TenQ:

It was a simple and direct question!
Have you noted that they have never been called 12 tribes of Jacob but 12 tribes of Israel?

My response is for many not just you alone so if i answer any question i always have other readers (followers) in mind.
They're not called Jacob's descendants because God changed the name of Jacob to Israel God's preferred name for all Faithful people who will become His worshipers throughout the world!

Lukuluku69:


Don't even bother to understand this, they are a confused lot. Watch as they come up with different theories and exegesis on the fabled 144,000.

The answer to this confusion is in the Gospel of Barnabas.

I am just amazed!

MaxInDHouse:

My response is for many not just you alone so if i answer any question i always have other readers (followers) in mind.
They're not called Jacob's descendants because God changed the name of Jacob to Israel God's preferred name for all Faithful people who will become His worshipers throughout the world!

1. Are there some "tribeless" children of Israel?
2. Which specific tribe of Israel do you come from?

TenQ:

1. Are there some "tribeless" children of Israel?
2. Which specific tribe of Israel do you come from?

The book of Revelation is not talking about literal tribes but faithful people from all nations figuratively replacing faithless Israelites, John the baptist told the Jews that God can raise up children for Abraham from stones if the natural Jews aren't responding to the privilege given them {Matthew 3:9} Jesus also emphasized on the same point when he used a parable of the wedding feast where people from different races are invited to participate since natural Jews turned down the invitation! Matthew 22:1-14

I am not from any of those figurative tribes rather i'm one of the other sheep {John 10:16} who have come from nations, peoples, tribes and tongues! Revelations 7:9-10

MaxInDHouse:


The book of Revelation is not talking about literal tribes but faithful people from all nations figuratively replacing faithless Israelites, John the baptist told the Jews that God can raise up children for Abraham from stones if the natural Jews aren't responding to the privilege given them {Matthew 3:9} Jesus also emphasized on the same point when he used a parable of the wedding feast where people from different races are invited to participate since natural Jews turned down the invitation! Matthew 22:1-14

I am not from any of those figurative tribes rather i'm one of the other sheep {John 10:16} who have come from nations, peoples, tribes and tongues! Revelations 7:9-10

I asked another simple direct question!

About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?

About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

When you answer these two questions truthfully, I will ask you the third question!

TenQ:

I asked another simple direct question!
About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?
When you answer these two questions truthfully, I will ask you the third question!

You're not serious!
So it's you this guy again with your arguments that's always aimless shey?
What exactly do you want to know from these questions since you can see that the literal tribes of Israel aren't the same mentioned in the Bible book of Revelation 7:4-8?
Ọmọ if you have something tangible to say better go ahead and say it i'm not interested in this your stupid questioning that's of no sense!

MaxInDHouse:

You're not serious!
So it's you this guy again with your arguments that's always aimless shey?
What exactly do you want to know from these questions since you can see that the literal tribes of Israel aren't the same mentioned in the Bible book of Revelation 7:4-8?
Ọmọ if you have something tangible to say better go ahead and say it i'm not interested in this your stupid questioning that's of no sense!

You were the one claiming figurative children of Israel. I now asked you just two simple questions and you can't speak the truth about what you've been taught as the answer!

1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

TenQ:

It was a simple and direct question!

Have you noted that they have never been called 12 tribes of Jacob but 12 tribes of Israel?

Israel is the name God gave to Jacob in Genesis 32 vs 22 - 32

TenQ:

You were the one claiming figurative children of Israel. I now asked you just two simple questions and you can't speak the truth about what you've been taught as the answer!
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

Hold onto what you're being taught there's no need arguing aimlessly!

MaxInDHouse:

Hold onto what you're being taught there's no need arguing aimlessly!

Just like Muslims, when they are cornered, they kick up dust of tantrums.

Simple questions;

1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?


It conflicts with his memory Verses

Kobojunkie:
Israel is the name God gave to Jacob in Genesis 32 vs 22 - 32

That was not the question Bro!

