LordReed:


Understanding what?

Image123:


Understanding of God and of the Bible.

LordReed:


You understand why your god uses deception? Pray tell.

Image123:


Where did God use deception? i said that understanding God and His Word will help to have a balanced and clearer view of God. Who told you that lying is not good but the same God.

PastorAIO:


Actually it is not well. Not for anyone deceived by Yhwh. It is a dangerous game to play with an entity that is given to mendacity and lying. I see my people going to yhwh with an open heart, making honest enquiries of yhwh, and being led to their destruction thereby.

Let this be a lesson in point that those who go to enquire from his prophets are liable to be lied to and deceived. 1Kings 22. The entire chapter. Jehoshaphat the king of Israel came to Judah to plan a war and of Course the first thing they will do is enquire from the prophets of yhwh. In a spirit of honest enquiry they approach yhwh's prophets.

12And all the prophets prophesied so and said, “Go up to Ramoth-gilead and triumph; the LORD will give it into the hand of the king.” ....

....19And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20and the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 21Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.”



A god that can use his prophets to lie and cause disaster. A god that can give commands to sacrifice your first child, again with the express purpose of causing disaster. Is this what you are following? Is this the pit that my beautiful African brothers and sisters have fallen into? And they deeper they go into yhwh worship the worse their lives become, until the whole country is devastated. This is a serious frying pan and a serious fire altogether.

lndeed 'the thief comes only to Steal Kill and Destroy. '

Image123:


Where did God use deception? i said that understanding God and His Word will help to have a balanced and clearer view of God. Who told you that lying is not good but the same God.

LordReed:

Image123:


Oh, so you had to quote this yahoo pastor that has nowhere to go. Like i earlier said, anyone that knows God and understands His word cannot be deceived. God wants all men to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Psa 19:7  The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 

The Bible teaches that people can be deceived because they do not love the truth. If you sow hatred for the truth, you will definitely reap deception.

2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 

AIO lied so many times in that post that i lost count, yet you seemingly took it hook, link and sinker.
He says God is given to mendacity and lying, yet can only point out an event. One would think that he'd have at least three or more for his efforts. He lies that his people(Ahab) go to God with an open heart, making honest enquiries. You do know Ahab i believe. He is not related to AIO in anyway and i don't know how Ahab is AIO's people. It's a joke that Ahab of all people is referred to as open hearted and honest.
As you clearly know from the passage, those prophets were not prophets of God but Ahab's prophets and yes-men. King Jehoshaphat immediately saw through the charade and asked for God's prophet.
(WEB)  But Jehoshaphat said, “Isn’t there here a prophet of Yahweh, that we may inquire of him?”

It is then that Ahab reluctantly called Micaiah. You would think that he would have called Elijah right, but he lied that there is one. He clearly knew the ones who would tell him what he wanted to hear. That is not an open or honest heart, it is called an itching ear.

1Ki 22:8  The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “There is yet one man by whom we may inquire of Yahweh, Micaiah the son of Imlah; but I hate him, for he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil.” Jehoshaphat said, “Don’t let the king say so.” 

God's prophet summarily came and told him the truth. Imagine that Ahab KNEW the truth and the lie, you have read the account before.
1Ki 22:16  The king said to him, “How many times do I have to adjure you that you speak to me nothing but the truth in Yahweh’s name?” 
1Ki 22:17  He said, “I saw all Israel scattered on the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd. Yahweh said, ‘These have no master. Let them each return to his house in peace.’” 

He was gracious enough to explain the cause of his being deceived, he did not love the truth.

1Ki 22:22  Yahweh said to him, ‘How?’ He said, ‘I will go out and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ He said, ‘You will entice him, and will also prevail. Go out and do so.’ 

Clearly again, we can see here that these prophets were his(Ahab) prophets, not God's prophets. Something very clear from the Bible is that nothing goes on without God's permission. Not necessarily God's will but God's permission. You can clearly see that in the case of Job. God permits a lot of things that are not His will. Some may be due to the fact of cause and consequence. Why God permits is a different world of discussion on its own. But anyone who understands God knows the clear difference between His will and His permission.

Of course, you do know that Ahab put God's prophet in prison despite him telling the truth and exposing everything. You should learn from the Scriptures and be instructed. If you genuinely want the truth, God will reveal it to you. But if you are looking for a noose to hang yourself, God will most likely give you too. Everyone that seeketh findeth.

LordReed:


You understand why your god uses deception? Pray tell.

LordReed:


This was my question again:



You think that this was the only instance? It says ing the NT the god will send a delusion, what is a delusion if not deception?

Image123:


Already answered it. Because the people want to be deceived. If you want to be deceived, you will be deceived.

LordReed:


My guess is they bring up freewill or something like it.

Image123:


AIO lied so many times in that post that i lost count, yet you seemingly took it hook, link and sinker.
He says God is given to mendacity and lying, yet can only point out an event. One would think that he'd have at least three or more for his efforts.

mazaje:


More of Yahweh's acts of deceit as recorded in the bible. . . .

