Solofresh2:
Happy Sunday Nairalanders
Well,am sure we all are aware of the Bible verse that says "the wages of sin is death"
But to my knowledge,I find out that all humans must die and even some wicked people we know still live longer than the ones we call saints
Sometimes, you will see some wicked people live so long till old age before they die and you will also see some kind hearted people dying young.

If the wages of sin is death,then why do this wicked people live long and why do we believe everyone will still die

I think there is more to this Bible verse than we see it

Please any one with good knowledge should explain.Thanks

Lalasticlala please front page

The question is truely the definition of DEATH.
We have
Physical Death
Spiritual Death
Second Death

Death is a DISCONNECTION from the SOURCE!

Second Death is a Permanent DISCONNECTION of a person's Body, Soul and Spirit from God in a Prison called Lake of Fire

TenQ:

The question is truely the definition of DEATH.
We have
Physical Death
Spiritual Death
Second Death

Death is a DISCONNECTION from the SOURCE!

Second Death is a Permanent DISCONNECTION of a person's Body, Soul and Spirit from God in a Prison called Lake of Fire

There is no such thing as "Spiritual death". That idea was born of the delusions of men.

As for Death itself, it is as declared by God Himself in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22. The answers are to be obtained right there in scripture, not conjured up.

As for the second Death, as described by John in His book of dream/vision, a reference is made to eternal damnation as the second Death. Again, the answers are provided right there in scripture for us to learn from. We are not called to make these things up as we go.

Kobojunkie:
There is no such thing as "Spiritual death". That idea was born of the delusions of men.

As for Death itself, it is as declared by God Himself in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22. The answers are to be obtained right there in scripture, not conjured up.

As for the second Death, as described by John in His book of dream/vision, a reference is made to eternal damnation as the second Death. Again, the answers are provided right there in scripture for us to learn from. We are not called to make these things up as we go.

1Jn 3:14:
"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love one another. The person who does not love remains spiritually dead."

TenQ:

1Jn 3:14:
"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love one another. The person who does not love remains spiritually dead."

To understand what John meant by his use of the term, let's consult what he wrote Jesus Christ said on the topic... of spirit, shall we?

In John 3 vs 1 - 8, Jesus Christ explained to Nicodemus that a man has to first become be born-again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God - you have to be born from water and from spirit. In the same context, Jesus Christ explained that when we are born, we only experience a physical birth but to enter into the Kingdom of God, one has to experience a spiritual kind- Ezekiel 36 vs 25 says a new spirit is installed in us at that point.

Back to John's letter then, was John insinuating that those who are not born-again (born from spirit) are born spiritually dead, this ofcourse beginning with Adam himself who was intentionally created so by Almighty God?

Or was John referring to an idea to be compared to Death as defined by God as punishment for unbelief in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22

Kobojunkie:
To understand what John meant by his use of the term, let's consult what he wrote Jesus Christ said on the topic... of spirit, shall we?

In John 3 vs 1 - 8, Jesus Christ explained to Nicodemus that a man has to first become be born-again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God - you have to be born from water and from spirit. In the same context, Jesus Christ explained that when we are born, we only experience a physical birth but to enter into the Kingdom of God, one has to experience a spiritual kind- Ezekiel 36 vs 25 says a new spirit is installed in us at that point.

Back to John's letter then, was John insinuating that those who are not born-again (born from spirit) are born spiritually dead, this ofcourse beginning with Adam himself who was intentionally created so by Almighty God?

Or was John referring to an idea to be compared to Death as defined by God as punishment for unbelief in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22

I thought you said the phrase was made up?

Kobojunkie:
There is no such thing as "Spiritual death". That idea was born of the delusions of men.

TenQ:

I thought you said the phrase was made up?

But it is made up.... Death, as defined by God is punishment for disobedience. John's use of the term spiritually dead, in no way fits God's definition of DEATH.

Kobojunkie:
But it is made up.... Death, as defined by God is punishment for disobedience. John's use of the term spiritually dead, in no way fits God's definition of DEATH.

