Consider...
At some point after the Beginning, God and Jesus made the very first Angels in Heaven (for Angels were created before man).
And like all beings God and Jesus ever made - Angelic or human - They gave the Angels free will and the ability to communicate.
And because the first Angels could communicate, if one wanted to tell God and Jesus something, he had, by the free will given to him, a choice.
He could choose to tell God and Jesus the Truth about something, or he could choose tell Them a lie.

And that was the very beginning of God's Law.
For wherever there is a moral choice combined with free will, there is God's Law, discerning between what is good versus evil, right versus wrong, and righteous versus unrighteous.
If we speak and do according to God's Standard of Righteousness, we follow the Law.
If we do not, then we break the Law.

Thus, God's Law existed practically since the dawn of time, as soon as God and Jesus made the first Angel.
In fact, God's Law is omnipresent, existing everywhere, in Heaven and throughout the universe, including Earth.
In fact God's Law is an integral PART of existence, wherever any free-will beings exist and can make moral choices.

One cannot escape God's Law any more than they can escape their own free will.
No, we cannot escape God's Law.
We can only keep it or break It.
And when we break It, we sin.

The rebellious of course hate the words "Commandment" and "Law".
And the rebellious do everything imaginable, including inventing deceitful doctrines, to avoid anything to do with those words.
But there is nothing to hate.
For it is founded on Love by God for His beings.
God's Law is there because God Loves His beings and wants them to be protected by right-living.
Those who embrace God's Law know this.
Those who reject God's Law live a lie, pretending there is no such thing.

Is there free will ? Yes.
Are there moral choices to be made ? Yes.
To deny either of those is a lie.

People can choose whatever they want to believe, either from God or men.
But if we refuse the simplest of Truths, what more will be given to us ?

As it's been established that obeying God's law brings about the best life, the question remains"why do we beings with Free Will still disobey God's law?"

Lessonteacher:
As it's been established that obeying God's law brings about the best life, the question remains"why do we beings with Free Will still disobey God's law?"

Because many do not believe God and Jesus.
When Jesus told the adultress, "Go and sin no more", was He was instructing her to do something impossible ?
No.
God and Jesus don't give the impossible, but make it possible for those who Love Them.

Lessonteacher:
As it's been established that obeying God's law brings about the best life, the question remains"why do we beings with Free Will still disobey God's law?"

Because, they are the sons of the very first disobedient, Satan.

So like father, like son- The Law of "After its own kind!"

awitness41:
Consider...
At some point after the Beginning, God and Jesus made the very first Angel in Heaven (for Angels were created before man).
And like all beings God and Jesus ever made - Angelic or human - They gave that very first Angel free will and the ability to communicate.
And because the first Angel could communicate, if he wanted to tell God and Jesus something, he had, by the free will given to him, a choice.
He could choose to tell God and Jesus the Truth about something, or he could choose tell Them a lie.

And that was the very beginning of God's Law.
For wherever there is a moral choice combined with free will, there is God's Law, discerning between what is good versus evil, right versus wrong, and righteous versus unrighteous.
If we speak and do according to God's Standard of Righteousness, we follow the Law.
If we do not, then we break the Law.

Thus, God's Law existed practically since the dawn of time, as soon as God and Jesus made the first Angel.
In fact, God's Law is omnipresent, existing everywhere, in Heaven and throughout the universe, including Earth.
In fact God's Law is an integral PART of existence, wherever any free-will beings exist and can make moral choices.

One cannot escape God's Law any more than they can escape their own free will.
No, we cannot escape God's Law.
We can only keep it or break It.
And when we break It, we sin.

The rebellious of course hate the words "Commandment" and "Law".
And the rebellious do everything imaginable, including inventing deceitful doctrines, to avoid anything to do with those words.
But there is nothing to hate.
For it is founded on Love by God for His beings.
God's Law is there because God Loves His beings and wants them to be protected by right-living.
Those who embrace God's Law know this.
Those who reject God's Law live a lie, pretending there is no such thing.

Is there free will ? Yes.
Are there moral choices to be made ? Yes.
To deny either of those is a lie.

People can choose whatever they want to believe, either from God or men.
But if we refuse the simplest of Truths, what more will be given to us ?

In the beginning was The Law
And The Law was with God
And The Law was God.

awitness41:
Consider...
At some point after the Beginning, God and Jesus made the very first Angel in Heaven (for Angels were created before man).
And like all beings God and Jesus ever made - Angelic or human - They gave that very first Angel free will and the ability to communicate.
And because the first Angel could communicate, if he wanted to tell God and Jesus something, he had, by the free will given to him, a choice.
He could choose to tell God and Jesus the Truth about something, or he could choose tell Them a lie.

I think you are and have gone too far out of Jurisdiction.

I believe it wise and safe to confine yourself to matters of your own world of which God has given you information on.

