FxMasterz:


I never said they were. I was using logic to find out what they could have been because that points us to truths derived from the roots.

You did. You said:

FxMasterz:


Logically looking at it all, the begining wasn't atheism. That's fact. The first humans were theists.

You even declared it as a fact. Show me how you know it for a fact.

LordReed:


You did. You said:


You even declared it as a fact. Show me how you know it for a fact.

Fact from logic. Please take a look at the logic I presented. And also from my subsequent discourse. You'll see why I came to that conclusion.

Maynman:


Atheism is one of the answer to theism.
The difference between Atheism and theism is A. A in greek means Without.
If there is no theism there’s no A’theism.

Why can’t the first humans worship themselves among themselves? We have people that worship animals.

Where did you read this from “ supreme being beyond the blues? Or a supposed mighty Creator of the universe?” maybe it was there that it was conceited from.

But you'll agree that if Atheism existed first, there'll be no theism. Or at least, anyone towing that lane would be considered a big fool. That which existed with the first humans is the major thing in this discourse.

I didn't talk about reading up on a supreme being or Creator of the universe. I was talking about a common element of most religions.

FxMasterz:


But you'll agree that if Atheism existed first, there'll be no theism. Or at least, anyone towing that lane would be considered a big fool. That which existed with the first humans is the major thing in this discourse.

I didn't talk about reading up on a supreme being or Creator of the universe. I was talking about a common element of most religions.

Don’t you understand?
Atheism couldn’t have existed first.
Did “anti corruption” exist first?
It was corruption that existed first, then one of the answers of corruption was “anti corruption”.

Theism came first, then one of the answer is “A’theism”.
This is simple enough for even a big fool to understand.

Which most religions?
Where did you get that from? Logic?
We have millions of religion, mention 10 that says that.
Or you mean monotheistic religion which are the most popular?

Do you think the religion we have now existed during the first humans?
The oldest religion is Animism.

FxMasterz:


Fact from logic. Please take a look at the logic I presented. And also from my subsequent discourse. You'll see why I came to that conclusion.

Logic is not fact. Facts are pieces of information that have been shown to be real or true. Logic is reasoning based on non fallacious premises and conclusions. The 2 are not the same. So basically your statements are just conjectures you are making not facts.

A001:

You're dumber than the religious people you criticize. A stupid person like you has no moral right to condemn any religious person because you're as foolish as them making claims yet when asked to provide proof, you're bringing irrelevant comments.

Youre as dumb as they come. How did you manage to read and write?

FxMasterz:


Bro, religion dates far into man's distant past. The first humans have a better understanding of these things than we whose religious histories have been majorly lost, and what we now call religion generally is a metamorphosis.

First, we need to understand that no one invented religion. It was actually in our roots. The first ancestors worshiped something or someone. Then, several generations afterwards, that something or someone became less known since everything at the time was passed down through oral history.

Then cane a generation that does not know what to worship but know they must worship something or someone as their fathers did, resulting in a mutiplicity of gods as everyone worships what he seems fit.

Generations later, some people are asking 'Is there really a God? Is there really an Afterlife?' if we have traceable records, I'm 100% certain we'll find the first Atheist who ever lived. This means the human race didn't take off in Atheism and then plunged itself into religion as we have it today. The Agnostics are themselves confused because they don't know what to believe.

The whole argument would have been easier if we have ancient records of things from the earliest man but the very lack of this is the reason why we all have disagreements.

However, even if such ancient records exist, many would still doubt such records. There are those who'll call them Fabrications. And of course, there are those unscrupulous elements who'll try to do mischievous forgeries and scripts for some personal gains at the expense of others.

Logically looking at it all, the begining wasn't atheism. That's fact. The first humans were theists. That should point us to some truths. They evidently were theists because they knew or even saw what they worshipped.
They also knew why they were worshipping him, it or them. They've passed the concept down to the entire human race who have now lost the identity of what was worshipped, and now the confusion.

