tctrills:

If God can change, then is he perfect. There is no shadow of turning in him.
Moses is not wiser than God

God has feelings. He doesn't change on his principles, but changes on execution of fiery judgment when asked for mercy. It is principle to change His mind to forgive. That is the epitome of perfection.

tctrills:

I understand God permitting Moses to speak. But this was basically Mises calming an angry God down.
It was Moses being the bigger man and providing council that calmed the situation and made God change his mind.
God is always right but in this case, it was Moses that was right. And he heeded room Moses' wise words

This is just Moses saying "I understand how you feel O Lord, I know these people are idiots and they do deserve to die but you know that the whole world is watching us and they are very evil, so they would not see the justice and rightness of your action but shall speak evil of You and Your Work.

If there is another way, you can deliver justice without this evil bastards opening their mouths let's take it!"

That is what Moses what saying in giving his opinion of the problem/problems at hand.

And this is where you learn that with God your opinions are entertained.

tctrills:

Are you saying that if we do not remind him, he would break his promise?
You are confusing everything. You say he does not forget but we need to remind him. Don't you see the contradiction. And what does Solomon and first Kings 11 have to do with this?

Did you read the chapters?

Exodus 32 and 1 Kings 11?

Unlike Exodus 32, in 1 Kings 11 God remembered the promise. I'm sure if God had not mention the promise, Solomon will use that as a point for forgiveness. Please read those chapters.

You can go further to see how Abraham pleads/bergain with God in Genesis 18:16-33. This things are written for us, I didn't frame them.

Ayo081:


Did you read the chapters?

Exodus 32 and 1 Kings 11?

Unlike Exodus 32, in 1 Kings 11 God remembered the promise. I'm sure if God had not mention the promise, Solomon will use that as a point for forgiveness. Please read those chapters.

You can go further to see how Abraham pleads/bergain with God in Genesis 18:16-33. This things are written for us, I didn't frame them.

I read it, and I have no problem with it. It is totally different from what occurred in Exodus.

In Exodus, God wanted to destroy Israel but for Moses intervention.
Again I Genesis, Abraham did not make God to change his mind.
Maybe I am not getting your point.
So let me ask today, can we get God to change his mind?

Dtruthspeaker:


This is just Moses saying "I understand how you feel O Lord, I know these people are idiots and they do deserve to die but you know that the whole world is watching us and they are very evil, so they would not see the justice and rightness of your action but shall speak evil of You and Your Work.

If there is another way, you can deliver justice without this evil bastards opening their mouths let's take it!"

That is what Moses what saying in giving his opinion of the problem/problems at hand.

And this is where you learn that with God your opinions are entertained.

Exactly my point.
We see moses wise opinion got God to change his mind. Moses did not want any hasty action that would lead to people speaking evil of God.
That is what a good friend would do, he would advise you and stop you from making a bad decision.
I personally don't believe that God needs man's council in his decision making.
He sees the beginning from the end and knows what's best for us.

MightySparrow:



God has feelings. He doesn't change on his principles, but changes on execution of fiery judgment when asked for mercy. It is principle to change His mind to forgive. That is the epitome of perfection.

I agree that God has feelings. But change is actually the epitome of imperfection.
I also understand forgiveness. But note a few things here, The children of Israel did not repent. Again this was not about forgiveness. I was about Moses giving the Lord reasons why destroying Israel wasn't the best decision.
It's just like you are angry and you want to fight but your friend councils you not to and calms you down.
If you read Exodus 32 from verse 11 basically giving God reasons why he should not go ahead with his action.
My point is, he should not need Moses to remind him of his promise to Abraham

tctrills:

Exactly my point.
We see moses wise opinion got God to change his mind. Moses did not want any hasty action that would lead to people speaking evil of God.
That is what a good friend would do, he would advise you and stop you from making a bad decision.

I personally don't believe that God needs man's council in his decision making.
He sees the beginning from the end and knows what's best for us.

If only you played chess you would know that for Masters, there is nothing like a "bad decision".

Secondly we do not need to see the end to Win. Re "He sees the beginning from the end and knows what's best for us"

God does not need to look into the future to make any move.

Therefore, God was not going to make a bad decision, it was in fact a very good one. (Another set of Moves will follow
after this move but you do not know this)

He only wanted us reading it today to know that He can Listen to our intelligent opinion and that even if He works with it, We Would still be Ok.

Dtruthspeaker:


If only you played chess you would know that for Masters, there is nothing like a "bad decision".

