izzou:


The same people hailing the borrowings would come tomorrow and tell us how Nigeria is laddened with debt, how we spend 80% of our earnings on debt servicing, how this country cant be redeemed, blah blah blah

Tomorrow, they'll defend borrowing again and call it a Masterclass move

If a man like me can be confused about what Nigerians want, I wonder how confused the heavens will be

Spy360:

If your parents took a loan to buy a car, in hope that when you are born, grow up, finish school, get a job you will start paying off the loan. You won't like them.

To them it may be a good thing they have a car, but to a bystander, they are wicked parents.

This is just an analogy.

liveLongNprospa:
Peter Obi dey try sha.

Lmao this one INEC is still refusing to comply so. God abeg

Spy360:

Borrowing for infrastructure is not bad, but it should not be counted as an achievement.

A man who worked hard, saved, invested and built a two bedroom apartment is bigger than the one who borrowed to build a duplex.

The one who borrowed has only put the future generations in debt. The one who didn't has laid down a legacy.

If the one who borrowed made a concrete arrangement through investment to pay off the loan, then it's a fairly good achievement. If not, it means nothing.

Buhari has only put Nigerians in a situation when the future generations will pay for what the elders today will enjoy.

Amigoss:
Na today Nigeria matter pain me pass,Only me finish 800naira sliced bread and ewa goyin,Few hours later I dey hungry

If they remove subsidy now,this 800naira bread wey no belleful me go be like 1500 o

Theflint1:
I never disputed this.

izzou:


The same people hailing the borrowings would come tomorrow and tell us how Nigeria is laddened with debt, how we spend 80% of our earnings on debt servicing, how this country cant be redeemed, blah blah blah

Tomorrow, they'll defend borrowing again and call it a Masterclass move

If a man like me can be confused about what Nigerians want, I wonder how confused the heavens will be

Spy360:

If your parents took a loan to buy a car, in hope that when you are born, grow up, finish school, get a job you will start paying off the loan. You won't like them.

To them it may be a good thing they have a car, but to a bystander, they are wicked parents.

This is just an analogy.

raumdeuter:


How we spend the debt acquired is the problem. Economy needs certain infrastructure to move. You cannot be seeing containers stuck in Apapa daily and think that is productive for the economy or seeing the road traffic gridlock on old Niger bridge and think that should continue

Getting loans to do mundane things like flyover bridge over an area with little economic activity is the waste

Spy360:

Borrowing for infrastructure is not bad, but it should not be counted as an achievement.

A man who worked hard, saved, invested and built a two bedroom apartment is bigger than the one who borrowed to build a duplex.

The one who borrowed has only put the future generations in debt. The one who didn't has laid down a legacy.

If the one who borrowed made a concrete arrangement through investment to pay off the loan, then it's a fairly good achievement. If not, it means nothing.

Buhari has only put Nigerians in a situation when the future generations will pay for what the elders today will enjoy.

raumdeuter:


Most infrastructure all over the world are built with loans because of the huge amount needed to complete it, It will ensure that yur population enjoy the infrastructure and can pay for it later.

Waiting to save up the amount needed for the project will take years and the lives wasted or inefficiency over that time

raumdeuter:


How we spend the debt acquired is the problem. Economy needs certain infrastructure to move. You cannot be seeing containers stuck in Apapa daily and think that is productive for the economy or seeing the road traffic gridlock on old Niger bridge and think that should continue

Getting loans to do mundane things like flyover bridge over an area with little economic activity is the waste

Spy360:

Hence, the achievement you should be talking about should not include this. Because it is not an achievement.

Any achievement in this line will be the things that have been put in place to generate income to settle the loan. That should be what to be mentioned as the achievement.

No one should be talking about building roads as an achievement using borrowed money when...