Except we can prove that Atheism was the first thing humans ever did before veering into religion, we cannot safely void this kind of reasoning.

So if whatever the ancestors were worshipping showed themselves to our ancestors, how come they have been doing hide-and-seek with us? Shyness?

FxMasterz:


I think we can get somewhere with this.
Frankly speaking, no one has the records of what the first humans worshipped. Our ancestors who were polytheists were still a later generation. Yet, we can still make judgement on their basis because at least they're theists, and we can safely say that theism was handed down to them by their predecessors.
For the first humans, we cannot talk about education because they wouldn't have needed it. These set of people would definitely see, touch and know whatever they were worshipping for them to have passed it down to all human race. We're the ones who need education because we don't know what they knew. All our religious education or research should be geared towards knowing what they knew. Or towards seeing what they saw.

This is very strong because they wouldn't pass down religion without having a cogent reason for doing so. I'm very sure that the first humans who passed it down didn't do so as a fabrication because there'll be nothing to gain from such. If atheism was the root, then we can discard religion because, if the first humans saw nothing, the human race would worship nothing, and it would be very difficult for anyone to convince anybody to worship something that does not exist.

Religion came from ignorance. The first man saw the earth, lightning, water etc and decided they must be created. And they decided there has to be a higher being who they had to complain to. Thus prayers were born. No god revealed anything

jaephoenix:

Youre as dumb as they come. How did you manage to read and write?

You invited me to a silly thread, claimed I said something I didn't say, and when I asked you to quote where I said so, you replied with the same post where I challenged you to back your claim with a proof.

It's obvious you're suffering from a brain disorder. This forum needs a block button. Public nuisance like you and the dolt that created this thread should blocked.

The fool is criticizing religion to sound smart whereas he's as dumb as (if not more dense than) the religionists he's criticizing.

All of una dey the same WhatsApp group.

jaephoenix:

Religion came from ignorance. The first man saw the earth, lightning, water etc and decided they must be created. And they decided there has to be a higher being who they had to complain to. Thus prayers were born. No god revealed anything

That's an assumption. How come human beings speak to the supposed God in prayers and still believes He hears. You can't speak to someone you don't see except you know for sure He exists. The first humans weren't fulls. They knew exactly what they were doing.
I've not written this for argument sake anyway. Just to introduce some new line of thoughts. I do not have any doubt as touching what I believe.
Thanks for your input.

jaephoenix:

So if whatever the ancestors were worshipping showed themselves to our ancestors, how come they have been doing hide-and-seek with us? Shyness?

They can choose to relate with us the way they please. You're the one who calls it 'hide and seek' because of your limited experience. My question to you is that, have you ever sought for God? Also, why do you think God must seek you or deliberately show Himself to you without seeking Him?

Maynman:

Don’t you understand?
Atheism couldn’t have existed first.
Did “anti corruption” exist first?
It was corruption that existed first, then one of the answers of corruption was “anti corruption”.

Theism came first, then one of the answer is “A’theism”.
This is simple enough for even a big fool to understand.

Which most religions?
Where did you get that from? Logic?
We have millions of religion, mention 10 that says that.
Or you mean monotheistic religion which are the most popular?

Do you think the religion we have now existed during the first humans?
The oldest religion is Animism.

Even animism might not have started with the first humans or do you have any evidence for that?
But, the real question is why should Theism come first? Or, why should Theism ever exist. What's the prelude to Theism?

A001:

You invited me to a silly thread, claimed I said something I didn't say, and when I asked you to quote where I said so, you replied with the same post where I challenged you to back your claim with a proof.

It's obvious you're suffering from a brain disorder. This forum needs a block button. Public nuisance like you and the dolt that created this thread should blocked.

You are severely mentally cretarded. Reread that post and explain it to yourself. How does it sound to you? Was that initial post even addressed to me?

FxMasterz:


That's an assumption. How come human beings speak to the supposed God in prayers and still believes He hears. You can't speak to someone you don't see except you know for sure He exists. The first humans weren't fulls. They knew exactly what they were doing.
I've not written this for argument sake anyway. Just to introduce some new line of thoughts. I do not have any doubt as touching what I believe.
Thanks for your input.

