airmark:


What's Ibi? Type Ibime in full so you can get your reply.

donstan18:
Selective stupiid truth!

You jubilated over Mount’s COVID news.

Cheered racists up for abusing Rashford with the excuse of his performance.

Supported Sterling being tagged a monkey because you feel he isn’t giving top class performance.

People like you can go as far as setting poison for your family members if they ever show their likeness for British players.

I wonder how you’ll feel if people start wishing South Africans to carry out their xenophobic attacks on you because of how useless you’ve been to their society.

When we see neutral football fans, we recognize them. When we see ediots, we don’t fail to call them out.

as usual you don't understand what we are talking about

You suddenly think this is about my hate for British

Some are saying that i'm in support of racism


How can I hate and support racism at the same time?

If you are offending both sides on any subject, you are saying the truth

Emmynator:
Chelsea player expected goal and assist vs actual goal and assist (premier league only)
Timo Werner:
xG:13.43, xA: 6.67 ---- 6G 8 A

Tammy Abraham
xG: 6.19, xA: 0.72 ---- 6G 1A

Olivier Giroud
xG: 5.07, xA:1.18 ---- 4G 0A

Christian Pulisic
xG: 6.78 xA: 2.78 ---- 4G 2A

Hakim Ziyech
xG: 1.99, xA: 4.48 ---- 2G 3A

Callum Hudson-Odoi
xG: 1.37, xA: 3.10 ---- 2G 3A

Mason Mount
xG: 6.88, xA: 9.85, ---- 6G 5A

Kai Havertz
xG: 6.35, xA: 1.55 ---- 4G 3A

source: understat.com

What do you think of xG and xA as a metric of measuring player performance?

it's actually good

It makes certain things more realistic, like hi Werner only missed 7 expected goals and in full view didn't cost much points. How Some of those goals would have been created by Mount who had an extra 5 expected assists

raumdeuter:

The question I want to ask, Is it possible to criticise someone of a different race even in vile language and not be racist?

The attacks on Sterling, Rashford and Saka have been specifically about their race, explicitly calling them monkey, nigger, coon etc.
That's racist.

The attacks on Morata, Beckham, Werner etc have been in reference to things they did (in Werner's case things he did not do) on the pitch. The attacks have not been in reference to the colour of their skin which has NOTHING to do with football.

Whilst there's no justification whatsoever for sending death threats to a footballer, there is a distinction between attacking an individual for his actions, and attacking an individual(and by extension his entire race) for the colour of the skin he was born with.

raumdeuter:
While I don't agree with everything Harvetz10 posted up there especially on Sterling. Sterling in particular has been one of England best players in the past 2yrs so his criticism is not performance based. Also calling people monkey is foolish from the fans

I wanted to post something similar yesterday. I remember when Ulli Hoeness criticized Ozil as lazy and most concluded that he was racist and islamophobic recently Ulli has been attacking Kroos a white German with similar lines he used for Ozil. And he hasn't been called racist or any phobia because Kroos is white like him



The question I want to ask, Is it possible to criticise someone of a different race even in vile language and not be racist?

Sport fans are generally silly and emotional. Many athletes have faced this from people of their race. Escobar was killed by his own countrymen for scoring an own goal, In Nigeria Sani Kaita even Ighalo were insulted and called ugly names for fumbling at the world cup, Werner Harvetz and Jorginho have been targeted by fans on this thread

Beckham had to hire bodyguards after getting a red card in France98, Same thing Ronaldo faced after getting Rooney redcarded in 2006

During the Euros Moratas family and children were insulted and threatened with death for missing a penalty so much that Morata had to write about it.

One of the reasons I don't begrudge athletes who demand for top money cos a mistake at work can lead to your death or your family getting injured

There's no sport where their athlete get criticized but there's criticism and there's also criticism... I've seen matches where utd lost and rashford even performed more than their other key players but he keeps being repeatedly singled out for insults cuz of his skin..the cases of ozil and morata still exist but they are isolated cases compared to majority of insult aimed at black people...just look at the case of balotelli, even when he performed for Italy was still being insulted...lastly, I don't want to reply that clown but imagine stanning a player like havertz who flopped for Chelsea but complaining that rashford who scored 21 goals for utd was using the colour of his skin to avoid criticism...just imagine if havertz was black and he dropped some of those performances for Chelsea last season..