1. About the 144,000 persons in Revelation: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons in Revelation: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?
Hold onto

TenQ:

Just like Muslims, when they are cornered, they kick up dust of tantrums.
Simple questions;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?
It conflicts with his memory Verses

The funny thing about you is anticipating what someone believe just to criticize when you're empty regarding the topic of discussion, i have delivered what i know and the ones who noticed facts have gained something, if you don't agree all you need to do is present what you know and allow followers to use their God's given brains to decipher.

For your information Kumuyi, Adeboye, Oyedepo, Oyakilome, Oritsejafor, Olukoya and many more are out there you can go and ask them why John saw something difference from the normal tribes of Israel, it's not compulsory that what i was taught must be in agreement with what you were taught, that's not how things is it's either we agree as worshipers of the same God or disagree as worshipers of different gods.
If all those aforementioned are worshiping the same god their line of thought would have been in agreement and they wouldn't have had separate teachings leading to different sects!

TenQ:

That was not the question Bro!

1. About the 144,000 persons in Revelation: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons in Revelation: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?
Hold onto

According to John, the figure is as stated, 12000 people from each of the 12 different tribes listed by him.

Why, is there a reason to doubt the figure?

Kobojunkie:
According to John, the figure is as stated, 12000 people from each of the 12 different tribes listed by him.

Why, is there a reason to doubt the figure?

I wanted to know if the figures were literal or figurative.

At the same time, I want to find out if the people mentioned in the book of revelation were literal people or figurative.

Thanks

MaxInDHouse:


The funny thing about you is anticipating what someone believe just to criticize when you're empty regarding the topic of discussion, i have delivered what i know and the ones who noticed facts have gained something, if you don't agree all you need to do is present what you know and allow followers to use their God's given brains to decipher.

For your information Kumuyi, Adeboye, Oyedepo, Oyakilome, Oritsejafor, Olukoya and many more are out there you can go and ask them why John saw something difference from the normal tribes of Israel, it's not compulsory that what i was taught must be in agreement with what you were taught, that's not how things is it's either we agree as worshipers of the same God or disagree as worshipers of different gods.
If all those aforementioned are worshiping the same god their line of thought would have been in agreement and they wouldn't have had separate teachings leading to different sects!

Why is it difficult for you to respond to simple question. The righteous are as bold as a lion.
Simple questions;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

TenQ:
I wanted to know if the figures were literal or figurative.

At the same time, I want to find out if the people mentioned in the book of revelation were literal people or figurative.

Thanks

There are no other records in scripture to refute his claim so it is possibly an exact number. From the much revealed by the Prophets, we know that

■ God promised to send out prophets to His own from among their brethren, so it makes sense that all those sealed by God would be of the stock of Israel
■ God also promised that He would send these special people out to bring back the lost sheep of israel from every tongue, every tribe and every nation in the world. So, the number, 144,000 also meets the some specification

Kobojunkie:
There are no other records in scripture to refute his claim so it is possibly an exact number. From the much revealed by the Prophets, we know that

■ God promised to send out prophets to His own from among their brethren, so it makes sense that all those sealed by God would be of the stock of Israel
■ God also promised that He would send these special people out to bring back the lost sheep of israel from every tongue, every tribe and every nation in the world. So, the number, 144,000 also meets the some specification

Am I correct to assume that your position for the two questions posed was LITERAL!?

Literal People from the tribes of Israel
Literal number 12,000 per tribe!

Am I correct?

Kobojunkie:
According to John, the figure is as stated, 12000 people from each of the 12 different tribes listed by him.
Why, is there a reason to doubt the figure?

