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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? (9520 Views)
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Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by paltielx: 5:40pm On Nov 07, 2021 |
Emusan:lolz not true, Bibles like RSV, KJV, ASV all have the name Jehovah, though not in all verses which that name appeared in the original manuscript 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Emusan(m): 5:46pm On Nov 07, 2021 |
paltielx: So they have it! Yet you say this "...its the interpreters that fail to put it in translation claiming it too holy for us to call that name" The name was even used in many Hymn, how come? Could it be that you're lying or you are confused? 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by MightySparrow: 7:06am On Nov 08, 2021 |
Janosky: Continue in your delusion. My Papa has not been interrogated by EFCC. Why the silence? Continue to live in your abysmal ignorance and praise yourself. |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Janosky: 8:47am On Nov 08, 2021 |
MightySparrow: How many of your country men indicted in that secret offshore tax havens scandal have been interrogated? Continue to console yourself |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Janosky: 8:52am On Nov 08, 2021 |
Emusan: Your name is in your own book @ 7000 places, & you saw it in only 4 place. In 6996 places your name was removed & replaced with a title, would you endorse it? Dishonest LIENUS |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Janosky: 8:57am On Nov 08, 2021 |
Emusan: Revelation19:1-4,6 ,Mark 12:29, John 5:43 & John 17:6. Jesus knew his Father's name, called the name and made the name known to ALL. Dishonest LIENUS DECEIVING himself |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Janosky: 9:02am On Nov 08, 2021 |
MightySparrow:Yes nau. 3 Idol doghead deities are with you and your gods of men. The one true God, JEHOVAH is with His people, chosen and called by His name. Numbers 6:27,2 Chronicles 7:14,Acts15:14,17-18. |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by MightySparrow: 9:21am On Nov 08, 2021 |
Janosky: |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by MightySparrow: 9:26am On Nov 08, 2021 |
Janosky: If the allegation is true, and evading tax is a serious offence, the government should take action. Late Pastor. David Yonggi Cho, got imprisoned for financial scam, even after retirement. If our government would not take action, why weeping here on Nairaland? Note: this man is an unrepentant critic of this Administration. So? |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by hupernikao: 9:39am On Nov 08, 2021 |
haddeylium: You have won sè. What else do you want to here. |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by hupernikao: 9:58am On Nov 08, 2021 |
Janosky: You argue in confusion. Go and read the OP again and my first comment. You will see how much you are contradicting yourself and the very OP you are supporting. You are only confirming my stand with everything you write. 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by johnw47: 11:58pm On Nov 08, 2021 |
Janosky: blasphemer fraud jw janosky u false jw's love to call The Bible's Father, Son, and Holy Spirit "3 idol doghead dieties" etc.etc.etc. u also love to call The Holy spirit "the ole demon ghost" etc.etc. truly you will have your reward Mar 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin Exo_20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Psa_139:20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Rev 21:8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Janosky: 12:13am On Nov 09, 2021 |
hupernikao:Janosky asks hupernikao: "Did the one you call "Jesus", refer to himself as 'Jesus'?" Hupernikao, Carry your GIBBERISH outta this forum. . |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Janosky: 12:24am On Nov 09, 2021 |
MightySparrow:The one true God, JEHOVAH is with His people, chosen and called by His name. Numbers 6:27,2 Chronicles 7:14 and Acts15:14,17-18. (ASV) dey pain you? |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Janosky: 12:32am On Nov 09, 2021 |
MightySparrow:Your "Papa" fleece you dey Store una "treasures" inside him secret offshore tax havens, yet your name no dey any of the account. He climbs pulpit and tells Sparrow to store treasure in heaven,who is fooling who? |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by achorladey: 6:28am On Nov 09, 2021 |
Janosky: Your "Papa" fleece you dey Store una "treasures" inside him secret offshore tax havens, yet your name no dey any of the account.......... Janosky Your those you call Jesus's brothers and religious leaders aka Governing Body exercising DOMINION over you keep collecting money even from the poor to BUILD Jollywood studios tearing old store houses and building new ones and even asked the poor in your midst to do more and you know God's kingdom is coming tomorrow and yet your name no dey any of the account and even the kingdom some of you and your likes built with hard earned money and efforts have been taken away . Janosky how much you accept to contribute monthly as directed by your taskmasters? Can you tell us? Are the poor publishers in your midst spared? Do the children not of working age and are publishers spared. Oh I forget the children are asked to let go of their ice cream(ask Caleb and Sophia) money as well. He climbs pulpit and tells Sparrow to store treasure in heaven,who is fooling who...Janosky Na to pick out the foolishness of others you sabi but you forget they climb the same pulpit like your religious leaders and tell you to store up treasures in heaven using your material possessions that to advance their agenda you call ARCHAIC IDEAS, TO BE MOCKED AND ARE IRRELEVANT AS A RESULT OF RECENT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE Example below in your favourite song book 1 Like