Eph 2:5:
"that even though we were spiritually dead and doomed by our sins, he gave us back our lives again when he raised Christ from the dead--only by his undeserved favor have we ever been saved--"

Col 2:13:
" You were dead in sins, and your sinful desires were not yet cut away. Then he gave you a share in the very life of Christ, for he forgave all your sins,"

Col 3:1:
" Since you became alive again, so to speak, when Christ arose from the dead, now set your sights on the rich treasures and joys of heaven where he sits beside God in the place of honor and power."

TenQ:

Eph 2:5:
"that even though we were spiritually dead and doomed by our sins, he gave us back our lives again when he raised Christ from the dead--only by his undeserved favor have we ever been saved--"

Col 2:13:
" You were dead in sins, and your sinful desires were not yet cut away. Then he gave you a share in the very life of Christ, for he forgave all your sins,"

Col 3:1:
" Since you became alive again, so to speak, when Christ arose from the dead, now set your sights on the rich treasures and joys of heaven where he sits beside God in the place of honor and power."

The same questions should apply here... To understand what John meant by his use of the term, let's consult what he wrote Jesus Christ said on the topic... of spirit, shall we?

In John 3 vs 1 - 8, Jesus Christ explained to Nicodemus that a man has to first become be born-again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God - you have to be born from water and from spirit. In the same context, Jesus Christ explained that when we are born, we only experience a physical birth but to enter into the Kingdom of God, one has to experience a spiritual kind- Ezekiel 36 vs 25 says a new spirit is installed in us at that point.

Back to John's letter then, was John insinuating that those who are not born-again (born from spirit) are born spiritually dead, this ofcourse beginning with Adam himself who was intentionally created so by Almighty God?

Or was John referring to an idea to be compared to Death as defined by God as punishment for unbelief in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22

---

As before, in reference to Death as defined by God in Genesis 3 vs 19-22, there is no such thing as Spiritual Death , this since there are only two kinds.... Death as defined in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 and Eternal Damnation - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, both of them judgment for unrighteousness.

Kobojunkie:
The same questions should apply here... To understand what John meant by his use of the term, let's consult what he wrote Jesus Christ said on the topic... of spirit, shall we?

In John 3 vs 1 - 8, Jesus Christ explained to Nicodemus that a man has to first become be born-again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God - you have to be born from water and from spirit. In the same context, Jesus Christ explained that when we are born, we only experience a physical birth but to enter into the Kingdom of God, one has to experience a spiritual kind- Ezekiel 36 vs 25 says a new spirit is installed in us at that point.

Back to John's letter then, was John insinuating that those who are not born-again (born from spirit) are born spiritually dead, this of course beginning with Adam himself who was NOT intentionally created so by Almighty God?

Or was John referring to an idea to be compared to Death as defined by God as punishment for unbelief in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22

---

As before, in reference to Death as defined by God in Genesis 3 vs 19-22, there is no such thing as Spiritual Death , this since there are only two kinds.... Death as defined in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 and Eternal Damnation - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, both of them judgment for unrighteousness.

Adam was not created spiritually dead. He became spiritually dead through sin

The highlighted in red is spiritual death. It is what we all inherited from the disobedience of Adam in conjunction with physical death.

In Christ we become spiritually ALIVE.

Spiritual death is NOT a future punishment for sin, we were born spiritually dead because of Adam and Eve.

I do not think that any Christian dispute this!

TenQ:
1. Adam was not created spiritually dead. He became spiritually dead through sin

2. The highlighted in red is spiritual death. It is what we all inherited from the disobedience of Adam in conjunction with physical death.

3. In Christ we become spiritually ALIVE.
Spiritual death is NOT a future punishment for sin, we were born spiritually dead because of Adam and Eve.

4. I do not think that any Christian dispute this!

1. Adam was made of the physical clay of this earth and had no spirit from his birth so he had no spirit to begin with - Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17 - and there is no record of Adam experiencing death before God's judgement of him in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22. So where is it written in scripture that Adam became spiritually dead because of sin?

2. Where is the inheritance of what you call "spiritual death" recorded in scripture? What scripture informs us instead we have is the curse and judgement which God placed on mankind beginning with our progenitors Adam and Eve - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22, which again is Death, the physical kind as defined by God.

