A001:

Can you remind me again why you criticize Christianity and Islam because here you're stating the local cultures and languages are dead (even though they're not) and clamoring for English to become the universal language?

You might as well start clamoring for Christianity to become the universal religion since most Igbos don't revere Amadioha or Chukwu, who they call Yahweh or Allah ignorantly. These posts reek of utter confusion.

Christ!!! Do you even know my position on these things at all?? How are you not understanding me?

You know I'm an atheist. I don't believe in the existence of a supreme being. So why would I clamour for the adoption of ANY religion in the first place??
God, Allah, sango, amadioha, oshimiri etc these are all fictional characters invented by our old societies to make sense of the things around them and as a means of control.

I have always championed the demise of religion. One less thing to divide humanity.
Please reason rationally. Don't be one of those people stuck in a rabbit hole

donjazet:


My good friend. I know you're big on this African culture stuff. Your hatred for the religious encroachment of Islam and Christianity into Africa extends to your disdain of our own acculturation of the white man and his ideals.

But you need to let go of the past and look into the future. What is really the need for us to espouse our tribes?? Really look into that question.

Let me assume that you're yoruba. I'm Igbo.
What is the practical use of your language over mine?? Is it not this English language that is connecting both of us??
Does you being Yoruba add any special value over me being igbo.? All these affiliations are purely sentimental.

No need to brood over it. There is truly nothing wrong with our cultures dying. They have no practical use. Me being an Igbo man living, having a cultural identity as an Igbo man when I live in Maryland Lagos is useless.
I am Igbo in all but name.
You may think that espousing the English language means espousing the white man but that's not true.

The British that taught us the language don't even have an autonomy over the language again.

The English language has become the default language of the world. That's why it has even had variations of it. IE, American English, Australian English, pidgin English, Jamaican English {rastafarian} . Etc.

There is no use fighting change, we just have to succumb to it.

You're not realistic. You might as well start clamoring for Christianity, the religion of most English-speaking nations, as the universal religion all in a bid to have a united (utopian) world.

Your posts are a classic example of what it's called policy somersault common in successive governments of Nigeria.

So far, you've failed to give practical reasons why you think having a single language, religion will bring about a united world.

You've only shown your dislike/disdain for the Ibo culture like most Africans with deeply ingrained inferiority complex do as regards their local culture.

A001:

The inferiority complex I mentioned doesn't apply to Wole Soyinka because he always promotes the indigenous Yoruba culture in his works, criticizes the foreign imported religions that stiffle the development of our local cultures and languages.

And he's forced to write in English because it's the language of our colonial masters and one of the most popular languages in the world.

To people like Wole Soyinka, English is an important language, but is not the best language in the world.

For a Yoruba person, Yoruba language is the best language in the world. It's only inferiority complex and/or mental slavery that will make a Yoruba person feel otherwise.

Well as per the bold part of ur statement , my both parents are Yoruba; I guess I can say I’m a Yoruba person . Yet I don’t believe Yoruba is the best language in the world ; in fact I don’t believe there’s anything like “the best language in the world “. To me language is just a means/system of communicating with ur fellow humans , transmitting cultures over time , transferring knowledge , etc.

I understand ur point concerning Donj thinking the whole idea of universal is possible especially the line of thought that our own Languages/cultures having to give way for a universally acceptable one. I also don’t believe it’s possible or achievable in centuries to come. Human beings are too complex for such thing to come to fruition. Shey it is the Chinese that have held on to mandarin for centuries , refused to learn English nor speak it even when they understand it and are in a gathering of mostly English speakers ; are they the people that will embrace any universal language that is not mandarin ?

donjazet:


Christ!!! Do you even know my position on these things at all?? How are you not understanding me?

You know I'm an atheist. I don't believe in the existence of a supreme being. So why would I clamour for the adoption of ANY religion in the first place??
God, Allah, sango, amadioha, oshimiri etc these are all fictional characters invented by our old societies to make sense of the things around them and as a means of control.

I have always championed the demise of religion. One less thing to divide humanity.
Please reason rationally. Don't be one of those people stuck in a rabbit hole

It's true differences in language and religion are a barrier when relating with other people.