Secondly we do not need to see the end to Win. Re "He sees the beginning from the end and knows what's best for us"

God does not need to look into the future to make any move.

Therefore, God was not going to make a bad decision, it was in fact a very good one. (Another set of Moves will follow but you do not know this)

He only wanted us reading it today to know that He can Listen to our intelligent opinion and that even if He works with it, We Would still be Ok.

Even in chess, there are bad decisions that is why people loss.

tctrills:

Even in chess, there are bad decisions that is why people loss.

Bad decisions are for novices not so for Masters.

Dtruthspeaker:


Bad decisions are for novices not so for Masters.

even masters loss

tctrills:
even masters loss

Yes they do!

To the Better Master!

tctrills:
even masters loss

And you are even forgetting here that in this event, No One was playing against Him.

So this was a time to do what He Likes. Nothing will affect Him.0

Dtruthspeaker:


Yes they do!

To the Better Master!

But I get your point.. you are saying that even if God did not heed to Moses advice whatever he did would still have worked out. I think that is a very Good point.
But clearly, he chose he best which was to heed to Moses.
Just like a boss work listen to his workers and sometimes heed to their councils.
I don't have a problem with God but with that part of the Bible.
I don't think God needs man's input in his decision making process.
Clearly Moses had a great impact on God's final decision.

tctrills:

I don't think God needs man's input in his decision making process.
Clearly Moses had a great impact on God's final decision.

I appreciate that this is your problem but what you need to see is

1) God being as A Good Oga, who listens to the opinions of His Subordinates.

2) In carrying out the ideas of His Subordinates, He shows and proves to All that the opinions of His subordinates are indeed good and great ideas to implemented by others in other situations (Precedent) and David Followed this Rule in the case where Saul fell into his hand, even twice.

3) it shows that if you come up with a Good Idea, God can implement it. And many other lessons.

Dtruthspeaker:


I appreciate that this is your problem but what you need to see is

1) God being as A Good Oga, who listens to the opinions of His Subordinates.

2) In carrying out the ideas of His Subordinates, He shows and proves to All that the opinions of His subordinates are indeed good and great ideas to implemented by others in other situations (Precedent) and David Followed this Rule in the case where Saul fell into his hand, even twice.

3) it shows that if you come up with a Good Idea, God can implement it. And many other lessons.

I love the way you see it but you are missing one key point. God is all knowing and all perfect.
If my Oga was all knowing, he wouldn't need my advice.
2. I don't understand the David/Saul analogy.
3. I have no issue with God helping us implement our good ideals but I don't see him changing his to follow ours.

tctrills:

God is all knowing and all perfect.
If my Oga was all knowing, he wouldn't need my advice.

And this is why Truth should be taught for now another wrong teaching is interfering with your thinking thereby giving you a conflicting signals.

This is the True Position. God can know All things for Like CIA Director, the files can be put on His Table. But He Does not Often Look into the Future. He does not often read those files.

He rather watches the players as a Spectator as they Play.

Which is why you see terms like "And "God Saw" Genesis 6:2/5 or in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah "I will go down now and see Genesis 18:21 which clearly shows that He was not looking before.

This is where you need to appreciate that God can See if and when He wants to, but He even gives us privacy, even though Cameras are definitely recording your activities.

tctrills:

I agree that God has feelings. But change is actually the epitome of imperfection.
I also understand forgiveness. But note a few things here, The children of Israel did not repent. Again this was not about forgiveness. I was about Moses giving the Lord reasons why destroying Israel wasn't the best decision.
It's just like you are angry and you want to fight but your friend councils you not to and calms you down.
If you read Exodus 32 from verse 11 basically giving God reasons why he should not go ahead with his action.
My point is, he should not need Moses to remind him of his promise to Abraham

The promise to Abraham goes beyond that. It became a covenant. Covenant puts a limit to one's use of power. You submit your strength for the other.


Having studied covenant for about fifteen years now, I almost conclude, why would God do that?

Later in the scriptures, God was looking for intercessors, those who would appeal to him on behalf of Israelites.


God is the only wise. Perfect in all his ways.

MightySparrow:


The promise to Abraham goes beyond that. It became a covenant. Covenant puts a limit to one's use of power. You submit your strength for the other.


Having studied covenant for about fifteen years now, I almost conclude, why would God do that?

Later in the scriptures, God was looking for intercessors, those who would appeal to him on behalf of Israelites.