  JER 4:10 - Then I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, how completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, 'You will have peace,' when the sword is at our throats."

JER 20:7 - O LORD, you deceived me, and I was deceived you overpowered me and prevailed. I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me.

Its very clear that Yahweh has a penchant for sending lying spirits to people or deceiving people himself as recorded in the bible(Isaiah 37:7 and 2 Kings 19:7). The problem is if you read down in the book of Jeremiah you will see that Yahweh even acknowledge that he does evil and he apologized for the evil he did. . .

By the way what is it with Yahweh enticing people to send prophecies and then killing them at the same time. . .

EZ 14:9 - "'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.

Yhwh says to Josiah:

Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: Regarding the words that you have heard, 19because your heart was penitent, and you humbled yourself before the LORD, when you heard how I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and you have torn your clothes and wept before me, I also have heard you, declares the LORD. 20Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the disaster that I will bring upon this place.’”

1Kings 23

Josiah’s Death in Battle

28Now the rest of the acts of Josiah and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah? 29In his days Pharaoh Neco king of Egypt went up to the king of Assyria to the river Euphrates. King Josiah went to meet him, and Pharaoh Neco killed him at Megiddo, as soon as he saw him. 30And his servants carried him dead in a chariot from Megiddo and brought him to Jerusalem and buried him in his own tomb.

Image123:


Already answered it. Because the people want to be deceived. If you want to be deceived, you will be deceived.

LordReed:

Image123:


More of reaping and sowing IMHO. If you want to so broadly classify it, it's okay then. God's requirements from man remain unchanging. He demands righteousness, truth and honesty and He will punish every disobedient one.

LordReed:


Really? So why didn't he punish Abraham, Isaac or Jacob when they lied?

PastorAIO:


Or Jesus

LordReed:


Jesus?

PastorAIO:


John7
6Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here. 7The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil. 8You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” 9After saying this, he remained in Galilee.

10But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up , not publicly but in private.

Are telling untruths righteous now? I suppose so.

PastorAIO:


John7
6Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here. 7The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil. 8You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” 9After saying this, he remained in Galilee.

10But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up , not publicly but in private.

Are telling untruths righteous now? I suppose so.

PastorAIO:


Why are you scurrying away from the light like a cockroach. You can't even mention my user name so that I know that you are addressing my post. Always slinking about in the darkness.

How many women must a rapist rape before you denounce him as a rapist and sentence him according to the law?

So one lie is not enough to call someone a liar. Not to mention the fact that this thread is full of many many many examples of what we are talking about. Someone even linked to another thread that Mazaje made a long time ago filled with examples of Yhwh's lies.

Here's an excerpt from the thread:

More of Yahweh's acts of deceit as recorded in the bible. . . .

  JER 4:10 - Then I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, how completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, 'You will have peace,' when the sword is at our throats."

JER 20:7 - O LORD, you deceived me, and I was deceived you overpowered me and prevailed. I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me.

Its very clear that Yahweh has a penchant for sending lying spirits to people or deceiving people himself as recorded in the bible(Isaiah 37:7 and 2 Kings 19:7). The problem is if you read down in the book of Jeremiah you will see that Yahweh even acknowledge that he does evil and he apologized for the evil he did. . .

By the way what is it with Yahweh enticing people to send prophecies and then killing them at the same time. . .

EZ 14:9 - "'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.

It clearly shows that it is a modus operandi of yhwh. But of course you saw this but you are lying that I only gave one example. Which of course is no surprise after all your god is a god of mendacity so you too must be a liar.

PastorAIO:
Who wants to be deceived? Did Josiah the favoured King of Yhwh want to be deceived?

LordReed:


Really? So why didn't he punish Abraham, Isaac or Jacob when they lied?

Image123:


As usual, you do not carry out due diligence. Where in the text was Josiah deceived except that you are trying to deceive the gullible who would not check up and read in context.

Image123:

He died for his carelessness and busy-body, not in the judgement and captivity that you are trying to mislead people about.

Image123:


Two things here.

Act_17:30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
There is the mercy of God and the context and motive that God places in consideration.

i guess you are referring to the episodes of Abraham and Isaac lying about their wives.
For one, Abraham was technically telling the truth as Sarah was his "sister" as they used to address it in those days. A study of the events show how God left Abram and didn't continue with him till chapter 15. Then

Gen 20:12  And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. 

Gen 20:16  And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved.

Isaac's repetition of the episode sorted out itself as the people later discovered the truth. He did not insist on lying or covering up the lie with another lie. As for Jacob, he suffered and was paid in his coin ten times over until he said the truth to the angel that his name is Jacob.
If you will also repent today, the good thing is that there is forgiveness for you too. Stop living the lie, God is calling you to a honest and sincere life, void of deceit.

