I read this quote totally out of context

samuk:

3. Any of the five Oba of Benin going to Ife for visit after coronation. The Benin/Ife relationship trumpeters told us that it's customary for every Oba of Benin to visit Ife after coronation.

The context is below and very well defined:

samuk:
How could Ajayi Crowder have lived through the reigns of five obas of Benin and not have witnessed or heard about the followings:

1. The bodies of Obas of Benin who joined their ancestors taken to Ife for burial in the fabricated Oro Oba Ado burial site as the proponents of Benin/Ife relationship claimed.

2. Obas of Benin going to Ife for their beaded crowns or Ife sending Obas of Benin their beaded crowns as the defenders of the fallacious Benin/Ife relationship claimed.

3. Any of the five Oba of Benin going to Ife for visit after coronation. The Benin/Ife relationship trumpeters told us that it's customary for every Oba of Benin to visit Ife after coronation.

Why didn't Ajayi Crowder witness any of these and record them for posterity?

These are events that happen in the last 81 years before the fall of Benin in 1897. Ife is not even mentioned in Benin history in the last 81 years before the fall of Benin, yet someone is sounding like a broken record trying to say otherwise.

The British themselves did accept, infact it's widely accepted by the British that what their agents stating from Button wrote about Benin in nearly 40 years to the fall of Benin were grossly exaggerated, racially motivated and deliberately anti Benin because the Oba of Benin was see as a stumbling block to British interests in the territory controlled by the Oba of Benin. British agents in then Niger area portray Benin in negative lights to get the British government to remove the Oba they considered as their stumbling block. On the the other hand, the Alaafin literally fell on his knees to worship the British the first time he saw the white man in 1824.

1824 was the first time the Alaafin saw the white man and was willing to do anything for their comfort, unlike the Oba of Benin who the British saw as uncompromising.

This is the reason that the writings of the British about Benin starting from the 1860s is at great variance to early Europeans who were mostly in Africa for trade. The British didn't only came for trade but to colonised and those that they saw as stumbling blocks were given bad press and bad publicity while those they saw as good boys were elevated above others.

Sorry my brother, I misred you, I just walked a 30 km walk and I was tired,

I misread my brother Samuk and I apologize. You guys did well, don't absorb the lies coming from the usual suspects.

samuk:
[s]How could Ajayi Crowder have lived through the reigns of five obas of Benin and not have witnessed or heard about the followings:

1. The bodies of Obas of Benin who joined their ancestors taken to Ife for burial in the fabricated Oro Oba Ado burial site as the proponents of Benin/Ife relationship claimed.

2. Obas of Benin going to Ife for their beaded crowns or Ife sending Obas of Benin their beaded crowns as the defenders of the fallacious Benin/Ife relationship claimed.

3. Any of the five Oba of Benin going to Ife for visit after coronation. The Benin/Ife relationship trumpeters told us that it's customary for every Oba of Benin to visit Ife after coronation.

Why didn't Ajayi Crowder witness any of these and record them for posterity?

These are events that happen in the last 81 years before the fall of Benin in 1897. Ife is not even mentioned in Benin history in the last 81 years before the fall of Benin, yet someone is sounding like a broken record trying to say otherwise.

The British themselves did accept, infact it's widely accepted by the British that what their agents stating from Button wrote about Benin in nearly 40 years to the fall of Benin were grossly exaggerated, racially motivated and deliberately anti Benin because the Oba of Benin was see as a stumbling block to British interests in the territory controlled by the Oba of Benin. British agents in then Niger area portray Benin in negative lights to get the British government to remove the Oba they considered as their stumbling block. On the the other hand, the Alaafin literally fell on his knees to worship the British the first time he saw the white man in 1824.

1824 was the first time the Alaafin saw the white man and was willing to do anything for their comfort, unlike the Oba of Benin who the British saw as uncompromising.

This is the reason that the writings of the British about Benin starting from the 1860s is at great variance to early Europeans who were mostly in Africa for trade. The British didn't only came for trade but to colonised and those that they saw as stumbling blocks were given bad press and bad publicity while those they saw as good boys were elevated above others.[/s]

Benins are actually too foolish to ignore. Ignoring you Binis means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. Jokers.