According to John the baptist if the Jews failed to exercise faith in God's plan for salvation God will pick people from other nations to fulfill what He promised Abraham! Matthew 3:9
Later Jesus told Jews that God has condemned their race {Matthew 21:43} only to pick few faithful once among them to fulfill the promises to Abraham!
Jesus told us an illustration that shows the bad condition Jews will later find themselves since they rejected God's prophets and finally the Messiah! Matthew 22:1-14
So the Jews will have double portion in the slot while all other races have few that's why the figurative Joseph had two portions, he will get a portion in his own generation (the first century Jews) who accepted Christ like twelve apostles and first century Jewish disciples of Christ and in the last days some Jews will later be chosen as part of the 144,000.
That's why the figurative twelve tribes Joseph has a slot and one of his sons (Manasseh) also had a slot, this means it's not all Israelites that will partake in the final selection just as other tribes of Israel are lost while few are remaining within the boarders of modern day Israel.
Dan's slot is missing, this means it's not from all races where faithful people are found that God will anoint brothers for Christ.

That's the sacred secret behind what John saw in the Bible book of Revelation 7:4-8

MaxInDHouse:

According to John the baptist if the Jews failed to exercise faith in God's plan for salvation God will pick people from other nations to fulfill what He promised Abraham! Matthew 3:9
Later Jesus told Jews that God has condemned their race {Matthew 21:43} only to pick few faithful once among them to fulfill the promises to Abraham!
Jesus told us an illustration that shows the bad condition Jews will later find themselves since they rejected God's prophets and finally the Messiah! Matthew 22:1-14
So the Jews will have double portion in the slot while all other races have few that's why the figurative Joseph had two portions, he will get a portion in his own generation (the first century Jews) who accepted Christ like twelve apostles and first century Jewish disciples of Christ and in the last days some Jews will later be chosen as part of the 144,000.
That's why the figurative twelve tribes Joseph has a slot and one of his sons (Manasseh) also had a slot, this means it's not all Israelites that will partake in the final selection just as other tribes of Israel are lost while few are remaining within the boarders of modern day Israel.
Dan's slot is missing, this means it's not from all races where faithful people are found that God will anoint brothers for Christ.

That's the sacred secret behind what John saw in the Bible book of Revelation 7:4-8

When it was Jesus turn to ask the Pharisees His own question, they had to keep quiet!

Simple questions;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

TenQ:

Am I correct to assume that your position for the two questions posed was LITERAL!?

Literal People from the tribes of Israel
Literal number 12,000 per tribe!

Am I correct?

When you say literal are you somehow saying John's claim is God's Truth in this? If yes, I don't know of that since there's only one witness to this claim. However, if your question is whether John meant that the number he saw is as written, then my answer is yes, since it was after all his dream/vision.

---

God absolutely had no expectations of the Jewish people in this - He knew from even before the people that as a people they would refuse to obey Him yet He chose them anyways and made it abundantly clear to them that His choice had nothing to to with any ideas of goodness in them. He even explained to them right in the Law He gave to them His plan to scatter them to the ends of the world over time, a cursed people for their disobedience of Him, promising to bring them back at the end when they are finally ready for Him to.

To then insist that God later changed His mind about the same Israel who He chose - they didn't choose Him, He did- because they did exactly that which He knew they would from the beginning is ludicrous.

TenQ:

When it was Jesus turn to ask the Pharisees His own question, they had to keep quiet!
Simple questions;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

Go and ask your pastors since i'm not your teacher. I've told you that if you have an idea present it for everyone that's what Jesus did when Pharisees challenged him i never quoted you again since you're always asking but never presenting anything.
Jesus is the one presenting just as i'm doing while Pharisees are the ones asking him questions without presenting their own opinion just as you're doing!

Kobojunkie:
When you say literal are you somehow saying John's claim is God's Truth in this? If yes, I don't know of that since there's only one witness to this claim. However, if your question is whether John meant that the number he saw is as written, then my answer is yes, since it was after all his dream/vision.

---

God absolutely had no expectations of the Jewish people in this - He knew from even before the people that as a people they would refuse to obey Him yet He chose them anyways and made it abundantly clear to them that His choice had nothing to to with any ideas of goodness in them. He even explained to them right in the Law He gave to them His plan to scatter them to the ends of the world over time, a cursed people for their disobedience of Him, promising to bring them back at the end when they are finally ready for Him to.
To then insist that God later changed His mind about the same Israel because they did exactly that which He knew they would from the beginning is ludicrous.

