Since nobody would do so, I’ve decided to play the “Kevin Samuels” role in Nairaland: Speaking inconvenient truths.

I hate sounding like a broken record, but due to the type of topics (mostly lamentations and complaints about cheating spouses) we see in Nairaland these days, it would be irresponsible not to say something.
People moan and mourn, but they still say nothing and hope that things somehow change for the better. Nothing will change until you embrace the truth!

Since we no longer have community-led social upbringing, Nairaland can be that community that teaches younger adults inconvenient TRUTHS about life, to help them avoid troubles that adults know all too well about.

Okay here we go!

Point#1:

Marriage is NOT for everyone. Duh!
It is perfectly okay not to marry.

This notion that there is a husband for every woman, or a wife for every man is a LIE from ....

In the olden days (precolonial) when TRUTH reigned in our part of Africa, A LOT of people stayed single LIFE-LONG.

For example, on my father’s side of the family, my great grandfather had 4 other brothers; i.e they were five brothers in all. Only two (2) of them got married.
Three stayed single till they died in old age.
And it was all NORMAL.
Nobody hounded them to get married. Disclosure though: Four had converted to Christianity, but three of them never married. BUT Christianity is not why they never married, because the fourth one of them had converted to Christianity too, got married and had children. The first of them who was my great grandfather (who never converted to Christianity) got married to three women (one of which he inherited from his father as the first son). But let me not digress there.

The point is that it was perfectly normal to stay single in those days.

And the MEN who never married simply never got shares in the family landed properties after they died. EOD.
Some women never married either. Some of such women had children in their father’s houses and raised them there. In fact in a certain family in my village, the only surviving male in that family is a child born at home by a woman who never got married. Other males had died there. Again let me not digress there.
Some women never had children and died childless.
And it was all normal.
Therefore this notion that everyone must (or should) marry is totally alien to us in Africa.
Our society functioned regardless of marriage.

Next point is closely related to the first point:

Point#2:

Find out about the REAL sex-drive of the person you are planning to marry. E get why.

Sex is gradually destroying our society and people keep complicating things by bringing religion into it.

Hear this now: ALL MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL WHEN IT COMES TO SEX.
And it is all NATURAL.

But you are not entirely powerless about the situation. You can make it your duty to test, probe, investigate and essentially do all you can to find out your future wife or husband’s TRUE sex-drive BEFORE tying the knot. Do this to avoid crying later…

Once you find out that information, proceed with your next line of action; i,e. deciding whether to marry that person or not.
It is perfectly okay not to marry a person based on differences in sex-drives alone. In fact I STRONGLY advise not marrying a person who is not sexually compatible with you!
Enuff said there.

This is CRITICALLY important because, having a spouse with a mismatched sex drive is not like having a troublesome child or deviant child that disturbs society. A deviant child -if he or she becomes to much trouble – can be sent to jail or reformatory depending on his crime. And society is thus spared.

How do you deal with a deviant wife who sleeps with every man in the community?
Or a deviant husband who sleeps with every woman in the community?
Kill them?
You commit murder and get hanged by law. If you are not caught in the killing, you become a murderer and (according to Igbo spirituality) the crime follows you to your next incarnation whether you believe it or not. In Igbo spiritualism (I don’t know about others) there is no excuse or acceptable reason for KILLING.
So, why kill because of a randy spouse?

Your most reasonable solution to such problem is AVOIDANCE/PREVENTION. Far better than “cure”! You can divorce too if you are already in such a marriage, but divorces leave dirty trails and can be unpredictable. I don’t like divorces. So, PREVENT INSTEAD.

If you are a man that cannot share your spouse sexually with anyone, then NEVER EVER marry a woman with high sex drive, because even if you have a high sex drive too, you can never really catch up with her. Even if she has all these other qualities, please avoid marrying her for the sake of societal peace and harmony.
Meanwhile there are men out there who never mind their wives dating other men, and it works for them. Same applies to a woman.
NEVER marry a man with HIGH sex drive that you cannot share. People hate to hear that word “sharing” but it is a fact of life.

That is why one must never look into other people’s marriages, because only the couples themselves understand their marriage! In Igboland we say “never tell an old woman to close her legs, because you don’t know from where she breathes!”.

More to come in comments!

Kindly continue

Following...

CrownedPhoenix:
Kindly continue

Following...

The message has been carefully articulated in the OP.
You can identify the part you agree with, and challenge the part you don't agree with.
The gist of it all hinges on these two core points:
(1) Marriage is not for everyone
(2) Sexual compatibility is a critical factor in marriage.

Both points are deep and verse. ..

That is why marriage should not be approached carelessly.
These days, people simply dabble into marriage because they saw others marry.
It shouldn't be so.
You must WANT TO MARRY.
Getting married is a conscious and ACTIVE process (not a passive one).
Your spouse should be sexually compatible with you, or else, trouble lies ahead...
That is why doing spiritual work BEFORE (and even during) marriage is important.

