lordfalcao:
why will I be ashamed? He had the most passes amongst all mildfield

That’s your criteria. Doesn’t it mean controlling the mildfield more

I told you interpretation of stats is not for low IQ people.

If Jogginghoe is passing ball 57 times and Bissouma is passing 50 times, that brings Chelsea down to the level of Brighton, giving more chances for Bissouma to be running with ball through the heart of Chelsea midfield to allow Brighton 18 shots while Jogginghoe was escorting.

What am I saying sef, when 50% of those Jogginghoe passes will be backward.

If you want to start interpreting stats, increase your IQ. Big club should not be allowing little club even possession. Read the below to learn how to judge passing stats against level of opposition and be blessed.

Ibime:

If you don't know how passing stats work for a controller, let me explain to you

Easy games should be 80-120 passes (Jorginho makes 50-70 under Tuchel)

Midtable games should be 60-90 passes (Jorginho makes 40 to 70 under Tuchel)

Tough games should be 50 to 70 passes (Jorginho makes 30 under Tuchel)

These are the stats of a playmaker. Go and check the records of all the playmakers you mentioned like Rodri, Busquets, Xavi and co.

Oga ibime

Wetin be your characteristics of a very good DM.?

Segedinho:
Oga ibime

Wetin be your characteristics of a very good DM.?

As the spirit leads. Never standing one place.
This is the same person too that used to criticize rodri. That one has put him to shame since.

lordfalcao:
no longer volume of pass but accuracy..

Check Jorginho and hojberg who had more pass accuracy last night

Another low IQ use of stats. Go and check Debruyne pass accuracy.

Before judging pass accuracy, you have to know what kind of player is under consideration.

Is he a "ball no spoil for my hand" type of player like Jorginho (high accuracy)

Is he a risk-taker who tries adventurous passes like DeBruyne (low accuracy)

Or somewhere in-between.

For a ball no spoil for my hand backpasser like Jogginghoe, just know that 79% pass accuracy vs Brighton means my man was bewildered, flummoxed and out of his depth. A 79% for Debruyne meanwhile is just another day at the office.

donjazet:


As the spirit leads. Never standing one place.
This is the same person too that used to criticize rodri. That one has put him to shame since.

Segedinho:
Oga ibime

Wetin be your characteristics of a very good DM.?

My criteria for a good DM has never changed in 10 years.

He should be good on the ball, to receive it from his defence with his back to opponents without losing it, and progress the ball.

He should have pace to support his defenders on counterattacks and give his team confidence to play high up the pitch.

Ibime:


My criteria for a good DM has never changed in 10 years.

He should be good on the ball, to receive it from his defence with his back to opponents without losing it, and progress the ball.

He should have pace to support his defenders on counterattacks and give his team confidence to play high up the pitch.

Does hojberg possesses this??

donjazet:


As the spirit leads. Never standing one place.
This is the same person too that used to criticize rodri. That one has put him to shame since.

You are the spirit leads. Till tomorrow I will prefer a Fernandinho who took his team to 99 points and 98 points with a clapped out Otamendi in defence to a Rodri who can't touch 90 points so far. That's a downgrade. The lost points is in those moments of counterattack where Fernandinho kept up and a Rodri couldn't keep up. To even cut the risk, Pep tweaked his setup and has moved Cancelo into midfield and kept Kyle Walker back as spare man for footrace on counterattacks. Rodri was missing last two weeks, nothing changed. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player on the ball, ten times more trustworthy than Jogginghoe on the ball, but I don't compromise on having some pace in my DM incase the game goes the other way.

Two weeks ago, you were telling us how Jorginho was our playmaker and controller, I told you he is not and even defenders pass more than him. Today you have refined your argument 180 degrees toward the reality. That's spirit leads. Even if you disagree with me, you still learn something.

donjazet:

More so everyone knows that defenders will always have more passes than midfielders.

Again, you see that our counter pressing system doesn't emphasize possession but direct football which is why jorginho might be told not to dwell on the ball but keep it moving. This might be the key difference between jorginho's role and rodri's role despite being similar.

Segedinho:


Does hojberg possesses this??

To a decent level, prove me wrong

Ibime:



To a decent level, prove me wrong

Haven't really watch d hojberg per se..


