DeepSight:
1. None of this explains the animal sacrifices of the old testament and ...

DeepSight:
2. The concept of an innocent party paying with his life for the sins of guilty parties hardly seems just.

DeepSight:
Balancing the scales of justice requires appropriate reciprocal consequences to those persons who deserve them. The idea that anyone can step in and "buy-out" the punishment is a commercial concept which should be alien to true justice, especially justice of a divine nature. Not only is this "buy-out" concept mercantile in nature, it is also intrinsically pagan and thus as far away from the purity of divine justice as can be imagined.

This is aside from the fact that the said sacrifice of Christ is questionable as a sacrifice. Because to lay down a life that you know for sure you are picking up again three days later is a much better deal than any other mortal has.

DeepSight:
Please stop punctuating your write-ups with "lol" after every few words, if you mean to be taken seriously ...

DeepSight:
... Now, note that nothing you have said has justified the blood-lust of Yahweh. Why exactly is genuine repentance insufficient, why must blood-letting do the job of forgiveness?

DeepSight:
How exactly does that make sense if Yahweh is not a pagan barbarian?

DeepSight:


1. None of this explains the animal sacrifices of the old testament and
2. The concept of an innocent party paying with his life for the sins of guilty parties hardly seems just.

Balancing the scales of justice requires appropriate reciprocal consequences to those persons who deserve them. The idea that anyone can step in and "buy-out" the punishment is a commercial concept which should be alien to true justice, especially justice of a divine nature. Not only is this "buy-out" concept mercantile in nature, it is also intrinsically pagan and thus as far away from the purity of divine justice as can be imagined.

This is aside from the fact that the said sacrifice of Christ is questionable as a sacrifice. Because to lay down a life that you know for sure you are picking up again three days later is a much better deal than any other mortal has.

Steep:
What I think is that the animal sacrifice represented the sacrifice of Jesus, they were temporary till the real sacrifice.

DeepSight:
But how exactly does that work?
How does something like that stand in the gap for the supposed real thing? Is it that papa-God sha must see blood before him go hear pesin, abi wetin, break it down.

And secondly this still does not answer why that "real sacrifice" is so necessary in the first place. Why is genuine repentance from sins insufficient?

TenQ:
... NOTE:
This is God's own SOLUTION for the PROBLEM of SIN in Man.

To the New Testament:

Heb 9:12:
"Neither by the blood of goats and calves,
but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

Heb 10:4:
"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."

The Blood of Animals is an antitype pointing to the time when the LAMB of God will once and for all take away the sins of the world.
John 1:29:
"The next day John sees Jesus coming to him, and said,
Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world."

Jesus Himself explained it like this:
Only those who accept God's solution and prescription for the problem of sin gets SAVED.

John 3:14-15:
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Conclusion:
Why does God require Blood/Life as sacrifice for SIN?
Because sin MUST be punished (no escape for that)!

DeepSight:


But how exactly does that work? How does something like that stand in the gap for the supposed real thing? Is it that papa-God sha must see blood before him go hear pesin, abi wetin, break it down.

And secondly this still does not answer why that "real sacrifice" is so necessary in the first place. Why is genuine repentance from sins insufficient?

DeepSight

NNTR:
Nothing to explain other than what's already said that the animal sacrifices of the Old Testament, is a precursor, is a shadow of the genuine article

I am going to cut to the chase with you.

Is it, just, that you replace the normal.dot file in your Microsoft Word application, when the existing one in the application, is corrupt?

I said that, because Jesus, God Incarnate, meaning, God personified in human body flesh, meaning God come down to earth,

meaning Jesus, the visible image of the invisible God while being lead to His death, was spat on. He was blindfolded, then repeatedly slapped, had missiles thrown at and struck on the head with all manners of blunt object. People along the street leading to Calvary, pulled out the hairs of His beard, as in, yanked out or ripped out His beard from His face, as He walked by, carrying His cross.

