That's not what I'm saying. I was talking to Max who says the rest of us who go to church are not Christians. According to him, only Jehovah Witnesses are the true worshippers of God.

I'm trying to let him know, that we may all have different denominations, but we are reading the same Bible and have the same faith in one God.

It doesn't matter what church we attend, we should agree as Christians. The fight that one church is better than the other, is like a house fighting against itself. P.S my origin is Anglican.

Hismasterpiece:


So you're saying Anglicans, pentecostals, baptists, etc are not true Christians?

peggywebbs:
That's not what I'm saying. I was talking to Max who says the rest of us who go to church are not Christians. According to him, only Jehovah Witnesses are the true worshippers of God.
I'm trying to let him know, that we may all have different denominations, but we are reading the same Bible and have the same faith in one God.
It doesn't matter what church we attend, we should agree as Christians. The fight that one church is better than the other, is like a house fighting against itself. P.S my origin is Anglican.

Of course all of you are worshiping the same God except JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
Our own God totally differs from yours that's why we are different from all of you!

MaxInDHouse:


Of course all of you are worshiping the same God except JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
Our own God totally differs from yours that's why we are different from all of you!

My God is Yahweh and His Son is Jesus Christ. Is it the same way for Jehovah's witnesses?

Hismasterpiece:

My God is Yahweh and His Son is Jesus Christ. Is it the same way for Jehovah's witnesses?

Not so quick Sir!
There are other facts we must consider before we can agree that we're on the same page!

Though OUR God is Jehovah (Yahweh) and His son is Jesus (Christ) but there are many other things we must consider!

MaxInDHouse:

Not so quick Sir!
There are other facts we must consider before we can agree that we're on the same page!

Though OUR God is Jehovah (Yahweh) and His son is Jesus (Christ) but there are many other things we must consider!

like what?

peggywebbs:
That's not what I'm saying. I was talking to Max who says the rest of us who go to church are not Christians. According to him, only Jehovah Witnesses are the true worshippers of God.

I'm trying to let him know, that we may all have different denominations, but we are reading the same Bible and have the same faith in one God.

It doesn't matter what church we attend, we should agree as Christians. The fight that one church is better than the other, is like a house fighting against itself. P.S my origin is Anglican.

ok

Hismasterpiece:

like what?

The will of our God!

Apostle Paul explained that during the last days there will be lots of confusion {2Timothy 3:1-4} because Satan will complicate things when he initiate numerous sects and some will even claim they're CHRISTIANS! 2Timothy 3:5

So our brothers in faith must will be fully competent and completely equipped to use the scriptures to preach and teach others about the will of our God! 2Timothy 2:15; 3:16-17

Do you know the will of our God now?

You may receive help to become one of us i'm seeing one of my brothers following this thread. If you show genuine interest in the truth my brothers will help you!

MaxInDHouse:
You may receive help to become one of us i'm seeing one of my brothers following this thread. If you show genuine interest in the truth my brothers will help you!

So you're saying Jehovah's witnesses are the only true Christians and i must join you people before i can be considered a Christian?

You will be considered a Christian throughout the world once you claim you're a Christian but before members of our own group globally you only become a Christian the day you get baptized in the presence of JWs.
By that time anywhere you get to on this planet you're welcome into the home of all JWs because you've become one of us {Mark 10:29-30} but you must live by Christian standard because if you decide to turn away from what made you our family you're no more going to be regarded as one of us! Romans 16:17

It's not so in other religions claiming Christians you can leave one for another, they all believe you're a Christian once you claim so, that's why Jesus said their own ROAD is BROAD since you're free to switch lanes but in our own NARROW PATH you must maintain one single lane! Matthew 7:13-14

May you have PEACE!

Hismasterpiece:

So you're saying Jehovah's witnesses are the only true Christians and i must join you people before i can be considered a Christian?

See the people in the pictures, they're sharing these pictures because they want members throughout the earth to know that they're now part of our global family!