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Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:41am On Nov 09, 2021 |
Janosky: They accepted them as men of their God not because they have anything to show as proof but the success of these people in accumulating material possessions and their affluence in the society. You accepted the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses because you can see the organization of peace loving worshipers fully prepared to submit themselves willingly to the GB. So what else do you think Oyedepo need to continue as their man of God if not the material possessions he is accumulating in his name? TB Joshua is dead now, there is trouble over the assets he left behind. The disciples are fighting his family because what they were worshiping is Mammon (God of riches) and the man's wife wants to keep it to herself and the family. Their idols are silver and gold, The work of human hands. A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; Eyes, but they cannot see; Ears they have, but they cannot hear; A nose, but they cannot smell;Hands they have, but they cannot feel; Feet, but they cannot walk; They make no sound with their throat. The people who make them will become just like them, As will all those who trust in them. Psalms 115:4-8 The only earthly asset of the GB is the organization of peace loving worshipers that's why you and i are preaching zealously and industriously teaching in all our neighbourhood to increase this asset, that's what the GB, you, i and every other member of JWs cherish. Mark 10:29; Micah 4:1-3 So while their own Gods have failed them Satan is spitefully instigating them against us seeing that our own asset which is the organization remain standing tall above all! Matthew 5:14-16 That's why they are ashamed of declaring their religion but trying to hide under the deluded countless sects having contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of denominations of one religion. Revelations 6:16 If not the other day i caught this one talking about Oyedepo has he ever declared that he is a member of winners? My brother let's rejoice that we have the truth, he will soon come and tell you that everything is delusion as his own religion can't stand the test of faith! 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by achorladey: 7:26am On Nov 09, 2021 |
MaxInDHouse: They accepted them as men of their God not because they have anything to show as proof but the success of these people in accumulating material possessions and their affluence in the society.....MaxInDHouse And yet they have nothing to show as proof The same material possessions they keep accumulating is what your religious do as well even ask the poor amongst you to do more. You accepted the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses because you can see the organization of peace loving worshipers fully prepared to submit themselves willingly to the GB...... MaxInDHouse You know Christian of other religious denominations go to their gatherings everyday with weapons of war and mass destruction The only earthly asset of the GB is the organization of peace loving worshipers that's why you and i are preaching zealously and industriously teaching in all our neighbourhood to increase this asset, that's what the GB, you, i and every other member of JWs cherish...... MaxInDHouse And you want to die arguing and defending why your religious leaders should keep collecting the riches of those under them and about those under your religious leaders to will all their lifelong possessions to the organization controlled and managed by your religious leaders the other time. . But here you are the only earthly assets are the worshippers. My brother let's rejoice that we have the truth.... MaxInDHouse The truth that your brother called ARCHAIC IDEAS, TO BE MOCKED AND ARE IRRELEVANT AS A RESULT OF RECENT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE Or ABSOLUTE truth that are becoming past absolute truth, present absolute truth or future absolute truth ask Haddey, he will explain better. The disciples are fighting his family because what they were worshiping is Mammon (God of riches) and the man's wife wants to keep it to herself and the family. Their idols are silver and gold, The work of human hands. A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; Eyes, but they cannot see; Ears they have, but they cannot hear; A nose, but they cannot smell;Hands they have, but they cannot feel; Feet, but they cannot walk; They make no sound with their throat. The people who make them will become just like them, As will all those who trust in them. Psalms 115:4-8 Same of same Their idols are silver and gold. The poor ones amidst you are to submit these silver and gold. 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by hupernikao: 10:05am On Nov 09, 2021 |