Bible narratives, further, even said, Jesus was not just ordinarily beaten but that He was extraordinarily and gruesomely beaten up. He was that so beaten up beyond recognition, such that those that looked at Him in this state, recoiled back, horrified with shock at His appearance, because He was so disfigured that He didnt at all resemble a human being anymore, as in, He hardly at all, looked like a human being after the grievous bodily harm assault (GBH) on Him. He was fugly, literally was completely panel beaten up beyond ever being recognised to be a human being.

NNTR:
I am not going to peacefully and soundly sleep any less, if not taking seriously.

Now, my dear friend, brother and blood, loll, fyi, I dont punctuate using 'lol', what I use, is 'loll', and it is used consciously and intentionally.

Strange that, I would never dream of requesting that you censor your posts, I would never dream of asking you to suppress your reactions to posts. As a further matter, I find it extremely amusing you being riled by my punctuating with 'loll' especially when laughter is a strong medicine, in fact, its a tonic for health. Laughter, fyi, asides, decreasing stress hormones, it increases immune cells and infection-fighting antibodies, and thus improves our resistance to disease, even a good laugh does one a world of good exercising the heart’s muscles, so that's some of the reasons behind why you see me, not miss a chance to 'laugh out loud literally'

DeepSight:


What is the use of shadows and precursors ? ? ?
Desist from such meaningless pursuits with us, lest we take you for either a nincompoop or a clown.



What sort of preposterous analogy is this?
You had better sit up, lest we begin to upbraid and sanction you in a properly harsh manner.



This is blasphemy.
Be warned, and take frightful notice, lest your name is recommended for the Lake of Fire on this account.



While truly sad, this sort of horrifying experience is by no means limited to Jesus alone. In fact, many have undergone similar or worse.
Straighten up your back now as a man, and eschew sentimental thinking: lest we take you to the barracks for a flogging.

NNTR:
I am not going to peacefully and soundly sleep any less, if not taking seriously.

Now, my dear friend, brother and blood, loll, fyi, I dont punctuate using 'lol', what I use, is 'loll', and it is used consciously and intentionally.

Strange that, I would never dream of requesting that you censor your posts, I would never dream of asking you to suppress your reactions to posts. As a further matter, I find it extremely amusing you being riled by my punctuating with 'loll' especially when laughter is a strong medicine, in fact, its a tonic for health. Laughter, fyi, asides, decreasing stress hormones, it increases immune cells and infection-fighting antibodies, and thus improves our resistance to disease, even a good laugh does one a world of good exercising the heart’s muscles, so that's some of the reasons behind why you see me, not miss a chance to 'laugh out loud literally'

You should try loll too, so to reap the benefits of loll. Lighten up, just enjoy life more, with a smile more, laugh more, and don't get so rile up by it, loll.

If tbh, some of your comments too, makes me resignedly smh loll, even this your Lie Mohammed role playing stunt, just takes the biscuit, loll.

Hebrews 9:22-28
22In fact under the Law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness [neither release from sin and its guilt, nor cancellation of the merited punishment].
23Therefore it was necessary for the [earthly] copies of the heavenly things to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves required far better sacrifices than these.
24For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but [He entered] into heaven itself, now to appear in the very presence of God on our behalf;
25nor did He [enter into the heavenly sanctuary to] offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.
26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer over and over since the foundation of the world; but now once for all at the consummation of the ages He has appeared and been publicly manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once and after this [comes certain] judgment,
28so Christ, having been offered once and once for all to bear [as a burden] the sins of many, will appear a second time [when he returns to earth], not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly and confidently waiting for Him.
If you know anything about the implication of bad blood, you wouldnt have made this your 'Why exactly is genuine repentance insufficient, why must blood-letting do the job of forgiveness?' gaffe comment

What you, are, is in your DNA, is in your blood. Your blood has memory, that your DNA, yeah, it, comes from blood, loll. Your blood!

Name me one perfect human being and without any sin whatsoever, dead or alive, that you've met, you've come across, you've read about, you know, you've known or you've heard about, loll?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

DeepSight:
Take caution lest we begin to mete out discipline to you.