3. According to Jesus Christ in John 3 vs 1 - 8, and God in Ezekiel 36 vs 25 - 26, we are Born from spirit meaning a new life is given to us.... something we didn't previously have nor could have died to.
Before one can die to something, one first has to exist or be alive to it, right? Jesus Christ said we never had an existence of the spiritual kind to begin with.

4. Maybe you should try validating those ideas you claim as a Christian against that which is in fact written of in scripture then? You will be shocked to find out lots of them are instead of the doctrines and traditions of men and not of God.

Solofresh2:
So what you are trying to say now is that, anyone that sin will not live anymore in the spirit but anyone in Christ will live forever?

No! My post addressed your question "If the wages of sin is death, then why do this wicked people live long and why do we believe everyone will still die"

There are two conditions at death that we all need to know, that's what the verse means!
If you want me to use the scriptures to expatiate further i'll do but that's just the short answer to your question!
I am Maximus one of Jehovah's Witnesses!

Death is an illusion. She is a deceiver.she will try ..but she will be destroyed.

She us no other than the so called queen of heaven. Who the Christian worship as the mother of Jesus or the Madonna. Her womb is a grave.


Lucifer will surely be destroyed.

Funny enough ....without death, life is useless and meaningless...

Now, what shall we do? Shall we go on sinning because we have no Law to condemn us any more, but are living under grace? Never! Just think what it would mean. You belong to the power which you choose to obey, whether you choose sin, whose reward is death, or God, obedience to whom means the reward of righteousness. Thank God that you, who were at one time the servants of sin, honestly responded to the impact of Christ’s teaching when you came under its influence. Then, released from the service of sin, you entered the service of righteousness. (I use an everyday illustration because human nature grasps truth more readily that way.) In the past you voluntarily gave your bodies to the service of vice and wickedness—for the purpose of becoming wicked. So, now, give yourselves to the service of righteousness—for the purpose of becoming really good. [b]For when you were employed by sin you owed no duty to righteousness. Yet what sort of harvest did you reap from those things that today you blush to remember? In the long run those things mean one thing only—death.

But now that you are employed by God, you owe no duty to sin, and you reap the fruit of being made righteous, while at the end of the road there is life for evermore.

Sin pays its servants: the wage is death. But God gives to those who serve him: his free gift is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Looking at the verses that are immediately related to the verse you seek interpretation to, the meaning is (but not limited to):

1. Sin is a master (employer). It’s salary is death.

2. In earlier verses of Romans, Paul paints this picture: In the righteousness through faith in Christ Jesus, the shepherd (employer) dies for the sheep (servant). Under Sin, the slave dies for the master. No matter how one is committed to Sin, Sin would never die for that one- it only use its employees as slaves (instruments or tools): Meaning that Sin will use them until they are not longer useful to it.

(Sin was brought into “prominence” by the Law. Similarly, in the Law, the sheep dies for the shepherd. In Man-Sin relationship, man always dies and his harvest (gratuity and pension) is condemnation. Under Grace, the shepherd dies for the sheep, and justification and righteousness is the gift (not salary)-under Grace, you ‘don’t do anything to get paid’)

3. Sin will only make anyone under its control evil i.e. the person will be really evil. In the end, the unsaved person doesn’t enjoy life- life here and the life to come- Life just flies by and there is no real joy in the time you spent.

I hope you understand

Solofresh2:
Happy Sunday Nairalanders
Well,am sure we all are aware of the Bible verse that says "the wages of sin is death"
But to my knowledge,I find out that all humans must die and even some wicked people we know still live longer than the ones we call saints
Sometimes, you will see some wicked people live so long till old age before they die and you will also see some kind hearted people dying young.

If the wages of sin is death,then why do this wicked people live long and why do we believe everyone will still die

I think there is more to this Bible verse than we see it

Please any one with good knowledge should explain.Thanks

Lalasticlala please front page

This is simple.
Well that's what the bible says but that's not reality.
As you have rightly observed most sinners even live longer than the righteous.

But if I am try to defend ths bible, I'll say the death being referred to is probably eternal death which is the opposite of eternal life.

Solofresh2:
Happy Sunday Nairalanders
Well,am sure we all are aware of the Bible verse that says "the wages of sin is death"
But to my knowledge,I find out that all humans must die and even some wicked people we know still live longer than the ones we call saints
Sometimes, you will see some wicked people live so long till old age before they die and you will also see some kind hearted people dying young.

