Mickykarim:
Hallelujah! All glory and honour to HIM. Halleluiah.

Jokerman:

Only a confused JW will equate Angel Michael to the Lord Jesus Christ

Jokerman:
Only a confused JW will equate Angel Michael to the Lord Jesus Christ

elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

Daniel 10:21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.

Some people use the Scripture above to support their claim that Michael is also Yahushua the Messiah. They fail to acknowledge the portion below:

Revelation 10: 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

Michael was referred to as one of the chief princes. It means, therefore, that there are/were other chief princes.


Yahushua the Messiah is the Word of YHVH Almighty, the Father. There is none like him. He has no equal among everything created by the Father.

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

Janosky:


You are confused by the English you think you know.
Your fellow 3 deities devotees Trinitarians acknowledge JWs are correct.
Hebrew lexicon 259, haahat translated as "the one" or "one of" , actually meaning "First/Senior or leader @ Daniel 10:13, Genesis 4:19 and Genesis 10:25, use Biblehub to check out the Hebrew lexicon.
Jesus is archangel Michael.

Jokerman:
The Bible explicitly teaches that Jesus is superior to all the angels, including the archangels. Hebrews 1:4–6 says Jesus has: “become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs. For to what angel did God ever say, “Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Angels don’t worship other angels; they worship only God.


▪︎ After Jesus’ calmed the storm on the Sea of Galilee, Matthew 14:33 tells us, “Those in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’” In the Old Testament, only God possessed power over the weather and the sea. Biblical scholar Moran Hooker points out that even though the disciples ask, “Who then is this, that even wind and sea obey him?” (Mark 4:41), to the reader of the Gospel “the answer to their question is obvious. It is God who made the sea, and God alone who controls it (Ps. 89:. The authority with which Jesus acts is that of God himself.”

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus warned us not to let emotions becloud our reasoning to the extent of doing what God will never forgive!
Sinning against the Holy Spirit!

johnw47:

lost false jw mad max

when christians talk about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
they are talking about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit of the bible
who fraud jw janosky calls "the 3 dogheads" etc.
he also calls the Holy Spirit "the ole demon ghost" etc

and you lost false jw mad max and other false jw's were happy to join him in his blaspheming

Mat 12:31  Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men 
Mat 12:32  And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Rev_20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

MaxInDHouse:

No wonder you're always typing out of point!
You can't sin against God's Holy Spirit when you don't know what it means. For instance it's only when someone knows the right from the wrong that God punishes such a person for WRONGDOINGS not when you don't even know what you're doing! Luke 23:34
So there's nothing wrong in what Janosky is debunking since you guys can't prove that it's the spirit of the true God.
When Jesus walked the earth several religious groups were already in place and they have their own teachings so when Jesus began his ministry they stood against him because what he's saying totally contradicts what they knew as righteousness.
So how can these religionists sin against God's Holy Spirit?
Is it just by speaking against Jesus' teachings?
Is it by criticizing whatever Jesus say?
Is it by denying his authenticity as the Messiah?
Is it by trying to kill him?
The answer to all these questions is NO!
The one and only reason why they can be said to sin against God's Holy Spirit is after knowing that Jesus' ministry is in line with God's purpose yet kicking against it!
For instance God already told them through Moses that another prophet will come from among that nation and TEACH them something totally different from what Moses taught them and they must listen to him! Deuteronomy 18:15-19
Secondly God said before that time a prophet with the spirit of Elijah will serve as forerunner for this greatest prophet {Malachi 3:1; 4:5} so they're to expect two prophets one immediately after another after about 500 year they had Malachi.
Thirdly the prophet will act like a wonderful counselor and God in their midst with great signs {Isaiah 9:6} and he teach them as one having authority! Isaiah 9:7 compare to Matthew 7:28-29
He will also organize them for a global campaign regarding God's Kingdom that's to come and rule the entire world! Zechariah 8:23 compare to Daniel 2:44
He will be a PRINCE who has come to establish PEACE so there will be none of his earthly subjects attacking one another due to racism, politics or vengeance of past blunders. Isaiah 9:6
Jesus met all these tasks adequately that's why he keep saying "i am doing the WORKS of my father" John 5:17; 10:36-38; 14:10
So if anyone is considering what the scriptures say as taught by the Scribes they will surely know that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) Matthew 23:2-3
Did these first century Jewish critics knew that Jesus is the promised Messiah?
YES of course! That's why Nicodemus one of them secretly went to Jesus at night to speak with him and learned a lot from him! John 3
This people also had Jewish zealots like Theudas and Judas {Act 5:36-37 compare to John 10:8} who gathered fighters and wanted to lead a revolution against the Roman government, both of them claimed they are the Messiah but they died miserably and all their followers were dispassed.
Jesus of Nazareth was the one and only man who proved beyond reasonable doubt that he is the real Messiah without military effort {Zechariah 4:6} nor disturbance in their neighbourhood! Matthew 12:19
So anyone who knew all these yet criticizing Jesus and the fine WORKS he's doing is no longer sinning against the son of man (Jesus) but actually sinning against God's Holy Spirit that's operating on Jesus {Luke 4:18} to accomplish these tasks! Matthew 12:31-32
But in this case there's no evidence that you people are doing anything having to do with God's purpose rather you're only criticizing JWs because their activities is affecting your positions as religious leaders of the day! John 11:48
Apart from that there's no reason why you can't preach your religion without insulting, abusing or cursing someone else who is preaching his own!