Who was better bw hojberg vs jog last night judging 4m ur criteria

Ibime:


My criteria for a good DM has never changed in 10 years.

He should be good on the ball, to receive it from his defence with his back to opponents without losing it, and progress the ball.

He should have pace to support his defenders on counterattacks and give his team confidence to play high up the pitch.

Jorginho possesses this very well. Jorginho is hardly ever dispossessed and progresses the ball forward via good passing.

As for your 2nd paragraph, busquet, pirlo, Xabi alonso, rodri, carrick, mascherano. These are all slow DM's, are they all terrible by virtue of their lack of pace?? DM's are rarely defined by their fast pace.
It always depends on their roles for the team according to the teams structure or coaches philosophy.

Jorginho excels in being the anchor of our team when in possession. He also aids in a quick transition from defense to attack. And you can see how he adapts very well.
Jorginho played as a DM for a Napoli team that accrued 86 and 91 points respectively. That's usually more than Enough points to win the league.

Last season he showed how excellent he was at adaptation by actually performing excellently in a 2 man midfield. An ever present when we won all the top coaches in the game from Guardiola, kloop, Simeone, zidane, Mourinho and yesterday conte.

Jorginho was the most CONSISTENT player in the team and has been duly recognized for his role. It's still only your arrogance that will be dwelling on stats irrespective of it's application in your team.

My one single wish is just for us to have central midfielders that score goals from the middle. Someone like a well behaved Pogba.

Horjtout with his whack technicality has regressed TOT badly. I caught that fool ball watching too many times. He lacks positional intelligence which makes opponents fly past TOT midfield with no respect.

No serious club will keep an illiterate thug as a DM. I don't even think his foolishness will allow him play defence.

donjazet:


Jorginho possesses this very well. Jorginho is hardly ever dispossessed and progresses the ball forward via good passing.

Jogginghoe is easily dispossessed and goes hiding when the press is on. He will only show for the ball when there is no one around him, and the minute any pressure is put on, he will pass to goalkeeper or belle-face whence it came. Even many of his fans will admit he fails under the press. Big difference to Rodri or Busquet who can ride a player on their back and spin out. Jorginho goes hiding when the heat is on instead. I almost agree with popizaino when he said if Fred just focus on passing the ball back to where it came, he can replicate Jorginho. Jorginho does not have the skill required for a ball keeper. He is just an expert in moving around into pockets of space to receive ball without anyone around him and give it back to the closest man. When Spain put Pedri on him in the Euro semifinal, Jorgginghoe made 30 passes in 120 minutes of play

Ibime:


You are the spirit leads. Till tomorrow I will prefer a Fernandinho who took his team to 99 points and 98 points with a clapped out Otamendi in defence to a Rodri who can't touch 90 points so far. That's a downgrade. The lost points is in those moments of counterattack where Fernandinho kept up and a Rodri couldn't keep up. To even cut the risk, Pep tweaked his setup and has moved Cancelo into midfield and kept Kyle Walker back as spare man for footrace on counterattacks. Rodri was missing last two weeks, nothing changed. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player on the ball, ten times more trustworthy than Jogginghoe on the ball, but I don't compromise on having some pace in my DM incase the game goes the other way.

I swore I wouldn't argue this jorginho issue with you again.

I am simply contented with the fact that far more people on this thread and our fan base are happy with jorginho in our team.

Funny that you were telling lordfalcao that he was an ignorant part of the fan base when in essence. What we have are the ibime's of the fan base.
A small group of fans, an absolute minority who never appreciates their best players and always sulk and rant seeing their best players play irrespective of how good the player has performed.

Ibime:


Jogginghoe is easily dispossessed and goes hiding when the press is on. He will only show for the ball when there is no one around him, and the minute any pressure is put on, he will pass to goalkeeper or belle-face whence it came. Even many of his fans will admit he fails under the press. Big difference to Rodri or Busquet who can ride a player on their back and spin out. Jorginho goes hiding when the heat is on instead. I almost agree with popizaino when he said if Fred just focus on passing the ball back to where it came, he can replicate Jorginho. Jorginho does not have the skill required for a ball keeper. He is just an expert in moving around into pockets of space to receive ball without anyone around him and give it back to the closest man. When Spain put Rodri on him in the Euro semifinal, Jorgginghoe made 30 passes in 120 minutes of play

These are simply your own words.
Because you hate this player, you have let the few times you saw the described scenario happen make you believe that is the only essence of the player.