God is the only wise. Perfect in all his ways.

I agree with you about Abraham hence, he did not need Moses to remind him of his covenant.

Dtruthspeaker:


And this is why Truth should be taught for now another wrong teaching is interfering with your thinking thereby giving you a conflicting signals.

This is the True Position. God can know All things for Like CIA Director, the files can be put on His Table. But He Does not Often Look into the Future. He does not often read those files.

He rather watches the players as a Spectator as they Play.

Which is why you see terms like "And "God Saw" Genesis 6:2/5 or in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah "I will go down now and see Genesis 18:21 which clearly shows that He was not looking before.

This is where you need to appreciate that God can See if and when He wants to, but He even gives us privacy, even though Cameras are definitely recording your activities.

Now you are going into speculation. Why wouldn't the CIA director not read his files. Such a director should be sacked.
You quote Genesis 18.21 and your explanation is thar God doesn't know what is happening everywhere at all times. Wow really interesting. You have simply said God isn't all knowing. You mean to say that there are things God isn't aware of at the moment?
Well if that is how you see God then I understand why you think he needs Moses to advise him.

tctrills:

I read it, and I have no problem with it. It is totally different from what occurred in Exodus.

In Exodus, God wanted to destroy Israel but for Moses intervention.
Again I Genesis, Abraham did not make God to change his mind.
Maybe I am not getting your point.
So let me ask today, can we get God to change his mind?

Yes, the Bible used the word sought 'favor from the Lord'.

Moses sought the favor.

Abraham did the same and God gave him a condition. If the Condition was met, Sodom and Gomorrah won't be destroyed.

Just like we should perish but the condition is to accept Christ and then everlasting life.

11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand?

Exodus 32:11 NIV

MightySparrow:


The promise to Abraham goes beyond that. It became a covenant. Covenant puts a limit to one's use of power. You submit your strength for the other.


Having studied covenant for about fifteen years now, I almost conclude, why would God do that?

Later in the scriptures, God was looking for intercessors, those who would appeal to him on behalf of Israelites.


God is the only wise. Perfect in all his ways.

Absolutely!, he is a covenant keeping God.

Reason why John 3:16 is valid. 'For whosoever'.

The answer to your question is "yes", but the right word you should use is "entreat", because no one can advice God. You can also see the same thing playing out when Hezekiah was told he will die, he entreated God, fasted and prayed, and God heard him.

Ayo081:


Yes, the Bible used the word sought 'favor from the Lord'.

Moses sought the favor.

Abraham did the same and God gave him a condition. If the Condition was met, Sodom and Gomorrah won't be destroyed.

Just like we should perish but the condition is to accept Christ and then everlasting life.

The phase, Sought favor from God does not change the incident.
In Abraham's case, God clearly knew Sodom and Gomorrah were ropen for destruction, the cities could not be redeemed.
It seems you don't Get me, I understand God's mercy and forgiveness.
I understand prayer and asking God for something.
But in Moses case, God was angry and wanted to destroy Israel until Moses gave him reason to change his mind.
My point is, he did not need Moses, he us many time wiser and more reasonable than man.
I can understand mercy and forgiveness. But thi's was not the case.
Moses points were 1. The people would laugh and mock God.
2. Moses reminded him of his promise to Abraham.

LilMissFavvy:
The answer to your question is "yes", but the right word you should use is "entreat", because no one can advice God. You can also see the same thing playing out when Hezekiah was told he will die, he entreated God, fasted and prayed, and God heard him.

I believe the case with Hezekiah is different

He pleaded and the Lord granted his wises which did not even end well for his kingdom.
I get a loving father listening and granting his children's wishes.
In Moses case, Moses gave the Lord good reason why destroying Israel was not the best idea. Moses seemed to know better and a God heeded his council

Ayo081:


Absolutely!, he is a covenant keeping God.

Reason why John 3:16 is valid. 'For whosoever'.

Except that Israel did not repent. It was Moses giving the Lord reason to spear them

Answer is "yes".

tctrills:

The phase, Sought favor from God does not change the incident.
In Abraham's case, God clearly knew Sodom and Gomorrah were ropen for destruction, the cities could not be redeemed.
It seems you don't Get me, I understand God's mercy and forgiveness.
I understand prayer and asking God for something.
But in Moses case, God was angry and wanted to destroy Israel until Moses gave him reason to change his mind.
My point is, he did not need Moses, he us many time wiser and more reasonable than man.
I can understand mercy and forgiveness. But thi's was not the case.
Moses points were 1. The people would laugh and mock God.
2. Moses reminded him of his promise to Abraham.