johnw47:


lost blasphemer false jw mad max

you can make excuses til doom's day, they won't save you

when christians talk about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
they are of course talking about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit of the bible

and fraud jw janosky was having a ball calling Father Son and Holy Spirit
things like: "the ole demon ghost" and "the three dog heads" etc.etc.
and you and other false jw's copied him in blaspheming, even giving likes to janosky's blasphemy's

fool yourself oh lost one with your long epistle
you certainly don't fool me

Mat 12:31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Rev_20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This JohnW fraud typing GIBBERISH, what is the topic of this thread causing you sifia pains?

Why must you always sound like a broken record?

Jokerman:

The Bible explicitly teaches that Jesus is superior to all the angels, including the archangels.

Jokerman:


Hebrews 1:4–6 says Jesus has: “become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs. For to what angel did God ever say, “Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Angels don’t worship other angels; they worship only God.

”

Jokerman:


▪︎ After Jesus’ calmed the storm on the Sea of Galilee, Matthew 14:33 tells us, “Those in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’” In the Old Testament, only God possessed power over the weather and the sea.
.”

John 17:7 & John 15:15, Jesus Christ acted on the Instructions from God.
Jesus Christis teaching you to understand the truth @ John 15:15 & 17:7.
Homage/obeisance/bow down is the proper word at Matthew 14:33, Catholic New Jerusalem Bible.
The Catholic Pope a Trinitarian,do not agree with your version of Matthew 14:33.
You know as the Yoruba's bow down , that is the meaning and context of that verse

Jokerman:

Biblical scholar Moran Hooker points out that even though the disciples ask, “Who then is this, that even wind and sea obey him?” (Mark 4:41), to the reader of the Gospel “the answer to their question is obvious. It is God who made the sea, and God alone who controls it (Ps. 89:. The authority with which Jesus acts is that of God himself.”

Jokerman:


1. So Archangel Michael is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? (REV 19:6)

2. So Archangel Michael is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end?
.

Jokerman:


3. Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings. He is one of the angels, he is not the Creator of the angels as the Bible says that Jesus is.
for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16)
.

Jokerman:


4. Michael is obviously not the Lord. He could not rebuke the Devil on his own, but rather called upon the Lord to rebuke him. But when the archangel Michael contended with the Devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 1: 9).
.

Jokerman:

5
However, Jesus has no such problem with the Devil - He personally rebuked him, since He is the Lord. Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Then the Devil left Him, and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him (Matthew 4:10,11).

Jokerman:


6. Jesus christ is the word of God, made flesh. Michael is one of the angel. Paul describes the voice Jesus would use when coming back.... as an archangel... explains that he's coming back with a powerful voice

.