Myself and the larger Chelsea fan base and other top coaches believe that jorginho is an excellent midfielder that is rarely dispossessed and holds his own very well.

Jorginho does superbly under pressure 8\10 of the times.

If he wasn't doing this effectively or was error prone as you claim. All his coaches would bench him. He's not even stayed that long in the club.
He would be benched if he wasn't trusted to Carry out his role.

But here you have a situation where his coaches are obsessed with him. Sarri made sure he brought him with him and still wished for him till today. Guardiola saw him as essential to his team. Mancini of Italy does too.

Now Tuchel also does. Thrusting him in the middle for 95% of his games as a Chelsea manager.
Just what makes this jorginho indispensable, I don't know.

Segedinho:

Haven't really watch d hojberg per se..

I will give you one stat to buttress my first criteria.

For the second criteria, you can check with your eye if he's fast enough.

This is top volume passers in EPL last season.

There are weak men who cannot see anything technical in a hardworking player. Those are the ones on this thread who fantasize about being plugged in the back. Once a player is strong and energetic, they will call him a tout and be completely myopic to his technical side. It's a disease in modern football fans, usually the ones that got their first football experience following Barcelona. In many years, I've been saying that Kante has one of the slickest half-turn in football. Those who only play to stereotypes (Weak players = technical, Strong players = dumb) only saw Kante as a destroyer. You can see the same effeminate men today calling Hojberg tout when he is consistently competing with Rodri at the top of the passing charts. Some of us have forgotten more about midfield work than some of these ninnies ever learned.

Segedinho:

Haven't really watch d hojberg per se..


Who was better bw hojberg vs jog last night judging 4m ur criteria

Jorginho and horjtout have gone head to head 4 times since last season and horjtout has never come out winning the midfield encounter. We've always dominated them possession wise. won 3 and drew 1. That is who Ibime thinks is better. We don't know the value of what we have until it's gone.
We have the European best player with us and a minority part of the club keeps grumbling and ranting.

Ibime:


I will give you one stat to buttress my first criteria.

For the second criteria, you can check with your eye if he's fast enough.

This is top volume passers in EPL last season.

There are weak men who cannot see anything technical in a hardworking player. Those are the ones on this thread who fantasize about being plugged in the back. Once a player is strong and energetic, they will call him a tout and be completely myopic to his technical side. It's a disease in modern football fans, usually the ones that got their first football experience following Barcelona. In many years, I've been saying that Kante has one of the slickest half-turn in football. Those who only play to stereotypes (Weak players = technical, Strong players = dumb) only saw Kante as a destroyer. You can see the same effeminate men today calling Hojberg tout when he is consistently competing with Rodri at the top of the passing charts. Some of us have forgotten more about midfield work than some of these ninnies ever learned.

Is hojberg better than Declan rice

Isn't it funny that the man that top the stats Ibime keeps pulling out is the same one he has been rubbishing all these while.
Ibime has always derided rodri but now that rodri is excelling for Guardiola the exact same way jorginho would also excel for Guardiola, he can't stop posting rodri's stat.

Ibime:

So he has taken Man City backwards from Fernandinho who preceded him? Effect of replacing a solid DM with an escort like rodri.

Ibime:


No Sir. I want Bayern in next round because I trust Flick to deal with your Fraudiola. I don't trust PSG to handle City. Although the thought of Rodri chasing after Mbappe does tickle my funny bone, I think City will penetrate their midfield and defence more.

Ibime:

Don't contradict yourself. Rodri is an escort to be attacked.

We know that jorginho is an excellent passer of the ball. He did this perfectly under Sarri at Napoli and even when Sarri wanted to implement his philosophy with us here.

I remember jorginho even shortly setting a record for number of passes in a match then.

Now he's game has evolved According to his managers system and instead of us to acknowledge this, this small powerless minority of the fan base keep barrelling the loudest.

donjazet:


These are simply your own words.
Because you hate this player, you have let the few times you saw the described scenario happen make you believe that is the only essence of the player.

