers to remove a military dictator.

What do you mean by saying that Aburi would not work because the military big boys would fight each other? Didn't they fight each other even in the dysfunctional 12 state structure? How many coups did NIGERIA have before 1999? How did Murtala Mohammed die?

Exactly my point. The Aburi accord that imposes military leaders would still result in coups and power play among senior military officers. So Aburi would not have changed anything.

wirinet:

Sorry to say your argument is now getting ridiculous. Aburi did not impose military leaders abi? it imposed civilian leaders?
Who appoints the military governors? Who will be the head of state of Nigeria under Aburi? or are you saying Nigeria would have had 4 different heads of states?

How can you have resource control under a unified civil service being controlled by a military head of state that rules by decrees.

The Aburi accord to me was simply power play and power sharing by competing military officers trying to consolidate their hold on power. And Akenzua saw through it.

Your argument is based on the erroneous assumption that military rule will continue indefinitely after Aburi accord was adopted.
The military was in charge when the resolution was discussed, so you don't expect them to vacate power for civilian rule immediately. The military was expected to implement the accord, pending till there's a transition to democracy.

Eventually, the military left, but the faulty structure remained.

These people just make me laugh. They have repeated the lie that Ironsi abolished Regionalism, for so many years, that they no longer know what fact and what is fiction.

They keep saying that Ironsi abolished the Regions even though they know that the 4 Regions of the time were existing the day Ironsi died

Yankee101:
People think igbo or hausa or yotuba alone are innocent. Few of their leaders were/are. Ahmadu Bello didn't want a Nigerian
independent country, the east and west were independent already with 0arts of English Cameroon and could fotm their own country if they wanted then.. but there was not oil. The northern agriculture was the oil. Azikiwe and Awolowo practically begged Ahmadu to join an independent nigeria. The north produced groudnut and cotton, were self sufficient.

We forget history so soon

Abeg lie small small
Awolowo ɗidnt beg for shit

It was Azikiwe

And the West's cocoa brought the most money

Lie small small

gidgiddy:
These people just make me laugh. They have repeated the lie that Ironsi abolished Regionalism, for so many years, that they no longer know what fact and what is fiction.

They keep saying that Ironsi abolished the Regions even though they know that the 4 Regions of the time were existing the day Ironsi died

It seems you don't know what "powers" mean

wirinet:

OBJ willingly or should I say ran from power simply because he was not part of the coup that brought the government in power. The people that toppled Gowon were Murtala, Danjuma, Yaradua, Dimka, Bisalla. Murtala, Bisalla and Dimka had been eliminated. There was no way OBJ would have remained in office beyond 1978. Remember Gowon was removed because he kept postponing handing over. Dimka and Bisalla were implicated in the attempted coup that killed Murtala.
It was so unusual for military to willingly leave power that OBJ was celebrated for that feat. Till today he remained the only military Head of state to willingly relinquish power.

But the same OBJ reluctantly relinquish power when he had actual power during his civilian administration. If not of serious opposition from both home and abroad, OBJ would probably be doing a 7th term by now.


Most military leaders transmute to civilian leaders for reasons you already stated. Most Arab leaders take that route. The worse is that they impose their sons after they die.

There is little world leaders can do outside sanctions and probably support another coup or insurrection. They would not send their soldiers to remove a military dictator.



Exactly my point. The Aburi accord that imposes military leaders would still result in coups and power play among senior military officers. So Aburi would not have changed anything.

Lol!
Your conclusion has nothing to do with your argument.
Your argument is that military would never hand over to civilian, therefore Aburi would not change anything.
It's a defective argument and I am sure you even know it, it's just that you want to save face, because the same Military still handed over to military in Nigeria, it doesn't matter the circumstances, what matters is that one way or the other they usually hand over.

With or without Aburi, there would be military rulers at that time frame.
But with Aburi, the regional structure would have survived beyond the military rule.
So far you have not been able to tackle this Argument. Instead you are arguing that the military would never have handed over to civilian, even when they eventually did.

To return to regionalism, the civilians needed the regions intact. Oba Akenzua and co sat down and helped the military denature the regional structure because they were obsessed with caging the Igbo.
By creating the 12 dysfunctional states, Oba Akenzua and Gowon and all those involved destroyed any chance of return to regionalism post military rule.
They killed regionalism.

theTranslator:

It seems you don't know what "powers" mean

Ghana practiced Regionalism and still practices it today. Do you know why? Because just like Ironsi, the military leaders of Ghana never abolished the regions and started creating states, like Gowon did

Did Ironsi take away some powers from the Regions? Of course he did, it is military rule, it was bound to happen.

Did Ironsi destroy Regionalism? He did not because had Gowon left the 4 Regions of the time with their resource control and the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence, like Ironsi left it, we would still be practising Regionalism like Ghana

Once Gowon embarked on state creation, Regionalism was dead