Janosky:

This JohnW fraud typing GIBBERISH, what is the topic of this thread causing you sifia pains?

Why must you always sound like a broken record?

Janosky:


You are confused by the English you think you know.
Your fellow 3 deities devotees Trinitarians acknowledge JWs are correct.
Hebrew lexicon 259, haahat translated as "the one" or "one of" , actually meaning "First/Senior or leader @ Daniel 10:13, Genesis 4:19 and Genesis 10:25, use Biblehub to check out the Hebrew lexicon.
Jesus is archangel Michael.

AgirlsNightmAre:

Sorry those commentaries are outdated, I have those two commentaries you qouted from they're more than a 100yrs old
Hebrews 1:1-6 destroys the whole idea of Jesus being an angel. Christ is the only spirit person that is said to have existed in God's nature and also being the only-begotten-God (John 1:18)

Janosky:



Point 1.
Oga,it was the popular belief in Christendom , acknowledged by Trinitarians and Bible scholars alike,that Jesus Christ is archangel Michael, (the Geneva Bible,1599 @ Daniel 12:1 & 10:13, confirmed this) before the Advent & proliferation of 1611 KJV Bible under the influence of the king of England who undermined the printing and proliferation of 1599 Geneva Bible .
To officially spread Trinity doctrine, the king James had to suppress 1599 Geneva Bible from the populace & English speaking world.
.
.
Point 2
Genesis 16:7 & Malachi 3:1, Amplified Bible & Geneva Bibles , both Bible translations of Trinitarians, proven that Jesus is an angel of Jehovah, his Father.
Numerous times, I have shared screenshots confirming the biblical evidence as well as church leaders (Catholics, Anglican etc. ) Confirmation of this truth.

Let me explain thoroughly the biblical evidence..


A)
Do you know God's prophecy of Genesis 3:15?
Who is that serpent of Genesis 3:15?
Answer: Satan the Devil, Revelation 12:9.

B)
Who defeated the serpent of Genesis 3:15?
Answer: The seed, Jesus Christ (@Gal 3:16), the Archangel Michael @ Revelation 12:7-9, breaking up the works of the devil @1 John 3:8.

C)
Jacob is also called Israel, Peter is also called Simon, Dorcas is called Tabitha,Jesus is called 'the Word','the Messiah", why not the archangel Michael he is?
D)
Why is Jesus the Archangel Michael ?
Answer:
Because Jesus is the son of God leading other sons (Angels) of God in battle,glory & victory @Matt25:31, 2 Thess1:7-8, Daniel 10:13.
E)
Whose voice resurrects the dead?
Answer: Archangel Michael,1Thess4:16 & John 5:28.

F)
Oga, pls pay thorough attention to this point and know the Bible truth of Daniel 10:13 & 12:1.
Many persons do not understand the use and meaning of Hebrew word "Haa.hat" (Hebrew lexicon 259) translated "the one/one of" at Daniel 10:13.
Biblical evidences: Daniel 10:13, Genesis 4:19 and Genesis 10:25 "Haa.hat" (Hebrew lexicon 259) translated "the one/one of" at Daniel 10:13 means "First/Senior/Leader of the pack.
Matthew 25:31,2Thess1:7-8, Daniel 10:13,Jn3:16 ,is Jesus Christ leading the sons of God to victory & salvation of Daniel and mankind?
Resoundingly YES !!

MaxInDHouse:


Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.  For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?  But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.” Hebrews 1:1-6


During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt. “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” Daniel 12:1-4

A PRINCE can only be Son of the KING.
So Archangel Michael is the Prince who put on the form of slave (became lesser than angels by becoming a humans) for our SALVATION!

Janosky:


You are confused by the English you think you know.
Your fellow 3 deities devotees Trinitarians acknowledge JWs are correct.
Hebrew lexicon 259, haahat translated as "the one" or "one of" , actually meaning "First/Senior or leader @ Daniel 10:13, Genesis 4:19 and Genesis 10:25, use Biblehub to check out the Hebrew lexicon.
Jesus is archangel Michael.