CAPdan21:

There's no sport where their athlete get criticized but there's criticism and there's also criticism... I've seen matches where utd lost and rashford even performed more than their other key players but he keeps being repeatedly singled out for insults cuz of his skin..the cases of ozil and morata still exist but they are isolated cases compared to majority of insult aimed at black people...just look at the case of balotelli, even when he performed for Italy was still being insulted...lastly, I don't want to reply that clown but imagine stanning a player like havertz who flopped for Chelsea but complaining that rashford who scored 21 goals for utd was using the colour of his skin to avoid criticism...just imagine if havertz was black and he dropped some of those performances for Chelsea last season..

when was the last time united had a black star footballer?

Strange after googling, why na Rashford dem dey insult pass, wetin him do them. Was Nani affected like this?

CAPdan21:

There's no sport where their athlete get criticized but there's criticism and there's also criticism... I've seen matches where utd lost and rashford even performed more than their other key players but he keeps being repeatedly singled out for insults cuz of his skin..the cases of ozil and morata still exist but they are isolated cases compared to majority of insult aimed at black people...just look at the case of balotelli, even when he performed for Italy was still being insulted...lastly, I don't want to reply that clown but imagine stanning a player like havertz who flopped for Chelsea but complaining that rashford who scored 21 goals for utd was using the colour of his skin to avoid criticism...just imagine if havertz was black and he dropped some of those performances for Chelsea last season..

So funny, Havertz fan dragging Rashford.

Ment.

Rashford last season gave 35+ G/A for his club despite injuries.

Fraudvertz gave 18 G/A for Chelsea, this is a player that was signed 75m+.

But according to our resident Cotonou truth sayer, Rashford isn’t giving his best and should be called monkey and chimpanzee, while Fraudvertz should be hyped as a talented player.

One day, some kind rubbish go load for this thread.

Just checked, Sterling gave ManCity 26 G/A despite being dropped for some games.

He made Euro TOTT, but he should be called a monkey and racially abused, while a sluggish flop like Fraudvertz should be hyped.

Impressive!!

swiz123:


His Versatility was evident in Tottenham's league position... Something they grew unfamiliar with before the tout came with his mediocre kponkpon football....

He played DM in this tournament and should compete with his fellow DMs if he is to make the cut. He was underservedly shipped to CM because he lost to a serial winner, Jorginho; robbing Varrati off his glory in the process..... Where is the fairness in that.

Well, for Erickson's sake, I'd accept this.

Kane's quality is also evident in Tottenham's league position, lmao.

donstan18:
Rashford last season gave 35+ G/A for his club despite injuries.

Fraudvertz gave 18 G/A for Chelsea, this is a player that was signed 75m+.

But according to our resident Cotonou truth sayer, Rashford isn’t giving his best and should be called monkey and chimpanzee, while Fraudvertz should be hyped as a talented player.

One day, some kind rubbish go load for this thread.

flop, average, monkey, idoit, Penaldo are all words

People will only pick what works to attack you with, nobody will call dangote poor cause he wouldn't be offended but they can call him aboki or government pet


If Rashford was white and he didn't perform they will find a word for him, it's because he is black and they know that racist words gets to him, obama has been called many racist names, go and see how he handled it, crying and playing racist card is for the weak, rashford is only using it to hide the reasons behind the attacks


All i'm saying is if people decided to use racist slurs to attack you because you aren't performing, you can either step up and shut them up Or you go to social media to rally blacks to fight against people that are only coming after you because you didn't perform


Rashford only gets attacked when he underperforms, happened after the europa league final and after the penalty shoot out


Havertz won a fuckin champions league, was one of the stand out players in that final, what did Rashford win for his club, did he stand out at the final? Una sabi talk nonsense, I wouldn't explain why havertz season was like that again

Evra played for united, Ferdinand played for united, is Rashford the first black player playing for united or England?

nihilistjnr:


The attacks on Sterling, Rashford and Saka have been specifically about their race, explicitly calling them monkey, nigger, coon etc.
That's racist.