MaxInDHouse:
You will be considered a Christian throughout the world once you claim you're a Christian but before members of our own group globally you only become a Christian the day you get baptized in the presence of JWs.
By that time anywhere you get to on this planet you're welcome into the home of all JWs because you've become one of us {Mark 10:29-30} but you must live by Christian standard because if you decide to turn away from what made you our family you're no more going to be regarded as one of us! Romans 16:17

It's not so in other religions claiming Christians you can leave one for another, they all believe you're a Christian once you claim so, that's why Jesus said their own ROAD is BROAD since you're free to switch lanes but in our own NARROW PATH you must maintain one single lane! Matthew 7:13-14

May you have PEACE!

What of the thief crucified alongside Jesus?

Was he a Jehovahs witness?

Are you saying because he wasn't baptized he wasn't a Christian?

But didn't Jesus say that his spirit would be in Him in Heaven that very day? Implying that he has a spirit and an eternal home after death as we all do?

Hismasterpiece:

What of the thief crucified alongside Jesus?
Was he a Jehovahs witness?
Are you saying because he wasn't baptized he wasn't a Christian?
But didn't Jesus say that his spirit would be in Him in Heaven that very day? Implying that he has a spirit and an eternal home after death as we all do?

The thief was executed for his evil deeds not for the sake of righteousness so he's not fit to be called a Christian therefore Jesus has no business with him, but he uttered a statement that shows the condition of his heart at the time he's dying:

“Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42
That's what called Jesus' attention!
Jesus is the promised Messiah, the religious leaders of the day who has been teaching the Jews stood there telling Jesus:

In the same way also, the chief priests with the scribes were mocking him among themselves, saying: “Others he saved; himself he cannot save" Mark 15:31

Now think about that!
Those who taught the Jews everything written in the scriptures (including this thief) were mocking Jesus but the thief remembered all what the Chief Priests taught him so he found out that if what all the things the religious leaders taught them are true then Jesus must be the Messiah! Remember Jesus told crowd listening to him:
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say. Matthew 23:1-3

Definitely this thief must have been in the crowd that day that's why he could faithfully begged Jesus to remember him!
Instantly Jesus realized that this thief must have put faith in those things he told the crowd that faithful day!

Of course that's what Jesus expected from all sinners 'repentance', so he approved the man for PARADISE not Heaven!

You still need to know the difference between Paradise and heaven, both are different places not the same!

MaxInDHouse:


The thief was executed for his evil deeds not for the sake of righteousness so he's not fit to be called a Christian therefore Jesus has no business with him, but he uttered a statement that shows the condition of his heart at the time he's dying:

“Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42
That's what called Jesus' attention!
Jesus is the promised Messiah, the religious leaders of the day who has been teaching the Jews stood there telling Jesus:

In the same way also, the chief priests with the scribes were mocking him among themselves, saying: “Others he saved; himself he cannot save" Mark 15:31

Now think about that!
Those who taught the Jews everything written in the scriptures (including this thief) were mocking Jesus but the thief remembered all what the Chief Priests taught him so he found out that if what all the things the religious leaders taught them are true then Jesus must be the Messiah! Remember Jesus told crowd listening to him:
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say. Matthew 23:1-3

Definitely this thief must have been in the crowd that day that's why he could faithfully begged Jesus to remember him!
Instantly Jesus realized that this thief must have put faith in those things he told the crowd that faithful day!

Of course that's what Jesus expected from all sinners 'repentance', so he approved the man for PARADISE not Heaven!

You still need to know the difference between Paradise and heaven, both are different places not the same!

what is the difference between paradise and heaven?

where is paradise and where is heaven?

Hismasterpiece:

what is the difference between paradise and heaven?
where is paradise and where is heaven?

Heaven is where God created for Spirits to live with Him {Genesis 1:1 compare to Psalms 115:16} so there's no plan for any human to go and live in heaven from the beginning, earth is the home of all fleshy creatures!

Paradise means a place where all the creatures are at peace with one another, no sickness, no aging, no death, no pain just as it was in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were to continue extending the boarders of Eden as their families are growing bigger until the whole earth becomes a PARADISE. Genesis 1:28

But after the rebellion in Eden God cursed the earth so that everything changed, that's why we're no more in control of all the animals and most of them now feed on one another even some do eat humans if allowed, and insects that were supposed to gather the dirts around us left their duty only start feeding on our blood!

The sea became troublesome and even the wind, the atmosphere, and the ground all changed and became our enemies. Genesis 3:17-19

Jesus' ultimate sacrifice is going to undo all of that so that when God's Kingdom begin to operate on this planet what God purposed in the beginning will come to be {Matthew 6:10} that is where Jesus promised that thief.