But clamoring for English to become a universal language and saying you prefer the local languages with millions of speakers in Nigeria and abroad to die out is simply unreasonable.

If you want religion to be wiped out because it divides people (which is true), then you should also clamor for language to be wiped out because it has the same effect.

But you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It's unrealistic to think religion or language will die. But any particular religion or language can die with time paving way for new ones.

Yet, no one should gloat over or want their language to die because it means such a people will become slaves.

Once the language of a people is dead, their culture will also die naturally. That means such a people have lost their identity.

Every reasonable person strives to keep their language alive and prevent it from dying to preserve their identity and values.

With time, the two popular toxic religions (Christianity and Islam) will die naturally when more advances are made in science, and future people will be rationalists and regard things like music, football, etc. as their religion.

But religion can't die completely.

This sort of ill-thought ideas shouldn't be coming from an atheist (who are mostly highly intelligent people), but the adherents of the foreign religions and their gods because they're the ones that usually demonize anything indigenous to Africa.

BlueRayDick:


Well as per the bold part of ur statement , my both parents are Yoruba; I guess I can say I’m a Yoruba person . Yet I don’t believe Yoruba is the best language in the world ; in fact I don’t believe there’s anything like “the best language in the world “. To me language is just a means/system of communicating with ur fellow humans , transmitting cultures over time , transferring knowledge , etc.

I understand ur point concerning Donj thinking the whole idea of universal is possible especially the line of thought that our own Languages/cultures having to give way for a universally acceptable one. I also don’t believe it’s possible or achievable in centuries to come. Human beings are too complex for such thing to come to fruition. Shey it is the Chinese that have held on to mandarin for centuries , refused to learn English nor speak it even when they understand it and are in a gathering of mostly English speakers ; are they the people that will embrace any universal language that is not mandarin ?

Okay.

A001:

You're not realistic. You might as well start clamoring for Christianity, the religion of most English-speaking nations, as the universal religion all in a bid to have a united (utopian) world.

Your posts are a classic example of what it's called policy somersault common in successive governments of Nigeria.

So far, you've failed to give practical reasons why you think having a single language, religion will bring about a united world.
You've only shown your dislike/disdain for the Ibo culture like most Africans with deeply ingrained inferiority complex do as regards their local culture.

You are jumping from point A to point F. You're not coherent enough in your thought process.

How does me championing a common language automatically translate to a disdain of my culture.

I am telling you that I am indifferent to my culture. Me being igbo adds nothing of value to my life. I don't hate it, neither do I love it, I just don't care.
Neither should you.

You know, this is not highlighted enough. It's egregious seeing a black man (not you) who prays to a foreign religious God, does a white man's traditional wedding {white wedding}, talk about espousing his cultural values. It's hypocritical.

But again, I don't personally believe in these things, we keep learning new ways of life {culture} everyday.
And again, I am not saying that speaking one language universally will automatically translate into us not having divisions but it will inevitably help in us understanding ourselves better. That is simply a practical use. We are both practicing that now.

Take this thread for example. All the participants of these thread are most likely from more than 10 different ethnic groups but we're able to share our love of football {white man's sports} together in English. We know the entertainment value of football to us and we share that joy together because we speak the same language. That's practical. Our culture has no use here.

BlueRayDick:


Africans take pride in speaking language like English , French because those are the languages Africans were taught in schools from formative years up to the university level. Most European countries are taught in their own local language and then a foreign language is added as optional( like we have French in some schools in Africa) . Africans are not as privileged as their European counterparts who weren’t really forced to learn and adopt a foreign language like English as lingua Franca .

Someone like Wole Soyinka takes pride speaking English language because that’s the language of instruction in Nigeria where he had most of his education. If the prof had been spanish born and bred in Spain he would probably have maintained that same pride writing books in Spanish language , getting international recognition doing it too. This is where I have issue with Reno’s point . He added people like Wole Soyinka who takes pride in speaking and writing English ( a foreign language ) , to a list of those who achieved great things with native names and then in the next paragraph he’s criticizing other Africans who do exactly same just because they bear white man’s name. I no just understand his point with those two contradicting paragraph.