Myself and the larger Chelsea fan base and other top coaches believe that jorginho is an excellent midfielder that is rarely dispossessed and holds his own very well.

Jorginho does superbly under pressure 8\10 of the times.

If he wasn't doing this effectively or was error prone as you claim. All his coaches would bench him. He's not even stayed that long in the club.
He would be benched if he wasn't trusted to Carry out his role.

Go and check West Brom, Arsenal, Villa game in last month of last season.

A not easily dispossessed player who cost goals or dangerous situations frequently.

Last game against Brighton he dashed them ball in his 20 min cameo appearance and Rudiger saved him

Do you know how to spot when a midfielder is hiding on the pitch? I doubt it, from the way you've been giving us Sarri era analysis. Those who know what a midfielder should be doing know exactly when Jogginghoe is hiding. There will be at least 15 games a season when he does that, that's why we told you he can't win you league. You only see the ball in the easier games Jorginho feels comfortable to make the angle for the pass. Those who watch midfield intensely will tell you how uncomfortable he is with players on him and how he hides to avoid it.

When I noticed a flaw in Bakayokos technique that guaranteed he would be unsafe if given the ball in deeper areas, I warned not to sign him, that that flaw makes him hide in the midfield. There are things we look for, angles we expect a midfielder to make, balls we expect him to call for. Positions we expect him to remove himself from such as standing behind opposition players when his teammates have the ball so they can't locate him. Jogginghoe does that a lot in hot games. That's why he played 120 mins against Spain and spent his time hiding, dropping 30 passes in 120 minutes. See the way Horjtout kept showing for the ball yesterday even under immense pressure, Jogginghoe can never have the balls to do that in the same situation. Man who will play 120 mins and drop 30 passes. Even Veratti who left pitch 50 mins before him matched him, and was wondering why this guy is not showing for ball.

Always quick to post passing record as if it's not the jorginho that was regarded as a pass master..
Let's see his new excuse.

donjazet:
Isn't it funny that the man that top the stats Ibime keeps pulling out is the same one he has been rubbishing all these while.
Ibime has always derided rodri but now that rodri is excelling for Guardiola the exact same way jorginho would also excel for Guardiola, he can't stop posting rodri's stat.

I am responsible for what I type, not your ignorant interpretation. My criticism of Rodri has always been about his inability to deal with the counterattack, same with Busquet. Even a dog knows Rodri is a high possession player who will top passing stats. I did not know one would be discussing football here, not knowing canopy people are interpreting it out of the abundance of their ignorance.

I bet Hojberg position in the passing charts shock you sha. I don't rate touts. Technical must be there, same as physical.

Ibime:



I am responsible for what I type, not your ignorant interpretation. My criticism of Rodri has always been about his inability to deal with the counterattack, same with Busquet. Even a dog knows Rodri is a high possession player who will top passing stats. I did not know one would be discussing football here, not knowing canopy people are interpreting it out of the abundance of their ignorance.

I bet Hojberg position in the passing charts shock you sha. I don't rate touts. Technical must be there, same as physical.

Is rodri important to Guardiola or not. No need for the long talk. I've told you that every single player on this planet has various weaknesses, it's about being able to use your strengths better to overshadow the weaknesses and your other teammates complementing you.

You've called rodri an "escort". Is it not that same escort that is a mainstay of a powerful Guardiola team? Is rodri not an essential piece of Guardiola team? Why do you think Guardiola cherished jorginho sooo badly?

If guardiola had his way, jorginho would be manning his midfield today to perfect execution.

donjazet:
Always quick to post passing record as if it's not the jorginho that was regarded as a pass master..

Passing stats is not taken in isolation.

Bear in mind my two criteria - passing plus pace.

Me posting passing stats is to disabuse your mind of Hojberg as a rugged tout, and disabuse your mind of Jorginho fulfilling a passing function under Tuchel which you wrongly assumed.

So long as Hojberg has pace and the physical aspect of the game, his passing stats is only shown to burgeon him as a compete midfielder, unlike those with passing stats that get bullied when game becomes fast or physical.