The funniest thing about faithless people like you is saying things you feel out of assumption for God without considering His own WORDS!

God told the Israelites:

Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me Exodus 19:5

But did they keep His covenant?

They are the ones who have acted corruptly. They are not his children, the defect is their own. They are a crooked and twisted generation! Deuteronomy 32:5

So God promised to write His laws in the hearts of those who love Him:

It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.” Jeremiah 31:32

And only few Israelites responded so Jesus made them his friends:

No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends. You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you. I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master does. But I have called you friends, because I have made known to you all the things I have heard from my Father. John 15:13-15

So will Jesus' sacrificial death benefits everyone or only his friends?

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. Look! Your house is abandoned to you! Matthew 23:37-38

He came to his own home, but his own people did not accept him. However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name. John 1:11-12

No wonder he told the Israelites:

This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. Matthew 21:43

I know you're bitter that only JWs can prove all these things scripturally and you're not ready to bow to any group but it's OK, just know the truth and choose whatever you want to do it's your life! Joshua 24:14

Let's a close look at God's very Words in His Covenant to the people of Israel.

A. God's choice of Israel had nothing to do with Israel's goodness, nor did it have anything to do with a belief that Israel would obey God. From the beginning, God knew the Israelites would not obey Him, and He was certain of this before He chose them. He knew them to be the worst of all people but He still chose them since it didn't matter to His plan that they would not obey Him at all.

1. “Listen, you Israelites! You will go across the Jordan River today. You will go into that land to force out nations greater and stronger than you. Their cities are big and have walls as high as the sky!
2 The people there are tall and strong. They are the Anakites. You know about them. You heard our spies say, ‘No one can win against the Anakites.’
3 But you can be sure that it is the Lord your God who goes across the river before you—and God is like a fire that destroys! He will destroy those nations and make them fall before you. You will force those nations out and quickly destroy them. The Lord has promised you that this will happen.
4 “The Lord your God will force those nations out for you. But don’t say to yourselves, ‘The Lord brought us to live in this land because we are such good people.’ No, the Lord forced those nations out because they were evil, not because you were good.
5 You are going in to take their land, but not because you are good and live right. You are going in, and the Lord your God is forcing those people out because of the evil way they lived. And the Lord wants to keep the promise he made to your ancestors, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
6 The Lord your God is giving you that good land to live in, but you should know that it is not because you are good. The truth is that you are very stubborn people! - Deuteronomy 9 vs 1 - 6

B. God stated in His Law that He would severely punish the Israelites for their stubbornness, promising to empty out their cities so the land could get the rest it needed, for as long as they continued as they were.

27 “If you still refuse to listen to me, and if you still turn against me,
28 then I will really show my anger! I—yes, I myself—will punish you seven times for your sins.
29 You will become so hungry that you will eat the bodies of your sons and daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places. I will cut down your incense altars. I will put your dead bodies on the dead bodies of your idols. You will be disgusting to me.
31 I will destroy your cities. I will make your holy places empty. I will stop smelling your offerings.
32 I will make your land empty. And your enemies who come to live there will be shocked at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations. I will pull out my sword and destroy you. Your land will become empty, and your cities will be destroyed.
34 “You will be taken to your enemy’s country. Your country will be empty. So your land will finally get its rest. The land will enjoy its time of rest.
35 During the time that the land is empty, it will get the time of rest that you did not give it while you lived there.
36 The survivors will lose their courage in the land of their enemies. They will be afraid of everything. They will run around like a leaf blown by the wind. They will run as if someone is chasing them with a sword. They will fall even when no one is chasing them.
37 They will run as if someone is chasing them with a sword. They will fall over each other—even when no one is chasing them.“You will not be strong enough to stand up against your enemies.
38 You will be lost in other nations. You will disappear in the land of your enemies.
39 So the survivors will rot away in their sin in their enemies’ countries. They will rot away in their sins just as their ancestors did. - Leviticus 26 vs 34 - 39