The thief in question is aware of all these things because it's written in God's word!
Psalms 37:7-11; 67:6-7; Isaiah 25:8; 33:24; 35:5-6; 65:21-25; Matthew 5:5
So he knew that Jesus was talking about the renovated earth under God's Kingdom not Heaven!

What caused the confusion is the way some translators who believe all good people are going to heaven rendered that verse.
Let's consider it from two different translations in the next post!

Considering Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. KJV

And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” NWT

If you carefully observe the two translators the punctuation mark "," is the bone of contention!

If you read the KJV, the mark makes it sound as if Jesus will be with that thief in another place that same day.
But if you read the NWT, the mark makes it sound as if Jesus is promising that their about some future occurrence that day.

So we have two translators now having contradicting opinion on what Jesus said there. But let's consider other related comments about Jesus' condition after his death that day.

According to Jesus himself where will he be for the next two days after his execution?

Well Jesus said:

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

Was Jesus conscious after his death?

Peter said:

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Act 5:30

According to God's word Jesus was dead as in UNCONSCIOUS until God raised him the third day! Ecclesiastes 12:7 compare to Luke 23:46

So Jesus couldn't have gone anywhere with the thief after their execution.
Moreover Jesus himself said that for anyone to go up to heaven such a person must be a born again Christian {John 3:5} therefore the condemned criminal never met that criteria but he's due for a resurrection because he showed faith in God's son. So Jesus will make sure that when the UNRIGHTEOUS ones are been resurrected this thief will be among them then Jesus will see to it from heaven that he is well taken care of both physically, emotionally, materially and spiritually!

MaxInDHouse:
Considering Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. KJV

And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” NWT

If you carefully observe the two translators the punctuation mark "," is the bone of contention!

If you read the KJV, the mark makes it sound as if Jesus will be with that thief in another place that same day.
But if you read the NWT, the mark makes it sound as if Jesus is promising that their about some future occurrence that day.

So we have two translators now having contradicting opinion on what Jesus said there. But let's consider other related comments about Jesus' condition after his death that day.

According to Jesus himself where will he be for the next two days after his execution?

Well Jesus said:

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

Was Jesus conscious after his death?

Peter said:

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Act 5:30

According to God's word Jesus was dead as in UNCONSCIOUS until God raised him the third day! Ecclesiastes 12:7 compare to Luke 23:46

So Jesus couldn't have gone anywhere with the thief after their execution.
Moreover Jesus himself said that for anyone to go up to heaven such a person must be a born again Christian {John 3:5} therefore the condemned criminal never met that criteria but he's due for a resurrection because he showed faith in God's son. So Jesus will make sure that when the UNRIGHTEOUS ones are been resurrected this thief will be among them then Jesus will see to it from heaven that he is well taken care of both physically, emotionally, materially and spiritually!

when you die and find yourself in heaven i am sure you will be very surprised.

Hismasterpiece:

when you die and find yourself in heaven i am sure you will be very surprised.

Just keep all the scriptures i explained to you perhaps you will later find better Interpretation.

You're not going to heaven because that's not what God told Adam. It's whether he live on earth or return to dust! Genesis 2:17; 3:17-19

May you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:


Just keep all the scriptures i explained to you perhaps you will later find better Interpretation.

You're not going to heaven because that's not what God told Adam. It's whether he live on earth or return to dust! Genesis 2:17; 3:17-19

May you have PEACE!

you Jehovah's witnesses are taught to accept every thing the watch tower society tells you as fact and are not taught to read the scriptures and understand it for yourselves.

you don't believe in heaven or hell when it is so obviously stated in the scriptures, you don't believe the Holy Spirit is a person, you don't believe in the trinity, you don't believe Jesus is God when in fact all these things are obviously stated in the scriptures.

i admonish you stop identifying with a society and start identifying with a Lord and Savior (Jesus) and you'll start to see things differently.

Stop calling yourself Jehovah's witness and start calling yourself Christian and seek to understand the Bible for yourself and dont just accept whatever the watch tower society tells you without first confirming it in the scriptures.

