Bombblacks:


I have added your full post underneath and it still didn't make any difference. Can humans decipher what is wrong or right without religion, society and various environmental factors? The answer is clearly no which is what I diagreed with in your post.

Sir, thank you for admitting your failed attempt.

Sir, you are debating and disagreeing with yourself. Is religion the only component of the environment? Is religion a product of humans? Is religion a social construct?

Most importantly, before the advent of religion, did people make moral/ ethical decisions? In today’s modern world, those who don not believe in religion, are they able to decipher between good and evil?

Have you ever heard of “Veil of ignorance”?

Roland17:


Sir, thank you admitting your failed attempt.

Sir, you are debating and disagreeing with yourself. Is religion the only component of the environment? Is religion a product of humans? Is religion a social construct?

Most importantly, before the advent of religion, did people make moral/ ethical decisions? In today’s modern world, those who don not believe in religion, are they able to decipher between good and evil?

Have you ever heard of “Veil of ignorance”?

We are not talking about religion being the basic of morality. You seem not to understand what am talking about. The initial post you even quoted made no mention of religion. What am trying to tell you is that humans are not Born with the innate knowledge to decipher good/bad or wrong/right. We are programmed and thought those things from birth hence they are influenced by society, environment factors, Religion etc

liveLongNprospa:
Chatgpt was asked about Obi's achievements... Here you go.

Part 1

Please oo.. It's chatgpt.. Take out what is "fake"
And leave the real.
I didn't bother doing due diligence for everything 🙏.


So now back to regular scheduling.

LP and ADC with a combined 200k plus polling unit agents🤭🤭🤭

liveLongNprospa:


Please oo.. It's chatgpt.. Take out what is "fake"
And leave the real.
I didn't bother doing due diligence for everything 🙏.


So now back to regular scheduling.

LP and ADC with a combined 200k plus polling unit agents🤭🤭🤭

Dammit,how did a structureless party pull that off in 8months

Bombblacks:

We are not talking about religion being the basic of morality. You seem not to understand what am talking about. The initial post you even quoted made no mention of religion. What am trying to tell you is that humans are not Born with the innate knowledge to decipher good/bad or wrong/right. We are programmed and thought those things from birth hence they are influenced by society, environment factors, Religion etc

Sir, my original post is as easy as easy. If we are not talking about religion then why are we debating! Isn’t that what you read in my original post? You see why I said you are debating yourself? You just jumped on it first by creating your own narrative and now you see you are wrong!

Let me also correct you, humans behavior is what actually influences the environment leading to social constructs like religion, not the other way around.

Let me make this easy for you. Seun, the owner of this website is an atheist, he doesn’t believe in God (anyone with better knowledge can correct me). Does the absence of religion in Seun’s life mean Seun can’t decipher between right and wrong?

Even though I’m not the most religious, I’m grateful for the Laws of Moses and the Hammurabi codex for their dictates around incestuous relations.

Let’s assume birth control fails and the incestuous morons conceive. A cretin is the likely product from a geneticists viewpoint.

Liberalism taken to extremes will be the death of us.

The fake news carrier,liar and propagandist on this thread have a missed call .......

Northwest Labour party still standing gidigba

https://twitter.com/JaypeeGeneral/status/1627741961288286208?t=po4-R2bPC99sgD2qVRUtRA&s=19

DeadPresidents:
Even though I’m not the most religious, I’m grateful for the Laws of Moses and the Hammurabi codex for their dictates around incestuous relations.

Let’s assume birth control fails and the incestuous morons conceive. A cretin is the likely product from a geneticists viewpoint.

Liberalism taken to extremes will be the death of us.

You are very correct. Even forgetting about morality, the birth of children with inherited metabolic diseases is the major argument against incest and consanguinity.

That’s if we forget that it is an inherently disgusting action.

Donjazet2:


Please I am not in anyway advocating for this oo. We are only discussing it's perceived morality..

We all believe incest is bad, but "what" exactly makes it bad? That's basically what the university question is asking to be discussed. The perceived morality..

WHY IS INCEST BAD?

I continue to put a disclaimer, my post is in no way an advocacy but we all grow intellectually when such difficult questions are posed.

Hmm talk true,I dey use corner eye look you oooo....

Roland17:


Sir, my original post is as easy as easy. If we are not talking about religion then why are we debating! Isn’t that what you read in my original post? You see why I said you are debating yourself? You just jumped on it first by creating your own narrative and now you see you are wrong!

Let me also correct you, humans behavior is what actually influences the environment leading to social constructs like religion, not the other way around.