Igbo culture does not represent Nigeria culture....


In Yoruba land....a woman that did not get married cannot have an illegitimate child and raised such in her father's house.........such a child go hear am........na Omo ale (bastard)...


Absolutely, you can stay unmarried and still fantastic.........


Those that married with no child has family support at all times.

kazyhm:
Igbo culture does not represent Nigeria culture....


In Yoruba land....a woman that did not get married cannot have an illegitimate child and raised such in her father's house.........such a child go hear am........na Omo ale (bastard)...


Absolutely, you can stay unmarried and still fantastic.........


Those that married with no child has family support at all times.

@First bolded words: I never said that Igbo culture represents ALL Nigerian culture. Igbo culture and its associates in the East however represent about 30 -40 % of Nigeria's culture. A HEFTY percentage by any standards.
But that is not why I often cite Igbo culture in marriage and sex matters. I'll get to that in a minute...

@Second bolded words: I cite Igbo culture because it is a very RICH and STABLE culture in its original form: i.e before it was "modified" (i'd say adulterated) by other cultures that are clearly not as well grounded as Igbo culture.

Not wanting this to turn into tribalism, but I would argue that the fact that your culture labeled a child born out of marriage "Omo ale", doesn't really solve the "problem". It only tags (and hence vilifies by appellation), children that will continue to be born that way in your land till the end of time. Did naming such children derogatorily stop unmarried women from having sex and having children without marriage?
I guess NOPE.

The Igbo had no such word because the Igbo ancestors were more honest about the "problem", and found a way to institutionalize it for societal cohesion and peace. In Igboland today among the ignorant(due to that adulteration), you hear the word "bastard" sometimes used against someone behind his back. Is "bastard" an Igbo word? Nope.
Like I said in the OP, in a certain family in my village, the only surviving MALE child in that family is a man that would be called "Omo ale" in your land. If not for him, that family's name would have been lost forever because all the "legitimate" male children died.
He is now married with 4 children: two males and two females. Family name survives.
Would you now call his family "Omo ale" family?
The ancient Igbo were more realistic.
Some of us still believe that the current Igbo society is inferior to the ancestral one, because it has been adulterated because of Nigeria.
To each his own, I guess.

..
The proverb in the last paragraph got me cracking up..
Food 4 thought tho.

onumadu:


@First bolded words: I never said that Igbo culture represents ALL Nigerian culture. Igbo culture and its associates in the East however represent about 30 -40 % of Nigeria's culture. A HEFTY percentage by any standards.
But that is not why I often cite Igbo culture in marriage and sex matters. I'll get to that in a minute...

@Second bolded words: I cite Igbo culture because it is a very RICH and STABLE culture in its original form: i.e before it was "modified" (i'd say adulterated) by other cultures that are clearly not as well grounded as Igbo culture.

Not wanting this to turn into tribalism, but I would argue that the fact that your culture labeled a child born out of marriage "Omo ale", doesn't really solve the "problem". It only tags (and hence vilifies by appellation), children that will continue to be born that way in your land till the end of time. Did naming such children derogatorily stop unmarried women from having sex and having children without marriage?
I guess NOPE.

The Igbo had no such word because the Igbo ancestors were more honest about the "problem", and found a way to institutionalize it for societal cohesion and peace. In Igboland today among the ignorant(due to that adulteration), you hear the word "bastard" sometimes used against someone behind his back. Is "bastard" an Igbo word? Nope.
Like I said in the OP, in a certain family in my village, the only surviving MALE child in that family is a man that would be called "Omo ale" in your land. If not for him, that family's name would have been lost forever because all the "legitimate" male children died.
He is now married with 4 children: two males and two females. Family name survives.
Would you now call his family "Omo ale" family?
The ancient Igbo were more realistic.
Some of us still believe that the current Igbo society is inferior to the ancestral one, because it has been adulterated because of Nigeria.
To each his own, I guess.

You're missing the point of some ethical practices in culture and custom...........
In Yoruba culture, you'll bear your father's name whether he married your mother legally or not...or she your father's baby mama.

And if your mother is from a royal family you can't be a heir to the throne.. .........but you are entitle to everything from your father inheritance....to the extent of being an heir to the throne if your father is from a royal family.

And cultural beliefs in the west differs from the east in a lot of ways and approaches...Yoruba never really differentiate female child from male in term of rights, inheritance etc....so family house is never empty due to lack of a male child.

But then.... promiscuity is common everywhere.....and trying to curb or discourage it is what necessitated some cultural and moral measures not that they are running away from the truth as you alluded.

kazyhm:


You're missing the point of some ethical practices in culture and custom...........
In Yoruba culture, you'll bear your father's name whether he married your mother legally or not...or she your father's baby mama.

And if your mother is from a royal family you can't be a heir to the throne.. .........but you are entitle to everything from your father inheritance....to the extent of being an heir to the throne if your father is from a royal family.