The matter of the heavenly bodies and Angels are Truly unknown to you, so it would be best not to raise much comments about these matters.

awitness41:

And that was the very beginning of God's Law.
For wherever there is a moral choice combined with free will, there is God's Law, discerning between what is good versus evil, right versus wrong, and righteous versus unrighteous.
If we speak and do according to God's Standard of Righteousness, we follow the Law.
If we do not, then we break the Law.

The highlighted: man already had "freewill" because God had Law'd it that man should be made "After their image and likeness".

Thus, since they had "freewill", we inherited it from them even before we could discern good and evil which entered later because of disobedience.

Dtruthspeaker:


Because, they are the sons of the very first disobedient, Satan.

So like father, like son- The Law of "After its own kind!"

so what you are actually saying is that it wasn't clear if obeying God's law brought the best life, before the Satan became Satan, to deceive human first parents?

Dtruthspeaker:


In the beginning was The Law
And The Law was with God
And The Law was God.

My Bible (NKJV) says this, and so does yours (KJV):
John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It does not use the word "Law".

Jesus Christ is NOT the Law.
There is not one Verse in Scripture to even imply that Christ IS the Law.
Jesus Christ is the Word, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, true, but is NOT the Law itself.
Jesus Christ kept the Law, and and teaches us all to do the same (as He also told the rich young ruler).
But Jesus is NOT the Law HImself.

Dtruthspeaker:

I think you are and have gone too far out of Jurisdiction.

I believe it wise and safe to confine yourself to matters of your own world of which God has given you information on.

The matter of the heavenly bodies and Angels are Truly unknown to you, so it would be best not to raise much comments about these matters.

There is no "jurisdiction" for reading and knowing what the Bible says, my friend.
If the Bible tells us what happened in Heaven prior to man, we are allowed to know it.

I said nothing untrue, for the Bible indeed provides Verses to show:
-- God and Jesus were in the beginning.
-- Angels were created before man.
-- Angels were given free will and the ability to communicate.

The rest is obvious to anyone: a free-will being having a moral choice about anything - like telling someone a lie or telling them the Truth - can choose to keep God's Law or not. In other words, to do right or wrong according to God's Standard of Righteousness.

Many people, including myself, could provide you the Bible Verses which prove the above "--" statements..
But I'll leave that to you, my friend, to help you to seek the Truth.
Please let us know what you find out.

awitness41:


My Bible (NKJV) says this, and so does yours (KJV):
John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It does not use the word "Law".

Jesus Christ is NOT the Law.
There is not one Verse in Scripture to even imply that Christ IS the Law.

Jesus Christ is the Word, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, true, but is NOT the Law itself.
Jesus Christ kept the Law, and and teaches us all to do the same (as He also told the rich young ruler).
But Jesus is NOT the Law HImself.

Thank God you have Admitted John 1:1

Take a Look at the Beginning, Genesis 1, Did Anyone 'SAY" Anything there?

Yes, GOD "SPOKE" AND WORDS CAME OUT "Let there be Light;"

Is that Word "let there be light", not A Commandments?

Aren't Commandments, Laws?

awitness41:


There is no "jurisdiction" for reading and knowing what the Bible says, my friend.
If the Bible tells us what happened in Heaven prior to man, we are allowed to know it.

I said nothing untrue, for the Bible indeed provides Verses to show:
-- God and Jesus were in the beginning.
-- Angels were created before man.
-- Angels were given free will and the ability to communicate.

The rest is obvious to anyone: a free-will being having a moral choice about anything - like telling someone a lie or telling them the Truth - can choose to keep God's Law or not. In other words, to do right or wrong according to God's Standard of Righteousness.

Many people, including myself, could provide you the Bible Verses which prove the above "--" statements..
But I'll leave that to you, my friend, to help you to seek the Truth.
Please let us know what you find out.

Why are you attacking me, have I a quarrel with you?

All I have counseled is for you to stay out of commenting about the Angels because they are higher and greater than you but if you think you are within Lawfull ambits, no wahala then, it is nothing to quarrel about.

Lessonteacher:
so what you are actually saying is that it wasn't clear if obeying God's law brought the best life, before the Satan, became Satan, to deceive human first parents?

I answered the question you expressly asked which is "... the question remains"why do we beings with Free Will still disobey God's law?".

And the above was not there.

Dtruthspeaker:


Why are you attacking me, have I a quarrel with you?

All I have counseled is for you to stay out of commenting about the Angels because they are higher and greater than you but if you think you are within Lawfull ambits, no wahala then, it is nothing to quarrel about.

Please be assured that I did not attack you, my friend (not from my perspective at least).
I simply spoke the Truth... if the Bible tells us something about Angels, we are allowed to know it, and even talk about it.
In fact, God and Jesus are much higher than Angels, and yet all of us here know things about Them from the BIble, and we talk about it.