DeepSight:
What is the use of shadows and precursors ? ? ?

DeepSight:
Desist from such meaningless pursuits with us, lest we take you for either a nincompoop or a clown.

DeepSight:
What sort of preposterous analogy is this?
You had better sit up, lest we begin to upbraid and sanction you in a properly harsh manner.

DeepSight:
This is blasphemy.
Be warned, and take frightful notice, lest your name is recommended for the Lake of Fire on this account.

DeepSight:
While truly sad, this sort of horrifying experience is by no means limited to Jesus alone. In fact, many have undergone similar or worse.

DeepSight:
Straighten up your back now as a man, and eschew sentimental thinking:
lest we take you to the barracks for a flogging.

killyaselfie:
You are one step away from calling him jackass.

killyaselfie:


You are one step away from calling him jackass.

NNTR:

---

---

---

I love discipline, loll

Shadows and/or precursors are used to sensitize others to some real that's coming

If being a nincompoop is what it takes or even being a clown, is what's required, I shall be become, that, I shall become, loll.

Blasphemy, is a word, we use often for a topic and/or subject matter, which is not yet understood and even which we havent yet grasped

Name me one perfect human being and without any sin whatsoever, dead or alive, that you've met, you've come across, you've read about, you know, you've known or you've heard about, loll?

DeepSight:


O most lamentable and infernal goblin: thou neither hast the spirit of genial camaraderie nor recognizeth playful good humour, when it is afoot. Read again, and surely thou shouldest recognize it at once.

Now quicken thy wits, lest we bring a rod to thy back, as it is written:
A whip for the horse, a bridle for the donkey and a rod for the back of the fool - Proverbs 26:3

killyaselfie:


Sure. I’m sure NNTR also took it as a joke. Must be like the immaterial pixies only you understand.

DeepSight:

1. On what basis is it confidently asserted that Jesus was without sin? ? ?
2. So what if he was without sin. How does that answer the question. Oho, so your Yahweh is blood thirsty for pure sacrifices, is that what you are saying?

PastorAIO:


John7
6Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here. 7The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil. 8You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” 9After saying this, he remained in Galilee.

10But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up , not publicly but in private.

Are telling untruths righteous now? I suppose so.

DeepSight:
OK Jamesid29,
[b]Away from all the technicality of language and wayizbahs and Josiahs and Jephtahs and what not.
[/b]What is your own take on the concept of a transcendental omnipotent God requiring any kind of propitiatory sacrifice for sins - be it the animal sacrifices of the Old Testament or the alleged sacrifice of Christ of the New Testament.

jamesid29:

hmm.... it's alright sir
Enjoy the rest of your week

jamesid29:


LoL... I hope you know that Abraham's Modern Yoruba dictionary is available on online libraries, right...

It is well sir

jamesid29:

Part of my job heavily depends on research..

In any case, I borrowed it and it clearly shows that apart from both words not even sharing the same sound, they don't share the same root or etymology.

Added the other one's that share the same sound but not the same root or meanings for further clarity.

Anyway, it's fine.

jamesid29:

Just look at the dictionary. I believe you should know how it's structured since you also own it.

As for the sound, that has to do with the ami.. BỌ́ is a different ami ohun from BỌ

Etymology[edit]
In Yoruba language, Ìyá mi literally means "my mother".[1] In Yoruba cosmology, the mother's roles as the force of creation and the sustainer of life and existence elevates her to the realm of the divine. Consequently, Ìyá mi - with alterations in tones - becomes Ìyààmi or Ìyàmi,[2] which can be translated as "the super-powerful ones"[3] or "My Mysterious Mother."[4][5] Àjẹ́ is a Yoruba word that signifies the biological and spiritual power of African women that has myriad potential, including but not limited to, powers of elemental, biological and artistic creation

jamesid29:

Part of my job heavily depends on research..