C. God proclaimed that He would scatter the seeds of Israel among the nations for their disobedience of His Law.

23 You must be careful not to forget the agreement that the Lord your God made with you. You must obey the Lord’s command. Don’t make any idols in any form,
24 because the Lord your God hates for his people to worship other gods. And he can be like a fire that destroys!
25 “You will live in the country a long time. You will have children and grandchildren there. After all that time, be sure that you do not then ruin your lives by making any kind of idol! That is something the Lord your God considers evil, and it would make him very angry!
26 So I am warning you now. Heaven and earth are my witnesses! If you do such an evil thing, you will quickly be destroyed! You are crossing the Jordan River now to take that land. But if you make any idols, you will not live there very long. No, you will be destroyed completely!
27 The Lord will scatter you among the nations. And only a few of you will be left alive to go to the countries where the Lord will send you.
28 There you will serve gods made by men—things made of wood and stone that cannot see or hear or eat or smell!
29 But there in these other lands you will look for the Lord your God. And if you look for him with all your heart and soul, you will find him.
30 When you are in trouble—when all these things happen to you—then you will come back to the Lord your God and obey him.
31 The Lord your God is a merciful God! He will not leave you there or destroy you completely. He will not forget the agreement that he made with your ancestors. - Deuteronomy 23 - 31

D. God promised He would scatter them for their disobedience among all the people of the world - from one end of the earth to the other - and they would have no peace among these nations, no place to rest, their minds filled with worry, eyes feeling tired and their hearts fill with frustration.

63 “The Lord was happy to be good to you and to make your nation grow. In the same way the Lord will be happy to ruin and destroy you. You are going to take that land to be yours. But people will take you out of that land!
64 The Lord will scatter you among all the people in the world. He will scatter you from one end of the earth to the other. There you will serve false gods made of wood and stone. They are false gods that you or your ancestors never worshiped.
65 “You will not have any peace among these nations. You will have no place to rest. The Lord will fill your mind with worry. Your eyes will feel tired. You will be very upset.
66 You will live with danger and always be afraid. You will be afraid night and day. You will never feel sure about your life.
67 In the morning you will say, ‘I wish it were evening!’ In the evening you will say, ‘I wish it were morning!’ This will happen because of the fear in your heart and the terrible things you will see.
68 The Lord will send you back to Egypt in ships. I said you would never have to go to that place again, but he will send you there. In Egypt you will try to sell yourselves as slaves to your enemies, but no one will buy you.” - Deuteronomy 28 vs 63 - 68

E. God will cause all those who were scattered to be returned back to the Land of Canaan.

1. “Everything that I have mentioned will happen to you—both the blessings and the curses. And you will remember these words when the Lord your God sends you away to other nations.
2 Then you and your descendants will turn back to the Lord your God. You will follow him with all your heart and completely obey all his commands that I have given you today.
3 Then the Lord your God will be kind to you. The Lord your God will make you free again! He will bring you back from the nations where he sent you.
4 Even if you were sent to the farthest parts of the earth, the Lord your God will gather you from there and bring you back.
5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land your ancestors had, and the land will become yours. He will do good to you, and you will have more than your ancestors had. You will have more people in your nation than they ever had.
6 The Lord your God will make you and your descendants want to obey him.[a] Then you will love the Lord your God with all your heart. And you will live! - Deuteronomy 30 vs 1 - 6

All the above details and more is contained right there in the Old Covenant Law of Moses. God's plan from the beginning seemed to include placing a curse on Israel that would eventually result in Israel being scattered and those scattered bought and returned back to Him a Holy people at the end. So all the judgments against Israel, as declared through the prophets were as stated in the Old Law of Moses, to confirm that God had indeed known of it all from even before the beginning as He had planned.

Kobojunkie:

From the beginning, God knew the Israelites would not obey Him, and He was certain of this before He chose them. He knew them to be the worst of all people but He still chose them since it didn't matter to His plan that they would not obey Him at all

Just a scripture to back up this assumption!