Janosky: Like I told you. You don't read properly. Still go back to the OP and my first comment and read again to see how your question is supporting my stand. You are only exposing more how wrong your fellow OP is. Fighting over name than essence. When you start reading properly, you will be able to write properly. 2 Likes |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by MightySparrow: 12:20pm On Nov 09, 2021 |
Janosky: I asked a question you are dodging. 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Emusan(m): 3:04pm On Nov 10, 2021 |
Janosky: So how did Jesus pronounce the name? 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by Emusan(m): 3:10pm On Nov 10, 2021 |
Janosky: At least you confirmed the name is there unlike the lies your brother told here, which means what Watchtower breeds are liar and dishonest people. 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by haddeylium(m): 7:12pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
JESUS IS LORD! When you ask people who is the Lord in verses in the bible referring to, they will tell you without doubt that's Jesus. WHY? This is because God's name 'Jehovah' has been removed and replaced with a common title “Lord" to mislead people to focus on the Son of God as a “Lord.” So, when most people examine the 2 “Lords" at Psalm 110:1 to see > They are confused to which one is greater and which one obeys the orders of the other Outside of NWT(New world translation)I compiled a list of Translations where Jehovah's name is in the actual places it originally was written? The Divine Name King James Bible (2011). It uses “Jehovah” in 6,972 places in the Old Testament, plus 128 times in the NT in parentheses. (Don't mistake it for KJV) They're following The American Standard Version and The Bible in Living English, in restoring the Divine Name where it was originally written. Other translations that use the name “Jehovah” about 7,000 times: The Julia Evelina Smith Parker Translation Green’s Literal Translation The Recovery Version The New Heart English Translation (Jehovah Edition) There are some translations that use the form “Yahweh” about 7,000 times: Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible The Jerusalem Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible The Christian Community Bible The Word English Bible Nigerians are not familiar with many of these translations other than the traditional KJV. The goodnews is that you can download them online and read . I'll recommend Biblehub.com You can also Visit Jw.org to have access to them 1 Like 1 Share
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Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:39pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
haddeylium:The first scripture that stroke my heart was Psalms 110:1 where my Bible back then talked about two Lords. One of my neighbours back then usually come after the Witnesses are gone to contradict what i learnt but that day i showed him that verse and asked him which between the two Lords is Jesus. He had to go and meet his pastor who strictly warned him to stop discussing with me, though he pretended as if he forgot but after much pestering he open up that his pastor said he should stop talking to me. Again at Jude 9 where Archangel Michael told Satan "the Lord will rebuke you" the churches of Christendom thought the Lord there means Jesus whereas a diligent study revealed that the archangel Michael is Jesus while the Lord there is Jehovah! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by haddeylium(m): 7:42pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
I've addressed this part earlier and I'll do so again for emphasis due some misinformed folks. Did Jesus never address his Father as 'Jehovah' in the NT(New testament). Do you think the bible translators that removed God's name in the OT will not do the same in NT? The OP discussed the baseless reasons people gave for removing his name from his own book. Jesus denounced the man-made traditions being presented as God-inspired doctrines. So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines. (Mt 15:6, 9) Jesus would have never followed these man-made traditions. He would have rebuked them like he did all the erroneous things the religious leaders were doing at that time. Infact he used that name so many times in my previous answers haddeylium: Likewise, Jesus expressed that he came to earth in his Father’s name. [b]I have come in the name [YHWH] of my Father, but you do not receive me. If someone else came in his own name, you would receive that one. (Jo 5:43) There are many Gods but for others to know what name he was representing he would have had to mention it to those that he was teaching as a means for them to do the same. An example of this is when Jesus taught us how to pray. Jesus instructed us to pray for his Father’s name to be sanctified. “You must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name [YHWH] be sanctified. (Mt 6:9) He could not have sanctified YHWH’s name unless he used it openly. He also would not have taught his disciples to sanctify the name unless he intended them to use it as well. Jesus came to this earth to make His Father’s name known. I have made your name [YHWH] known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them .” (Jo 17:26) How can you make something known unless you tell others what it is?? There are no doubt countless instances that remained undocumented where Jesus used God’s name. While he sanctified, represented, made known, and glorified the divine name, YHWH, Jesus would have proclaimed his Father's name at every opportunity he could find. As true Christians, we are admonished to “follow his [Jesus] steps closely;” “To this course you were called.” (1 Pet 2:21) So we today should also be looking for the same opportunities to sanctify, glorify, make known, and glorify the divine name as well. Remember, doing so means our salvation. Aaron. 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by haddeylium(m): 7:56pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