Grace and Peace to you

I only care because of the title of your thread:

"A False Christian Belief About The Afterlife"

Now that i've established what i beleive with scriptural backings for everything, you can continue your thread with your fellow believers in whatever you believe!

We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES the only group worshiping our own God.

May you have PEACE!

Hismasterpiece:

you Jehovah's witnesses are taught to accept every thing the watch tower society tells you as fact and are not taught to read the scriptures and understand it for yourselves.
you don't believe in heaven or hell when it is so obviously stated in the scriptures, you don't believe the Holy Spirit is a person, you don't believe in the trinity, you don't believe Jesus is God when in fact all these things are obviously stated in the scriptures. i admonish you stop identifying with a society and start identifying with a Lord and Savior (Jesus) and you'll start to see things differently. Stop calling yourself Jehovah's witness and start calling yourself Christian and seek to understand the Bible for yourself and dont just accept whatever the watch tower society tells you without first confirming it in the scriptures.

Grace and Peace to you

this belief is very common among Jehovah's witnesses.

Hismasterpiece:
this belief is very common among Jehovah's witnesses.

You are wrong!
Whatever one JW believes is the same thing all of us believe globally {John 17:22} so it's not a matter of COMMON whoever doesn't believe exactly what we believe is an interested person in our midst! 1Corinthians 14:33

Hismasterpiece:
Please avoid false teachings.

People don't cease to exist when they die. We are spirits who have souls and live in bodies. 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

When a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord in Heaven. 2 Cor 5:1, 8. Phil 1:23.

Where they get this false notion that a person ceases to exist is from Genesis 3:19 where God told Adam that he was dust and would return back to dust because he ate the fruit.

God didn't mean that he would cease to exist, he was just telling him he would die physically as a direct consequence of him dying spiritually because he ate the fruit.

And they conveniently ignore Genesis 2:7 where God breathed into man and he became a living being.

The word for BREATH in the Hebrew and Greek is the same word for SPIRIT.

So man became a living being when God put a spirit inside him.

And they also ignore the warning in Genesis 2:16-17.

God said the DAY that he ate the fruit he would Die. But when Adam ate the fruit he didn't die physically until many years later.

What does that mean? Does that mean that God lied? Of course not. The DAY that our parents ate the forbidden fruit THEY DIED. That's the real them... Their spirit.

God is the Father of spirits Heb 12:9. And Adam is called the Son of God Luke 3:38. God is a Spirit John 4:24. Therefore Adam is a Spirit who was put inside a body.

I hear Christians use the term spiritual dead or death a lot but I haven’t gotten a decent explanation yet. If someone’s spirit is dead then how is the person still alive if humans are spirits? How is a spiritually dead persons spirit moving about after physical death, isn’t the spirit dead?

LordReed:


I hear Christians use the term spiritual dead or death a lot but I haven’t gotten a decent explanation yet. If someone’s spirit is dead then how is the person still alive if humans are spirits? How is a spiritually dead persons spirit moving about after physical death, isn’t the spirit dead?

Well the word death as used in the Bible means three things, but two are only relevant to this discussion:

1. Physical death, that is, when it refers to the body. (see James 2:26)

2. Separation from God. Which is what God meant when He told Adam and Eve that they would die after eating the forbidden fruit. "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Literally dying, "thou shalt surely die." In other words, death processes will begin the day you eat of that fruit.

When the Bible talks about a person's spirit dying it doesn't mean it ceases to exist it just means that persons spirit is banished from the presence of God.

They often make mockery of God's word with their ignorance and arrogance. Instead of humbly learning from those who knows better than them they feel everyone could just pick up the book (Bible) and gain the accurate knowledge thereof.

Of course there is spiritual death but it simply means the death of a Bible trained conscience, it has nothing to do with the gibberish they're spewing.

Adam became spiritually dead even before eating the forbidden fruit because he had to kill his godly trained conscience to join Eve in doing what God commaded them not to do.
Note that the order not to eat the forbidden fruit was primarily given to Adam before he passed on the information to Eve. So for him to have agreed to eating the fruit is a sign of spiritual DEATH!