Crowther is not a historian, he is a linguist. He didn’t write a Yoruba history book. His books are generally grammar books, dicyionary, etc. being a linguist.

Although he sometimes set aside introductory notes to Yoruba creation stories as well as Oyo kingship (being from Ossogun), and this introductory notes usually takes roughly 3% of the pages of the actual work on language.

A sane mind wonders then how the next thing on his mind to write about (in a books of language) would be Ife-Benin connection. You’re hoplessly delusional.

Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

There were no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in the eyewitness documented Benin history between 1400s to 1800s.

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that
from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 89., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.
The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

Uneducated propagandists are just a waste of space. People who keep writing trash while believing they are doing something meaningful.


Whereas still no answer for these serious and legitimate questions::

Truthvalue:
Let me remind everybody a few facts: Benin city was burnt to the ground by the british, ife was not. Yet, the british had to build ife around 1912. So this brings the following questions:
1)what did ife look like before being built by the british
2) why build something which was not destroyed.
3) the current palace of the oni of ifa was built in the 1930's, yet the former was never destroyed by the british, so why build a new palace, was there any one prior to the one built in the 1930's or was it just a shrine ?

Stoplying:
Now, you see that ceremonial uniform of the Oba of Benin comes from his ancestors, the British took looted it from oba Ovonramwen alongside the famous Benin bronzes, they gave it back to Oba Eweka or Oba Akenzua, I can't remember exactly.

Now just for the purpose of history, can someone show me a picture of the oni of ifa in the period of Oba Ovonramwen and his traditional attire, thank you.

Truthvalue:
Weird how Benin doesn't need to claim ife in order to show Benin's greatness, but it seems ife needs to claim Benin in order to claim greatness, this fact in it's self shows which is really great among the two.

Look the yoruba people over here, quit claiming us Edo, our culture and our monarchie. Show your greatness without mentioning our name. It is that simple.

You need to stop obsessing about us.

I guess Benin is just too sweet, these guys can't cure themselves from their obsession about us. Each time the yoruba are asked about how great the yoruba were, they mention our name, our Edo art, our Edo monarchy. Pitiful. Self-esteem much. This is why one must face the yoruba with their true history as seen in those two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llporKrPsbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

Your kings (prior to the 1970s into the 1800s and all the way into the ancient past) have all maintained that their father & overlord is the Ooni of Ife.

Your kings made this confession. The Yorubas confirm it. We stated it on Nairaland. We simply stated history.

If reading this history sound to you like claiming you, then make sure to work on self.

You may be suffering from chronic-low self esteem problems.

Debunked once, debunked forever. You and your fake videos have been debunked. I know it hurts, but it is what it is.

Truthvalue:
[s]The true history of the yoruba:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIporKrPsbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hU-ibkPfg

[/s]

I have debunked this false video many, many times. See one of my comments below:

(1) Regarding your bitter lies about the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the following piece-by-piece devastating refutation:

(A) Contrary to your ignorance, captives weren’t taken from “all across Africa” as you imagined.

Rather, captives were taken from Central Africa and West Africa — including people from Benin kingdom whom the Nupe, the Ibadan, Ogedengbe, etc. raided.

(B) Contrary to your ignorance, the Yoruba people have long been known by the name Yoruba (and they’ve been living in their present homeland) for centuries prior to the period when ex-captives began to be returned to Africa.

We know this because the process of returning ex-captives back ‘home’ to West Africa didn’t begin until circa the late-1700s.

Whereas, there are manuscripts written in the early-1600s which list Yorubas (by their name Yoruba) among some of the ethnic groups of our region of West Africa.

This manuscript which was written by Ahmed Baba in 1615 is attached below.

The name Yoruba is shown in red highlight (among the other ethnic groups) as can be seen in the original manuscript as well as in the translation embedded below respectively:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934148_5117c6d550154217817d7c66b5fa0fe6_jpeg_jpeg2a73d5172c14cf7a7da91ff200688e3e

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934147_3336ed29985b499e82c4e140b455b9fa_jpeg_jpeg62ecafabb59c692d4ba471597fdf16bb

This translation was prepared by John Hunwick and Fatima Harrak for The Institute of African Studies Rabat, Morocco

Oh, I should add that we know that this manuscript was written by Ahmad Baba in the year 1615 because he himself penned his date as highlighted (in the attached verso) below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13082305_6e49d8d129844a578af9272699e1586a_jpeg_jpeg2d5891d724a6428e2c0f4e6898bd60cc

The highlight here literally shows the wording “(the year) one thousand and twenty four (of the Hijrah)”.