Let me make this easy for you. Seun, the owner of this website is an atheist, he doesn’t believe in God (anyone with better knowledge can correct me). Does the absence of religion in Seun’s life mean Seun can’t decipher between right and wrong?

What is human behavior? You realize human behavior is affected and controlled by society, environmental factors, religion etc..

You are still getting it wrong by even using this seun example. I am not debating with you that religion is the only factors in which human decides what's wrong or right. That seems like your entire premise. What am telling you is that humans are not born with an innate sense of what's right or wrong. We get them from society and environmental factors which could mean religion, laws and regulations, Personal conviction etc. Seun might not use religion to determine what is right or wrong but he has other foundations on which he gets his morality from. Maybe we are arguing from diff viewpoint or I misinterpreted your initial post.

DeadPresidents:
Even though I’m not the most religious, I’m grateful for the Laws of Moses and the Hammurabi codex for their dictates around incestuous relations.

Let’s assume birth control fails and the incestuous morons conceive. A cretin is the likely product from a geneticists viewpoint.

Liberalism taken to extremes will be the death of us.

Come on do a little research. Genetic disorder from incest only comes if it continues for multiple generations.

Bombblacks:

What is human behavior? You realize human behavior is affected and controlled by society, environmental factors, religion etc..

You are still getting it wrong by even using this seun example. I am not debating with you that religion is the only factors in which human decides what's wrong or right. That seems like your entire premise. What am telling you is that humans are not born with an innate sense of what's right or wrong. We get them from society and environmental factors which could mean religion, laws and regulations, Personal conviction etc. Seun might not use religion to determine what is right or wrong but he has other foundations on which he gets his morality from.

Once again, you are the one who has created this argument in your thoughts about my position when it is easy to understand.

“Humans have the capacity to decipher between right or wrong (Morality) without religion.”

Show me where any other thing was discussed other than religion before you wholeheartedly disagreed and tied to create another debate?

You are the one that quoted the post and disagreed and I asking u, can someone who is irreligious decipher between good and bad?

What is good and what is bad is determined by the society we live in

What we consider good or bad today was/is acceptable behavior in some societies

In the west it's more acceptable to have a same sex relationship than to have an heterosexual relationship that is polygamous. Those of us who grew up in Africa and other parts of the world will wonder how that even starts to make sense

Royal families practice incest in the past to keep the purity of their bloodline.

Science has shown that it predispose children from such relationships to genetic defects


We are higher animals and intelligent ones too. Our behavior need to reflect that

As a society we need to have certain standards that guide us otherwise we will become like animals that nack their own mothers and siblings

Bombblacks:

Come on do a little research. Genetic disorder from incest only comes if it continues for multiple generations.

If we establish a precedent, who says such inbreeding cannot continue for generations?

You’re the one that needs to research the fate of the Royal houses of Europe and ancient Egypt that had incest as a favorite pastime.

King Tut-ankh-amun was most likely a cripple based on his bone density when his interred remains were unearthed.

raumdeuter:
What is good and what is bad is determined by the society we live in

What we consider good or bad today was/is acceptable behavior in some societies

In the west it's more acceptable to have a same sex relationship than to have an heterosexual relationship that is polygamous. Those of us who grew up in Africa and other parts of the world will wonder how that even starts to make sense

Royal families practice incest in the past to keep the purity of their bloodline.

Science has shown that it predispose children from such relationships to genetic defects


We are higher animals and intelligent ones too. Our behavior need to reflect that

As a society we need to have certain standards that guide us otherwise we will become like animals that nack their own mothers and siblings

I hope you know polygamy is not legal in Nigeria as well. You are talking about traditionally in Africa.

DeadPresidents:


If we establish a precedent, who says such inbreeding cannot continue for generations?

You’re the one that needs to research the fate of the Royal houses of Europe and ancient Egypt that had incest as a favorite pastime.

King Tut-ankh-amun was most likely a cripple based on his bone density when his interred remains were unearthed.

Inbreeding during those days were forced because they wanted to maintain blood line. It's a totally different concept to what the original poster asked.

Bombblacks:

What is human behavior? You realize human behavior is affected and controlled by society, environmental factors, religion etc..

You are still getting it wrong by even using this seun example. I am not debating with you that religion is the only factors in which human decides what's wrong or right. That seems like your entire premise. What am telling you is that humans are not born with an innate sense of what's right or wrong. We get them from society and environmental factors which could mean religion, laws and regulations, Personal conviction etc. Seun might not use religion to determine what is right or wrong but he has other foundations on which he gets his morality from. Maybe we are arguing from diff viewpoint or I misinterpreted your initial post.