Like I said earlier , I don’t think it makes much sense mocking u that didn’t grow to speak and learn English as first or second language like most people here.

You made a good point. As for Wole Soyinka I that’s his occupation and he should be good at it, I think he read englsih and literature as a course. I am good at my profession too. But when speaking informally you don’t mock people for not good at it, correction is allowed though. It’s just like a Spanish man laughing at a German for not speaking Spanish fluently.

donjazet:


You are jumping from point A to point F. You're not coherent enough in your thought process.

How does me championing a common language automatically translate to a disdain of my culture.

I am telling you that I am indifferent to my culture. Me being igbo adds nothing of value to my life. I don't hate it, neither do I love it, I just don't care.
Neither should you.

You know, this is not highlighted enough. It's egregious seeing a black man (not you) who prays to a foreign religious God, does a white man's traditional wedding {white wedding}, talk about espousing his cultural values. It's hypocritical.

But again, I don't personally believe in these things, we keep learning new ways of life {culture} everyday.
And again, I am not saying that speaking one language universally will automatically translate into us not having divisions but it will inevitably help in us understanding ourselves better. That is simply a practical use. We are both practicing that now.

Take this thread for example. All the participants of these thread are most likely from more than 10 different ethnic groups but we're able to share our love of football {white man's sports} together in English. We know the entertainment value of football to us and we share that joy together because we speak the same language. That's practical. Our culture has no use here.

It's disappointing and saddening you would say the highlighted.

If our cultures have no value, is it the English culture or the American that has value?

Is the English culture better than ours?

As a human, your culture is your identity and shows your core values.

If you value the culture of the colonial master, the English, over the Ibo culture, that makes you their slave.

What then makes you different from the religious people you criticize?

BlueRayDick:


I understand ur point concerning Donj thinking the whole idea of universal is possible especially the line of thought that our own Languages/cultures having to give way for a universally acceptable one. I also don’t believe it’s possible or achievable in centuries to come. Human beings are too complex for such thing to come to fruition. Shey it is the Chinese that have held on to mandarin for centuries , refused to learn English nor speak it even when they understand it and are in a gathering of mostly English speakers ; are they the people that will embrace any universal language that is not mandarin ?

Never say never. I am an idealist. Check the name of my diary. I choose to believe in the ultimate utopia. In show all things can be good, better than they are. I choose to dream big.
Idealism come with the burden of realizing that the change might not come in your lifetime but nonetheless, it will ultimately come..

It's intellectually lazy to say that change can't happen. No matter how big enough the challenge is.

The truth is that most of the human race all want the same thing.

What do we want in life? HAPPINESS and SATISFACTION. life is all about the pursuit of happiness. We all want it no matter where we come from, a negro or a Caucasian. We want the same things.
I just want us to see ourselves as the same human beings, not just a human being that is Igbo, then is Nigerian, then is African.
Notice how it's convenient to change our identities to either of these 3 categories when convenient.

Sometimes, we would proclaim to identify with our tribe, even though we don't even like the people in the next village, or we would proclaim to be Nigerians, even when we don't share much in common, or we proclaim to be African when we hate the chadians and south Africans as much as they hate us.

I want us to strip ourselves of these useless identities that divide us and identify as one.

Low-budget 'Wole Soyinka' can't make his point without calling religious people unintelligent ( in context).

donjazet:


I do love that, don't I??
That's what you get for calling me mentally enslaved when that is what word is loaded.

I would like any Igbo man here to tell me when last he revered amadioha, or went to an ofala or new yam festival. Or believes in the supremacy of our kings in the village as our highest political authority. Or officially taught their children the Igbo language.
Our culture is dead. Nothing to chestbeat

When did the bolded ever happen?

A001:

It's disappointing and saddening you would say the highlighted.

If our cultures have no value, is it the English culture or the American that has value?

Is the English culture better than ours?

As a human, your culture is your identity and shows your core values.

