I am not sure that a newbie or first timer to renewable energy was able to take away that point or the fine nuances of context from your initial comments below. It is very important to spec clearly what you mean and any caveats when giving advice or support on a public forum.

I am the first to admit that LFP chemistry for example is vastly superior to lead acid especially for deep discharge applications.

The pertinent question is why does LFP appear to perform so much better? Beyond the superiority of the chemical/materials/electrolyte mix, a key part of LFP longevity is due to the work of the BMS and balance circuitry and use of optimal charge settings - implement a similar scheme for lead acid (ensure regular full charge per battery unit) and you will witness spectacular gains in longevity.

ojeysky:


Lead acid can deteriorate within a month and since you don't know whether the original user maintained the charge/discharge precautions with lead acid I will not advice you go for it. The story will be different if it was a used Lifepo4

ojeysky:


That's absolutely correct with reference to voltage but the point I was making was in reference to SOC levels... You can be discharging lifepo4 up to 80% dept daily without worry after 4 months but same can't be said with lead acid but ofcourse if op can reliably very the capacity all good.

Valto:
sorry,12v 230ah is not available.i cant sell 4pcs

your tbb inverter can be set at thier office to charge at specific voltage.

a clumsy way of doing things @TBB setting charge voltage at only their head office. so if am in lafia and my circumstances change...and I wish to adjust the charge voltage...i would start sending the unit back to tbb head office?

earthrealm:


a clumsy way of doing things @TBB setting charge voltage at only their head office. so if am in lafia and my circumstances change...and I wish to adjust the charge voltage...i would start sending the unit back to tbb head office?

TBB inverters have dip switches for models without display and buttons that serves for almost 90% of use case scenarios, the office settings thingy is for special cases and not for everyone.

Accessories are also available to enable you change settings whenever you want to but it comes at an extra price.

Options are abound for you if need be....

earthrealm:


a clumsy way of doing things @TBB setting charge voltage at only their head office. so if am in lafia and my circumstances change...and I wish to adjust the charge voltage...i would start sending the unit back to tbb head office?

this is for thier smaller and cheaper models. u can also buy the accessory for settings. for thier higher models and hybrid types, it is fully editable.

ojeysky:


Are those the broken panels from the warehouse? They seem to be performing fair enough.... enjoy the sun power Bro and when funds show be sure to move to lifepo4.... it's better experienced than said

Yes, they are the broken panels.

Sure! I definitely have my eyes set on Lithium now. The testimonies you guys share are better experienced.

I have been following this TBB matter with some interest.

I do not know what special benefits the TBB has but Felicity sell fully user programmable units all the way from 1.5Kva to 10kva. Below 5kva there are 12v and 24v models. The ability to program your inverter to your taste comes fully available out of the box.

Apart from very good after sales service, you can set flexible charge voltages (absorb and float) and even flexible LVD on these Felicity units making them suitable for lead acid and Lithium.

The above should satisfy entry level needs robustly - I do not know if there is any extra advantage to these dumber seeming TBBs? Could it be price perhaps?

saint2ace:


TBB inverters have dip switches for models without display and buttons that serves for almost 90% of use case scenarios, the office settings thingy is for special cases and not for everyone.

Accessories are also available to enable you change settings whenever you want to but it comes at an extra price.

Options are abound for you if need be....

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NiyiOmoIyunade:
I have been following this TBB matter with some interest.

I do not know what special benefits the TBB has but Felicity sell fully user programmable units all the way from 1.5Kva to 10kva. Below 5kva there are 12v and 24v models. The ability to program your inverter to your taste comes fully available out of the box.

Apart from very good after sales service, you can set flexible charge voltages (absorb and float) and even flexible LVD on these Felicity units making them suitable for lead acid and Lithium.

The above should satisfy entry level needs robustly - I do not know if there is any extra advantage to these dumber seeming TBBs? Could it be price perhaps?

Price for 1 as the Felicity 12v 1.5kva sells for around 170k on jumia while the tbb 1.2kva sells for just 83k. The inverter is fully compatible with either fld or sld batteries out of the box while you only need to go their office to edit the voltage if you are planning to incorporate lithium batteries. You can also buy the external display meter to edit for around 40k if you have the extra cash

The Felicity 1.5Kva 12v sells for less than 125K from credible sources boss - this is a smart inverter with fully flexible voltage and LVD settings in the box.

It may be deliberate unfairness to compare 'company price' of one item with 'JUMIA price' of the other especially also comparing 1.2Kva TBB with 1.5Kva Felicity.