If the wages of sin is death,then why do this wicked people live long and why do we believe everyone will still die

I think there is more to this Bible verse than we see it

Please any one with good knowledge should explain.Thanks

Lalasticlala please front page

Special kind of death: there is life after life, and death after death.
Read the Bible more, if you are not a Christian, until you give your life to Jesus, you can't understand the mysteries of the Bible.




However, wages means, one labours to sin and receives the wages of death. Sin is a task you embark upon against God.

Kobojunkie:
1. Adam was made of the physical clay of this earth and had no spirit from his birth so he had no spirit to begin with - Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17 - and there is no record of Adam experiencing death before God's judgement of him in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22. So where is it written in scripture that Adam became spiritually dead because of sin?

Gen 2:7:
"The time came when the Lord God formed a man's body from the dust of the ground and breathed into it the breath of life. And man became a living person."

Job 27:3: "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;"

Job clarified Gen2:7. The breath of God is the spirit of God that gives us life.

Job 32:8: "But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty gives them understanding."

Job went on to say emphatically that their is a SPIRIT IN MAN


Job 34:14: "If he set his heart on man, if he gather to himself his spirit and his breath;"

It seems according to Job that the spirit and breath are together


Prov 20:27: "The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly."

The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord


Eccl 3:21: "Who knows the spirit of man that goes upward, and the spirit of the beast that goes downward to the earth?"

Eccl 12:7: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it."

The spirit is not just breathing.


Eccl 8:8: "There is no man that has power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither has he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it."



Isa 26:9: "With my soul have I desired you in the night; yes, with my spirit within me will I seek you early: for when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness."

Spirit inside a man!?

Ezek 11:19: "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:"

It seems mind and spirit are different



Zech 12:1: "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, said the LORD, which stretches forth the heavens, and lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him."

What then according to these scriptures is the spirit of man. I haven't quoted scriptures where the spirit is used synonymously with mind.

Kobojunkie:

2. Where is the inheritance of what you call "spiritual death" recorded in scripture? What scripture informs us instead we have is the curse and judgement which God placed on mankind beginning with our progenitors Adam and Eve - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22, which again is Death, the physical kind as defined by God.

Here are three whose tenses show you that we WERE dead (Past-tense) but became alive in Christ.

Eph 2:5:
"that even though we were spiritually dead and doomed by our sins, he gave us back our lives again when he raised Christ from the dead--only by his undeserved favor have we ever been saved--"

Col 2:13:
" You were dead in sins, and your sinful desires were not yet cut away. Then he gave you a share in the very life of Christ, for he forgave all your sins,"

Col 3:1:
" Since you became alive again, so to speak, when Christ arose from the dead, now set your sights on the rich treasures and joys of heaven where he sits beside God in the place of honor and power."

Kobojunkie:

Gen 2:7: "The time came when the Lord God formed a man'
3. According to Jesus Christ in John 3 vs 1 - 8, and God in Ezekiel 36 vs 25 - 26, we are Born from spirit meaning a new life is given to us.... something we didn't previously have nor could have died to.
Before one can die to something, one first has to exist or be alive to it, right? Jesus Christ said we never had an existence of the spiritual kind to begin with.

4. Maybe you should try validating those ideas you claim as a Christian against that which is in fact written of in scripture then? You will be shocked to find out lots of them are instead of the doctrines and traditions of men and not of God.

I think you have more scriptures above to validate or invalidate the fact that a man has a spirit within him. This spirit received a new life in Christ.

TenQ:
1.Job clarified Gen2:7. The breath of God is the spirit of God that gives us life. Job went on to say emphatically that their is a SPIRIT IN MAN It seems according to Job that the spirit and breath are together The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord The spirit is not just breathing.

---

Spirit inside a man!?
Ezek 11:19: "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:"
It seems mind and spirit are different
What then according to these scriptures is the spirit of man. I haven't quoted scriptures where the spirit is used synonymously with mind.

Could you try to be more concise cause it is hard to follow whatever it is you are trying to say with all those verses embedded.