Do you know there are thousands of gods during the ages of polytheism? And these gods were spread throughout the ages, from the Scandinavians(Thor), Aztecs, Mayans, Egyptians, Greeks(Zeus) etc. Did any of those gods speak to them? No. They even sacrificed people when no god told them to. Only high priests who claim to be spokespeople of those gods give them orders that 'thus says the gods'.
Thus they are foools, contrary to your views.

FxMasterz:


They can choose to relate with us the way they please. You're the one who calls it 'hide and seek' because of your limited experience. My question to you is that, have you ever sought for God? Also, why do you think God must seek you or deliberately show Himself to you without seeking Him?

Remember in the bible and other 'sacred books', those gods spoke directly to their subjects. Even sent them blessings and curses directly. They saw action, first hand!
Now what is happening? Hearsays! And from these hearsays, pastors, imans, etc scam these gullible people, using the religion to scam them.
And talking of seeking god, you think atheists haven't tried all those stuffs and came up empty?

FxMasterz:


Even animism might not have started with the first humans or do you have any evidence for that?
But, the real question is why should Theism come first? Or, why should Theism ever exist. What's the prelude to Theism?

I never said animism started with the first humans. I said it’s the oldest religion. And where is your evidence that first humans did theism?
And besides what do you mean first humans? Homo sapiens — homo erectus.
And also the first humans were scattered, they didn’t live together in the same community..

So how do we know if ALL The first humans worship anything?

I no get time for useless back-and-forth on a silly thread. Ara e o ya

Maynman:


I never said animism started with the first humans. I said it’s the oldest religion. And where is your evidence that first humans did theism?
And besides what do you mean first humans? Homo sapiens — homo erectus.
And also the first humans were scattered, they didn’t live together in the same community..

So how do we know if ALL The first humans worship anything?

Personally I don't think we can rely on science for understanding man's history. Science itself isn't perfect, that's why it continues to evolve.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

FxMasterz:


Personally I don't think we can rely on science for understanding man's history. Science itself isn't perfect, that's why it continues to evolve.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Science is perfect it’s scientists that are evolving, and the reason they are evolving is because once they see new facts, data and evidence they accept it and not remain Dogmatic like theists.
Science is the best explanation to understanding man’s history, it deals with facts and not logic.

Homo sapiens, homo erectus….etc are established FACTS.

You are welcome.

jaephoenix:

Remember in the bible and other 'sacred books', those gods spoke directly to their subjects. Even sent them blessings and curses directly. They saw action, first hand!
Now what is happening? Hearsays! And from these hearsays, pastors, imans, etc scam these gullible people, using the religion to scam them.
And talking of seeking god, you think atheists haven't tried all those stuffs and came up empty?

Bro, there are scammers everywhere but that doesn't mean anyone is a scammer. The problem is that scammers are many in this world. Counterfeits are always surplus but the originals are few.
I understand as you said that Atheists have made their own efforts before coming to a conclusion. But, while making those efforts, whose rule did they follow?

Maynman:


Science is perfect it’s scientists that are evolving, and the reason they are evolving is because once they see new facts, data and evidence they accept it and not remain Dogmatic like theists.
Science is the best explanation to understanding man’s history, it deals with facts and not logic.

Homo sapiens, homo erectus….etc are established FACTS.

You are welcome.

Good assertion.

Indeed science is perfect, humans evolve as they discover more about science. That's true.
Theists evolve too even though there are some who remain dogmatic.
For instance, all the many denominations of Christianity you see today are mostly as a result of new spiritual discoveries.
New groups form when the mother group becomes rigid and dogmatic. Those who have fresh encounters move away to form new groups.
New groups also emerge from new groups until we arrive at where we are today.
The truth is that man is the architect of his own confusions. Man is the very problem of himself.