Speaking about humans and the environment, I still maintain that it is human behavior that influences the environment before the latter influences the former. Without human behavior there is no environment. Human behavior creates social constructs and acceptable standards that promote communal living.

The human brain is designed to essentially ask the question “WHY”? Do you have kids? If you do, when your kid was a baby and learning to walk and had no understating of morality, did your baby try to go touch or do something you know they shouldn’t be doing? Did your baby at any point push boundaries trying to see your reaction?

The answer is most likely yes and that is because, the human brain from birth is designed to be inquisitive, it is never “conditioned” as you proposed. Does the environment influence humans? Yes but Human behavior is integral to defining society and the environment.

Bombblacks:

I hope you know polygamy is not legal in Nigeria as well. You are talking about traditionally in Africa.

That's news to me that Polygamy is not legal in Nigeria

I've never seen anyone prosecuted for Polygamy and many people are openly polygamous

Yes I mean under traditional marriage

Bombblacks:

Come on do a little research. Genetic disorder from incest only comes if it continues for multiple generations.

You are wrong.

Many genetic disorders, especially the metabolic ones (the so called in-born errors of metabolism) are inherited in an autosomal recessive fashion.

This means if a man (or woman) has that gene each child of his has a 50% chance of inheriting the gene. It only takes 2 of his children to nack themselves and the child of this incestuous union has a high chance of developing the full blown disease.

This is what would happen in diseases like Gauchers Disease, Phenylketonuria, Pompe Disease etc. One generation of incest is enough to produce diseased offspring.

Tataffo:


Dammit,how did a structureless party pull that off in 8months

Lmao
And now we basically have enough candidates across board. Madness


BTW I'm happy that pastors are beginning to speak up and asking people to vote for a certain someone

Not like that coward who was talking about saul and david

raumdeuter:


That's news to me that Polygamy is not legal in Nigeria

I've never seen anyone prosecuted for Polygamy and many people are openly polygamous

Yes I mean under traditional marriage

Yes Africans practice polygamy under traditional form of marriage. Legally it's not allowed in Nigeria same as in the u.s.

Roland17:


Speaking about humans and the environment, I still maintain that it is human behavior that influences the environment before the latter influences the former. Without human behavior there is no environment. Human behavior creates social constructs and acceptable standards that promote communal living.

The human brain is designed to essentially ask the question “WHY”? Do you have kids? If you do, when your kid was a baby and learning to walk and had no understating of morality, did your baby try to go touch or do something you know they shouldn’t be doing? Did your
baby at any point push boundaries trying to see your reaction?

The answer is most likely yes and that is because, the human brain from birth is designed to be inquisitive, it is never “conditioned” as you proposed. Does the environment influence humans? Yes but Human behavior is integral to defining society and the environment.

I actually think it's the opposite. Our environment is what creates, shapes our behavior and the way we think or acts. I believe a baby raised by monkeys from day 1 will see it self as a monkey, think and act like one. They have been experimentation carried out on it as well.

Bombblacks:

I actually think it's the opposite. Our environment is what creates, shapes our behavior and the way we think or acts. I believe a baby raised by monkeys from day 1 will see it self as a monkey, think and act like one. They have been experimentation carried out on it as well.

Roland17 argument is very clear and has depth.

This environment you're talking about didn't just drop from heaven; it was created by some humans who were the forebears of modern humans.

Culture, religion, morality, ethics are all social constructs and man-made. These things condition humans and give us acceptable standards to behave in society.

So, past humans created the environment because they were capable of knowing what's right and what's wrong, and this environment does the conditioning and programming of modern humans.

Even without religion, you still know what's right and what's wrong. You don't need a book or a priest to tell you that certain actions are good or bad because culture, morality and ethics are enough as conditioning factors and can exist without a religion.

You're just arguing for the mere sake of it. No be everything you go dey argue.

Incest is wrong mainly because of the diseases and defects it can cause. Apart from that, most times, it messes up the child's life.

There are few exceptions, but for most people, it has bad consequences.

A001:

Roland17 argument is very clear and has depth.

This environment you're talking about didn't just drop from heaven; it was created by some humans who were the forebears of modern humans.

Culture, religion, morality, ethics are all social constructs and man-made. These things condition humans and give us acceptable standards to behave in society.

So, past humans created the environment because they were capable of knowing what's right and what's wrong, and this environment does the conditioning and programming of modern humans.

Even without religion, you still know what's right and what's wrong. You don't need a book or a priest to tell you that certain actions are good or bad because culture, morality and ethics are enough as conditioning factors and can exist without a religion.

You're just arguing for the mere sake of it. No be everything you go dey argue.