And cultural beliefs in the west differs from the east in a lot of ways and approaches...Yoruba never really differentiate female child from male in term of rights, inheritance etc....so family house is never empty due to lack of a male child.

But then.... promiscuity is common everywhere.....and trying to curb or discourage it is what necessitated some cultural and moral measures not that they are running away from the truth as you alluded.

@First bolded
So, if one is entitled to everything from one's biological father's family line, why then does such a person get labelled "Omo ale"?
Since I'm not Yoruba, could you please explain this "Omo ale" tag better?
All I know is that it is a very bad tag.
The one Yoruba proverb I learned from here in Nairaland is that "if a family is at peace, it means that the bastard child in that family has not grown up"
Now, tell me how such a family can ever have peace with people bearing such tag.
In fact, how can an "Omo ale" inherit the throne if his father was a king?
You see why the Igbo avoided such tags?

As for the second bolded...
promiscuity was also frowned upon in ancient Igboland, but they organized society in such a way that only a very very bad and deviant person would go afoul of the traditional law. Hence rape was very rare, and strongly dealt with. You had absolutely no reason to rape a woman in that tradition.
Sex was made available (through various institutionalization) that one has to be very bad to go outside of those established institutions of sex and marriage.
No adult was starving of sex; hence any "unlawful sex" was STRONGLY condemned and called "Alu" or "Aru" which means an ABOMINATION.

onumadu:

Point#1:

Marriage is NOT for everyone. Duh!
It is perfectly okay not to marry.

This notion that there is a husband for every woman, or a wife for every man is a LIE from ....

While this is True, it is however watered down by the fact that we see the faces of those who are supposed to be married vis a vis those who are not supposed to be married.

And those who are supposed to be married are greatly more than those who are not, hence the sayings of the people.

Dtruthspeaker:


While this is True, it is however watered down by the fact that we see the faces of those who are supposed to be married vis a vis those who are not supposed to be married.

And those who are supposed to be married are greatly more than those who are not, hence the sayings of the people.

Fair point.. but ...who are the "we"? lol
A marriage decision should be purely personal. Society should not be getting involved provided that no minor is involved.
The only thing society should engage in is to lay down norms and traditional laws: Nothing more.
Society should not really shame , hound, pressure, or otherwise manipulate someone into entering any marriage relationship.
That is how a lot of people enter bad marriages when they had no business marrying in the first place.
Society should also not get involved when ADULTS are deciding whether to marry or the type of NATURAL marriage they can enter.
As for those who want to marry but cannot find spouses, they should be willing to share husband.
It is called polygyny and perfectly natural.
That is why the people condemning Yul Edochie are clueless IMHO.

onumadu:


@First bolded
So, if one is entitled to everything from one's biological father's family line, why then does such a person get labelled "Omo ale"?
Since I'm not Yoruba, could you please explain this "Omo ale" tag better?
All I know is that it is a very bad tag.
The one Yoruba proverb I learned from here in Nairaland is that "if a family is at peace, it means that the bastard child in that family has not grown up"
Now, tell me how such a family can ever have peace with people bearing such tag.
In fact, how can an "Omo ale" inherit the throne if his father was a king?
You see why the Igbo avoided such tags?

As for the second bolded...
promiscuity was also frowned upon in ancient Igboland, but they organized society in such a way that only a very very bad and deviant person would go afoul of the traditional law. Hence rape was very rare, and strongly dealt with. You had absolutely no reason to rape a woman in that tradition.
Sex was made available (through various institutionalization) that one has to be very bad to go outside of those established institutions of sex and marriage.
No adult was starving of sex; hence any "unlawful sex" was STRONGLY condemned and called "Alu" or "Aru" which means an ABOMINATION.

Omo means a child, ale means a concubine

So Omo-Ale is a child birth as a consequence of illegal or extramarital affairs.....contextually, it is not correct to refers to Omo ale as a tag...it is the situation of birth of a member of a family..... not that you can just pick up a family member and tag him/her Omo ale.......


That been said...the Easter practices whereby bride price is return or because some rite were not done or done properly etc whatever the situation might be.....which in almost all the case; the bride/ girl's family will inherit child(ren) by such union and child(ren) adopting the wife's family name is alien to Yoruba culture......

If a boy/guy impregnate or a girl got pregnant for a boy/guy.......the child is not an Omo ale per sey......because he/she has a recognizable father...either deadbeat or livebeat.......and such a child adopt his/her father's name.

Omo-Ale is a child birth as a result/consequences of an unwanted pregnancy either through extramarital affairs or promiscuity behavior of a single lady/girl.....and the pregnant girl/mother does not know or cannot pinpoint who is responsible.....such a child can not escape being refers to as Omo ale......and the mother is refers to as Adele mosuu......most especially when it comes to right, privileges and inheritance.... further more, if such a child's excesses is too much, he/she can be banned or expell from the family..........though, family members do accomodates such child(ren) on compassionate ground for the erring girl/lady or for the innocent child(ren)

A divorced lady is refers to as Adele-bo.... Irrespective whether the union produced a child or not.