Image123:


More of reaping and sowing IMHO. If you want to so broadly classify it, it's okay then. God's requirements from man remain unchanging. He demands righteousness, truth and honesty and He will punish every disobedient one.

Image123:


Two things here.

Act_17:30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
.

PastorAIO:


Of course you can’t help but lie. Where did I ever mention judgment and captivity?

NNTR:
If thats a source of wisdom and consolation for you, then so be it

Whatever the depth, this hole you've digging yourself and climbing down in to, just know that there's a way out of it, and the way to safely climb out of the hole, is by conceding that this one verse did give evidence of human sacrifice, albeit none of your fantasy burnt offering for that matter, but it was a perpetual living sacrifice performed by Jephthah's daughter, until death (i.e. the rest of her life

Do you notice how you evaded answering the question, asking if you, believe that Jephthah wasnt familiar with and wasnt aware of Deuteronomy 12:31, Deuteronomy 18:10, Leviticus 18:21 and 2 Kings 21:6? Hmm?

I am leaving for you, to toy and play with in your mind, that important it word, that I underlined in Judges 11:31 above, loll.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
So you do see the point that Jephthah clearly is familiar with and equally aware of Deuteronomy 12:31, Deuteronomy 18:10, Leviticus 18:21 and 2 Kings 21:6 then

There's no conflict of interest whatsoever between Deuteronomy 12:31, Deuteronomy 18:10, Leviticus 18:21, and 2 Kings 21:6 and Jephthah's action.

Both the first and second promises that Jephthah made in his veiled forked coded vows did not, in anyway, come into conflict with Deuteronomy 12:31, Deuteronomy 18:10, Leviticus 18:21, and 2 Kings 21:6 because Jephthah's intended action had nothing to do with a dead sacrifice of a fellow human being

You dont want to know the truth. What you really want to know and what you're getting at, is digging your heels in to the ground believing lies, that Jephthah sacrificed another person, his daughter as a burning sacrifice to God

When reading all the verses, you didnt pay meticulous attention to every detail of the verses. If you did, you wouldnt have brought up the topic.

The only one word reason, you brought this up is not because Jephthah's actions were not in line with other teachers, it is because of ignorance (i.e. meaning, your lack of knowledge of the significant facts in the bible passage)

Now watch this tctrills. What Jephthah did in Judges 11:31 was to combine two vows, which to an untrained or unsuspecting eyes, like yours, appears on the surface, to look as if its just one straight vow.

Judges 11:31, as a matter of fact and truth, is a coded message verse, wrapping up and holding within it, two vows.

Judges 11:31
Then it shall be, that whatsoever comes forth of the doors of my house to meet me,
when I return in peace from the children of Ammon,
shall surely be the LORD'S,
and I will offer 'IT' up for a burnt offering.

Vow number 1:
"whatsoever comes forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S"

Vow Number 2:
"and I will offer 'IT' up for a burnt offering."

Listen to this tctrills, Judges 11:31, in relation to the two vows, is explained like this:

Referring to Vow number 1:
Whatsoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me shall surely be the LORD'S (i.e. meaning, whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet Jephthah, will be given over to God, as a living sacrifice that's devoted to service)

Referring to Vow number 2:
Better still, if it happens to be an 'IT' (i.e. meaning, if it happens to be an animal AND NOT a human being, then Jephthah, will offer 'IT', the animal up for a burnt offering sacrifice.)

Vow number 2, served as, an extra or added bonus vow. Do you, now get it? Hmm?

Judges 11:34-37
³⁴When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter came out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy.
She was his one and only child; he had no other sons or daughters.
³⁵When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish.
“Oh, my daughter!” he cried out. “You have completely destroyed me! You’ve brought disaster on me!
For I have made a vow to the Lord, and I cannot take it back.”
³⁶And she said, “Father, if you have made a vow to the Lord,
you must do to me what you have vowed, for the Lord has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites.
³⁷But first let me do this one thing: Let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin

Smh at you. I am saying that Judges 11 is part of the bible, while your confusion about Jephthah and his daughter is not in the bible

tctrills, you can see from Judges 11:34-37 above, that when Jephthah's daughter came out to meet him, father and daughter instantly knew the fate of the daughter is now a lifetime of celibacy, meaning that, Jephthah's daughter now never will marry and she'll be sexually abstinent in addition to her dedication to God (i.e. as per the detail in vow number 1)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

alchemist13:
Jephthah is unlikely to know about this passages has they were likely authored generations after the time the story of Jephthah is supposed to take place.

alchemist13:
All I can just say is biblical authorship is a bit more complicated than you might have been taught an you will need to read-up on it.

alchemist13:
In any case most Isrealites would have been illiterate and not have had the opportunity for the law to be read to them

alchemist13:
... and Jephthah seems to have grown-up as an outcast in the community.

PastorAIO:


Did you know that Captivity is the lot planned for you by your demon deity? Image123

NNTR:

shall surely be Yahweh's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.