The death God actually meant at Genesis chapter 2:17 is a physical one, Adam will die the day he eat that fruit. Before then time was unspecified because they don't have to grow old or die, but from the moment they ate that fruit the countdown began nobody both Adam, Eve nor any of their descendants ever lived up to one day after they ate from that fruit! 2Peter 3:8

In the Christian congregation we often refer to someone who decided to stop living by God's standard as spiritually dead person even though he's still walking up and down but to us such a person is DEAD {Matthew 8:22} so each time anyone began taking in the accurate knowledge of God's word, dedicate his life and symbolized it by water baptism we accept such a person as living forever because even he should die his name is already written in the book of life so Jesus will surely resurrected him! John 11:25-26

But as for Adam and Eve they're dead forever!

LordReed:

I hear Christians use the term spiritual dead or death a lot but I haven’t gotten a decent explanation yet. If someone’s spirit is dead then how is the person still alive if humans are spirits? How is a spiritually dead persons spirit moving about after physical death, isn’t the spirit dead?

Hismasterpiece:

Well the word death as used in the Bible means three things, but two are only relevant to this discussion:

1. Physical death, that is, when it refers to the body. (see James 2:26)

Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
The spirit here refers to the breath of life God gave Adam in the beginning {Genesis 2:7} if God has taken it immediately as Adam ate the fruit then he couldn't live afterwards!
That's what LordReed is saying!

2. Separation from God. Which is what God meant when He told Adam and Eve that they would die after eating the forbidden fruit. "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Literally dying, "thou shalt surely die." In other words, death processes will begin the day you eat of that fruit.

They already separated themselves even before eating that fruit, remember Jesus said it's not until you commit a sin openly that you're guilty before God {Matthew 5:28} so Adam and Eve have already separated themselves from God even before eating, God only render His own judgement after they did because they can still revive each other if Adam objected to eating of it! Job 2:9-10

When the Bible talks about a person's spirit dying it doesn't mean it ceases to exist it just means that persons spirit is banished from the presence of God.

The highlighted is a LIE there is nowhere God's word talks about a person's spirit dying!

MaxInDHouse:
They often make mockery of God's word with their ignorance and arrogance. Instead of humbly learning from those who knows better than them they feel everyone could just pick up the book (Bible) and gain the accurate knowledge thereof.

Of course there is spiritual death but it simply means the death of a Bible trained conscience, it has nothing to do with the gibberish they're spewing.

Adam became spiritually dead even before eating the forbidden fruit because he had to kill his godly trained conscience to join Eve in doing what God commaded them not to do.
Note that the order not to eat the forbidden fruit was primarily given to Adam before he passed on the information to Eve. So for him to have agreed to eating the fruit is a sign of spiritual DEATH!

The death God actually meant at Genesis chapter 2:17 is a physical one, Adam will die the day he eat that fruit. Before then time was unspecified because they don't have to grow old or die, but from the moment they ate that fruit the countdown began nobody both Adam, Eve nor any of their descendants ever lived up to one day after they ate from that fruit! 2Peter 3:8

In the Christian congregation we often refer to someone who decided to stop living by God's standard as spiritually dead person even though he's still walking up and down but to us such a person is DEAD {Matthew 8:22} so each time anyone began taking in the accurate knowledge of God's word, dedicate his life and symbolized it by water baptism we accept such a person as living forever because even he should die his name is already written in the book of life so Jesus will surely resurrected him! John 11:25-26

But as for Adam and Eve they're dead forever!

LOL. You Jehovah's witnesses will not kill somebody oooo... Lol...

LordReed:

I hear Christians use the term spiritual dead or death a lot but I haven’t gotten a decent explanation yet. If someone’s spirit is dead then how is the person still alive if humans are spirits? How is a spiritually dead persons spirit moving about after physical death, isn’t the spirit dead?

According to scripture, man was created a physical being, from from clay of this earth - Genesis 2 vs 6- 7 - Man was not created a spiritual being. And God's judgement of Death against man is of the physical kind- Genesis 3 vs 19 - and so Death is defined here as a sort of reversal of the creation process where man ceases to exist, like it was before he was created.

As all men were condemned to die, this from Adam, we were , all of us, literally the walking dead.

2. Given that humans were not created spiritual beings, they can't experience spiritual death since spirits are supposedly eternal beings and in Genesis 3 vs 20 - 23 clearly explains that since man did not eat from the tree of Life, He had no eternal life of any kind.