The attacks on Morata, Beckham, Werner etc have been in reference to things they did (in Werner's case things he did not do) on the pitch. The attacks have not been in reference to the colour of their skin which has NOTHING to do with football.

Whilst there's no justification whatsoever for sending death threats to a footballer, there is a distinction between attacking an individual for his actions, and attacking an individual(and by extension his entire race) for the colour of the skin he was born with.

If you recall our conversation about Ozil and Ulli 3yrs ago, Ulli didn't use any slur yet he was tagged racist for criticizing Ozil. The same Ulli is using the same words to hit Kroos now..

Moratas wife was called a bitchh online (not like she can change being born female) and even when his family come to stadium wearing his jersey. They were posting that they hope his children has dog cancer

There are always references to your culture from online retards when it's time to insult, there is always a slur that fits

Some people need to be banned from using the internet...One foolish sadistic bastard is using this space to promote hate and dangerous agendas...donno why people reply him sef, someone that's just looking for attention.. I've known people like this, once u ignore them they'll crawl back to the hole they came out from

BlueAngel444:
it is Ibime you want to answer, he should tell us how Hojberger who played 1400+ more minutes than Jorginho, cost Tottenham more points. Still posts miserable numbers compared to Jorginho.

Firstly he is expected to have just 2 assists but so how he has 4, meaning those assists na hit and hope. I recall over the top passes from Jorginho that Werner, Abraham and the like missed.

How can someone play 2700 passes but only 67 into the box, yet it is Jorginho that passes sideways and backwards yet eye test talk say na lie, stat talk say na lie. Abeg which match abi cable or table Ibime dey watch

Into the box passes for DM player, hmm, agenda must agend.

I’m beginning to feel uncomfortable with this Halland transfer talks, e don too long.

I can’t remember any player performing very well after transfer hypes.

CAPdan21:

There's no sport where their athlete get criticized but there's criticism and there's also criticism... I've seen matches where utd lost and rashford even performed more than their other key players but he keeps being repeatedly singled out for insults cuz of his skin..the cases of ozil and morata still exist but they are isolated cases compared to majority of insult aimed at black people...just look at the case of balotelli, even when he performed for Italy was still being insulted...lastly, I don't want to reply that clown but imagine stanning a player like havertz who flopped for Chelsea but complaining that rashford who scored 21 goals for utd was using the colour of his skin to avoid criticism...just imagine if havertz was black and he dropped some of those performances for Chelsea last season..

What is the difference between criticism and criticism?
Escobar was actually shot dead, others have been threatened with death too. Or what could be worse than someone threatening to rape 3yr old daughter.

A young German girl was shown on the screen crying and Wembley cheered. Some online people called her a bitchh in reference to the gender she was born with
Some of the choice words she got were "Cry you little Nazi”, “German slag”, “Stupid bitch” for daring to cry after her country lost a match (What could she have done about being born German or her Great grandfather living during the time of Nazis, or being born female)



Sani Kaita gt a red card in 2010 And from fellow Nigerians, abokiis on the street who dont even watch football were getting insults. Not like Kaita can do anything about being born a Northerner

raumdeuter:


If you recall our conversation about Ozil and Ulli 3yrs ago, Ulli didn't use any slur yet he was tagged racist for criticizing Ozil. The same Ulli is using the same words to hit Kroos now..

Moratas wife was called a bitchh online (not like she can change being born female) and even when his family come to stadium wearing his jersey. They were posting that they hope his children has dog cancer

There are always references to your culture from online retards when it's time to insult, there is always a slur that fits

Hoeness was not 'tagged' racist. It's like you've forgotten what happened. Ozil took a picture with Turkish president and was roundly attacked for it in Germany. He retired for what he perceived to be racist treatment following his photo,and the Uli Hoeness came out to say Ozil was 'hiding behind the erdogan photo' to cover the fact that he was 'sheet'...

Please dont weaken the conversation by drawing non-existent comparisons to Kroos criticism. Did Hoeness reference anything else outside football when he discussed Kroos?

nihilistjnr:


Hoeness was not 'tagged' racist. It's like you've forgotten what happened. Ozil took a picture with Turkish president and was roundly attacked for it in Germany. He retired for what he perceived to be racist treatment following his photo,and the Uli Hoeness came out to say Ozil was 'hiding behind the erdogan photo' to cover the fact that he was 'sheet'...