While I try to get you or not, Or you try to get me or not, I have been able to reflect on the kinda people God wants and will trusts as His shepherd (call it whatever, maybe disciple). Those that have compassion.

Abraham, Moses and Christ fit into this.

Ayo081:


While I try to get you or not, Or you try to get me or not, I have been able to reflect on the kinda people God wants and will trusts as His shepherd (call it whatever, maybe disciple). Those that have compassion.

Abraham, Moses and Christ fit into this.

Like you said, I don't get you. Anyway thanks for your contributions to the post.

tctrills:

Now you are going into speculation. Why wouldn't the CIA director not read his files. Such a director should be sacked.

Men you are an evil as I have been feeling.

He is The Owner and CEO of CIA so no one can sack Him.

2) Even little me who has Cctv watching and recording my employees know that I do not need to keep my eyes on the Monitor to watch them. I AM VERY FREE TO TRAVEL AND DO OTHER THINGS until when I need to know what happened in my absence or the Truth of a Matter brought to my attention.

And no one can question my Authority nor my Rights and Freedoms, So is it now God you dare to question or even think to insult and threaten with Sacking?

You are very evil indeed.

tctrills:

You quote Genesis 18.21 and your explanation is thar God doesn't know what is happening everywhere at all times. Wow really interesting. You have simply said God isn't all knowing. You mean to say that there are things God isn't aware of at the moment?

I said what I said and you got it. But because you are an evil person and the only thing you see is evil, therefore, you are trying to put poison in a thing which did not have any evil in it.

tctrills:

Well if that is how you see God then I understand why you think he needs Moses to advise him.

See how great your evil is. Where you not the one who asked this foolish evil question?

Just because I presumed to your benefit that your question could be bonafide (though I suspected it was not) which is why you now saying what I did not say.

WHEREAS I HAVE SAID AND SAYING THAT GOD WOULD HAVE DONE WHATEVER HE DECIDED TO DO BUT BECAUSE HE WAS CLEARLY SHOWING THAT HE LOVED AND RESPECTED MOSES, HE THEREFORE CHOSE TO IMPLEMENT MOSES'S THINKING EXACTLY AS GOOD LEADERS DO.

Which is something I do to my employees a lot.

But an evil person will never like to see the Good or specifically that this matter was Good.

Dtruthspeaker:


Men you are an evil as I have been feeling.

He is The Owner and CEO of CIA so no one can sack Him.

2) Even little me who has Cctv watching and recording my employees know that I do not need to keep my eyes on the Monitor to watch them. I AM VERY FREE TO TRAVEL AND DO OTHER THINGS until when I need to know what happened in my absence or the Truth of a Matter brought to my attention.

And no one can question my Authority nor my Rights and Freedoms, So is it now God you dare to question or even think to insult and threaten with Sacking?

You are very evil indeed.



I said what I said and you got it. But because you are an evil person and the only thing you see is evil, therefore, you are trying to put poison in a thing which did not have any evil in it.



See how great your evil is. Where you not the one who asked this foolish evil question?

Just because I presumed to your benefit that your question could be bonafide (though I suspected it was not) which is why you now saying what I did not say.

WHEREAS I HAVE SAID AND SAYING THAT GOD WOULD HAVE DONE WHATEVER HE DECIDED TO DO BUT BECAUSE HE WAS CLEARLY SHOWING THAT HE LOVED AND RESPECTED MOSES, HE THEREFORE CHOSE TO IMPLEMENT MOSES'S THINKING EXACTLY AS GOOD LEADERS DO.

Which is something I do to my employees a lot.

But an evil person will never like to see the Good or specifically that this matter was Good.

Can you employ an atheist?





I am not saying I want to work for you


Just asking

HellVictorinho:

Can you employ an atheist?

I am not saying I want to work for you

Just asking

In employment I only need 2 things
1) Ability to get work efficiently done,
2) Ability to reasonable relate with other persons and co workers.

All your personal proclivities should stay personal and should not unreasonably interfere with work and the working environment.

Dtruthspeaker:


In employment I only need 2 things
1) Ability to get work efficiently done,
2) Ability to reasonable relate with other persons and co workers.

All your personal proclivities should stay personal and should not unreasonably interfere with work and the working environment.

What jobs are involved?