Anyways, whoever has need can pickup the inverters they find fits their needs best.

Penuelseun:
Price for 1 as the Felicity 12v 1.5kva sells for around 170k on jumia while the tbb 1.2kva sells for just 83k. The inverter is fully compatible with either fld or sld batteries out of the box while you only need to go their office to edit the voltage if you are planning to incorporate lithium batteries. You can also buy the external display meter to edit for around 40k if you have the extra cash

NiyiOmoIyunade:
The Felicity 1.5Kva 12v sells for less than 125K from credible sources boss - this is a smart inverter with fully flexible voltage and LVD settings in the box.

It may be deliberate unfairness to compare 'company price' of one item with 'JUMIA price' of the other especially also comparing 1.2Kva TBB with 1.5Kva Felicity.

Anyways, whoever has need can pickup the inverters they find fits their needs best.

The 83k is also jumia price. I will still choose tbb over Felicity

NiyiOmoIyunade:
The Felicity 1.5Kva 12v sells for less than 125K from credible sources boss - this is a smart inverter with fully flexible voltage and LVD settings in the box.

It may be deliberate unfairness to compare 'company price' of one item with 'JUMIA price' of the other especially also comparing 1.2Kva TBB with 1.5Kva Felicity.

Anyways, whoever has need can pickup the inverters they find fits their needs best.
Penuelseun:

are both hybrids?. if yes low voltage or high voltage. whats the size of the inbuilt mppt?

earthrealm:


are both hybrids?. if yes low voltage or high voltage. whats the size of the inbuilt mppt?

the tbb has a hybrid version for around 105k, it is low voltage because the inbuilt controller is pwm. I have not used or operated the Felicity before

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I have been following this TBB matter with some interest.

I do not know what special benefits the TBB has but Felicity sell fully user programmable units all the way from 1.5Kva to 10kva. Below 5kva there are 12v and 24v models. The ability to program your inverter to your taste comes fully available out of the box.

Apart from very good after sales service, you can set flexible charge voltages (absorb and float) and even flexible LVD on these Felicity units making them suitable for lead acid and Lithium.

The above should satisfy entry level needs robustly - I do not know if there is any extra advantage to these dumber seeming TBBs? Could it be price perhaps?

Oga Niyi that has refused to answer my queries even after multiple quotes or tags.

The major advantage of the tbb is it's low self consumption, the transformer inside it is toroidal unlike the felicity that has the iron core type which obviously would have a higher idle consumption except proven otherwise (I have asked for this countless time here but nobody has shared their experience with the felicity)
Though I would recommend the felicity due to it's editable settings, and that's the only edge I'll give it over the tbb.

The answer to this seemingly simple question is 'it depends'

A lot depends on the particular mix of equipment you have.

Yes you can connect individual 12v chargers to each 12v battery (or parallel 12v batteries) in a larger 48v bank for example.

The specific algorithm depends on many factors but your goal should be that the inverter and solar chargers are charging at a lower voltage than the individual 12v chargers - you basically want the standalone chargers to complete the charge.

Now where are you powering the chargers from? Mains or Gen no trouble, from thesame inverter AC out as the batteries, then you need a mechanism to cutoff the standalone chargers in case Mains and/or solar becomes insufficient - basically you cannot use the batteries to charge themselves!

If your inverter is pure sine wave you can generally power the chargers off the inverter AC out, modified sine wave inverters may not have the AC and DC sides isolated and may short out.

So in most cases you can add on standalone chargers without trouble but you need to be sure your equipment supports it.

A good quality adjustable voltage smart charger is not cheap so your battery pack should be large enough to merit such effort and expenditure

Juror:

Thanks for your contribution as always. I need some clarification.
I believe generally, charging each battery in it's isolated state with a 12V charger is normal but based on your experience and what you've practically done, do you attach the 12V charger to each battery's terminal without disconnecting them from the string?

Also, do you switch off solar charging for them while doing so or the solar charging continues while the individual chargers also charge the batteries while being powered from the grid or Gen?

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I am not sure that a newbie or first timer to renewable energy was able to take away that point or the fine nuances of context from your initial comments below. It is very important to spec clearly what you mean and any caveats when giving advice or support on a public forum.

I am the first to admit that LFP chemistry for example is vastly superior to lead acid especially for deep discharge applications.

The pertinent question is why does LFP appear to perform so much better? Beyond the superiority of the chemical/materials/electrolyte mix, a key part of LFP longevity is due to the work of the BMS and balance circuitry and use of optimal charge settings - implement a similar scheme for lead acid (ensure regular full charge per battery unit) and you will witness spectacular gains in longevity.