God never promised Israelites that His covenant will continue with them if they lack faith in Him!

The words at Exodus 19:5 settles that when He said:

Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me!

They will continue being God's choice if they will strictly obey God's voice and keep His covenant.

So stop deceiving yourself young woman!

But God NEVER EVER stated that if Israel does not obey Him that He would cancel the Covenant He made with Israel. Nor does God ever state that He would disown Israel for another. God never stated that He would break or nullify the Covenant He voluntarily made with the people of Israel. Recall, that God was the one who proposed this Covenant with Israel to begin with. The people didn't ask or beg Him in any way for it. God Himself choose the people and instituted the Covenant without even asking for the people's consent.

Instead what God said was that if Israel refused to obey His Law and keep His commandments, He would curse Israel, Scatter them all over, then at the right time gather them back after He had purified them and make of them the Nation He desired them to be for Him. That is essentially the gist of what had planned for Israel from the beginning.

And as stated in Isaiah 46...

8 “Sinners, change your heart and mind. Think about this again. Remember it and be strong.
9 Remember what happened long ago. Remember, I am God and there is no other God. There is no other like me.
10 “In the beginning, I told you what would happen in the end. A long time ago, I told you things that have not happened yet. When I plan something, it happens. I do whatever I want to do.
11 I am calling a man from the east to do what I want. He will come like an eagle from a faraway country. He will do all that I have planned. Everything I said will happen just as I said it would.
12 “Listen to me, you stubborn people! You are far from doing what is right.
13 But I am close to making things right. Salvation will not be delayed much longer. I will bring salvation to Zion and to my wonderful Israel.” - Isaiah 46 vs 8 - 13

... God revealed His plan regarding Israel right there in the Law which He had given them.

So insisting that God changed His mind about Israel is meaningless, ludicrous and ridiculousness.

Kobojunkie:

God NEVER EVER stated that if Israel does not obey Him that He would cancel the Covenant He made with Israel, Nor does God ever state that He would disown Israel for another.

This is what God told them from the mouth of the same prophet (Moses) whom God used to bring them out of Egypt:

I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus is that prophet who came in the manner of Moses {Act 3:22} and Jesus taught them so many things in the name of the God of Israel {John 17:6} but only few Jews accepted what he said so in line with what God had said Jesus only prayed for those who accepted his message {John 17:8-9} and declared that the nation as a whole has been CONDEMNED! Matthew 21:43

This is the prophet God promised to send to the Israelites as the final prophet which they must listen to but since the nation rejected him, persecuted and killed his representatives in their midst {Matthew 23:33-36} so that nation has lost it as God's chosen people!

After the destruction of Jerusalem the God of Israel who no longer speak with anyone except through His only begotten Son {Hebrews 1:1-2} has no business with Israel again and the son only comes in the midst of those gathering in his name {Matthew 18:20} no longer will Jerusalem continue to be a Holy place where God's blessings will be! John 4:20-24

Again, God NEVER EVER stated that if Israel does not obey Him that He would cancel the Covenant He made with Israel. Nor does God ever state that He would disown Israel for another. God never stated that He would break or nullify the Covenant He voluntarily made with the people of Israel. Recall, that God was the one who proposed this Covenant with Israel to begin with. The people of Israel didn't ask or beg God in any way for the Covenant which He gave to them. God didn't inquire as to whether they wanted Him for their God, or not, nor did He ask their opinion on the matter. NO! God Himself chose the people of Israel, and instituted a Covenant with them without minding whether the people of Israel consented to it or not.

Instead what God said was that if Israel refused to obey His Law and keep His commandments, He would curse Israel, Scatter them all over, then at the right time gather them back after He had purified them and make of them the Nation He desired them to be for Him. That is essentially the gist of what had planned for Israel from the beginning.

And as stated in Isaiah 46...