If you value the culture of the colonial master, the English, over the Ibo culture, that makes you their slave.

What then makes you different from the religious people you criticize?

this right here is the problem, forcing people into different social brackets under the guise of culture, meanwhile you people actually use force to maintain such conformity

my culture doesn't reveal my core values, it reveals the values that fools have allowed the elders of my culture to exert not mine

Havertz10:
this right here is the problem, forcing people into different social brackets under the guise of culture, meanwhile you people use force to exert such conformity

It's true that culture forces people into social brackets.

Culture has its good and bad aspects, but it's important to maintain social order and peace.

Havertz10:

my culture doesn't reveal my core values, it reveals the values that fools have allowed the elders of my culture choose to exert not mine

You should criticize the English culture with the same energy because as far as you're concerned it's superior to the local ones.

Greatihex:
When did the bolded ever happen?

Don't ever quote me with nonsense again.
Respect yourself.

The slave (head slammer) up there isn't bold enough to mention the poster he's referring to

A001:

It's disappointing and saddening you would say the highlighted.

If our cultures have no value, is it the English culture or the American that has value?

Is the English culture better than ours?

As a human, your culture is your identity and shows your core values.

If you value the culture of the colonial master, the English, over the Ibo culture, that makes you their slave.

What then makes you different from the religious people you criticize?

Point of correction. IGBO. There is nothing like Ibo.

donjazet:


I do love that, don't I??
That's what you get for calling me mentally enslaved when that is what word is loaded.

I would like any Igbo man here to tell me when last he revered amadioha, or went to an ofala or new yam festival. Or believes in the supremacy of our kings in the village as our highest political authority. Or officially taught their children the Igbo language.
Our culture is dead. Nothing to chestbeat

Its not dead because culture is an ideology, it’s inside of us.

Greatihex:
Point of correction. IGBO. There is nothing like Ibo.

Okay

hensben:
You made a good point. As for Wole Soyinka I that’s his occupation and he should be good at it, I think he read englsih and literature as a course. I am good at my profession too. But when speaking informally you don’t mock people for not good at it, correction is allowed though. It’s just like a Spanish man laughing at a German for not speaking Spanish fluently.

Hensben, leave all these things. Tell yourself the practical truth.
If you don't know how to speak English well In our own society. It's definitely going to serve as a hindrance to you in certain walks of life.

Factos, if you want to be a pilot today, you must learn the language well. If you wanted to work at the UN, you must learn the language.
This is a practical application, not a sentimental one. English language is spoken by more than 4 billion people worldwide. Not knowing the language does hinder your social progress in our society.

I don't know what you're defending. You've been advised to maybe use Google translator. On this platform, we all speak English or it's variations which we understand. When you do, it's usually difficult to understand yours. You usually fail in effective communication.
Sometimes you write long paragraphs without comma or full stop or good spacing. All these make it more difficult to decipher what you're saying.
Please learn the language better for us to understand you better.

donjazet:


Jesus Christ, this man just went to post Wikipedia page on African cultures.

Roland I'm truly disappointed that you can't see the picture as a whole.

African culture doesn't exist because we aren't a monolith. We don't have one culture, we have a multitude.

And the truth is that, our culture is already as dead as can be. If you are a Christian or moslem, know that you are spitting on your culture, many of us and most likely our children won't get to officially learn our native languages in school. As I speak to you. Only the 3 major languages in Nigeria are taught in schools. What of minority tribes like ijaw, ogoni, urobo, anan, eket, Ibibio and many other smaller tribes. The local languages are already dying everyday. Children of all these aforementioned tribes are learning and utilizing English.

Let me go further into detail as to how my own Igbo culture is already dead.
Growing up in my grandfather's days, their greatest festive days, were the ofala day, the new yam festival to mark the beginning of a farming season and the coronation of a king.
Our great grand father's worshipped and revered their gods. Amadioha, oshimiri, ijele, Ani and chukwu. Only the last god was coopted by the religion to enable an easier conversion process.