Yoruba has a cultural moral discipline.....that does not create room for sex.......even to an unmarried adult......sex and children are only condone within marriage.........but if.....you loose guard to an extent to that you got pregnant...and has the fortitude to go the whole hug to have the baby.......you and your child will be yab sooner or later.....as a child, people will narrate your story......and it is shameful and painful.......

onumadu:

Fair point.. but ...who are the "we"? lol
A marriage decision should be purely personal. ..

In the end you now came to spew your evil product. Well only those who love evil and death will buy it.

kazyhm:


If a boy/guy impregnate or a girl got pregnant for a boy/guy.......the child is not an Omo ale per sey......because he/she has a recognizable father...either deadbeat or livebeat.......and such a child adopt his/her father's name.

Omo-Ale is a child birth as a result/consequences of an unwanted pregnancy either through extramarital affairs or promiscuity behavior of a single lady/girl.....and the pregnant girl/mother does not know or cannot pinpoint who is responsible.....such a child can not escape being refers to as Omo ale.....

So, if a boy impregnates a GIRL, it is not Omo ale? But if the same boy impregnates a single working class WOMAN (you do know that teenage boys can impregnate women in their forties, do you?), then that child becomes Omo ale?
It is duplicitous.
The Igbo have a consistent yardstick for every woman's child born that way. The Igbo never pretend that such things never happen. Or that such occurrence is a freak of nature. People will continue having sex whether married or not till the end of time. It is not society's place to punish an innocent child.
I can understand situation whereby a woman doesn't know the father of her child, but how is it the child's fault, such that he or she gets tagged derogatorily? The woman can be tagged but not the child, IMHO.
In Igboland, a child is NEVER wrong due to the circumstance of birth, and can never be punished for the sexual behaviors of his or her parents.

Dtruthspeaker:


In the end you now came to spew your evil product. Well only those who love evil and death will buy it.

Typical black man.
When defeated in an intellectual argument, he resorts to religious sanctimonious name-calling and ad hominem.
Which is why we don't have simple electricity.
How does your trolling contribute to the discussion?
If you had paid proper attention, you would have noticed that there is no place for TROLLS in this thread.
The topic is not for kid trolls.
IGNORED HENCEFORTH.

onumadu:


So, if a boy impregnates a GIRL, it is not Omo ale? But if the same boy impregnates a single working class WOMAN (you do know that teenage boys can impregnate women in their forties, do you?), then that child becomes Omo ale?
It is duplicitous.
The Igbo have a consistent yardstick for every woman's child born that way. The Igbo never pretend that such things never happen. Or that such occurrence is a freak of nature. People will continue having sex whether married or not till the end of time. It is not society's place to punish an innocent child.
I can understand situation whereby a woman doesn't know the father of her child, but how is it the child's fault, such that he or she gets tagged derogatorily? The woman can be tagged but not the child, IMHO.
In Igboland, a child is NEVER wrong due to the circumstance of birth, and can never be punished for the sexual behaviors of his or her parents.

Well, as far as the father is known, the child is not Omo-Ale........

In Yoruba culture as I said, grandparent don't inherit grandchild(ren) by custom......fatherless child(ren) are/is a burden to his/her/their mother as she carries them/he/her to her new marriage...that is if she eventually find a man that is willing to accommodate them.......in most case they become part of the family and that is where the problem of the Omo-Ale become pronounced; in cases where the relationship between the legitimate children produce in the marriage is not well manage.


Most time, there won't be an obvious difference between these children........ especially when they are still young..........the difference most often appears naturally when the parent are aging.........

And I don't think that is a punishment, that is why Yoruba trains there children irrespective of the gender with preference......and Yoruba girls understand the consequences of promiscuity.

onumadu:

Typical black man.
When defeated in an intellectual argument, he resorts to religious sanctimonious name-calling and ad hominem.
Which is why we don't have simple electricity.
How does your trolling contribute to the discussion?
If you had paid proper attention, you would have noticed that there is no place for TROLLS in this thread.
The topic is not for kid trolls.
IGNORED HENCEFORTH.

Thank God the record shows I called you no names. But when we see an evil thing, we must say it is evil.

So it is your conscience that has judged which is why you are hearing name callings and as hominems, which is atypical of the black man.

kazyhm:


Well, as far as the father is known, the child is not Omo-Ale........

In Yoruba culture as I said, grandparent don't inherit grandchild(ren) by custom......fatherless child(ren) are/is a burden to his/her/their mother as she carries them/he/her to her new marriage...that is if she eventually find a man that is willing to accommodate them.......in most case they become part of the family and that is where the problem of the Omo-Ale become pronounced; in cases where the relationship between the legitimate children produce in the marriage is not well manage.