1. The same breath of life that was breathed into man in the beginning, was also breathed into animals by God Himself. So whatever attributes you wish to claim of the breath of God(indeed spirit since God is Spirit) you would also need to have apply to animals- Genesis 6 vs 15

2. Isaiah, along with all those anointed or chosen by God in His Old Covenant Law , God bestowed His Spirit on. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Isaiah and all the other prophets, kings, of Old has spirits since God decreed it so in His Law to them.

3. As for what is written in Ezekiel and beyond , the tense as you already submitted indicated a new spirit to be installed in the future.

TenQ:
1. Here are three whose tenses show you that we WERE dead (Past-tense) but became alive in Christ.

I think you have more scriptures above to validate or invalidate the fact that a man has a spirit within him. This spirit received a new life in Christ.

Again, note my earlier response as far as the use of the term "spiritually dead".

The same questions should apply here... To understand what John meant by his use of the term, let's consult what he wrote Jesus Christ said on the topic... of spirit, shall we?

In John 3 vs 1 - 8, Jesus Christ explained to Nicodemus that a man has to first become be born-again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God - you have to be born from water and from spirit. In the same context, Jesus Christ explained that when we are born, we only experience a physical birth but to enter into the Kingdom of God, one has to experience a spiritual kind- Ezekiel 36 vs 25 says a new spirit is installed in us at that point.

Back to John's letter then, was John insinuating that those who are not born-again (born from spirit) are born spiritually dead, this ofcourse beginning with Adam himself who was intentionally created so by Almighty God?

Or was John or Paul referring to an idea to be compared to Death as defined by God as punishment for unbelief in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22

---

As before, in reference to Death as defined by God in Genesis 3 vs 19-22, there is no such thing as Spiritual Death , this since there are only two kinds.... Death as defined in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 and Eternal Damnation - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, both of them judgment for unrighteousness.

---

Jesus Christ referred to some as the dead on more than one occasion and this a reference to Death ,and not an idea they once has spirit which then died - there is no reference to Death of a spiritual kind in scripture.

Kobojunkie:
Again, note my earlier response as far as the use of the term "spiritually dead".

The same questions should apply here... To understand what John meant by his use of the term, let's consult what he wrote Jesus Christ said on the topic... of spirit, shall we?

In John 3 vs 1 - 8, Jesus Christ explained to Nicodemus that a man has to first become be born-again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God - you have to be born from water and from spirit. In the same context, Jesus Christ explained that when we are born, we only experience a physical birth but to enter into the Kingdom of God, one has to experience a spiritual kind- Ezekiel 36 vs 25 says a new spirit is installed in us at that point.

Back to John's letter then, was John insinuating that those who are not born-again (born from spirit) are born spiritually dead, this ofcourse beginning with Adam himself who was intentionally created so by Almighty God?

Or was John or Paul referring to an idea to be compared to Death as defined by God as punishment for unbelief in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22

---

As before, in reference to Death as defined by God in Genesis 3 vs 19-22, there is no such thing as Spiritual Death , this since there are only two kinds.... Death as defined in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 and Eternal Damnation - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, both of them judgment for unrighteousness.

---

Jesus Christ referred to some as the dead on more than one occasion and this a reference to Death ,and not an idea they once has spirit which then died - there is no reference to Death of a spiritual kind in scripture.

Any scriptures to justify that Adam was created spiritually dead?

Kobojunkie:
Could you try to be more concise cause it is hard to follow whatever it is you are trying to say with all those verses embedded.

1. The same breath of life that was breathed into man in the beginning, was also breathed into animals by God Himself. So whatever attributes you wish to claim of the breath of God(indeed spirit since God is Spirit) you would also need to have apply to animals- Genesis 6 vs 15

2. Isaiah, along with all those anointed or chosen by God in His Old Covenant Law , God bestowed His Spirit on. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Isaiah and all the other prophets, kings, of Old has spirits since God decreed it so in His Law to them.

3. As for what is written in Ezekiel and beyond , the tense as you already submitted indicated a new spirit to be installed in the future.

You asked for scriptural justifications and it was given. I assumed you will do justice to the scriptures

TenQ:

You asked for scriptural justifications and it was given. I assumed you will do justice to the scriptures

Here are the questions I asked you....