When converted from this Hijri “AH” calendar into our Gregorian “AD” calendar; the year 1024 AH falls into the year 1615 AD

The formula “D = 0.9692*H + 622” proves practically useful for this conversion.

In sum, your falsehood that returned-slaves (from all across Africa) are what became known as Yorubas is nothing but a but-hurt lie from a depressed bald-head.


(C) These ex-captives who were of West-African origin and Central African origin were repatriated directly to Sierra-Leone and Liberia.

Some began a new life there, while some decided to go back to their homeland from which they were taken ab-initio.

Nobody was repatriated to south-West Nigeria, bald-head.

A number of Yorubas among the returnees chose to return back to Yorubaland — just as many others who returned to their respective original homeland.

(2) The only ethnic-group whom I know of who couldn’t fight their way to freedom and be returned back to Africa are ……. [take a guess].


They couldn’t think of returning until about 400 years later when some of their descendants decided to tap into the science of Genetics as a guide to finding their way back home. ~ See video. below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDve0rwQbM

The two attachments below also shows some earlier corroborative confessions made available to Dr. R. E. Bradbury by these people themselves.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12996709_af6378be36104010b036a2f7ab4096cd_jpeg_jpeg07ca8a3f5b191f4126cdcd6bf2f7faf7

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12996710_b28de88ee10a4b7a83b95532f6609396_jpeg_jpegaca1a6203806c9d893c79b42b9a6c76e

Peace!

It is good to dream, I sometimes dream that I am the king of the world. But I wake up.

Weirdly enough, the yoruba dreams are all centered around Benin and Benin monarchy and they never seem to wake up. This collective hallucination of theirs is worrisome. Also I believe the midwest was created in the 1960's under the direction of Oba Akenzua in order to get out of the yoruba dominated western region.

A moment when the then crown prince of Benin went to visit a kingdom outside Benin in which his ancestor was buried: notice he films the occasion and also states clearly why he came to visit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhQSRmvOm3E

Gregyboy, I have got the book in which an eyewitness clearly states that the deceased Oba of Benin was buried in his palace.

I wait for your reply, I will have to research the page again.

The only artworks from black Africa which are able to take a a proud competitive stand beside the best ever produced by some of the finest civilizations in the world — The IFE Artworks. Some professional comments.

(1) “How, in a comparatively obscure corner of this vast and backward continent, could an art and a technique have flowered that take their stand beside the best ever evolved by the elaborate civilizations of Europe and Asia?"

~ W.R. Bascom, “The Illustrated London News,” (8 April 1939), p. 592.


(2) “[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer".

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

(3) "These meagre relics were eloquent of a symmetry, a vitality, a delicacy of form directly reminiscent of ancient Greece and a proof that, once upon a time, a race, far superior in strain to the negro, had been settled here. Here was an indication of something unquestionably exotic and the existence of an extremely ancient civilization.."

~ L. Frobenius, “The Voice of Africa,” 1913, pp.88-89.

Truthvalue:
[s]Gregyboy, I have got the book in which an eyewitness clearly states that the deceased Oba of Benin was buried in his palace.

I wait for your reply, I will have to research the page again.[/s]

Olodo!

Everyone knows their whole bodies are not buried in Ife even in the classical times — i.e. even prior to 1897.

In the pre-1897 Benin, the corpse is buried, but its head is later exhumed and ready to be transported to Ife. This is done for every third-reign Benin king.

~ Says Benin sources.

“The head of the royal corpse was subsequently exhumed and taken to the royal ancestral grave at Ile-Ife; but this was done in every third reign.”

~ J. U. Egharevba, “Benin Law and Custom,” CMS Niger Press, Port Harcourt, 1946, p.72.

Cheers!

Ignoring this transgender troll which is obsessed with Benin and with me seems to be the right idea. I just read a sentence of the he/she's writeup and ofcourse the sentence was a very obvious lie.

That is the thing with this lunatic, it is always the most ignorant and stupid lies that the transgender keeps writing, the transgender only tries to drown you by wasting your time because you will have a non ending list of It's lies to correct.