Most time, there won't be an obvious difference between these children........ especially when they are still young..........the difference most often appears naturally when the parent are aging.........

And I don't think that is a punishment, that is why Yoruba trains there children irrespective of the gender with preference......and Yoruba girls understand the consequences of promiscuity.

Well, it is what it is because ethnic groups decide what is best for them.
Methinks that unmarried women with fatherless children will continue to happen in Yorubaland till the end of time, regardless of the tags.
Which means that there will always be Omo ales there regardless.
It is really a matter of how groups value things; i.e VALUES.
The Igbo VALUE children more than sexual discretion.
The Igbo give these names to children: "nwadiuto" (child is sweet); "Obiajunwa" (the heart will never reject a child), "Nwakaego" (the child is worth more than money), and many many similar names...
Once a child is born, everything is really forgiven. Which is why a child will always have a legitimate claim to a family in Igboland no matter what his or her mother does. Similar child in Yoruba land faces dicey future because of the Omo ale tag.
His or her survival and future rights to familial acceptance, hence happiness depends on the mercy of other people.
Very very very FEW men married to women with such children would treat the children the same way they would their own biological children by the same woman.
Interesting differences.

onumadu:


Well, it is what it is because ethnic groups decide what is best for them.
Methinks that unmarried women with fatherless children will continue to happen in Yorubaland till the end of time, regardless of the tags.
Which means that there will always be Omo ales there regardless.
It is really a matter of how groups value things; i.e VALUES.
The Igbo VALUE children more than sexual discretion.
The Igbo give these names to children: "nwadiuto" (child is sweet); "Obiajunwa" (the heart will never reject a child), "Nwakaego" (the child is worth more than money), and many many similar names...
Once a child is born, everything is really forgiven. Which is why a child will always have a legitimate claim to a family in Igboland no matter what his or her mother does. Similar child in Yoruba land faces dicey future because of the Omo ale tag.
His or her survival and future rights to familial acceptance, hence happiness depends on the mercy of other people.
Very very very FEW men married to women with such children would treat the children the same way they would their own biological children by the same woman.
Interesting differences.

Yeah! Interesting differences.....with it peculiar advantages and disadvantages..........


I for one prefers the Yoruba cultural approached to many issues, the issue of first male child take it all, marrying a girl to produce a male child to a family with numerous female children, the OSU challenges etc.......

kazyhm:


Yeah! Interesting differences.....with it peculiar advantages and disadvantages..........


I for one prefers the Yoruba cultural approached to many issues, the issue of first male child take it all, marrying a girl to produce a male child to a family with numerous female children, the OSU challenges etc.......

Obviously you would prefer Yoruba approach "to many issues". But I suspect it is not because of the soundness of the soundness of the logic behind the practices.
Being able to separate primordial sentiments from issues like this is what makes one an intellectual (or an intelligent person).
For example, I don't support the Igbo "first son inherits everything" practice. There is no sound logic behind it.
Same applies to the Osu issue.
But the one around children is a different kettle of fish: The Igbo got that one PERFECT. In fact I'm so proud of it that I would keep advocating it for the rest of the world.
Pretending is not an Igbo thing. We deal with problems by accepting that they exist, and create institutions for them in our culture.
It is an unbelievable flexibility and resilience rarely found in African cultures. Sophisticated. Period.
The "Omo ale thing" is an exercise in pretense and denial. lol
it is a feel good measure created by men to punish women and their children because of men's hurt sexual egos. Doesn't solve the problem. Only kicks it down the road, creating future problems.

onumadu:


Obviously you would prefer Yoruba approach "to many issues". But I suspect it is not because of the soundness of the soundness of the logic behind the practices.
Being able to separate primordial sentiments from issues like this is what makes one an intellectual (or an intelligent person).
For example, I don't support the Igbo "first son inherits everything" practice. There is no sound logic behind it.
Same applies to the Osu issue.
But the one around children is a different kettle of fish: The Igbo got that one PERFECT. In fact I'm so proud of it that I would keep advocating it for the rest of the world.
Pretending is not an Igbo thing. We deal with problems by accepting that they exist, and create institutions for them in our culture.
It is an unbelievable flexibility and resilience rarely found in African cultures. Sophisticated. Period.
The "Omo ale thing" is an exercise in pretense and denial. lol
it is a feel good measure created by men to punish women and their children because of men's hurt sexual egos. Doesn't solve the problem. Only kicks it down the road, creating future problems.

These measures are not punishment aimed particularly to any gender........it is more of discipline and self control......you can't liberalize sex and have a sane less dramatic societies..........my stand is beyond primordial sentiments.


I believe if every culture adopt the Yoruba approach, it will curb paternity fraud, promiscuity, it is a birth control; especially for those that don't have the resources to raise a child, it solves the issue of teenage pregnancy and the complications associated with given birth through premature pelvic....

Underage will will have enough time for self development, Education and skills acquisition...there would be less distraction......