Unemployment is on an all time high
133million poor introduced into poverty
Naira value has collapsed
Inflation is suffering from inflation
Life expectancy dropped to below adult age
Education is dead
A president will die if he is treated for malaria in our local hospitals
Security agencies are insecure
Bandits are vigilantes and collecting tax
Etc

GloriousGbola:


lets expand on that

so that car was the car that took you to school everyday. without that car you would have walked to school everyday and gotten to school late, dirty tired and stressed.

by buying that car [with a loan] they made your education easier and allowed you to focus on your education

no one would be upset by loans if they ultimately added value - the problem is that the loans are often siphoned and wasted and they end up not adding value

izzou:
Then we don't need Tinubu,Atiku or Obi to rule.

Just anybody that can access loans and build infrastructure is fine for a president, since he doesn't need to strategise on how we can reduce borrowing and generate more.
The money Buhari borrowed in the last two years is twice what he has borrowed since 2015.
I don't even know the achievement exactly:
The fact that he borrowed to build infrastructure (basic knowledge 101)
or
The fact that he didn't steal the borrowed funds (We have become worse in the global corruption index since he came)

raumdeuter:


Roads, brides built make doing business easy increase business and make it easier to get taxes.

If you can move Container from Apapa to Onitsha on a fast train within 2hrs, that opens up the entire SE and thus create a new business hub with more people paying taxes, paying for freight and govt makes money

If you make people commute from 4hrs daily to 1hr using loans to build new roads, the people wont mind paying tolls that will pay the loans

Spy360:

Good.

Now in all honesty, would you consider that as an achievement if you are the parent?

Would you consider it a thing to be proud of while telling your child to pay the loan?

Yes or No

Spy360:

You are running in cycles. I have never said the project is a bad one or that it is useless. What we are considering here is if you will term it an achievement. Stop pretending you don't understand what I mean.

Olowunl01:

Anybody still believing that Buhari performed better than Jonathan is being untruthful... Jonathan maybe not have performed well, but based on his experience and coupled with Boko Haram challenge and him being a security novice, I would say he is 4/10 primarily becos knowing he doesn't know he allowed people that know to take lead resulting to mostly positive(Amina, Iweala, Adesina & co) with some spectacular failure e.g. Dieziani.. Buhari on the other hand came with Obasanjo level experience and if we are being honest should be compared against Obj 8years tenure achievement (don't bother he does not measure up) he failed spectacularly Ex President, Ex Minister for Petroluem, Head of other Government Agency under Abacha and still he couldn't deliver.
What exactly did Buhari do better in 8yrs than Jonathan 5yrs?
Rail
Jonathan did Abj - Kad although comissioned by Buhari, where is Buhari equivalent after 8years seeing Abj- Kad was constructed within 5yrs, I expected we would have standard gauge/fast train between Lagos -ABJ or Lag - Kad as these should actually take less time to complete, as route exist so less demolition work, planning & Analysis bring an upgrade behold na Lag - Ibadan we still dey.

Agriculture:
For those shouting Rice Mills - for Buhari, Abeg na wetin Akinwunmi Adesina do na ? Or didn't the Agriculture revolution begin with the policies he implemented under Jonathan?


Like BluerayDick said - support your MCM, but please also hold them to account on behalf of people of Nigeria; not providing them with ready made excuses - cos we need a working Nigeria...

If Ghana next door is working and improving abeg what is Nigeria's excuse?

raumdeuter:


Even with loans you still need someone with vision to implement and make it impactful. You cannot tell me taking a loan to build 2nd Niger bridge has the same impact as taking a loan to build a flyover in Gbongan

What is the economic advantage the project gives vs the loans taken.

larride:


If I cannot allow the law to take it course when/if my relatives are found wanting of allegedly embezzling public funds, what moral right do I have to do it to others?

You see where this is going?