Truthvalue:
It is good to dream, I sometimes dream that I am the king of the world. But I wake up.

Weirdly enough, the yoruba dreams are all centered around Benin and Benin monarchy and they never seem to wake up. This collective hallucination of theirs is worrisome. Also I believe the midwest was created in the 1960's under the direction of Oba Akenzua in order to get out of the yoruba dominated western region.

A moment when the then crown prince of Benin went to visit a kingdom outside Benin empire in which his ancestor was buried: notice he films the occasion and also states clearly why he came to visit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhQSRmvOm3E

1960<1970

Truthvalue:
[s]Ignoring this transgender troll which is obsessed with Benin and with me seems to be the right idea. Just read a sentence the the he/she's writeup and ofcourse it was a very obvious lie[/s].

What you want: To be given a pass to go wild/crazy on Nairaland with your enormous LIES.

What I want: To trash every single lie that you write.

Who is glad?: Me.

Who is sad?: You.

For any serious yoruba whom is interested in history, my questions still stands:
https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/15#104583677

If no answer is given, then I will know why.

Tao is clearly mentally ill, I will continue ignoring the transgender.

There is a limit to retardedness beyond which the only explanation is mental illness, that combined with the stalking by the transgender and the obsessions of the transgender. This person needs psychiatric assistance.

Truthvalue:
[s]For any serious yoruba whom is interested in history, my questions still stands:
https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/15#104583677
If no answer is given, then I will know why.
Tao is clearly mentally ill, I will continue ignoring the transgender.
There is a limit to retardedness beyond which the only explanation is mental illness, that combined with the stalking by the transgender and the obsessions of the transgender. This person needs psychiatric assistance.[/s]

You really itch to mention me, but you’re dead-scared of the consequences. You have to make up your mind.

So going forward, IF you must mention me then do it correctly as TAO11 not as TAO.

Having said that, the extremely ret@rded question you asked must have appeared as a Nobel winning question to you. LMAO!

Actually, your question is retarded — and it exposes you to be dumber than you actually appear. See why below:

Truthvalue:
[s]Let me remind everybody a few facts: Benin city was burnt to the ground by the british, ife was not. Yet, the british had to build ife around 1912. So this brings the following questions:
1)what did ife look like before being built by the british
2) why build something which was not destroyed.
3) the current palace of the oni of ifa was built in the 1930's, yet the former was never destroyed by the british, so why build a new palace, was there any one prior to the one built in the 1930's or was it just a shrine ?[/s]

First of all, Benin City wasn’t burnt to the ground during the punishment. The palace & some buildings were burnt — not the whole place.

Moving on from that, you disgraced yourself again as always when you thought Ife wasn’t destroyed.

Even the most retarded and autistic of my Edo slaves know that Ife and some Yoruba cities were literally in ruins by the end of the 1800s — courtesy of the civil wars of the Yorubas.

As ravaged as it is, the ruins of the palace (long after the civil war) was described (by a German ethnologist who visited the site in the early 1900s) in glorious and illustrious terms. See some examples below:

(1) “A minute or two after twelve midday the monumental ruins of the Ooni’s “palace” met our gaze. We stood before the portal of the castle in the middle of an enormous square. I sent Bida in to announce us, waited for some time, made my horse climb the high flight of steps and rode through the delicately-carved door of the entrance, across the courtyard and through the dilapidated colonnades with my companions. It was like an enchanted castle. It was so large and noble in design, so superbly pure despite its broken lines, its mouldering to decay and the sordid exterior it now presents. We did not meet a single soul. At last we came to where there were some people, and there, clad in a gorgeous robe of bright green silk, a magnificent tiara on his brow, and shaded by a huge silken canopy, the Oni, the head of the Holy City of Ife’s hierarchy, advanced to meet us with a great crowd.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.77.


(2) “The Palace of the Oni, whose massive walls meet the eye from whatever quarter one approaches it, is that which most impress everyone who visits the Ilifé of to-day. Its front, especially, with the fine open square on which it stands, makes an imposing effect in spite of all its ruin. The masonry of the façade is still in fair condition, although it is denuded and devoid of interest. The walls are more mighty, over a yard broad at the base and some eighteen feet high.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.276.