FxMasterz:


Personally I don't think we can rely on science for understanding man's history. Science itself isn't perfect, that's why it continues to evolve.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

So what should we rely on? Hearsays, like the one you're proposing?

Maynman:


Science is perfect it’s scientists that are evolving, and the reason they are evolving is because once they see new facts, data and evidence they accept it and not remain Dogmatic like theists.
Science is the best explanation to understanding man’s history, it deals with facts and not logic.

Homo sapiens, homo erectus….etc are established FACTS.

You are welcome.

I wish there is a HyperLike button. Seun look into this

FxMasterz:


Bro, there are scammers everywhere but that doesn't mean anyone is a scammer. The problem is that scammers are many in this world. Counterfeits are always surplus but the originals are few.
I understand as you said that Atheists have made their own efforts before coming to a conclusion. But, while making those efforts, whose rule did they follow?

1. So which is the correct one out of those scammers?
2. How do we know your own 'rule' is the correct one?

jaephoenix:

So what should we rely on? Hearsays, like the one you're proposing?

Anyone relying on hearsay is a fool bro.
Don't assume that people are doing what they're doing based on hearsay. Nobody wants to fool himself when it comes to these things.
You should understand and accept that some people have found or seen things you never found or saw.
And you see, it happens in real life. We can watch the same events, and yet we could end up seeing different things in that same event.
I think coming to a conclusion that people are running their lives on hearsay is too fast.

FxMasterz:


Anyone relying on hearsay is a fool bro.
Don't assume that people are doing what they're doing based on hearsay. Nobody wants to fool himself when it comes to these things.
You should understand and accept that some people have found or seen things you never found or saw.
And you see, it happens in real life. We can watch the same events, and yet we could end up seeing different things in that same event.
I think coming to a conclusion that people are running their lives on hearsay is too fast.

Good. So
1. What did those people find or see?
2. How do we know they are telling the truth?
Please answer these 2 questions, follow-ups are on their way, when you're done answering these. Thank You

jaephoenix:

1. So which is the correct one out of those scammers?
2. How do we know your own 'rule' is the correct one?

For question 1, knowing the original of anything takes time and study. We must apply this rule to our search.

For question 2, you can't follow my rules, neither can you follow yours. If you must seek God, you must seek Him according to His own rules.

FxMasterz:


Good assertion.

Indeed science is perfect, humans evolve as they discover more about science. That's true.
Theists evolve too even though there are some who remain dogmatic.
For instance, all the many denominations of Christianity you see today are mostly as a result of new spiritual discoveries.
New groups form when the mother group becomes rigid and dogmatic. Those who have fresh encounters move away to form new groups.
New groups also emerge from new groups until we arrive at where we are today.
The truth is that man is the architect of his own confusions. Man is the very problem of himself.

Christianity is just one of the types of theism out of thousands. Mention other 5 religions that are not dogmatic.
And besides, The split during great schism and Protestant Denomination is on political stands and has nothing to do with “spiritual”. You should look up on the word “spiritual”.

Only the ignorant man is the architect of his own confusions. When you worship deities that are foreign to you, you lose your root and create problems for yourself especially christians that worship israelite god, yahweh.

jaephoenix:

Good. So
1. What did those people find or see?
2. How do we know they are telling the truth?
Please answer these 2 questions, follow-ups are on their way, when you're done answering these. Thank You

1. They found what you didn't find.
2. To know whether they're lying or not, experiment on their systems and see where it leads.

FxMasterz:

For question 1, knowing the original of anything takes time and study. We must apply this rule to our search.

For question 2, you can't follow my rules, neither can you follow yours. If you must seek God, you must seek Him according to His own rules.

This is fast turning into a circular argument, which is my problem with theists.
What god rules are you talking about, AND HOW DO WE KNOW ITS FROM GOD?

FxMasterz:

1. They found what you didn't find.
2. To know whether they're lying or not, experiment on their systems and see where it leads.

Bro, it looks like you like repeating yourself. I don't like repeating myself.
Please answer my question and stop this echolalic statements