In any case, I borrowed it and it clearly shows that apart from both words not even sharing the same sound, they don't share the same root or etymology.

Added the other one's that share the same sound but not the same root or meanings for further clarity.

Anyway, it's fine.

PastorAIO:


I have not failed to notice the tendency to resort to some technicality here or there that has nowt to do with the main thrust of an issue.

The most salient and key arguments are ignored when 'they' have no answer, instead of putting their hands up and admitting it 'they' will respond with ...



... giving the impression that 'they' can't be bothered to talk anymore, in the most dismissive manner possible.

But as soon as they (the same 'they', ie indoctrinated victims of yhwh) think they have found some small technicality to trip you up with they start to gush and write encyclopaedically sized posts, no matter how peripheral it is to the main subject matter.

I have yet to see 'them' dance the twist to Ezekiel 20:25,26... A clear and open admission by Yhwh that he did indeed ask for human sacrifice . Filicide to be precise.

25Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life, 26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.

PastorAIO:

I'm beginning to fear that the spirit of mendacity (a speciality of yhwh's) is at play.

All of these are irrelevant to the main point which is that yhwh required human sacrifice of children and clearly admits to this is in Ezekiel 20 25,26.

DeepSight:


Regrettably it is a familiar pattern among religionists of all colors, save perhaps some of the far eastern spiritual and meditative schools. One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the sheer ease with which they are able to dismiss and waltz past even the clearest verses, so long as they do not like them. I mean you can see a verse that reads "This stone is black" and poker faced, they will tell you that it actually means the stone is white - that is if they do not simply ignore the verse altogether even if you cite it a thousand times.

These same will insist that all scripture is inspired by God.

PastorAIO:




Why borrow it? after all it is available online. I bring this up because I'm beginning to fear that the spirit of mendacity (a speciality of yhwh's) is at play.



Please consider the word for mother, Iya. Then consider those spirits known in Yoruba as 'Our Mothers'. Iyaami Osoronga. because the ami is different does not mean that the word does not refer to the power of motherhood.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iyami_Aje



I believe the problem may be that you don't understand what Etymology is. Etymology does not concern itself with the present day meaning of a word but rather with the origins of the word, allowing for the fact that meanings can change and the phonetic word of the sound can change too.
Dictionaries do not give etymology but only pronunciation and present day meaning and usage. RC Abrahams dictionary does not go into the etymology of any words.
My favourite example of how very different sounding words can have the same etymology is the case with 'James'. The name James is originally Iacov, a Hebrew name. Iacov is directly translated into English as Jacob. However it is translated into Italian as Iago, or Diego, or Tiago. In English while Jacob is use it also manifests as James which some consider to be a different word/name.

All of these are irrelevant to the main point which is that yhwh required human sacrifice of children and clearly admits to this is in Ezekiel 20 25,26. However this is something that happens to be a pet interest of mine beyond this topic. It might help to consider the contexts in which the word ebo is used and how it is used, and what it refers to.

jamesid29:
It is well...

PastorAIO:


Actually it is not well. Not for anyone deceived by Yhwh. It is a dangerous game to play with an entity that is given to mendacity and lying. I see my people going to yhwh with an open heart, making honest enquiries of yhwh, and being led to their destruction thereby.


Let this be a lesson in point that those who go to enquire from his prophets are liable to be lied to and deceived. 1Kings 22. The entire chapter. Jehoshaphat the king of Israel came to Judah to plan a war and of Course the first thing they will do is enquire from the prophets of yhwh. In a spirit of honest enquiry they approach yhwh's prophets.

12And all the prophets prophesied so and said, “Go up to Ramoth-gilead and triumph; the LORD will give it into the hand of the king.” ....

....19And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20and the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 21Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.”



A god that can use his prophets to lie and cause disaster. A god that can give commands to sacrifice your first child, again with the express purpose of causing disaster. Is this what you are following? Is this the pit that my beautiful African brothers and sisters have fallen into? And they deeper they go into yhwh worship the worse their lives become, until the whole country is devastated. This is a serious frying pan and a serious fire altogether.

lndeed 'the thief comes only to Steal Kill and Destroy. '

mazaje:


More of Yahweh's acts of deceit as recorded in the bible. . . .