(3) “Poor Oni! Poor Palace! How are the mighty fallen! Once a glorious edifice here reared itself aloft, built of bricks well burnt, brilliant with colored tiles and sundry other ornament! Here on this very spot, the horses stamped their hoofs; here the breath of life exhaled from many a human victim offered up, while this strange country’s high priests chanted prayers.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.277.

You are a disgrace only to yourself, your family & your friends.

Peace!

Cc: r4bbit

TAO11:
Olodo!

Everyone knows they’re whole bodies are not buried in Ife even in the classical times — i.e. even prior to 1897.

In the pre-1897 Benin, the corpse is buried, but its head is later exhumed and ready to be transported to Ife. This is done for every third-reign Benin king.

~ Says Benin sources.

“The head of the royal corpse was subsequently exhumed and taken to the royal ancestral grave at Ile-Ife; but this was done in every third reign.”

~ J. U. Egharevba, “Benin Law and Custom,” CMS Niger Press, Port Harcourt, 1946, p.72.

Cheers!

I have i not warned you to stop bringing materials beyond 1897 to support your claims,

. If i decided to quote egharevba in my favour against Yorubas the lamentations will never end.... And i will start hearing edoblogs, and all form of bias,
But desperate as you are you went ahead to still quote him...

Any refrence beyond 1897 is invalid


Now i know in 1894 Oduduwa was a female God Samuel johson was the one who made him man on earth and a king prior to ajayi crowther Oduduwa never existed because it was not yet invented by the imagination of yoruba people


Samuel johson is still the modern father of the lie

Stoplying:
@macof, sorry I don't read the comments of your troll infant.

1) If you knew anything about history then you would know that what matters for the study of history is not "history books" but historical documents. I know your education didn't go far enough to understand this concept.
"History" books about african history are often done by unprofessional bigots (or under their influences) and are filled with lies and fairytales and all sorts of fiction. That is why studying African history as an educated adult requires doing the work of a historian: seeking historical documents and going through them.

2) I am not interested in "anti-yoruba", I only seek to make hearing and seeing the truth an option to readers on nairaland. It is not my fault that yoruba tend to hate hearing the truth about themselves.

3) I couldn't even care less about yoruba except for the fact yoruba keep claiming my people and my heritage. So I shed a light on the history of Benin empire and put a nail kn the coffin of the fairytales of oduduwa and ogiso and oranmiyan.

4) Not contempt with my telling the truth about the history of my people which was documented by eyewitnesses, you and your yoruba followers including your transgender troll attacked me and harassed me and kept coming with more lies.

5) That is why I had to also study yoruba true history and expose it right here.

If genuinely, your asertion above remains anything to go by, then the documented of Portuguese account during the era of oba Ozolua encounter with Joan Afonso D'aveira between 1885-1506 proofs the fact that Ohen Okun,the emissary of Oba Ozolua to Portugal met King of Portugal who was installed in 1881.

Ohen Okun came back to Ughottan and also met king Ozolua in which he gave his journey's account to portugal. These meetings are well recorded in European acount, which Bini kingdom via the Oba Ozolua recognised Ooni as his father whose kingdom own its allegience to Ileife. This is a fact that's well documented, even among Edo scholars' account. ........

In 2015, an Edo scholar did field research on this account at Ughottan and he wrote about it in a journal. So, Edo people need not be ashamed because a Yoruba prince of Ileife is made Oba via his ancestor's personality known as Odede Oranmiyan.

Truthvalue:
Gregyboy, I have got the book in which an eyewitness clearly states that the deceased Oba of Benin was buried in his palace.

I wait for your reply, I will have to research the page again.

Am here sir the desperate lady in her quest to prove me wrong Oduduwa wasnt an invention of Samuel johson she Referenced a book of 1894 talking about Oduduwa as a female goddess

And in our debate any refrence beyond 1897 would be regarded as invalid so don't her lure you beyond those years to prove her point she. Must be nailed

Using egharevba book written after 1897 as a refrence to her point is already invalid

Am waiting for your material sir

Let me drop the 1894 screenshot of the female Oduduwa

She wanted to escape from me calling Oduduwa an invention of Samuel johson and she gave me another point to hammer on, she will surely be punished by me

When am done with her she will look for earlier material regarding Oduduwa as a man and not a female goddess

Tao11 come here

Truthvalue:
Gregyboy, I have got the book in which an eyewitness clearly states that the deceased Oba of Benin was buried in his palace.