Forget all these "traditional attires" you see today as our culture. . My great grand father's people went mostly butt naked. They knew absolutely nothing of silk, cotton, wool etc that are being used as traditional dresses today which ironically was introduced to them by their colonizers and trade partners. They mostly went butt naked, with the women's breast enjoying fresh air every single day. Those nipples standing firm for all to see, waiting to be suckled. Occasionally covering their private parts with the skin of animals they've hunted in the bush.

The only thing that still shapes the Igbo cultural identity today is just the language and some cuisine. Even at that, those too are dying. Many igbos eat mostly cooked rice and enjoy beans as part of their daily meals. These were foreign to us. Nobody in igboland grew rice or beans.

I could go on and on, as to how our cultures are on their last breath but I would stop here.

Please the bold is not true.
Stop watching too many Nollywood movies and making your impression of Igboland from that.
In Ancient Igboland, we made beautiful clothes and wore them in cold conditions or some festivals. Of course we lived in hot rainforest, so most times we wore few clothes because of heat.
Google Akwete cloth weaving centres for a start.

Amoto94:
Low-budget 'Wole Soyinka' can't make his point without calling religious people unintelligent ( in context).

Is this for A001? What's your beef with him?

donjazet:


Don't ever quote me with nonsense again.
Respect yourself.

OK.

Greatihex:
OK.

My nigga
Now you see how it feels abi?

Additionally, most traditional Igbo societies were Republican and democratic and not monarchical, so unless you are from places like Onitsha and Agbor, whose monarchs were not even real Kings as lands still belong to Umunnas and not to the King, then I don't understand where and how celebrating Ofalas became a part of Ancient Igbo culture.

low budget wole soyinka how na, you people wouldn't kill me with laugh

Igboid:


Please the bold is not true.
Stop watching too many Nollywood movies and making your impression of Igboland from that.
In Ancient Igboland, we made beautiful clothes and wore them in cold conditions or some festivals. Of course we lived in hot rainforest, so most times we wore few clothes because of heat.
Google Akwete cloth weaving centres for a start.

My point still stands. These akwete or whatever, is it what we identify as our cultural wear today?? Is it not silk, cotton, wool etc which we use to identify ourselves?

Amoto94:
Low-budget 'Wole Soyinka' can't make his point without calling religious people unintelligent ( in context).

Religious people are actually the smartest on earth. Atheist are amongst the dullest.

ˆˆˆ

donjazet:


Is this for A001? What's your beef with him?

Only the guy knows who high budget Wole Soyinka and low budget Wole Soyinka are, both of which are both fictional characters that only exist in his small mind.

Being a slave of the moongod and practicing a religion that encourages slavery and slave-trading, it's expected he would add the word budget when talking about a human being like the Muslim slave traders used to do today in the past.

Una don start with this war of words again .... chai!

Igboid:


Please the bold is not true.
Stop watching too many Nollywood movies and making your impression of Igboland from that.
In Ancient Igboland, we made beautiful clothes and wore them in cold conditions or some festivals. Of course we lived in hot rainforest, so most times we wore few clothes because of heat.
Google Akwete cloth weaving centres for a start.

No wearing of cloths is white man culture. Now you know the level of inferiority complex in that nigga

donjazet:


Hensben, leave all these things. Tell yourself the practical truth.
If you don't know how to speak English well In our own society. It's definitely going to serve as a hindrance to you in certain walks of life.

Factos, if you want to be a pilot today, you must learn the language well. If you wanted to work at the UN, you must learn the language.
This is a practical application, not a sentimental one. English language is spoken by more than 4 billion people worldwide. Not knowing the language does hinder your social progress in our society.

I don't know what you're defending. You've been advised to maybe use Google translator. On this platform, we all speak English or it's variations which we understand. When you do, it's usually difficult to understand yours. You usually fail in effective communication.
Sometimes you write long paragraphs without comma or full stop or good spacing. All these make it more difficult to decipher what you're saying.
Please learn the language better for us to understand you better.

Who told you I don’t speak English, must I speak it well when I am not teaching English language to anybody. But nonetheless I’m not the type that don’t learn so for me to speak English language to this level shows I actually learnt.