Yoruba don't see the practice as a punishment because to before warned is to before harm.

kazyhm:


These measures are not punishment aimed particularly to any gender........it is more of discipline and self control......you can't liberalize sex and have a sane less dramatic societies..........my stand is beyond primordial sentiments.


I believe if every culture adopt the Yoruba approach, it will curb paternity fraud, promiscuity, it is a birth control; especially for those that don't have the resources to raise a child, it solves the issue of teenage pregnancy and the complications associated with given birth through premature pelvic....

Underage will will have enough time for self development, Education and skills acquisition...there would be less distraction......

Yoruba don't see the practice as a punishment because to before warned is to before harm.

@First bolded: The practice clearly protects men and foists the punishment on women and their children.
Proof?
The woman is saddled with the child and the child faces all kinds of abuse from his mother's future husband and get called "Omo ale".
Whether given the child or not, the men who impregnate women lose nothing. Their future wives simply abuse the child if dumped on them by such mothers. The child suffers in BOTH instances.

Did you say "a way to discipline?" Has such pregnancies ended in the hundreds (or thousands) of years of Yorubaland? Isn't the problem of such pregnancies getting even worse today? So, what is the point then, except to abuse people. Even a family where a known thief was caught never gets called "Thief family". It would be sweeping and irrational. How can a dog eat a bone, and a sheep get punished?
The child is the sheep in this instance.

Also did you say "you can't liberalize sex"? Who told you that the reason Igbo chose to not punish innocent children is to liberalize sex?
Igbo are realistic about sex (created realistic institutions around it) and its associated outcomes. Nothing more. No pretenses about it.
I told you that the Igbo value children more than sex.
In any case, Igbo society is traditionally generally more conservative sef than Yoruba society, but I don't want to debate it here because it will derail the thread. Igbo conservatism overall is known worldwide. The only thing is that Igbo hate hypocrisy. The Igbo culture punishes a man who impregnates a woman by denying him access to the child.
If he wants the child, he MUST do the marriage rites before claiming it.
BTW, in Igboland we believe that a man who impregnates a woman without claiming his child is the biggest fool in the world.
He cannot brag with it. We call such men "mkpi na agbalu oha ewu" (the billy goat that impregnates all female goats free of charge).
No sensible Igbo man wants to bear such tag.
So, children (no matter how born) get protection.

@Second bolded: Has teenage pregnancy ended in Yoruba land, or is there even any hint that it is ending any time soon?

@Third bolded: If it is not a punishment, why then call a person "Omo ale"?
It is a deeply offensive abuse of an innocent person.
Have you ever seen any person who contributed to his or her own birth?
If you see please tell me.
A lot of us non-Yoruba even see "Omo ale" in the same way we see "Omo ole". We don't know the difference.
In fact some of us Igbo see "Omo ale" the same way you Yoruba see "Osu". lol

onumadu:


@First bolded: The practice clearly protects men and foists the punishment on women and their children.
Proof?
The woman is saddled with the child and the child faces all kinds of abuse from his mother's future husband and get called "Omo ale".
Whether given the child or not, the men who impregnate women lose nothing. Their future wives simply abuse the child if dumped on them by such mothers. The child suffers in BOTH instances.

Did you say "a way to discipline?" Has such pregnancies ended in the hundreds (or thousands) of years of Yorubaland? Isn't the problem of such pregnancies getting even worse today? So, what is the point then, except to abuse people. Even a family where a known thief was caught never gets called "Thief family". It would be sweeping and irrational. How can a dog eat a bone, and a sheep get punished?
The child is the sheep in this instance.

Also did you say "you can't liberalize sex"? Who told you that the reason Igbo chose to not punish innocent children is to liberalize sex?
Igbo are realistic about sex (created realistic institutions around it) and its associated outcomes. Nothing more. No pretenses about it.
I told you that the Igbo value children more than sex.
In any case, Igbo society is traditionally generally more conservative sef than Yoruba society, but I don't want to debate it here because it will derail the thread. Igbo conservatism overall is known worldwide. The only thing is that Igbo hate hypocrisy. The Igbo culture punishes a man who impregnates a woman by denying him access to the child.
If he wants the child, he MUST do the marriage rites before claiming it.
BTW, in Igboland we believe that a man who impregnates a woman without claiming his child is the biggest fool in the world.
He cannot brag with it. We call such men "mkpi na agbalu oha ewu" (the billy goat that impregnates all female goats free of charge).
No sensible Igbo man wants to bear such tag.
So, children (no matter how born) get protection.

@Second bolded: Has teenage pregnancy ended in Yoruba land, or is there even any hint that it is ending any time soon?

@Third bolded: If it is not a punishment, why then call a person "Omo ale"?
It is a deeply offensive abuse of an innocent person.
Have you ever seen any person who contributed to his or her own birth?
If you see please tell me.
A lot of us non-Yoruba even see "Omo ale" in the same way we see "Omo ole". We don't know the difference.
In fact some of us Igbo see "Omo ale" the same way you Yoruba see "Osu". lol

I think you're viewing this issue from personal perspective........