I wait for your reply, I will have to research the page again.

...

Am here sir

Actually, your question is retarded — and it exposes you to be dumber than you actually appear. See why below:

Truthvalue:
[s]Let me remind everybody a few facts: Benin city was burnt to the ground by the british, ife was not. Yet, the british had to build ife around 1912. So this brings the following questions:
1)what did ife look like before being built by the british
2) why build something which was not destroyed.
3) the current palace of the oni of ifa was built in the 1930's, yet the former was never destroyed by the british, so why build a new palace, was there any one prior to the one built in the 1930's or was it just a shrine ?[/s]

First of all, Benin City wasn’t burnt to the ground during the punishment. The palace & some buildings were burnt — not the whole place.

Moving on from that, you disgraced yourself again as always when you thought Ife wasn’t destroyed.

Even the most retarded and autistic of my Edo slaves know that Ife and some Yoruba cities were literally in ruins by the end of the 1800s — courtesy of the civil wars of the Yorubas.

As ravaged as it is, the ruins of the palace (long after the civil war) was described (by a German ethnologist who visited the site in the early 1900s) in glorious and illustrious terms. See some examples below:

(1) “A minute or two after twelve midday the monumental ruins of the Ooni’s “palace” met our gaze. We stood before the portal of the castle in the middle of an enormous square. I sent Bida in to announce us, waited for some time, made my horse climb the high flight of steps and rode through the delicately-carved door of the entrance, across the courtyard and through the dilapidated colonnades with my companions. It was like an enchanted castle. It was so large and noble in design, so superbly pure despite its broken lines, its mouldering to decay and the sordid exterior it now presents. We did not meet a single soul. At last we came to where there were some people, and there, clad in a gorgeous robe of bright green silk, a magnificent tiara on his brow, and shaded by a huge silken canopy, the Oni, the head of the Holy City of Ife’s hierarchy, advanced to meet us with a great crowd.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.77.


(2) “The Palace of the Oni, whose massive walls meet the eye from whatever quarter one approaches it, is that which most impress everyone who visits the Ilifé of to-day. Its front, especially, with the fine open square on which it stands, makes an imposing effect in spite of all its ruin. The masonry of the façade is still in fair condition, although it is denuded and devoid of interest. The walls are more mighty, over a yard broad at the base and some eighteen feet high.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.276.

(3) “Poor Oni! Poor Palace! How are the mighty fallen! Once a glorious edifice here reared itself aloft, built of bricks well burnt, brilliant with colored tiles and sundry other ornament! Here on this very spot, the horses stamped their hoofs; here the breath of life exhaled from many a human victim offered up, while this strange country’s high priests chanted prayers.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.277.

You are a disgrace only to yourself, your family & your friends.

Peace!

Cc: r4bbit

gregyboy:
[s]I have i not warned you to stop bringing materials beyond 1897 to support your claims,
If i decided to quote egharevba in my favour against Yorubas the lamentations will never end.... And i will start hearing edoblogs, and all form of bias,
But desperate as you are you went ahead to still quote him... Any refrence beyond 1897 is invalid

Now i know in 1894 Oduduwa was a female God Samuel johson was the one who made him man on earth and a king prior to ajayi crowther Oduduwa never existed because it was not yet invented by the imagination of yoruba peopleSamuel johson is still the modern father of the lie[/s]

Is this the best face-saving lie you have to offer?

Is this how you plan to save Benin kingdom from me?

You should do better this.

Truthvalue:
Weird how Benin doesn't need to claim ife in order to show Benin's greatness, but it seems ife needs to claim Benin in order to claim greatness, this fact in it's self shows which is really great among the two.

Look the yoruba people over here, quit claiming us Edo, our culture and our monarchie. Show your greatness without mentioning our name. It is that simple.

You need to stop obsessing about us.

Benin greatness is self evident. Ife non existence greatness was created on paper. In the 1840s when Britain was already gaining strong foothold in the Niger area, they were continuously reminded that only the Oba of Benin can give legitimacy to who amongst the princes emerges as the Oba of Lagos. Benin was consistently mentioned in Lagos history because of the relationship and connection to Lagos.