MaxInDHouse:


Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.  For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?  But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.” Hebrews 1:1-6


During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt. “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” Daniel 12:1-4

A PRINCE can only be Son of the KING.
So Archangel Michael is the Prince who put on the form of slave (became lesser than angels by becoming a humans) for our SALVATION!

AgirlsNightmAre:

Psalms 8:5 talks about humans as being "made a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor".
So now you mean we are being made a little lower that Christ?, that will be very absurd an a big insult to the person of Christ. Who is the exact representation of God's very being, the image of the invisible God .

At Hebrews Chapter one, Jesus possess a name better than the angels and all of them are under his authority.Verse 6 goes on to say that all the angels of God should Worship him.
This can't be done to a fellow Angel, the word Worship use in that verse is from the Greek "Proskeneo" according to Strong's concordance it means: "From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship."
Thayer's Greek Lexicon also says :"In the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank"

Jesus is and always was superior to the angels, he was in the beginning with God and he was the agent of creation, all things were created through him wether the things in heaven or on Earth, apart from him not even one thing will have come into existence.
"To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet" ? Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?"

MaxInDHouse:

When talking about the image or God's rep on planet earth Adam should come to mind first because the scriptures said:

And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27
So Adam is God's Son {Luke 3:38} and image of the invisible God. It was due to Adam's fall that made man loose that glory! Romans 3:23
Therefore Jesus came to reestablish that image by maintaining obedience throughout unlike Adam who fell, so if Adam didn't fall we don't need Jesus at all nor have business to do with him!


Before his earthly ministry Archangel Michael only worked with his father as a craftsman during creation and both of them were fund of each other but his name remains Michael until the need arises for the salvation of mankind.
So it was after a successful earthly mission that this angel earned himself a name that's above all others, before then he's just like the first born son among all other angels that's all! Colossians 1:15-16


The question is rhetorical, Jesus was an angel before coming to the earth but after his earthly mission was successful God told him "sit at my right hand" {Psalms 110:1} before then he's just one of the angels who has authority like other as their father gave them!

Jesus once asked the same type of question when he said:

“Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Matthew 12:48

It doesn't mean that Mary and his brothers aren't related to him but he prefer those related to him in the faith as in those that believe in him.
So the question you're quoting @ Hebrews simply means God never introduced any angel to the Hebrews therefore they shouldn't pray to God using the names of angels.
For your information the Jews often use the names of different angles during their prayers like Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel and others but the name given is JESUS {Philippians 2:10} not any angelic name that's the import of what you're quoting!

AgirlsNightmAre:

You're just mixing things up, wether or not the Jews used names of Angels in their prayers it doesn't tie in with this particular discussion
A direct reading of Hebrews CHAPTER 1 shows Christ superiority to the angels and clearly shows he is not one of them.
And my first question: Were humans made a little lower than Jesus?

MaxInDHouse:


Jesus came in to the scene after the rebellion {Genesis 3:15} so had it been Adam did not fall we don't need to know Jesus at all, Adam would have being our everlasting father {Isaiah 9:6} who will never die but continue to teach us lots of things about his heavenly father who created him and taught him to teach us {Deuteronomy 6:4-6} on this planet but it was due to his death and the way he passed death to all of us that brought Jesus in the scene. Romans 3:23; 5:12; 6:23

So it was one of the angels that came to undue the damage cursed by Satan and the first human pair that rebelled against God! Daniel 12:1-3

As regards your question, Adam was made lower than angels that's why Satan (an angel) thought of ruling over Adam and his descendants because angels are higher than humans in all respect!

So from the beginning we were made lower than angels!

Jokerman:


Mr JW, when Archangel Michael confronted the archangel Lucifer over Moses body, why couldn't he rebuke the Devil instantly, but said "The Lord Rebuke thee?....

Remember even on earth, Jesus rebuked the devil instantly, that is without the spiritual body, that angel Michael had.

So if Angel Michael was Jesus, why couldn't he do it then, without calling on the Lord?

• 2nd point, do you think Archangel Michael will have the authority to say this to Apostle John?
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.