Yoruba didn't distinguish sex from child(ren).........hence not pretending that female gets pregnant.....and a child must be trained properly..........the bottom line is....if you engage in sex, the consequences is pregnancy.....and who get pregnant and who trains a child ?

Yoruba takes pride in training their children and how well trained the children turned out to be.........attend Yoruba wedding to witness how big the pride of a yoruba parents are.....

In the same vein, an untrained child is a pain in the ass of a yoruba parents.......an untrained child is a shame (whether the child refute training or not is irrelevant)

Therefore, the men are not being protect......only that Yoruba understand the difference between male and female.... especially in term of biological make up......

The Yoruba culture also understand the advantages of being male and the advantages of being female at any material time..........so the culture put in place measures that will limit the vulnerability of female.......and protect the male from labouring in vein......that being said.....

Yoruba understand the sacrifice of training a child....and it requires genuine effort of the father and motherly love and care.

Yoruba also understand that oju oloju, kole Jo oju Eni (human care more about their personal stuff than a care taker)


This cultural practices actually works, however it was more effective in the past...but before all this mix-ups.........when there is no much interference, and people uphold the cultural values.....more than personal value..... citizens falls in line and we all benefit from it.......

Those time when people understands that some ethic issues are not necessarily national issues

So it is not aimed at punishment......it is for the general good of everybody......but anybody that deviate either intentionally by personal choice and feelings or by circumstances beyond his/her control should be prepared for the livelong consequences....Koju maribi, gbogbo Ara lo'gun e.

kazyhm:



I think you're viewing this issue from personal perspective........

Yoruba didn't distinguish sex from child(ren).........hence not pretending that female gets pregnant.....and a child must be trained properly..........the bottom line is....if you engage in sex, the consequences is pregnancy.....and who get pregnant and who trains a child ?

Yoruba takes pride in training their children and how well trained the children turned out to be.........attend Yoruba wedding to witness how big the pride of a yoruba parents are.....

In the same vein, an untrained child is a pain in the ass of a yoruba parents.......an untrained child is a shame (whether the child refute training or not is irrelevant)

Therefore, the men are not being protect......only that Yoruba understand the difference between male and female.... especially in term of biological make up......

The Yoruba culture also understand the advantages of being male and the advantages of being female at any material time..........so the culture put in place measures that will limit the vulnerability of female.......and protect the male from labouring in vein......that being said.....

Yoruba understand the sacrifice of training a child....and it requires genuine effort of the father and motherly love and care.

Yoruba also understand that oju oloju, kole Jo oju Eni (human care more about their personal stuff than a care taker)


This cultural practices actually works, however it was more effective in the past...but before all this mix-ups.........when there is no much interference, and people uphold the cultural values.....more than personal value..... citizens falls in line and we all benefit from it.......

Those time when people understands that some ethic issues are not necessarily national issues

So it is not aimed at punishment......it is for the general good of everybody......but anybody that deviate either intentionally by personal choice and feelings or by circumstances beyond his/her control should be prepared for the livelong consequences....Koju maribi, gbogbo Ara lo'gun e.

So, when did the child make the decision to be born an "Omo ale"?
Second question: Is the Omo ale problem increasing, decreasing or staying the same statistically in Yorubaland?
My guess is that it is INCREASING due to the times we live in.
But what should concern you (and any discerning Yoruba) on this issue is the saying that "The family is only at peace because the Omo ale has not grown up". Which shows a family and societal stress that the Omo ale syndrome exerts on them .
If any enemy wants to destroy a family, the person only needs to find an Omo ale there, and work with him or her to destroy the family from inside.
There is no logical or moral basis for punishing an innocent child. Period.
The adults that give birth to such children simply move on with their lives while the child suffers.
The child becomes the proverbial bat without any firm claim to either father or mother side of the family.
If he dares to exert his rights, other "legitimate members" will simply remind him of his Omo ale status. Hence the proverb!

You guys have deviated from the original topic

CrownedPhoenix:
You guys have deviated from the original topic

I was derailed by someone who accused me of making the points in the OP using Igbo sociology and philosophy.
But come to think of it, if the points in the OP are well grounded in logic and practicality, why must they be discarded or viewed with ethnic suspicion?
The Europeans that brought monogamy to us, packaging it as "Christian", did so because they really believed it is better than what our ancestors practiced which, (in my part of Africa) was more complex and sophisticated.
The European colonialists never apologized for their beliefs, and even foisted them on us. Today some of us defend those things even more than the Europeans themselves.
Why then should another human system instituted and nurtured by the Igbo ancestors be de-legitimized, be forced to remain local to the Igbo alone, or be viewed with suspicion and discomfort?
That is what derailed the thread.
Methinks that the derailment, though bad, is also good in the sense that it helped to deepen the contextual background of the discussion.
Now, let's get back to the topic!

onumadu:
In Igboland we say “never tell an old woman to close her legs, because you don’t know from where she breathes!”.

