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Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? / Is Matter And Energy Eternal? / Who Frees You When Your Heart And Mind Is Full Of This??? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 4:53pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: Gosh, seems your amnesia is acting up again. You categorically said shadow doesn't exist so how am I strawmanning you? How can shadow not exist but still be the surface? This is what you have failed to explain. You may have nothing further to say but let it be on record that you contradicted yourself by claiming that shadow doesn't exist but is also the surface on which it appears. What an absurdity. |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 5:09pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: The absurdities are all yours brother. I will list them before we are done. For the avoidance of doubt I said what you are seeing is a surface. And that is a fact. If you have a cassette tape and some part of it has no recording and the rest has a recording you cannot then say that the part without a recording is a separate Inmaterial thing. Likewise if you have a wall and some part is blocked off from light that doesn't make it a separate immaterial thing. That is what is absurd. As usual you have ignored my several explanations and examples. Even on Morse code which you brought up. I am content with what I have explained. It will be there for posterity. Maybe one day in the future you might even read it with better understanding. 1 Like |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 5:25pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: Nope, all yours since you kept making inferences that were not my position then insisting they were. Even budaatum got confused thinking you had accurately stated my position not knowing you created a bunch of strawmen for your own pummelling pleasure then started to insisting you had me dead to rights and even now you claim shadow doesn't exist and simultaneously claim it is the surface on which appears. It's a pattern with you and I think it raises from your overthinking of simple concepts and the need to make them more perplexing than they are. But let's see how you do with your spirit definition, hopefully it's not another stark contradiction. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 6:20pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: What you don't even grasp is that you shot yourself in the foot with this argument when you apply it to images on a screen especially projection screens. If a shadow is non-existent and is merely a surface then what is image on a screen if not the shadows with colour gradients? So how can you then claim the image is made up materials but say a shadow is non-existent? LoLz, you should really reevaluate your position since it has no real world consistency. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 6:43pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: This is a mischaracterization of what I have said. I didnt say the image you see on a screen is non-existent, I said it is not immaterial. Regrettably I feel there is no point repeating myself ad infinitum ad nauseum. I am content with my explanations and happy to leave them as they are for posterity. I addressed every example or analogy you brought up, but there are several I brought up you simply walked past without a word on. I have nothing more to add on this point. I equally feel you have not grasped anything on this point, and have serially contradicted yourself, have put forward amazing absurdities, but there is nothing more to be said because we have said it all. 1 Like |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 6:50pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: Did you even read what I wrote? LordReed: |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 6:51pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: Yes I did sir, and I have nothing more to add. It appears to me you have not read anything I have written. It can rest there. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 7:16pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: I don't think you did or you won't have written I said you said image on a screen doesn't exist since that is exactly the opposite of what I actually wrote. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 7:17pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: This misunderstanding cant be helped. Its better left where it is. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 7:30pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: What you and I wrote is not erased. You can go back and point out where I made a mistake. |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 7:37pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
Ok give me small time. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 8:08pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: Yes, my Lord, computer software is physical "material", as are these physical words physical me is generating with my physical hands and mind using a physical computer, and which you will read after I am done generating them. The message that the physical words convey itself is not physical however, but more of a non-physical message. When you read these physical words, they are transformed back from their mere physical nature by your mind into the non-physical message that I am using the physical words to convey. I am reluctant at this moment to give a name to the "non-physical message". And I've quoted Deepsight below because he is pretty close. DeepSight: |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 8:13pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: Hair splitting, my Lord. If the image on the screen is not material how the heck are you seeing it? With you spirit eyes, perhaps? |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 8:23pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: No, the song doesn't remain completely immaterial. Deepsight. The singing of the "informative codes" of the song transforms them into physical material that my ears perceive. I'd even argue that the "informative codes" of the song are material in their own right. You'd note that physical codes need storing in a physical container for starts, and "informative codes" are very song specific. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 8:34pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: Interesting. But vibrations are actually not what causes the phenomenon of sound (of music). The maker of the specific music arranged vibrations in a specific way so that that specific song is what you hear when you hear the vibrations arranged in the specific order of that specific song. And the order of the specific vibrations of a specific song are material, even when you are singing it inside your head. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 8:51pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: I blame you, my Lord. You've been here long enough to know definitions are very important since words mean whatever the user understands them to mean which may not be what you understand them to mean. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 8:59pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: Sorry Deep, but shadows are a thing. And you can simply block light from a surface and then call it a thing. When I build a house I block off a part to form a shadow so I can sit in comfort in the evening. And when I plant things around my house I ensure the things I want to grow are in or not in shadow according to their need for light. The argument could be whether it is material or not, but a definition of material would first be needed in order to determine. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 9:08pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum: The image you are seeing is a shadow if you will because it is produced by selectively inhibiting light so you not looking at an actual material that has taken the shape of an image. Lemme attempt to contrast this with a physical book . With a physical book you are looking at actual ink on actual paper which you see because light is reflecting off the physical paper into your eyes, with a screen you are looking at a shadow projected through a substrate, the image you are seeing is a virtual image not the reflection of light off of a physical image. In both cases you are seeing because of light but in one case you are seeing a physical image while in the other you are seeing a virtual image. I don't know how anyone can argue that a virtual image is made of material, that would be bizarre to say the least. |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 9:10pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum: You cannot call an absence a thing. That is analogous to calling the absence of either light or sound a thing. If you do so, once you go into your room at night, if you switch off the lights, then the ensuing darkness is a thing. It is an absence of light - which is a thing. Light is a thing. The absence of light is not a thing. But I have said enough on this matter. I am tired of it for now. Maybe I will have the inspiration to revisit it some other time. You simply cannot describe an absence of something as a separate thing in itself. An absence is not a thing. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 9:13pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum: I think you are conflating your physical acts with the words on your device screen. The words on your device screen are virtual they are not made of material. They are a projection. Will you call the image in a cinema hall screen a physical image? It's not. If you think it is, what is it made of? Similar question to what is a shadow made of. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 9:13pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: I'd say a specific shadow is a number "with reference to representation of quantities, volumes, sizes, etc". While shadow in general is like number 7. One can qualify and quantify a specific shadow, which does make it a thing. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 9:27pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: There is no difference between a "physical image" and a "virtual image" in the specific case of books. I can post you a piece of paper with ink for words, but it will just take a bit longer. Or would you argue that what you just read is not material that I physically created in the comfort of my home and virtually transmitted to you to read? As for shadow, I know its physically there when it protects me from the sun and my sweating reduces. We can of course argue that the heat is blocked by the building forming the shadow, but that simply would mean the building formed a physical thing which I am benefiting from. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 9:36pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum: The difference is in what they are made of. The virtual book or words are immaterial, they aren't made of substance unlike the book which is made of paper. Similarly, a shadow is not made of substance. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 9:36pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: Yes I can call an absence, a thing. An absence of a thing can be a thing in many cases, and in fact, the specific word called not-thing has been formed so I can. I can claim that the removal of a thing called light has left a thing (or a not-thing) called darkness. Also, an absence of money could be a thing called poverty, and a lack of food to eat can cause a thing called hunger, etc. Its all in use of language. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 9:45pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: You are conflating physical things with whatever might be its opposite. The words you are reading are physical things made by me ordering the letters in a specific order to convey a very specific message, which I will have converted into a virtual image so you can receive and read it. The virtual part is just to overcome the distance between us. If I called you and read it out to you instead you will not claim the voice of buda reading to you is virtual. Same with the image on a cinema hall screen. I only see it because the screen, and the specific image, are physically there in front of me in the physical cinema hall. |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 9:47pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum: Going by this then nothing is a thing. A perfect self- negating statement. You simply can't describe an absence as a thing otherwise you are surrounded by the absence of all things which exist which are not in your presence. It's truly absurd, but enjoy. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 9:52pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: My Lord, you can not claim a virtual book is not made up of substance just because its not made up of physical paper and physical ink! Paper and ink has simply been evolved in the case of the virtual book and has become virtual ink and virtual paper. And a shadow is specifically made of physical substance! That building forming a shadow by blocking the sun is a physical substance! Remove the physical building and it will stop forming that specific shadow. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 9:53pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum: Ok then what is the image made of? Tell me what shadow is made of as well. |
Re: Matter And Mind by LordReed(m): 9:55pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum:Viirtual ink and virtual paper are not material. If you think they are then what are they made of? I didn't ask for what is making the shadow, I asked what the shadow itself is made of. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 9:59pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
DeepSight: You make it sound like "truly absurd" is a negative thing. Indeed, one is "surrounded by the absence of all things which exist which are not in your presence". It's actually a state of being to be "surrounded by the absence of all things which exist which are not in your presence", and is the basis of human existence called want, and desire, and so on. I am surrounded by poverty which is the absence of a thing which exists which is not in my presence, and when I am hungry its because I am surrounded by food that might exist but not in the proximity to my mouth and my belly. |
Re: Matter And Mind by DeepSight(m): 10:03pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
budaatum: In that case, take good care of my absence, a real thing which is right beside you. Good night. |
Re: Matter And Mind by budaatum: 10:07pm On Jan 18, 2022 |
LordReed: Electricity, light, sand, silicon, etc, my Lord. Everything required to make the device I type the physical words on and which work together to transmit them to you. LordReed:Do they really differ? The building makes the shadow by blocking some light from where the shadow is. The shadow is made of light, or specifically by the reduction of light in the shadow area. |
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