Hismasterpiece:

what do you believe about them. do you believe they are actual places where people go when they die?

Kobojunkie:
1. I never said that to you or anyone else. So you are indeed lying still.

2. Your observations are not of me but borne of your bias since you chose to believe that which you want of me.

3. I am not easily decieved by people throwing random scripture at me. I actually read to comprehend everything that is said - I don't just swallow up scripture for the sake of it.

peggywebbs:
1. Yeah....seems you forget the things you say but remember others remember.

2. I don't know you and I have no reason to bear ill towards you. However, you share a lot of your opinions here and its always there for all to see

Kobojunkie:
1.

5. Jesus Christ told you that the only teaching you are to trust and obey is His teachings and His teachings alone. He declared that all other teachings that do not conform to His teachings are lies and nothing but. All throughout His time on earth, He stressed the fact that in His Kingdom all were called... the same call goes out to all and all those who answer are called Sons of God.... all of them equal and doing the same work. It is His teachings , His Word, that will judge us in the end - not the teachings of Peter, James, Paul, etc. No, we will all be judged the very words and commandments of Jesus Christ alone.
If you choose to ignore Jesus Christ so you can elevate the teachings of another over His, you are also guilty of following the doctrines and traditions of men, it is that simple.

peggywebbs:
@Kobojunkie I'll drop this here.

Kobojunkie:
1. Jesus Christ declared that His followers are never to rule over the others in any way. That He alone is

* Law
* Teacher
* Head/Master
* Leader/Authority
* Helper
* Counselor
* Shepherd/Guide

Over each one who belongs to Him . He comands that His followers submit to and obey Him and only Him - we are to live by every Word of His. Jesus also warned His followers not to occupy any such role over the others- Matthew 23 vs 7 - 10.

So when Paul supposedly states that a woman should submit to her husband, this is in violation of Jesus Christ's Law.

And when Paul supposedly states that a man is Head over a woman, this is in violation of Christ's comandment.

Kobojunkie:
You are saying that when Jesus Christ declared that your marriages are of this world and not of His Kingdom, He, Jesus Christ was wrong because you believe instead that marriage is about the Church that belongs to Jesus Christ?

I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not a follower of Paul so I ofocurse separate the Words of the one who is God over me from the opinions of men, even that of Paul. Why? Because Jesus Christ is the one and only Teacher, Master/Head, Shepherd, Leader/Authority over each ans all those who are His followers....

Kobojunkie:
Paul was not the one who should command you - he was a man just like you. Instead, Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God is the one you are called to trust in and obey.
The New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, declared that He alone is Head & Master over each person who belongs to Him. And He also condemned the serving of two masters. - Matthew 23 vs 7 - 10

Kobojunkie:
What "Church" started in the book of Acts? Jesus Christ is the one who founded His Church and continues to build it with His own hands.

In the book of Acts, we are told that the apostles whom we believe belonged to Jesus Christ's Church began in one accord because they were led by the Spirit of Truth(Jesus Christ) and of God Himself, not because men willed it so or had anything to do with it.

Paul's letters was not written of Jesus Christ's own Church. Do not mistake any gathering of beljevers/ peoples(a church) as the Church belonging to Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
The commandments that Jesus Christ gives you govern living in the Kingdom of God and not to be broadly applied to those on the world.

If Paul called himself father to another who believes in Jesus Christ, he , Paul, sinned against God in doing so.

You don't say because Jesus Christ said, do not call anyone father, that the unbelievers are wrong for using the title of anyone they chose.

You, who claim to believe in Jesus Christ, are condemned by Jesus Christ for calling another who also believes in HIM, "father". It is really very simple rule to obey but because you follow men instead, I see how it is hard for you to keep the commandment of Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
READ TO COMPREHEND FIRST!

1. Again, the Old Testament is for knowledge, the New Covenant, Jesus Christ is for you to follow/live by. If you do not understand what following or living by a Law,in this case, Jesus Christ, mean, ask. \

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ never asked His followers to obey the 10 commandments, nor the other 603 other laws that complete that set of Old. He gave to them a New Covenant complete a new set of laws to which He called them to submitting to and obeying.[hr

Kobojunkie:
[sub][/sub]1.
3. You are not called to follow in the footsteps of those you call the early Christians, not even in the words of Paul, but instead to put your trust in the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's very own Law in the Kingdom of God.