Day169:
..
The proverb in the last paragraph got me cracking up..
Food 4 thought tho.

I think its more of an oxymoronic, because appropriately can be said as:
“never tell an old woman a runs girl, to close her legs, because you don’t know from where she breathes!”

onumadu:
More to come in comments!

Yeah, Kevin Samuels. RIP, if not, then, RIP.

On Point#1:
Marriage, essentially is about union and choice. Its not for everyone, thats true. Not everyone can stomach it, thats true again. Its not meant for everyone, is another truth. It requires commitment, dedication, understanding the reasons of whatever it is or was the purpose of forging in the first place and long run the partnership.

On Point#2:
The highlight of marriage, isnt necessarily about sex. Sex essentially is just an icing on the cake, an enticement. It really isnt the cake. We can push this further up the drive into deeper ends and talk about orgasms et cetera. Pleasurable feelings from having having sex can be obtained, acquired without involving a second party, third parties et cetera.

Having sex in a conjugal setting, even in non conjugal setting, ideally ought to be a selfless act.

PS: 'Omo ale' actually indicates bastard, (i.e. person born of parents not married, or whose father's identity is unknown) while 'Osu' indicates outcast (i.e. victim of caste system).

'Omo ale arent dedicated to gods or sacrificed, as used to be the case of 'Osu'

cc kazyhm
_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

onumadu:


The message has been carefully articulated in the OP.
You can identify the part you agree with, and challenge the part you don't agree with.
The gist of it all hinges on these two core points:
(1) Marriage is not for everyone
(2) Sexual compatibility is a critical factor in marriage.

Both points are deep and verse. ..

That is why marriage should not be approached carelessly.
These days, people simply dabble into marriage because they saw others marry.
It shouldn't be so.
You must WANT TO MARRY.
Getting married is a conscious and ACTIVE process (not a passive one).
Your spouse should be sexually compatible with you, or else, trouble lies ahead...
That is why doing spiritual work BEFORE (and even during) marriage is important.

I would like to know when you WOKE UP.

Or you have been In this Spiritual Journey for a While?

IGNORANCE Is killing a huge portion of African Population. Most especially Nigerians.

Evolutionlove:


I would like to know when you WOKE UP.

Or you have been In this Spiritual Journey for a While?

IGNORANCE Is killing a huge portion of African Population. Most especially Nigerians.

Your intuition is very sharp: I've been on the spiritual journey for a while now...
What drove me most (and still drives me) is AGAPE LOVE: Unconditional love. Not religion or religious dogma.
A lot of people are more interested in themselves than spare any thoughts for others.
People just don't think possessively about the situation that other people face.
The waking up process made me a voracious reader, and I was shocked by information about precolonial Africa and even pre-Roman Christianity (the original one).
At a point, it become clear to me that African ancestors practiced Agape love and lived in paradisaical societies, before contact with the European and Arab merchants, etc.
What shocked me more has been the intellectual laziness of African scholars and leaders (religious, cultural and political ones) about these things.
They just swallow and pass down strange imported things, even while their societies eclipse.
Shocking.
Currently, I am at the stage whereby I question things severely and contemporaneously to draw relevant conclusions.
You are absolutely right that ignorance is killing a huge portion of Africans.
But it is not a helpless situation as long as people are prepared to use their brains.

All good points.

Men, do not lead with money for the woman you want to marry, unless you're ready for that your entire life.

Men, do not cheat (wily-nily). Only exception is if your wife has children and is able but totally unwilling to be intimate. I highly suggest you divorce or be open with her about it before seeking outside.

Believe in love but shine your eye.

Men, marry a woman who is working or can work. A woman who can carry the family along IF you died unexpectedly. Please.

onumadu:


Your intuition is very sharp: I've been on the spiritual journey for a while now...
What drove me most (and still drives me) is AGAPE LOVE: Unconditional love. Not religion or religious dogma.
A lot of people are more interested in themselves than spare any thoughts for others.
People just don't think possessively about the situation that other people face.
The waking up process made me a voracious reader, and I was shocked by information about precolonial Africa and even pre-Roman Christianity (the original one).
At a point, it become clear to me that African ancestors practiced Agape love and lived in paradisaical societies, before contact with the European and Arab merchants, etc.
What shocked me more has been the intellectual laziness of African scholars and leaders (religious, cultural and political ones) about these things.
They just swallow and pass down strange imported things, even while their societies eclipse.
Shocking.
Currently, I am at the stage whereby I question things severely and contemporaneously to draw relevant conclusions.
You are absolutely right that ignorance is killing a huge portion of Africans.
But it is not a helpless situation as long as people are prepared to use their brains.

This Is very Insightful. Thanks.

I think I need to learn some things from you. Thanks once again and stay blessed.