Why was nothing written in this period about Benin/Ife relationship if indeed there was one.

Why would the British and Ajayi Crowder witness the reigns of five Obas of Benin and wrote nothing about their interactions with Ife if there was such interactions.

Records are there from when Benin/Ife interactions began, it was after the fall of the Benin empire. There is absolutely nothing written in Benin history to suggest Benin had any relationship with Ife prior to 1897.

I am still looking at the history books to find where Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan are mentioned with reference to Benin before 1897.

At this junction, almost all none Yorubas and quite a number of sincere Yoruba would have been convinced by now that there was indeed no interactions, connection and relationship between Benin and Ife until after 1897.

By the 1840s up till 1890, the Nigeria space was already fast opening up and a lot was written about the various tribes and their interactions with their neighbours. If Benin had anything to do with Ife, it would have most certainly be mentioned in these 50 years period.

In the last 50 years, thousands of words which can't be backed up with historical evidence have been written about Benin/Ife relationship compared to nothing written in the previous 400 years.

gregyboy:




Am here sir the desperate lady in her quest to prove me wrong Oduduwa wasnt an invention of Samuel johson she Referenced a book of 1894 talking about Oduduwa as a female goddess

And in our debate any refrence beyond 1897 would be regarded as invalid so don't her lure you beyond those years to prove her point she. Must be nailed

Using egharevba biok written after 1897 as a refrence to her point is already invalid

Am waiting for your material sir

Lemme drop the 1894 screenshot of the female Oduduwa

She wanted to escape from me calling Oduduwa sn invention of Samuel johson and she gave me another point to hammer on, she will surely be punished by me

When am done with her she will look for earlier material regarding Oduduwa as a man and not a female goddess

Are you for real ? The account you post is not of Ileife. Infact, there is a spot where the man identified as Oduduwa has a place where he sunk into the ground,that chain is attached.


So,not all you see on Wikipedia at times are true. Infact, this man was the pioneer with the king title ooni(owner and wealthy one) This account is also found among Ado people who unconsciously mistaken odudua as wife of obatala. This same Obatala engaged Odudua (human ones) in a battle and Obatala lost this war.

In ileife, there is a comical dramatic replica of this contest, at entrace of a new ooni that emerge from Oranmiyan quarter( Idio). This is also done in your Bini enclave,which is known as Ekiokpagh treaty

Truthvalue:
I read this quote totally out of context

The context is below and very well defined:



Sorry my brother, I misred you, I just walked a 30 km walk and I was tired,

No worries. Exercise is very good for maintaining good health, keep it up.

Olu317:


Are you for real ? The account you post is not of Ileife. Infact, there is a spot where the man identified as Oduduwa has a place where he sunk into the ground,that chain is attached.


So,not all you see on Wikipedia at times are true. Infact, this man was the pioneer with the king title ooni(owner and wealthy one) This account is also found among Ado people who unconsciously mistaken odudua as wife of obatala. This same Obatala engaged Odudua (human ones) in a battle and Obatala lost this war.

In ileife, there is a comical replica of this contest, at entrace of a new ooni that emerge from Oranmiyan quarter( Idio). This is also done in your Bini enclave,which is known as Ekiokpagh treaty

Am talking of an 1894 book you're talking of Wikipedia who does that....


Why not watch silently before you jump into the discussion

samuk:


No worries. Exercise is very good for maintaining good health, keep it up.

Thank you my brother.

gregyboy:




Am here sir the desperate lady in her quest to prove me wrong Oduduwa wasnt an invention of Samuel johson she Referenced a book of 1894 talking about Oduduwa as a female goddess

And in our debate any refrence beyond 1897 would be regarded as invalid so don't her lure you beyond those years to prove her point she. Must be nailed

Using egharevba book written after 1897 as a refrence to her point is already invalid

Am waiting for your material sir

Let me drop the 1894 screenshot of the female Oduduwa

She wanted to escape from me calling Oduduwa an invention of Samuel johson and she gave me another point to hammer on, she will surely be punished by me

When am done with her she will look for earlier material regarding Oduduwa as a man and not a female goddess

Tao11 come here

Good job gregyboy, yet another nail on their coffin of lies. Another evidence to show Oduduwa was nothing but a mythical figure in Yoruba history.