4. Paul's law against women is not in accordance with the teachings of Jesus Christ who instead declared that in His Kingdom, everyone is equal and Jesus Christ is the only Head over each one of His. - Matthew 23 vs 6 - 9

Kobojunkie:
1.
2. Jesus Christ is God's Law to you and rather than following the first Christians, you are instead expected to trust in and obey Jesus Christ. So where did Jesus Christ command you to worship Him only on Sundays?

Kobojunkie:
I
2. Jesus Christ did not teach you of "fruits of the Spirit",nor did He teach you that the fruits He spoke of where the "fruits of the Spirit" as mentioned by Paul in his letters.




Satan may disguise himself as an angel of light but one thing he will never do is good in obedience to God's commandments, as that would be in direct contradiction of his very core code. Satan can feign the "fruits of the Spirit" as taught by Paul, but he can never bow in submission to and obedience of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

4. John suggests that you try every Spirit but was John speaking of trying Spirits outside of your person or the spirits inside of you as a person?


So, it is unwise to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ .I.e. bear good fruits.

Kobojunkie:
More than 80% of the words recorded for Moses fit the pattern of "Words out of the Mouth of God". Paul on the other hand, no. Plus, There is nothing for anyone to teach after Jesus Christ. All the apostles were required to do was PREACH what had already been taught and nothing more

Kobojunkie:

Did Jesus Christ lie? That is the question I ask anyone who has a doubt about what Jesus Christ said in those verses I posted earlier.
Here is what another apostle said about the same subject

In my opinion, I think Paul wrote to present his own experience with other Christians. Rather than use his experience to compare to theirs, many have instead chosen to make a religion out of it, hence the division that is the church today, mostly built on different doctrines with every other pastor assuming themselves teachers, even when Jesus Christ warned against such.

Kobojunkie:
I won't say that because some of what I do agree with, given my own experiences. But there are so many questions. My suspicions are that his actual letters were edited. E.g 1 Corinthians 14, after the verses talking of the gifts, ending with something like, "God is not a God of confusion," there seems to be an abnormal leap to chastizing women on speaking.
And there are lots of disconnected ideas... disconnected from Jesus's teachings.... in the letters that make me wonder if his letters had been manipulated by some group who wanted to use his work to further their doctrine.

Kobojunkie:
Is Paul really responsible for the writings we attribute to his person? That is the question, I still have. So far, I don't believe any of those letters are 100% his, even though historians say only 5 letters are not.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ called Judas and we all know what Judas chose instead.

I don't judge Paul. I only hoped that so many are not blinded by his "teachings" that they choose to disregard the commandments of Jesus Christ in the name of Paul.

If you knew how many times I have posted the very words of Jesus Christ only to have someone post Paul's word as a rebuttal and how It breaks my heart that this person is blind to think that he/she can get around Jesus Christ's own Commandment, using a statement made by Paul.

Just because a person is called does not mean the person is "justified". No, it does not. That is why we ought to set our eyes on the one that matters and that is Jesus Christ.

Since many people see his letters as "Teachings" I stay clear of mentioning them so I don't fall into a doctrinal whole when trying to show what God says about any issue.

Kobojunkie:
I didn't realize that I had made that mistake. Yes, there are 13 chapters to the book of Hebrews. But like I said the sectioning of even the letters written by the apostles( inclusion of chapters and verses) happened many many centuries after the contents were written.

I am not a "Christian", and I don't subscribe to the opinions of men. I do however subscribe to and follow the Word of God, Jesus Christ, and only He. Jesus Christ never commanded any of His followers to follow after the opinions of any other man. He told His followers that He is the way, the Truth, and the Life. He instructed that God and God alone be our only Father, Master, Teacher, Helper etc. Have to yourself no other god except God Himself.

Paul was just a man... with opinions, but still a man subject to the very laws of Jesus Christ, just like you and I, and every other person who pretends to be of Jesus Christ out there. To suggest that the words of Paul are true is to suggest that Paul was Jesus Christ in some form over your soul and that is antiChrist(Since Jesus Christ commanded against such setting up of others as masters over our existence).