None of us should be fearful of talking about Angels, because the Bible gives us a lot of information about these awesome beings.
We shouldn't speak about them disrespectfully, of course, not the good ones anyway.
As for the bad ones (Satan and his), we still shouldn't speak about them disrespectfully, but we can know the Truth that Satan is a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the Truth, because he is a liar and the father of it; and that Satan and his will end up in Hell Fire, etc.

On another note, I wasn't going to help you find the Verses that support the points made, though.
And that's because I trusted you, DT, to be able to do that yourself, because I believe you to be interested in the Truth.
Just like you did the other day when I asked you to find the exact Bible definition of the word "sin" (and you said correctly, 1 John 3:4).
But even so... I probably shouldn't have put in the very last line, about letting us know what you found out.
The Bible shouldn't be homework assigned by someone else, it should be a simple Joy.
Forgive me for that one, DT.

And by the way, whether you realize it or not, you also gave me a homework assignment.
I'm not Nigerian, and so I didn't know what "wahala" meant... so I had to go look it up !

Lessonteacher:
As it's been established that obeying God's law brings about the best life, the question remains"why do we beings with Free Will still disobey God's law?"

I liked awitness41 first or starting original post and also this question here. We disobey God's law from acting out our nature

awitness41:
Because many do not believe God and Jesus.
When Jesus told the adultress, "Go and sin no more", was He was instructing her to do something impossible ?
No.
God and Jesus don't give the impossible, but make it possible for those who Love Them.

James 2:19
'You believe that God is one; you do well [to believe that].
The demons also believe [that], and shudder and bristle [in awe-filled terror—they have seen His wrath]!'

Demons i.e. evil angels, evil celestial beings believe God and Jesus yet they sin

Dtruthspeaker:
Because, they are the sons of the very first disobedient, Satan.

So like father, like son- The Law of "After its own kind!"

I liked this apt response too

Dtruthspeaker:
In the beginning was The Law
And The Law was with God
And The Law was God.

awitness41:
My Bible (NKJV) says this, and so does yours (KJV):
John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It does not use the word "Law".

Jesus Christ is NOT the Law.
There is not one Verse in Scripture to even imply that Christ IS the Law.
Jesus Christ is the Word, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, true, but is NOT the Law itself.
Jesus Christ kept the Law, and and teaches us all to do the same (as He also told the rich young ruler).
But Jesus is NOT the Law HImself.

I liked this post because aside from being factual and truthful, it was because Dtruthspeaker tried arguing with me earlier too that the Law was God (i.e. saying that God is The Law of Nature)

Dtruthspeaker:
[s]I think you are and have gone too far out of Jurisdiction.

I believe it wise and safe to confine yourself to matters of your own world of which God has given you information on.

The matter of the heavenly bodies and Angels are Truly unknown to you, so it would be best not to raise much comments about these matters.

The highlighted: man already had "freewill" because God had Law'd it that man should be made "After their image and likeness".

Thus, since they had "freewill", we inherited it from them even before we could discern good and evil which entered later because of disobedience.[/s]

What a load of codswallop

awitness41:
There is no "jurisdiction" for reading and knowing what the Bible says, my friend.
If the Bible tells us what happened in Heaven prior to man, we are allowed to know it.

I said nothing untrue, for the Bible indeed provides Verses to show:
-- God and Jesus were in the beginning.
-- Angels were created before man.
-- Angels were given free will and the ability to communicate.

The rest is obvious to anyone: a free-will being having a moral choice about anything - like telling someone a lie or telling them the Truth - can choose to keep God's Law or not. In other words, to do right or wrong according to God's Standard of Righteousness.

Many people, including myself, could provide you the Bible Verses which prove the above "--" statements..
But I'll leave that to you, my friend, to help you to seek the Truth.
Please let us know what you find out.

1 Corinthians 6:3
'Do you not know that we [believers] will judge angels?
How much more then [as to] matters of this life?'

Another post I liked

Dtruthspeaker:
Why are you attacking me, have I a quarrel with you?

All I have counseled is for you to stay out of commenting about the Angels because they are higher and greater than you but if you think you are within Lawfull ambits, no wahala then, it is nothing to quarrel about.

awitness41:
Please be assured that I did not attack you, my friend (not from my perspective at least).
I simply spoke the Truth... if the Bible tells us something about Angels, we are allowed to know it, and even talk about it.
In fact, God and Jesus are much higher than Angels, and yet all of us here know things about Them from the BIble, and we talk about it.

None of us should be fearful of talking about Angels, because the Bible gives us a lot of information about these awesome beings.
We shouldn't speak about them disrespectfully, of course, not the good ones anyway.
As for the bad ones (Satan and his), we still shouldn't speak about them disrespectfully, but we can know the Truth that Satan is a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the Truth, because he is a liar and the father of it; and that Satan and his will end up in Hell Fire, etc.