  JER 4:10 - Then I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, how completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, 'You will have peace,' when the sword is at our throats."

JER 20:7 - O LORD, you deceived me, and I was deceived you overpowered me and prevailed. I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me.

Its very clear that Yahweh has a penchant for sending lying spirits to people or deceiving people himself as recorded in the bible(Isaiah 37:7 and 2 Kings 19:7). The problem is if you read down in the book of Jeremiah you will see that Yahweh even acknowledge that he does evil and he apologized for the evil he did. . .

By the way what is it with Yahweh enticing people to send prophecies and then killing them at the same time. . .

EZ 14:9 - "'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.

PastorAIO:
But really we don’t need to read the bible to see that nefarious nasty evil of this entity that claims to be the creator of the world.

Just look around wherever his adherents are. Look all over Nigeria and the world where the abrahamics prevail.
When we started to obsess on this abrahamic evils that was when the country started getting worse and worse.

When Roman Empire embraced it that was when Rome fell. For Western Europe to rise to where it is today they had to embrace humanism and scientific enquiry which the church viciously opposed.

This whole affair is so barbarous and nasty. Hateful deceitful narcissistic repulsive people are produced by following it.

killyaselfie:


Wherever you see the influence of the ignoble Abrahamic fictions, you see bigotry, ignorance, injustice, and self-righteous belief that they have the moral high ground. The present state of Israel even goes so far as to run an apartheid state with support of most christians.

It’s elevation of one group of people over others as the “chosen people” of a universal deity promotes prejudice. If you accept the ridiculous notion that these people are chosen then you imply that you are somehow inferior. In order for the Romans and the Catholic Church to really spread the religion in Europe, they had to create images based on these stories in the likeness of Europeans, so that when the European mercanitile class started using it as a tool of conquest, Europeans saw themselves as the chosen people and everyone else to be beneath them. This is thh by e foundation of “white supremacy” and we continue to see the harm it causes worldwide.

Africans and other people that came in contact with these European Christians were seen as inferior and their images did not make it into the description of the divine. Non-Europeans who continue to adhere to these religions are implying their own inferiority and such people will be mired in mediocrity because they can’t envision themselves as more. There as to be an extensive and comprehensive propaganda project to reverse the psychological damage already done.
https://upstanderproject.org/firstlight/doctrine

Like I said, Ebo is often translated as sacrifice in English too, but when we look at all the contexts in which the word pops up we realise that a closer translation would just be A Nourishment, a feeding. As one can feed Ogun shrine so one can also feed a child. It would be odd to say in English that you've just given your Child a sacrifice when all you did was give him fried plantains.

jamesid29:


You're making the point we've all been trying to make to you sir. Almost every regular speaker of the Yoruba language, associates Ebo with the meaning [b]Ritual offering. I even did a google search of it and everywhere I looked(even in sites and papers focused on yoruba tradition or spirituality), I didn't see any where ebo meant anything other than ritual sacrifice. You're actually the first person I'm hearing a different meaning from. I am not disputing you're interpretation of ebo because[/b]
a) Critical Resources on yoruba spirituality and traditions are not easily accessible, so just because I couldn't find one anywhere that matches what you said after a couple searches doesn't automatically mean I should discard it
b) I do not know enough about the Yoruba conception of certain things in other to authoritatively negate your argument.

Now let's assume you are correct: Imagine you are faced with a text that say, Iya re fun l'ebo

DeepSight:


I wonder what jamesid29, NNTR, TenQ and company have to say about this episode of strategic deployment of falsehood.

I remember back in the day, was it Mazaje who created a thread called Yahweh and his lying angels.

https://www.nairaland.com/434436/yahweh-lying-angels

LordReed:


My guess is they bring up freewill or something like it.

Image123:


Understanding.