Incest is wrong mainly because of the diseases and defects it can cause. Apart from that, most times, it messes up the child's life.

There are few exceptions, but for most people, it has bad consequences.

I can’t like this post enough!

One other thing he is failing to see is that the “environment” which is society in his understanding has evolved over the decades primarily because of human behaviors. The environment did not create human behavior, rather human behavior will continue to modify our environment by creating social constructs on what is acceptable as we evolve.

Societal norms, values, language, cultures and now technology form integral aspects of the environment and they will continue to be primarily influenced by human behavior and not the other way around. The changes in our environment is as a result of human behavior. The society and environment is a product of the human mind and its insatiable quest for knowledge.

It is why I used religion, a social construct as an example to help him understand that the human mind is dynamic with unbelievable possibilities. You don’t need religion to know what is right or wrong. A baby born today comes out crying, parents respond to that by trying to soothe the baby.

He is underrating the capacity of a single human mind. Like you rightly said, the environment did not fall from the sky, humans behavior created society. One human mind creates ideas before selling it to other minds as acceptable or unacceptable before it becomes an acceptable norm. This is why I asked him about “The veil of ignorance” often referred to as “Original position” (theorized by Rawls) when it comes to the question of morality. The human mind is beautiful and has no boundaries in asking the question “WHY”?

Bombblacks:

Yes Africans practice polygamy under traditional form of marriage. Legally it's not allowed in Nigeria same as in the u.s.

I think u are confusing urself with semantics here . Raumdeuter is right , polygamy is legal in Nigeria . Why ? Because the legal system in Nigeria includes common law( the English law ) , customary law and sharia.

That is why u won’t see anybody prosecuted for practicising polygamy except he marries under common law which bars a man from having more than a wife.

When u say polygamy is not allowed in he USA , u are right cos it’s alien to their legal system .However u can’t say polygamy is not allowed in Nigeria cos our legal system which includes customary law and sharia actually makes it legal .

BlueRayDick:


I think u are confusing urself with semantics here . Raumdeuter is right , polygamy is legal in Nigeria . Why ? Because the legal system in Nigeria includes common law( the English law ) , customary law and sharia.

That is why u won’t see anybody prosecuted for practicising polygamy except he marries under common law which bars a man from having more than a wife.

When u say polygamy is not allowed in he USA , u are right cos it’s alien to their legal system .However u can’t say polygamy is not allowed in Nigeria cos our legal system which includes customary law and sharia actually makes it legal .

I was wondering where he got the law from
Moreover it only applies to those that did court wedding (part of the English law)

Wonderful submissions from all sides.

Very similar to the arguments had on that same thread..
You see what I mean when I say we all grow intellectually when these kinds of conversations are had.

Dayo makes a good point when he says we as humans MUST have certain standards we set for ourselves, else we become just like the lesser animals we have already evolved past..

But I guess the ultimate question still begs, what are the ultimate parameters to determine those "standards" we set for ourselves?

For example, all societies generally frowns upon murder. That's someone killing another person. But in the same vein we tend to celebrate soldiers some of whom are serial murderes. In fact the more human beings on the opposite side a soldier kills, the more celebrated he becomes. And his "cause" {the wars he fights in}is determined simply by what the leaders of that army says is justifiable.

Look at Russia, Ukraine. Two sister nations with shared cultures, language, cuisine and everything. Today brothers are killing brothers simply because the leaders are fighting over control of land space. And the soldiers on both sides are celebrating the murder of the opponents. But these same people all believe that murder is bad.

So you see. "Morality" is indeed man made which is why I guess, we must all try individually to be accommodating and tolerant towards divergent views. Something religious folks can barely afford.

ribbit:
yen yen yen

Someone woke up and called Lagos a giant slum but him defending an immigrant calling a Lagos slum makes him a bigot.

Leave the slum they won't. They migrate in drove to the slum and still have strength to insult people.

Besides that, he eloquently highlighted why people should vote for asiwaju without sounding like broken record.

The way you people think is just disgusting!!
The need to always add tribal addendums or xenophobic rants is just astonishing.

Are you saying that because people emigrated to a place, they don't have the right to criticize the place they now stay in or it's policies maybe?

How do you guys keep dredging up this useless talking point?
You go to other cities of the world, you see them accept criticism without all these xenophobia but that of Lagos is being treated differently why?

Many new yorkers today are immigrants from other places but on the news, you get to constantly hear how newyork is crime laden and the streets are dirty. This is criticism by the politicians and many of them are treating the issues seriously. But once one points out some problems in Lagos, people start saying they should go back to where they're from..
I'm sure that you yourself are not even a lagosian but somehow you are telling others to either keep quiet and go back.