On another note, I wasn't going to help you find the Verses that support the points made, though.
And that's because I trusted you, DT, to be able to do that yourself, because I believe you to be interested in the Truth.
Just like you did the other day when I asked you to find the exact Bible definition of the word "sin" (and you said correctly, 1 John 3:4).
But even so... I probably shouldn't have put in the very last line, about letting us know what you found out.
The Bible shouldn't be homework assigned by someone else, it should be a simple Joy.
Forgive me for that one, DT.

And by the way, whether you realize it or not, you also gave me a homework assignment.
I'm not Nigerian, and so I didn't know what "wahala" meant... so I had to go look it up !

He sees anyone putting down a straight stick alongside a crooked stick seen on the ground as someone maliciously attacking him

'No wahala' is a colloquial phrase that loosely means 'no worries' Wahala really colloquially speaking means trouble

BassReeves:
What a load of codswallop

1 Corinthians 6:3
'Do you not know that we [believers] will judge angels?
How much more then [as to] matters of this life?'

Another post I liked

'No wahala' is a colloquial phrase that loosely means 'no worries' Wahala really colloquially speaking means trouble

Thanks, BassReeves, for supporting this post.
Yes you are right - even devils and demons (Satan's angels) believe and know that God and Jesus exist, but of course, they do not believe what God and Jesus say.
The devil even knows Scripture, but of course, only to misuse it and deceive people, like he tried to do with Jesus. (What was Satan thinking?!)
Thanks again, BassReeves.
And thanks also for your definition of "wahala" (I also had to look up "codswallop", which I've never heard where I live!).

awitness41:
Yes you are right - even devils and demons (Satan's angels) believe and know that God and Jesus exist, but of course, they do not believe what God and Jesus say.

Please be specific and share exactly that God and Jesus say that devils aka demons (i.e. Satan's angels) dont believe

awitness41:
The devil even knows Scripture, but of course, only to misuse it and deceive people, like he tried to do with Jesus. (What was Satan thinking?!)

To know, isnt the same as understanding.
Some many things, the devil knows, but doesn't understand. If the devil understood that orchestrating the shenanigan death of Jesus Christ would bring salvation to all, the evil would have made everything possible that Jesus Christ is not put to dearth and so does not die

awitness41:
Thanks again, BassReeves.
And thanks also for your definition of "wahala" (I also had to look up "codswallop", which I've never heard where I live!).

All in a day's work

awitness41:
Yes you are right - even devils and demons (Satan's angels) believe and know that God and Jesus exist, but of course, they do not believe what God and Jesus say.

BassReeves:
Please be specific and share exactly that God and Jesus say that devils aka demons (i.e. Satan's angels) dont believe

All I was saying before is that the devil and demons know exactly who God and Jesus are (the Only King of the Universe and His Son).
But they do not believe the things that God or Jesus say, or else they would not end up in Hell Fire.
But I said it like I did originally because of the Verse you quoted before that from James 2:19.

For example, the verse you put above from James 2:19, here from the (NKJV):
"You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"
When I read that, I think this: We know there is one God, and that's good. But even the demons know the same - and tremble !

But the word "believe" regarding Scripture, I typically think of in this way:
Knowing and believing are two different things.
There is no Faith in only knowing, for even the devil knows.
The Faith is in the doing.
If we know what to do, but don't act on it, we have no Faith.
Likewise, "to believe" means "to have Faith".
Therefore, If we know what to do, but don't act on it, we do not really believe.
Thus "believing" without doing isn't really believing, because only our actions prove what we truly believe.

When Jesus talked to certain unbelievers at that time about "believing", He said these things:
John 5:38 (NKJV): "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe."
John 6:29 (NKJV): "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
And to Nicodemus, He also spoke this from John 3:15-16 (NKJV):
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

As you know also, BR, many false Christians have an empty idea that just "believing in Jesus" is going to get them Saved.
They do not understand that to "believe in Him" means doing what Jesus teaches.
And they avoid understanding because most do not want to DO what Jesus teaches.
So they grasp at the wind and hope to be Saved anyway.

But anyway, that is how I typically use the word believe, because it differentiates the meaning from merely knowing.

BassReeves:
To know, isnt the same as understanding.
Some many things, the devil knows, but doesn't understand. If the devil understood that orchestrating the shenanigan death of Jesus Christ would bring salvation to all, the evil would have made everything possible that Jesus Christ is not put to dearth and so does not die

That's true, and a great point.
The devil was so intent on destroying Jesus that he did not even see God's and Jesus' Love for all of us.
The devil was so blinded by hate that God and Jesus outsmarted him... by Love !
(And of course, who is smarter than either one of Them, or Loves more than either one of Them ?)
Thank you God and Jesus !