MaxInDHouse: Anybody still wants to ask why God's name is removed and replaced with a common title? They know that their doctrine cannot stand with an unaltered God's words. In Psalm 110:1 (KJV) The “Lord” is seating at the right hand of the “LORD”, as the “Lord” awaits instructions from the LORD to go conquer. Therefore, LORD is dominate and Lord is submissive to the commands of the LORD. Thee Lord plays a submissive roll and other 'LORD' is superior. Hallelujah 2 Likes |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by paltielx: 9:44pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
Emusan:confused! On what? |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by achorladey: 10:50pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
haddeylium: When you ask people who is the Lord in verses in the bible referring to, they will tell you without doubt that's Jesus....... Haddeylium For your mind you think that they are not correct but here is why they are correct to state so and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are+ and we through him. So when others say Jesus is Lord they are not only correct they know what they are talking about. No pack traditions of men into their brains. This is because God's name 'Jehovah' has been removed and replaced with a common title “Lord" to mislead people to focus on the Son of God as a “Lord”.......Haddeylium Lord is not misleading people to focus on Jesus as Lord or(is Lord). These people you are talking about accept Jesus is Lord and know that he is Lord and saviour. WHY..... Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah You see how this your thread no get basis. You are the one imposing traditions of men on the scripture and into people based on those ARCHAIC IDEAS you obtained from your taskmasters It uses “Jehovah” in 6,972 places in the Old Testament, plus 128 times in the NT in parentheses. (Don't mistake it for KJV) They're following The American Standard Version and The Bible in Living English, in restoring the Divine Name where it was originally written..... Haddeylium With the above, this thread has no basis from the start. 1. Should you compare the time and year of existence of ASV with the NWT. That is enough to tell you the thread no get basis. 2. Should you compare ASV translation to the birth of the religious organization you belong this thread has no basis. Why? The name "JEHOVAH" which you posit was removed 1. Did not originate with your religious organization 2. The name "JEHOVAH" is older than RUSSELL the founding father of the religious organization you belong of which RUSSELL was aware and never made issues about it. 3. The name "JEHOVAH" was COINED by those you are say removed it. That alone na contradiction 1 4. Frederick Franz the only seemingly Bible scholar the organization you belong ever know and have said..... Jesus and his apostles never for once have the name on their LIPS. . Contradictions 2. For you to say they used the name JEHOVAH means you have to produce the account where JESUS used the name "JEHOVAH" that was coined +/- 500 years ago. 5. The name Jehovah belongs to those you call christendom and by extension Babylon the great aka empire of false religion. It is the name they coined and used in calling God that you and your founding father decide to bear. You see why christendom and Babylon the great are una papa and mama too These are the reasons this thread has no basis. Going round to explain yourself repeatedly won't change the simple fact that that name never originated with your religious organisation and those you accuse of removing it were the original owner, pioneer and users of it long before the religious organization you belong and its founding fathers dreamt of being born. Abandon those your ARCHAIC IDEAS, TO BE MOCKED AND ARE IRRELEVANT AS A RESULT OF RECENT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE. Janos knows and understand the above. |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by achorladey: 10:59pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
haddeylium: Did Jesus never address his Father as 'Jehovah' in the NT(New testament)...... Haddeylium As answered by one of your late religious leaders- Frederick Franz..... Never for once did Jesus christ used the name or was found in his lips[/b]i . Do you [b]agree or your religious leaders na LIAR or na PAST ABSOLUTE TRUTH? Do you think the bible translators that removed God's name in the OT will not do the same in NT?...... Haddeylium According to Fred Franz..... Jehovah unquestionably arranged the omission of his name(JEHOVAH) from the new testament during our ERA. Do you believe this or they are LIES or ARCHAIC IDEAS, TO BE MOCKED AND ARE IRRELEVANT AS A RESULT OF RECENT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE? Whatever you decide to choose will just be fine. Jesus denounced the man-made traditions being presented as God-inspired doctrines. We know how hard it is for you to impose your doctrines and traditions of your taskmasters