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid you lie when you claim there is no difference between the two. Jesus Christ is the truth of God therefore all the doctrines and rules give you by Paul that do not have correlations Truths in the teachings of Jesus Christ are lies, and this according to Jesus Christ Himself.

And there are numerous examples of them.

Kobojunkie:
Actually, the Spirit says that indeed there are discrepancies between what we have as the letters of Paul today and the very Teachings of Jesus Christ, the one who is the Truth of God.

Kobojunkie:
Oh, there are indeed many discrepancies that exist between the teachings of Jesus Christ and what is attributed to Paul in his letters.

Jesus Christ does not lie...Paul's letters on the other hand, contain teachings that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Paul never studied at the feet of Jesus Christ...He was not one of the 12 disciples .

Also, many of the teaching in pauls letters today contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ while some others are not even based on the Truth of Jesus Christ's teachings.

Kobojunkie:
Paul never studied at the feet of Jesus Christ...He was not one of the 12 disciples .

Also, many of the teaching in pauls letters today contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ while some others are not even based on the Truth of Jesus Christ's teachings.

Kobojunkie:
So where is the claim that you assert I made against Paul?

peggywebbs:
....

Kobojunkie:
READ TO COMPREHEND FIRST!

1. Again, the Old Testament is for knowledge, the New Covenant, Jesus Christ is for you to follow/live by. If you do not understand what following or living by a Law,in this case, Jesus Christ, mean, ask. \

Kobojunkie:
Again, where is the claim you said I made against Paul?

Where is this disregard for the Old testament and the teachings of the disciples if even on this very thread I have in fact discussed Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19 and writing in Paul's letter of 2 Corinthians 5 on the first page?

peggywebbs:
You still want to ignore the bolded?or are you having a comprehension issue?
Your script is clearly spelt out. You have a whole encyclopedia of your issue with Paul and every other teaching. If you want to make reference to the things you have said in the past.... I have already compiled some of them. They are a long list. So don't expect me to debate you about your doctrines.

You asked for proof of my claims and I have done that. Like I said my opinion of you is strictly from all the things you have said. I didn't lie.

peggywebbs:
@Hismasterpiece ...you see @kobojunkie only listens to Jesus Christ's teachings. He completely disregards the old testament and the teachings of the disciples. To him they corrupted the teachings of Christ especially Apostle Paul. There is really no point arguing scripture with him as he has already made up his mind.

Kobojunkie:
READ TO COMPREHEND FIRST! 1. Again, the Old Testament is for knowledge, the New Covenant, Jesus Christ is for you to follow/live by. If you do not understand what following or living by a Law,in this case, Jesus Christ, mean, ask. \

Kobojunkie:
Paul never studied at the feet of Jesus Christ...He was not one of the 12 disciples .

Also, many of the teaching in pauls letters today contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ while some others are not even based on the Truth of Jesus Christ's teachings.

peggywebbs:
@Kobojunkie since you're having a short memory fuse I'll remind of my claim.
Here is your script
b][/b]

peggywebbs:

No I'm not..its something you expressedly told me... I remember the word. You said Paul did not walk with Jesus Christ like the other disciples.

I'm only stating my observation from our previous arguements and what you say. Even with a glaring and overwhelming scripture, you still refuse to see what OP is saying. He isn't speaking from any G.O or Pastor like you always accuse other Christians, he's speaking from the bible.

So what else are you looking for?

Kobojunkie:
I don't have a short memory, I simply don't see what you claim , so I continue to ask expecting you to explain how you reached your conclusions.

So again, where is the claim you said I made against Paul?

Where is this disregard for the Old testament and the teachings of the disciples if even on this very thread I have in fact discussed Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19 and writing in Paul's letter of 2 Corinthians 5 on the first page?

peggywebbs:

You still don't get it do you? I have no intention of arguing scripture with you, none at all. I am neither telling you you're right or wrong. I only pointed out my observation about you. You said I lied and I showed you your script.

I didn't make any assumptions, I said exactly what I saw. Simple.

As to your opinions about your belief, they are simply yours. I have no intention of changing that.

I'm only telling OP not to waste time arguing scripture with you because according to you, you only listen to what Jesus Christ said... every other part of the scripture is irrelevant to you or in your words just for the knowledge of it.