Please dont weaken the conversation by drawing non-existent comparisons to Kroos criticism. Did Hoeness reference anything else outside football when he discussed Kroos?

Hoeness mainly attacked Ozils football and he said clearly he has been a weak link for long and Bayern even targets him whenever they play Arsenal

Quoted by German newspaper Bild, Hoeness said: “I’m glad this nightmare is over. He has been playing crap for years.
“The last tackle he won was before the 2014 World Cup – and now he is hiding himself and his poor performances behind this photo.”

That was when Ozil claimed his exclusion was because of picture and racism. Ulli told him its not about a photo its about football. Ulli there kept it about football just like he did with Kroos

Chelsea get match today

Saturday

nihilistjnr:


Hoeness was not 'tagged' racist. It's like you've forgotten what happened. Ozil took a picture with Turkish president and was roundly attacked for it in Germany. He retired for what he perceived to be racist treatment following his photo,and the Uli Hoeness came out to say Ozil was 'hiding behind the erdogan photo' to cover the fact that he was 'sheet'...

Please dont weaken the conversation by drawing non-existent comparisons to Kroos criticism. Did Hoeness reference anything else outside football when he discussed Kroos?

I'm really trying to see what raumdeuter is trying to point out and relate it to what was being applied to Rashford, Saka and other black players; it doesn't just make sense.

When I read what the resident lunatic on your thread posted, I just got reminded how literally stupid humans can be.

raumdeuter:


Hoeness mainly attacked Ozils football and he said clearly he has been a weak link for long and Bayern even targets him whenever they play Arsenal



That was when Ozil claimed his exclusion was because of picture and racism. Ulli told him its not about a photo its about football. Ulli there kept it about football just like he did with Kroos

I can see you're prepared to make excuses for your Legend, but not on my watch.

This is the timeline

1. Ozil took a picture with Erdogan, the president of the country of his ancestors

2. The German FA came out to say the following immediately

The DFB of course respects the special situation for our players with migrant backgrounds, but football and the DFB stands for values that Mr. Erdogan does not sufficiently respect.

"Therefore, it is not a good thing that our internationals have let themselves be misused for his election campaign stunt . It certainly hasn't helped the DFB's integration efforts.

3. The head of the German FA at the time Reinhard Grindel said this about Ozil:

Many fans were disappointed because they had questions for [Mesut] and expected an answer

4. Gundogan was booed during matches

While Özil is injured, Gündogan is booed in Leverkusen. The whistles of Germany's own fans followed Gündogan's every touch of the ball in Austria six days ago too, creating a tough situation for the player and a nightmare for the coach, who applauded Gündogan and provided his player with unwavering support.

5. Oliver Bierhoff who was on the German coaching team at the time said Ozil should have been dropped from the team for not explaining why he took a picture with the Turkish President

Özil never offered an explanation, and was even allowed to skip the otherwise compulsory media day at the pre-World Cup training camp in Austria. In the Welt interview, Bierhoff said that as a result, he and his staff should have seriously considered leaving him out of the final squad for Russia.

6. An official member of the German Supporters club writes an open letter to the German FA saying:

It would have been your duty To hit the table here and say: "Performance or not, something like that is definitely not possible!" With all the multicultural diversity and no-racism fuss. A German national player cannot stand behind a Turkish president (and certainly not behind the current one!) - then he should play for Turkey.

This action has weighed down like a shadow over the team since the pictures appeared until today and was certainly also decisive for Mesut Özil's subterranean performance in the two games where he was used. And I am sure that this topic will not be over after the World Cup either. At the next home game he will have to endure a loud whistling concert - and I am telling you here: absolutely rightly.

7. So of course Ozil quit the team, saying:

“In the eyes of Grindel and his supporters, I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose,”

Recall that the statement from the German FA literally described him as coming from an Immigrant Background.


So all this one you're saying that it's about football is complete wass. The guy went through a lot and quit because of how he was treated. Uli Hoeness in his dismissal of everything that happened to Ozil is very suggestive of racist or discriminatory thinking. Someone was condemned by the National Team Coach, the German FA, the German FA president, the supporters club, German fans, German Media etc, and then Uli Hoeness had the gall to say he was 'hiding' behind the the photo when the man quit.