Okay Sir, put a BMS on lead acid to address SOC concern and achieve 3000cycles.... There are folks who run their lifepo4 without BMS (even though I don't do that personally) and still get the performance because you seem to want to tie it's performance to a BMS which can be misleading to newbie.

However, I refuse the temptation to enter into another round of lead acid/LFP talk Sir.

Good day all, abeg who get this Wifi Dongle? I need it 5pcs.

I have just one.

jonescosmo:
Good day all, abeg who get this Wifi Dongle? I need it 5pcs.

Valto:
sorry,12v 230ah is not available.i cant sell 4pcs

your tbb inverter can be set at thier office to charge at specific voltage.

Noted bro, thanks.

I do not think one can safely use LFP cells without a BMS especially the higher your cell count in series.

A lot of the no BMS gang are foreign offgriders/boondockers with small 12v systems - 4 cells in series with no BMS and the odds are in your favour, 16 cells in series and/or multiple packs and no BMS you are actually tempting fate.

Sadly most balancers/BMSs for lead acid do not work well enough - the accepted method for lead acid maintenance is 'controlled overcharge' - flooded users do this via regular equalization but most AGM and Gel users do not. It is best to do this 'controlled overcharge' at the single battery level as I have preached over and over and then you can actually see great gains in lead acid battery longevity and achieve the rated cycle life.

Again the specialised 12v chargers that can properly top off a 12v battery are not cheap so one has to balance everything out for his decision.

ojeysky:


Okay Sir, put a BMS on lead acid to address SOC concern and achieve 3000cycles.... There are folks who run their lifepo4 without BMS (even though I don't do that personally) and still get the performance because you seem to want to tie it's performance to a BMS which can be misleading to newbie.

However, I refuse the temptation to enter into another round of lead acid/LFP talk Sir.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I do not think one can safely use LFP cells without a BMS especially the higher your cell count in series.

A lot of the no BMS gang are foreign offgriders/boondockers with small 12v systems - 4 cells in series with no BMS and the odds are in your favour, 16 cells in series and/or multiple packs and no BMS you are actually tempting fate.

Sadly most balancers/BMSs for lead acid do not work well enough - the accepted method for lead acid maintenance is 'controlled overcharge' - flooded users do this via regular equalization but most AGM and Gel users do not. It is best to do this 'controlled overcharge' at the single battery level as I have preached over and over and then you can actually see great gains in lead acid battery longevity and achieve the rated cycle life.

Again the specialised 12v chargers that can properly top off a 12v battery are not cheap so one has to balance everything out for his decision.

I do not also advice one use Lifepo4 without BMS but that does not mean one can't safely use it especially if one stays within certain charge and discharge rates. However the other point is that BMS is not what makes lifepo4 to perform but rather more of a safety feature that in some cases also limits lifepo4 performance

That said remember where all these round of talk started from, which was from a op asking about buying a used lead acid. The main point is that an LFP that is allowed to get to its voltage limits(up and down) is dead so it's easy to know if someone is selling such battery, but if its safely used for 4 months you can easily conclude that the cells are still almost up to capacity so long as it was bought new initially.

However for lead acid that is not dead, unless you conduct a capacity test or seller is truthful to provide you his usage history you can't be sure of the juice left in it after 4 months of usage, it's capacity may have "halfed" already.

jonescosmo:
Good day all, abeg who get this Wifi Dongle? I need it 5pcs.

Available 35k ..


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ojeysky:


I do not also advice one use Lifepo4 with BMS but that does not mean one can't safely use it especially if one stays within certain charge and discharge rates. However the other point is that BMS is not what makes lifepo4 to perform but rather more of a safety feature that in some cases also limits lifepo4 performance

That said remember where all these round of talk started from, which was from a op asking about buying a used lead acid. The main point is that an LFP that is allowed to get to its voltage limits(up and down) is dead so it's easy to know if someone is selling such battery, but if its safely used for 4 months you can easily conclude that the cells are still almost up to capacity so long as it was bought new initially.

However for lead acid that is not dead, unless you conduct a capacity test or seller is truthful to provide you his usage history you can't be sure of the juice left in it after 4 months of usage, it's capacity may have "halfed" already.

bolded

coldcandy:


bolded

Yup u should certainly use BMS if you want to take full advantage of the lifepo4 juice and so you can have a good sleep knowing that your 100s of thousands is safe but BMS is not what makes it perform infact it hinders it's performance (though in a good way)