Olowunl01:

Anybody still believing that Buhari performed better than Jonathan is being untruthful... Jonathan maybe not have performed well, but based on his experience and coupled with Boko Haram challenge and him being a security novice, I would say he is 4/10 primarily becos knowing he doesn't know he allowed people that know to take lead resulting to mostly positive(Amina, Iweala, Adesina & co) with some spectacular failure e.g. Dieziani.. Buhari on the other hand came with Obasanjo level experience and if we are being honest should be compared against Obj 8years tenure achievement (don't bother he does not measure up) he failed spectacularly Ex President, Ex Minister for Petroluem, Head of other Government Agency under Abacha and still he couldn't deliver.
What exactly did Buhari do better in 8yrs than Jonathan 5yrs?
Rail
Jonathan did Abj - Kad although comissioned by Buhari, where is Buhari equivalent after 8years seeing Abj- Kad was constructed within 5yrs, I expected we would have standard gauge/fast train between Lagos -ABJ or Lag - Kad as these should actually take less time to complete, as route exist so less demolition work, planning & Analysis bring an upgrade behold na Lag - Ibadan we still dey.

Agriculture:
For those shouting Rice Mills - for Buhari, Abeg na wetin Akinwunmi Adesina do na ? Or didn't the Agriculture revolution begin with the policies he implemented under Jonathan?


Like BluerayDick said - support your MCM, but please also hold them to account on behalf of people of Nigeria; not providing them with ready made excuses - cos we need a working Nigeria...

If Ghana next door is working and improving abeg what is Nigeria's excuse?

izzou:


I have listed two options from this discussion. Which is it?

And 2nd Niger bridge is not the only project that he borrowed.

Benin/Ore expressway was built with loans. There is no toll gate there. So how will the road pay for the loan?

Odofa to Badagry Roundabout is being built with loan. How will the project pay for itself, since it is not tolled?

raumdeuter:


Is building the 2nd Niger bridge with loans an achievement or not?

What is an achievement to you? Anything that makes doing business easier is an achievement to me

Spy360:

Good.

Now in all honesty, would you consider that as an achievement if you are the parent?

Would you consider it a thing to be proud of while telling your child to pay the loan?

Yes or No

GloriousGbola:


you are using the wrong term.

why would i consider a car an achievement? a car for me is first and foremost a TOOL to make my life and work easier. for ME, my purchase decisions are hinged FIRST and FOREMOST on UTILITY - not 'ACHIEVEMENT'
you are mixing up achievement with utility

my adult children would recognize that a car loan made their education easier. that is what adulthood is about. if i had taken a loan for a thing that had no impact whatsoever on their quality of life - then they can be upset.

Spy360:

This is mediocre. Sorry for the harsh words.

Any mediocre who is elected president can go to IMF or World Bank and ask for money using the nation as collateral to build road. You don't even have to think to do that. It's like swallowing fufu with egusi soup. When I do that I don't even need any form of calculation.

An achievement for me, for someone who gets elected into the highest office in the federation is being able to provide leadership and service that an average Nigerian cannot provide for himself.

For example,

Beating down inflation so that bread drops from N1000 to N500
Creating the environment for business growth, and business actually growing.
Working up the economy so that naira drops from N700 black market to N400
Making life and property secure so that traveling from Abuja to Kaduna won't make headline news
Etc.

Tell me about such achievements. These are the areas that require thoughtful planning and organisation.

GloriousGbola:


you are using the wrong term.

why would i consider a car an achievement? a car for me is first and foremost a TOOL to make my life and work easier. for ME, my purchase decisions are hinged FIRST and FOREMOST on UTILITY - not 'ACHIEVEMENT'
you are mixing up achievement with utility

my adult children would recognize that a car loan made their education easier. that is what adulthood is about. if i had taken a loan for a thing that had no impact whatsoever on their quality of life - then they can be upset.

Spy360:



Beating down inflation so that bread drops from N1000 to N500
Creating the environment for business growth, and business actually growing.
Working up the economy so that naira drops from N700 black market to N400
Making life and property secure so that traveling from Abuja to Kaduna won't make headline news
Etc.

.