Egbon stop it abeg.

nihilistjnr:


I can see you're prepared to make excuses for your Legend, but not on my watch.

This is the timeline

1. Ozil took a picture with Erdogan, the president of the country of his ancestors

2. The German FA came out to say the following immediately


3. The head of the German FA at the time Reinhard Grindel said this about Ozil:


4. Gundogan was booed during matches


5. Oliver Bierhoff who was on the German coaching team at the time said Ozil should have been dropped from the team for not explaining why he took a picture with the Turkish President


6. An official member of the German Supporters club writes an open letter to the German FA saying:


7. So of course Ozil quit the team, saying:

Recall that the statement from the German FA literally described him as coming from an Immigrant Background.


So all this one you're saying that it's about football is complete wass. The guy went through a lot and quit because of how he was treated. Uli Hoeness in his dismissal of everything that happened to Ozil is very suggestive of racist or discriminatory thinking. Someone was condemned by the National Team Coach, the German FA, the German FA president, the supporters club, German fans, German Media etc, and then Uli Hoeness had the gall to say he was 'hiding' behind the the photo when the man quit.

Egbon stop it abeg.

Ulli specifically mentioned Ozils football in his criticism and Ozil alleging racism and "hiding behind a photo" is to deflect from his horrible football. Its not unusual of how many football analyst and followers have described Ozils football. I am sure there have been many refernce to Ozil as being lazy. WHich is what Ulli said too

Below is Ullis criticism of Kroos which is errily similar to what he said of Ozil 3 yrs ago

"I like Kroos a lot, he put in some world class performances and was great at Bayern, but his style of play is outdated," Hoeness said.

"It should be said that Kroos doesn't fit in in the modern game with his horizontal passes.

"The game is now played vertically. Players take the ball and carry it forward with speed.

"And then there's that awful football against England. We were down 1-0 in the last quarter of an hour and Kroos stopped going past the hallway line.

"His way of playing is completely finished. He played sideways, played sideways again, and then the opponent's defence were able to get organised."

Hoeness believes Kroos shouldn't have been in the side at Euro 2020.

"The first two games were pretty decent with the four behind. Then in the third game we started unnecessarily with three. Why? Low wanted to include Kroos. Toni Kroos has no place in today's football," he added

elrony:


I'm really trying to see what ramdeuter is trying to point out and relate it to what was being applied to Rashford, Saka and other black players; it doesn't just make sense.

When I read what the resident lunatic on your thread posted, I just got reminded how literally stupid humans can be.

The point is fans are generally stupidd and many things and actions have been taken against players some players have been killed, some have been attacked, some families have been attacked, footballers daughters and wifes have been threatened with violence and harm
In the same tournament, a young girl crying after a loss was called names like Nazi and bitchh.

Online anonymity gives a platform for the basest instinct to come out, even for things you have no direct link to or have no controls over(your race, your sex, your body shape, your ancestors, your weight, the food you eat, your anatomy)

My question was simple. Is it possible to insult and attack someone of a different race without being racist? Like Ulli did to Ozil and was tagged racist but he did the same to Kroos

raumdeuter:


Ulli specifically mentioned Ozils football in his criticism and Ozil alleging racism and "hiding behind a photo" is to deflect from his horrible football. Its not unusual of how many football analyst and followers have described Ozils football. I am sure there have been many refernce to Ozil as being lazy. WHich is what Ulli said too

Below is Ullis criticism of Kroos which is errily similar to what he said of Ozil 3 yrs ago

This is pure crap


Ozil had quit the national team and said he did so because of the way he was treated.

Uli Hoeness said he was glad Ozil was gone because he was hiding behind a photo

Why did Hoeness feel the need to minimise the trials that Ozil was going through at the time? And how is that even different to the nonsense Jude was saying earlier?

Mind you Hoeness himself is on record saying

I wanted to make a point of diverting the conversation back towards sport. I wanted to divert it away from racism and integration.

Why was it so important to divert the conversation away from racism and integration, at the time when Ozil was saying he was sick of being labelled an immigrant by the German FA, being booed by German Fans, bring hounded by German media, and even being attacked by German politicians?