Kobojunkie:
Peggywebs, you Iie when you claim that i made a claim against Paul.
You lied when you said I disregard the Old Covenant and the teachings of the disciples.

You showed me scripts that say nothing of what you claim, and I am asking you to explain to me how you reached the conclusions that you have from even those posts. And up till now you refuse to do that. I believe you and I have been here before too.

I post regularly from both the Old Testament and even the letters of the apostles. I have done that on several occasions, even right here on this particular thread. I believe I have told you or more than one occasion that if it is the case that you don't understand my logic, ask and I will explain it to you.
You don't need to descend so low as to now go about telling on me as if you are some kindergarten kid or something with an issue. If you are not clear on the meaning of what I say, ask me and I will do my best to explain my belief, which obviously you are having a problem with still.

peggywebbs:
Sure whatever makes you happy... just remember the internet doesn't forget.
I didn't say those words... they were all yours and there's still more.
I just want to sleep good night

Kobojunkie:
I know my words.. what I don't know is where your accusations come from since they do not come from anything I have actually stated on here.

If you have questions of my belief or you don't understand any of what I said, ask and I will gladly answer.

MaxInDHouse:
Just two questions will help to resolve this!

God told Adam:

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die. Genesis 2:17

Satan told Eve:

At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die". Genesis 3:4

My question:
© Is Adam dead or still alive?
© Between God and Satan, who is the LIAR?

peggywebbs:
Here comes another who picks one verse and throws the entire bible away.. Kudos

MaxInDHouse:
I only quoted the words of the person Jesus of Nazareth confirmed that he (Satan) is a LIAR in the BEGINNING {John 8:44} and it's obvious that this first LIE led to aging and death of the first human couple!
So whatever we want to discuss about DEATH in that same book (Bible) must correlate with the event that occurred IN THE BEGINNING!

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

peggywebbs:

Yeah I understand.. it's your doctrine. Everybody in the bible are liars except Jesus Christ and God or sorry in your case Jehovah.

MaxInDHouse:

My question:
© Is Adam dead or still alive?

MaxInDHouse:

© Between God and Satan, who is the LIAR?

Splinz:

Maximus, do you not know that when the scripture says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), it also made distinction between physical death and spiritual death, even though you can't see it? You may consider washing your eyes with pure water so that you can see clearly.
So therefore, there's nothing like death, it's an illusion. The deads are alive because they are spirits; immortals.

"there's nothing like death, it's an illusion. The deads are alive because they are spirits; IMMORTALS"

Op said the former. He said God lied when He said Adam will die. How can Adam die when he is a spirit; immortal?

Seems the list of nonsense I hear daily grows in leaps and bounds. Also, for the fact that people like the Op need rocket science to explain what death means, shows that there's serious problem. Sadly, this problem has rendered even the brains power useless.

MaxInDHouse:

Please i'll like to understand you better

Splinz:

Sorry you missed it. It was all sarcasm.

MaxInDHouse:
Just two questions will help to resolve this!

God told Adam:

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die. Genesis 2:17

Satan told Eve:

At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die". Genesis 3:4

My question:
© Is Adam dead or still alive?
© Between God and Satan, who is the LIAR?

Splinz:


Maximus, do you not know that when the scripture says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), it also made distinction between physical death and spiritual death, even though you can't see it? You may consider washing your eyes with pure water so that you can see clearly.

So therefore, there's nothing like death, it's an illusion. The deads are alive because they are spirits; immortals.



Op said the former. He said God lied when He said Adam will die. How can Adam die when he is a spirit; immortal?

Seems the list of nonsense I hear daily grows in leaps and bounds. Also, for the fact that people like the Op need rocket science to explain what death means, shows that there's serious problem. Sadly, this problem has rendered even the brains power useless.

Kobojunkie:
I believe what Jesus Christ said there in that passage.

Hismasterpiece:

You didn't answer my question. Do you believe in the doctrine of heaven and hell?

Kobojunkie:
You already had my response from the other thread. I believe only in the teachings of Jesus Christ regarding Heaven and Hell.. any doctrines of men(lies) regarding the subject, I reject.

Hismasterpiece:

LOL. Do you believe that when Jesus talked about heaven and hell he was talking about literal places where people go when the die?