When we gave Jorginho carte-blanche to control our passing game under Sarri, we noticed a terrible flaw that he is Xavi against teams who sit back but turns to Bakayoko against teams that press him. We started getting our face rubbed on ground in 4-0 and 6-0 scorelines with his passing disappearing under the slightest press, that's why it meant little to us.

Ibime:


Passing stats is not taken in isolation.

Bear in mind my two criteria - passing plus pace.

Me posting passing stats is to disabuse your mind of Hojberg as a rugged tout, and disabuse your mind of Jorginho fulfilling a passing function under Tuchel which you wrongly assumed.

When we gave Jorginho carte-blanche to control our passing game under Sarri, we noticed a terrible flaw that he is Xavi against teams who sit back but turns to Bakayoko against teams that press him. We started getting our face rubbed on ground in 4-0 and 6-0 scorelines with his passing disappearing under the slightest press, that's why it meant little to us.

Someone uploaded d myriad of insults on hojberg after his display last night..
.

You were quick to lebel dem idiots.


But we should take same online insults on joginho from same internet just because u uploaded it abi.


You never respond to d wholescore rating bw Rice and hojberg

donjazet:


Of course a superfan of a weakling like havertz would think that horjtout is better than Jorginho.

donjazet:


Is rodri important to Guardiola or not. No need for the long talk. I've told you that every single player on this planet has various weaknesses, it's about being able to use your strengths better to overshadow the weaknesses and your other teammates complementing you.

You've called rodri an "escort". Is it not that same escort that is a mainstay of a powerful Guardiola team? Is rodri not an essential piece of Guardiola team? Why do you think Guardiola cherished jorginho sooo badly?

If guardiola had his way, jorginho would be manning his midfield today to perfect execution.

If you bring Busquet to Man City now, he will no longer be an escort but a mainstay of the Pep team. Even a Cole Palmer or another youth player will be hailed.

An escort is simply someone who can't keep up with counterattacks.

Not everyone can be lucky to play for Pep. I judge players on their attributes, not because they play for Pep.

Before Rodri, Man City was on 99, 98 points back to back. After Rodri, they lost the league title, and couldn't 90 points. That's a downgrade.

The team made the man, the man didn't make the team. He even took them backward. You just felate any player in Pep team as Worlds best. If Bakayoko go there, they will still win and you will still hail him. Afterall Pep was the first manager in England to show interest in Bakayoko. Some of us watch football for what it is, you watch it for the celebrity of who Pep picks. Rodri is a downgrade, simple.

Segedinho:

Someone uploaded d myriad of insults on hojberg after his display last night..
.

You were quick to lebel dem idiots.


But we should take same online insults on joginho from same internet just because u uploaded it abi.


You never respond to d wholescore rating bw Rice and hojberg

It had no substance. It did not have a single stat I use to judge midfielders.

Segedinho:

Someone uploaded d myriad of insults on hojberg after his display last night..
You were quick to lebel dem idiots.
But we should take same online insults on joginho from same internet just because u uploaded it abi.
You never respond to d wholescore rating bw Rice and hojberg

It's as if you don't know Ibime again.

Tottenham fans were roasting their own player after they surrendered their midfield, he said they are ignorant fools. But when the ibime's of our own fan base criticize jorginho, they are the exposed ones??
Some jokes do indeed write themselves.

Ibime:


If you bring Busquet to Man City now, he will no longer be an escort but a mainstay of the Pep team. Even a Cole Palmer or another youth player will be hailed.
An escort is simply someone who can't keep up with counterattacks.
Not everyone can play for Pep.

Before Rodri, Man City was on 99, 98 points back to back. After Rodri, they lost the league title, and couldn't 90 points. That's a downgrade.

The team made the man, the man didn't make the team. He even took them backward. You just felate any player in Pep team as Worlds best. If Bakayoko go there, they will still win and you will still hail him. Afterall Pep was the first manager in England to show interest in Bakayoko. Some of us watch football for what it is, you watch it for the celebrity of who Pep annoint. Rodri is a downgrade, simple.

So since Xabi alonso, mascherano, pirlo, busquet,carrick were all slow, they were useless escorts right?? Irrespective of their other contributions to their team?

Reminds me of this meme. jumping from pillar to post.