However through Jesus Christ, man is now able to experience a birth of the Spiritual kind - John 3 vs 1 - 8 - and able to experience eternal life. Those who believe in Jesus Christ and are born again are born of spirit- the only way to enter into the Kingdom of God either through the broad gate(evil) or narrow gate(good)- Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 . And we know Spirits do not die - demons are also eternal in the New Covenant.

So the term "spiritual death" is not Biblical but born of the doctrines and traditions of men and their churches.

Hismasterpiece:


Well the word death as used in the Bible means three things, but two are only relevant to this discussion:

1. Physical death, that is, when it refers to the body. (see James 2:26)

2. Separation from God. Which is what God meant when He told Adam and Eve that they would die after eating the forbidden fruit. "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Literally dying, "thou shalt surely die." In other words, death processes will begin the day you eat of that fruit.

When the Bible talks about a person's spirit dying it doesn't mean it ceases to exist it just means that persons spirit is banished from the presence of God.

How can a person's spirit be banished from the presence of the god if the god is everywhere? Also in the story Adam and Eve can still hear and converse with the god so how were they able to do that if they were banished from the presence of god? Another story says Cain killed his brother and still had a conversation with the god, how was he able to do that if he was banished from the presence of god?

Hismasterpiece:
LOL. You Jehovah's witnesses will not kill somebody oooo... Lol...

Don't worry, i know LordReed very well he'll prove to you that you don't know what you're saying!

LordReed:


How can a person's spirit be banished from the presence of the god if the god is everywhere? Also in the story Adam and Eve can still hear and converse with the god so how were they able to do that if they were banished from the presence of god? Another story says Cain killed his brother and still had a conversation with the god, how was he able to do that if he was banished from the presence of god?

LOL.. I don't claim to have much knowledge on this subject but...

From what I know.. Adam and Eve were banished from God's manifest presence.

You see.. There are two types of God's presence that I know of.. His Manifest presence and His omnipresence.

His omnipresence means He's everywhere.. But not everywhere in the sense that He is actively involved in every event at everytime but rather nothing is hidden from His Sight and Knowledge... He witnesses everything and is aware of all that is happening. His omnipresence can't be sensed... We only believe it by faith... According to what is written...

His manifest presence is when God physically goes to a place His manifests His presence to the physical senses (smell, touch, hearing, etc).. (Like when Jesus appeared to Paul.. He didn't see Jesus but heard him)... And sometimes even to the eyes like when Jesus appeared to John in the account of the Revelation...

So to answer your question, Adam and Eve were banished from God's manifest presence.. They lost the privilege of having God walk with them in the cool of the day.. And having God bring animals to them to see what they would name them.

God's omnipresence even extends to hell. God is well aware of the punishments being metted out on sinners there... Even David wrote that if he makes his bed in hell God is there and there is nowhere he can go to evade God's Spirit.

This is the best answer I can think of with my level of understanding.

Hismasterpiece:


LOL.. I don't claim to have much knowledge on this subject but...

From what I know.. Adam and Eve were banished from God's manifest presence.

You see.. There are two types of God's presence that I know of.. His Manifest presence and His omnipresence.

His omnipresence means He's everywhere.. But not everywhere in the sense that He is actively involved in every event at everytime but rather nothing is hidden from His Sight and Knowledge... He witnesses everything and is aware of all that is happening. His omnipresence can't be sensed... We only believe it by faith... According to what is written...

His manifest presence is when God physically goes to a place His manifests His presence to the physical senses (smell, touch, hearing, etc).. (Like when Jesus appeared to Paul.. He didn't see Jesus but heard him)... And sometimes even to the eyes like when Jesus appeared to John in the account of the Revelation...

So to answer your question, Adam and Eve were banished from God's manifest presence.. They lost the privilege of having God walk with them in the cool of the day.. And having God bring animals to them to see what they would name them.

God's omnipresence even extends to hell. God is well aware of the punishments being metted out on sinners there... Even David wrote that if he makes his bed in hell God is there and there is nowhere he can go to evade God's Spirit.

This is the best answer I can think of with my level of understanding.

OLÓDO!

But when you see someone fully competent and completely equipped to answer with efficacy you can say they're wrong, shey?