over the years into people. We equally understand the need to count seconds, minutes and hours for them as they repeatedly task you. Everyone knows it is not JEHOVAH that was found in the manuscript Jesus quoted. So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines. (Mt 15:6, 9)..... Haddeylium The commands of men they impose here is saying Jesus is not Lord and imposing it on people to call God by fire by force the name Jehovah which was coined +/-500 years ago and never was it found on the lips of Jesus Christ or apostles As true Christians, we are admonished to “follow his [Jesus][/b] steps closely;” “To this course you were called.” (1 Pet 2:21) So we today should also be looking for the same opportunities to sanctify, glorify, make known, and glorify the divine name as well. Remember, doing so means our salvation.... Haddeylium For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is [b]above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend —of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground — 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father(not God the Jehovah ). Calling on the name of Jesus is calling on the Father . Imposing another name is irrelevant after all he Jesus said he had come in the name of his father and the name they call the person who came in the name of his father is not JEHOVAH but JESUS No wonder Paul wrote the account up there |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by achorladey: 11:12pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
haddeylium: They know that their doctrine cannot stand with an unaltered God's words...... Haddeylium Do you think of asking yourself the same question above? Others bear witness about Jesus that was one of his last statements but you and your religious organisation choose to bear witness to a name that was coined +/- 500 years ago. Who is really altering God's word and following the TRADITIONS OF MEN HERE? |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by achorladey: 11:18pm On Nov 12, 2021 |
Emusan: No mind am na JEHOOOOOOOOBER Jesus pronounce 1 Like |
Re: Why Is God's Name 'JEHOVAH' Not In Your Bible? by achorladey: 7:38am On Nov 13, 2021 |
When you ask people who is the Lord in verses in the bible referring to, they will tell you without doubt that's Jesus....... Haddeylium For your mind you think that they are not correct but here is why they are correct to state so and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are+ and we through him. When others say Jesus is Lord they are not only correct they know what they are talking about. No pack traditions of men into their brains. This is because God's name 'Jehovah' has been removed and replaced with a common title “Lord" to mislead people to focus on the Son of God as a “Lord”.......Haddeylium Lord is not misleading people to focus on Jesus as Lord or(is Lord). These people you are talking about accept Jesus is Lord and know that he is Lord and saviour. WHY..... Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah You see how this your thread no get basis. You are the one imposing traditions of men on the scripture and into people based on those ARCHAIC IDEAS you obtained from your taskmasters . In fact the misleading and by extension deception is coming from Haddeylium for trying to take the focus that Jesus is Lord away from these other people he condemned and falsely accused that they removed God's name from the Bible. It uses “Jehovah” in 6,972 places in the Old Testament, plus 128 times in the NT in parentheses. (Don't mistake it for KJV) With the above, this thread has no basis from the start. 1. Should you compare the time and year of existence of ASV with the NWT. That is enough to tell you the thread no get basis. 2. Should you compare ASV translation to the birth of the religious organization you belong this thread has no basis. Why? The name "JEHOVAH" which you posit was removed A. Did not originate with your religious organization B. The name "JEHOVAH" is older than RUSSELL the founding father of the religious organization you belong of which RUSSELL was aware and never made issues about it. C. The name "JEHOVAH" was COINED by those you are say removed it. That alone na contradiction 1 D. Frederick Franz the only seemingly Bible scholar the organization you belong ever know and have said..... Jesus and his apostles never for once have the name on their LIPS. . Contradictions 2. For you to say they used the name JEHOVAH means you have to produce the account where JESUS used the name "JEHOVAH" that was coined +/- 500 years ago. E. The name Jehovah belongs to those you call christendom and by extension Babylon the great aka empire of false religion. It is the name they coined and used in calling God that you and your founding father decide to bear. You see why christendom and Babylon the great are una papa and mama too These are the reasons this thread has no basis. Going round to explain yourself repeatedly won't change the simple fact that that name never originated with your religious organisation and those you accuse of removing it were the original owner, pioneer and users of it long before the religious organization you belong and its founding fathers dreamt of being born. Abandon those your ARCHAIC IDEAS, TO BE MOCKED AND ARE IRRELEVANT AS A RESULT OF RECENT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE. Janos knows and understand the above.
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