Why is it at that very particular time that Hoeness felt that Ozil was hiding behind all of that? Could Hoeness not have called Ozil crap without accusing Ozil of 'hiding' behind racist abuse? What does one have to do with the other in terms of criticism?

Egbon stop it abeg

Emmynator:


Kane's quality is also evident in Tottenham's league position, lmao.

Kane has the most goals and most assist in the just concluded EPL. What else do you want him to do? Turn to keeper?

raumdeuter:


The point is fans are generally stupidd and many things and actions have been taken against players some players have been killed, some have been attacked, some families have been attacked, footballers daughters and wifes have been threatened with violence and harm
In the same tournament, a young girl crying after a loss was called names like Nazi and bitchh.

Online anonymity gives a platform for the basest instinct to come out, even for things you have no direct link to or have no controls over(your race, your sex, your body shape, your ancestors, your weight, the food you eat, your anatomy)

My question was simple. Is it possible to insult and attack someone of a different race without being racist? Like Ulli did to Ozil and was tagged racist but he did the same to Kroos

Yes it is possible. But how is this relevant to the current situation in which explicitly racist terms were used in attacking Rashford, Sancho, and Saka?

afrodoc2:


Yes it is possible. But how is this relevant to the current situation in which explicitly racist terms were used in attacking Rashford, Sancho, and Saka?

Mine was specific about the Ulli vs Ozil vs Kroos issue since the Kroos criticism currently which happened 2-3days ago was very similar to what was used for Ozil 3yrs ago

nihilistjnr:


This is pure crap


Ozil had quit the national team and said he did so because of the way he was treated.

Uli Hoeness said he was glad Ozil was gone because he was hiding behind a photo

Ulli said he was glad Ozil was gone because of his horrible football. To Ulli, Ozil whether he took the picture or not should not be part of the team anymore because of his play

raumdeuter:


Ulli said he was glad Ozil was gone because of his horrible football. To Ulli, Ozil whether he took the picture or not should not be part of the team anymore because of his play

Uli was fully aware that Ozil was complaining about his perceived racist treatment and said

I wanted to make a point of diverting the conversation back towards sport. I wanted to divert it away from racism and integration.

Can you explain why Uli needed to divert the conversation away from Racism? Why is someone complaining about Racism a subject that needs to be diverted away?

How is that different to this?

Havertz10:

Rashford doesn't want any criticism cause he can't perform enough to shut it up, players like that aren't good enough, if you were performing no one will remember your skin color, even pundits are scared, they can't complain about his performances because anybody that doesn't appreciate flat head rashford is racist

nihilistjnr:


Uli was fully aware that Ozil was complaining about his perceived racist treatment and said


Can you explain why Uli needed to divert the conversation away from Racism? Why is someone complaining about Racism a subject that needs to be diverted away?

How is that different to this?

Ulli wants to talk about Ozils football not about taking pictures with Erdogan. Making the talking point about his photo is distracting from the main point which is the quality of football.

Werner is shitt at scoring, but he wants to talk about how the coach does not like him as a reason for getting dropped, You are getting dropped because you cannot score and not about how the coach doesnt like you

Its different because players like Saka and Sterling(who has been Englands best player) are getting attacked sometimes without provocation. Sterling can as much as kiss his daughter or post a picture in a restaurant while on vacation Saka stepped up where other senior players chickened out and someone will call him monkey

I don't know if black people are getting worked up by the racism those three boys received but from my Watsapp messages I believe so.

My take is there will always be a minority of racists in any country at any time, whether that's 1% or 3% or 5%. That's why we have minority far-right groups like BNP, National Front, English Defence League and so on. As long as they stay minority, it is never a problem as they don't affect the policies of the societies we live in.

Given that these people are there, they are bound to show up on Social media. Have we counted how many racist messages were received by Rashford and co? Is it material enough for black people in the UK to make it a central theme of discuss over the last week, or is it in line with a minority population which we know exist and can never be eradicated completely. The issue for me from a statistical point of view is in some of the Watsapp videos I've seen labelling Britain a racist society because a minute number of people decided to abuse Rashford and co. Why don't we just put this down to Social Media giving everyone a voice, including the 1% of Nazis we already know exist among us?