1. Where is it written in scripture that Adam became spiritually dead because of sin?

2. Where is the inheritance of what you call "spiritual Death" recorded in scripture?

None of the verses you posted answers any of the above.

TenQ:

Any scriptures to justify that Adam was created spiritually dead?

As the referenced passages reveal, Adam was not created with a special spirit assigned him different from the breath of life which animals were also created with.

There is also the fact that Adam missed out on eternal life (Spirit of Life) by his sin against God..

Confusion over the mere words of ancient writers. Confusion everywhere. Poor mankind. Groping in the dark forever. Doomed to seek and never find.

Kobojunkie:
As the referenced passages reveal, Adam was not created with a special spirit assigned him different from the breath of life which animals were also created with.

There is also the fact that Adam missed out on eternal life (Spirit of Life) by his sin against God..

You asked me the same kind of question and I gave you more than enough scriptures.
I am not asking that you repeat your position, I am asking that you justify your position with scriptures

Kobojunkie:
Here are the questions I asked you....

1. Where is it written in scripture that Adam became spiritually dead because of sin?

2. Where is the inheritance of what you call "spiritual Death" recorded in scripture?

None of the verses you posted answers any of the above.

Then no other scripture will be life to you.
It's to easy to rubbish the truth just by NOT explaining your position

ALL THE 10 COMMANDMENTS HAVE SPECIFIC REPERCUSSIONS INHERENT IN THEM

TenQ:

You asked me the same kind of question and I gave you more than enough scriptures.
I am not asking that you repeat your position, I am asking that you justify your position with scriptures

My position is as follows

■ God created man a physical being this from the clay of this earth without a spirit component to man's self, apart from the breath of life(spirit) - Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17 - which God also installed in animals He created - Genesis 6 vs 15

■ When Adam fell, God judged man and condemned mankind to die a Physical Death(dust to dust) - Genesis 3 vs 19-22. There is no reference to Adam experiencing Spiritual Death and so this idea is foreign to scripture. So also is the idea that mankind inherited spiritual Death from Adam.... how could we inherit that which God never decreed? Instead like our ancestor Adam, we experience Death of a Physical kind when out time on earth is over.

■ Jesus Christ restated the fact that the birth we experience when we are born of our mothers is a physical birth - John 3 vs 1 - 8. Like our ancestors before us, we are Born from Clay of this earth and when we die we return to the earth. However, through Jesus Christ, we can receive Salvation from God's Judgment and curse - John 3 vs 16 - 21, redemption from Physical Death, and promotion onto eternal life by being born-again- born from Spirit where a new spirit is installed in us by God - Ezekiel 36 vs 25 -27

TenQ:

Then no other scripture will be life to you.
It's to easy to rubbish the truth just by NOT explaining your position

I made my position know severely in the course of this discussion. Go through my comments to see how I have had to repeat my self several times on this.

Kobojunkie:
I made my position know severely in the course of this discussion. Go through my comments to see how I have had to repeat my self several times on this.

You asked for scriptural justifications, and you were given. Onus is on you to address each scripture and show WHY it cannot mean what I think. A blanked judgement was what you did with a fiat

Kobojunkie:
My position is as follows

■ God created man a physical being this from the clay of this earth without a spirit component to man's self, apart from the breath of life(spirit) - Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17 - which God also installed in animals He created - Genesis 6 vs 15

■ When Adam fell, God judged man and condemned mankind to die a Physical Death(dust to dust) - Genesis 3 vs 19-22. There is no reference to Adam experiencing Spiritual Death and so this idea is foreign to scripture. So also is the idea that mankind inherited spiritual Death from Adam.... how could we inherit that which God never decreed? Instead like our ancestor Adam, we experience Death of a Physical kind when out time on earth is over.

■ Jesus Christ restated the fact that the birth we experience when we are born of our mothers is a physical birth - John 3 vs 1 - 8. Like our ancestors before us, we are Born from Clay of this earth and when we die we return to the earth. However, through Jesus Christ, we can receive Salvation from God's Judgment and curse - John 3 vs 16 - 21, redemption from Physical Death, and promotion onto eternal life by being born-again- born from Spirit where a new spirit is installed in us by God - Ezekiel 36 vs 25 -27

Address the scriptures