8 “Sinners, change your heart and mind. Think about this again. Remember it and be strong.
9 Remember what happened long ago. Remember, I am God and there is no other God. There is no other like me.
10 “In the beginning, I told you what would happen in the end. A long time ago, I told you things that have not happened yet. When I plan something, it happens. I do whatever I want to do.
11 I am calling a man from the east to do what I want. He will come like an eagle from a faraway country. He will do all that I have planned. Everything I said will happen just as I said it would.
12 “Listen to me, you stubborn people! You are far from doing what is right.
13 But I am close to making things right. Salvation will not be delayed much longer. I will bring salvation to Zion and to my wonderful Israel.” - Isaiah 46 vs 8 - 13

... God revealed His plan regarding Israel right there in the Law which He had given them.

So insisting that God changed His mind about Israel without evidence of God ever infact doing so is meaningless, ludicrous and utter ridiculousness.

Kobojunkie:
Again, God NEVER EVER stated that if Israel does not obey Him that He would cancel the Covenant He made with Israel. Nor does God ever state that He would disown Israel for another. God never stated that He would break or nullify the Covenant He voluntarily made with the people of Israel. Recall, that God was the one who proposed this Covenant with Israel to begin with. The people didn't ask or beg Him in any way for it. God Himself choose the people and instituted the Covenant without even asking for the people's consent.

Instead what God said was that if Israel refused to obey His Law and keep His commandments, He would curse Israel, Scatter them all over, then at the right time gather them back after He had purified them and make of them the Nation He desired them to be for Him. That is essentially the gist of what had planned for Israel from the beginning.

And as stated in Isaiah 46...
... God revealed His plan regarding Israel right there in the Law which He had given them.

So insisting that God changed His mind about Israel without evidence of God ever infact doing so is meaningless, ludicrous and utter ridiculousness.

God is no man's family, He chose Abraham and promised that through his SEED all the families of the earth will be blessed {Genesis 12:1-3} the promise was traced through that lineage to Jesus Christ who is the promised SEED {Galatians 3:16} who is just one person Jesus Christ! Matthew 1:1-16

It's not the whole nation that God has in mind for His promises of blessings rather it's only those connected to Christ {John 1:11-12} so since the nation as a whole has rejected Christ saying:

“Let his blood come upon us and upon our children.” Matthew 27:25

God has CONDEMNED that nation and chosen another nation producing the fruit of faith in Christ Jesus! Matthew 21:43

I'm not responding so that you may agree but for other followers who may think natural Jews are still God's chosen people! Romans 2:25-29

MaxInDHouse:

Go and ask your pastors since i'm not your teacher. I've told you that if you have an idea present it for everyone that's what Jesus did when Pharisees challenged him i never quoted you again since you're always asking but never presenting anything.
Jesus is the one presenting just as i'm doing while Pharisees are the ones asking him questions without presenting their own opinion just as you're doing!

Mat 22:17-21:
"Tell us therefore, What think you? Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt you me, you hypocrites? Show me the tribute money. And they brought to him a penny. And he said to them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say to him, Caesar's. Then said he to them, Render therefore to Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's. When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left him, and went their way."

See finishing by Master JESUS!?


That is exactly why you cannot answer the two simple questions! Are you ALSO going away like you fellow brothers!?


Simple questions;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

TenQ:

Mat 22:17-21:
"Tell us therefore, What think you? Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt you me, you hypocrites? Show me the tribute money. And they brought to him a penny. And he said to them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say to him, Caesar's. Then said he to them, Render therefore to Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's. When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left him, and went their way."
See finishing by Master JESUS!?
That is exactly why you cannot answer the two simple questions! Are you ALSO going away like you fellow brothers!?
Simple questions;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

Go and meet your pastors they will TEACH you, my own pastors taught me this things so there's no wahala!

MaxInDHouse:


Go and meet your pastors they will TEACH you, my own pastors taught me this things so there's no wahala!

That's why like the Pharisees, you have no answers!

TenQ:

That's why like the Pharisees, you have no answers!

Jesus never went arguing with Pharisees rather it's Pharisees that's stalking Jesus just as you're doing now.
The other guy asked me a question and i answered but since you're not teachable i will direct you to go and meet your pastors!