At this rate, even TAO11 will have no choice but to start believing the truth.

gregyboy:
...

Am here sir

Ok, contact me at johnsheppard515@yahoo.com

TAO11:
Is this the best face-saving lie you have to offer?

Is this how you plan to save Benin kingdom from me?

You should do better this.

....

Dont laugh your way out

On a lighter side, I am beginning to think this is no longer a fair fight.

The Yorubas are trying to defend history filled with fairytales and myths whilst the Benin are armed to the teeth with actual eyewitness historical accounts and evidences.

Lies, myths and fairytales are very difficult to defend in the face of the truth.

By insisting that only evidences that support Benin/Ife relationship prior to the fall of Benin in 1897 will be accepted, amounts to tie their both hands behind their backs in a boxing fight and even the strongest heavyweight lier will have no chance against a featherweight champion of truth.

Very soon TAO11 will be on her own and hope depression will not set in at the rate the Benin is demolishing and destroying her obsession.

Olu317:
If genuinely, your asertion above remains anything to go by, then the documented of Portuguese account during the era of oba Ozolua encounter with Joan Afonso D'aveira between 1885-1506 proofs the fact that Ohen Okun,the emissary of Oba Ozolua to Portugal met King of Portugal who was installed in 1881.

Ohen Okun came back to Ughottan and also met king Ozolua in which he gave his journey's account to portugal. These meetings are well recorded in European acount, which Bini kingdom via the Oba Ozolua recognised Ooni as his father whose kingdom own its allegience to Ileife.

Instead of saying scholar this or scholar that why didn't you dhow an eye witness account of these tales ? You claim there is z European account, yet instead if showing it, you are boring me to death by talking about scholars here and there. I have already stated this time and again, and it is written in the very comment to which you are replying: history is studied through historical documents ( := eyewitness account) not "scholar account".

In fact let me serve you back the comment to which you were replying, you need yo read it again and again until you finally understand it and stop making contradictory statements

"1) If you knew anything about history then you would know that what matters for the study of history is not "history books" but historical documents. I know your education didn't go far enough to understand this concept.
"History" books about african history are often done by unprofessional bigots (or under their influences) and are filled with lies and fairytales and all sorts of fiction. That is why studying African history as an educated adult requires doing the work of a historian: seeking historical documents and going through them.

2) I am not interested in "anti-yoruba", I only seek to make hearing and seeing the truth an option to readers on nairaland. It is not my fault that yoruba tend to hate hearing the truth about themselves.

3) I couldn't even care less about yoruba except for the fact yoruba keep claiming my people and my heritage. So I shed a light on the history of Benin empire and put a nail kn the coffin of the fairytales of oduduwa and ogiso and oranmiyan.

4) Not contempt with my telling the truth about the history of my people which was documented by eyewitnesses, you and your yoruba followers including your transgender troll attacked me and harassed me and kept coming with more lies.

5) That is why I had to also study yoruba true history and expose it right here."

Also, as I already said, oranmiyan, oduduwa and ogiso are fairytales, you in particular do not seem to be able to talk about history without talking about people who never existed and were made up. And look at the new name you guys are now giving oranmiyan. Did you decide that in your last propagandist reunion, just like when you guys were creating that scam of "yoruba" etymology here on nairaland ? So now your fictional oranmiyan had a nomenclature following european style of name: family name and personal name. Just like your fraudulent "medieval" burial site of the King of Benin which was built with modern cement technology and which is littered with british alphabet. Your frauds are always so very obvious.

gregyboy:




Am talking of an 1894 book you're talking of Wikipedia who does that....


Why not watch silently before you jump into the discussion

So, the 1894 was superior to what the Ileife account asserts ? You must be a big time clown flawful to believe this account of Samuel Ajayi Crowther,who did not do any field research work in Ileife and inform peopele wrongly aboutt the place . Are you even aware that Samuel Ajayi Crowther misinterpreted some Yoruba lexicons ? If you are interestd, in knowing more kindly go to Ileife toknow if Oduduwa was a man or woman.

Mind you,there is ample evidence that showcase that, Oba Bini was a descendant of Oranmiyan, a Yoruba man and Oken okun was a direct descendant of Ekerledan,the founder of Ughottan , who died and was buried in the same Ughottan.