Maynmann:

No, if I know the EXACT time, where and how the rain will fall, EXACT time it will stop, that means i caused it.
I am omniscience, i planned everything.

So if you know that fuel would be sold for 1000 naira in few months time it means you caused it? Does that makes sense to you?

Steep:
So going by your logic m, scientist who knows when, and exact time, where eclipse would occur cursed eclipse right?

Scientists don’t know they predict, they are not Omniscience.

Steep:
So if you know that fuel would be sold for 1000 naira in few months time it means you caused it? Does that makes sense to you?

I cannot know, i can only predict.
I’m not omniscience, do you know what “omniscience” means?
You are yet to make sense.

Steep:
My world view is that God created everybody so doing harm to anybody is wrong universally, atheism has no room for this.

Your subjective worldview no doubt, which is why you claim rape is not wrong if your God says rape is right. I can just about hear you claim your God told you to rape and cheat and murder and lie.

Not only are you subjective, but your God sounds subjective too, which is why most societies do not leave right or wrong to gods.

Steep:
without the concept of God there is no absolutely right and wrong.

Of course without the supreme authority there can never be absolute right or wrong!

Steep:
without the concept of God there is no absolutely right and wrong.

The issue of morality isn't that simple. Even if you bring gods into the equation, the problem still remains.

There are different religions today, with different gods who claimed to be the creator of the universe, and hence the source of the moral laws, if any, in them.

So far, no god has been proven to be the creator of the universe, and therefore, no god can lay a claim to objective morality.

Morality among theists is still highly subjective, but it moves from being subjective among humans, to being subjective among gods.

god A says eating pork is wrong. god B says it's okay. That's the case we have today.

If you want to make a case for objective morality, you need to first prove the source of it, A.K.A, the god, and then prove that the moral laws set by this god are indeed from it.

Because from what it seems, moral laws, are a purely human thing. And rather than seen as subjective or objective, they appear to be somewhat progressive.

Maynmann:

Scientists don’t know they predict, they are not Omniscience.

they don't need to be omniscent. Your argument is "if something is known before it happens then the person that has that knowledge caused it.
So is scientist know for sure that something will happen then they are the cause right?

Maynmann:

I cannot know, i can only predict.
I’m not omniscience, do you know what “omniscience” means?
You are yet to make sense.

government told you for exwmol3 that they are going to increase price of Goods the following week going by your dumb logic you are the cause because you knew about it before.

budaatum:


Your subjective worldview no doubt, which is why you claim rape is not wrong if your God says rape is right. I can just about hear you claim your God told you to rape and cheat and murder and lie.

Not only are you subjective, but your God sounds subjective too, which is why most societies do not leave right or wrong to gods.

My world view is not subjective, I believe what is wrong is wrong universally because there is a universal creator. Atheism cannot allow for objective morality.

Wilgrea7:


The issue of morality isn't that simple. Even if you bring gods into the equation, the problem still remains.

you are wrong, morality becomes object because there exist a power outside of man dmtgat determines what is right and wrong.

There are different religions today, with different gods who claimed to be the creator of the universe, and hence the source of the moral laws, if any, in them.>

people may try to have a god after their umage but it does it negate that God exist.

So far, no god has been proven to be the creator of the universe, and therefore, no god can lay a claim to objective morality.

The prove of God is all around. You can't have a creation without a creator.
Flat earthers claim there is no proof the earth is sphere going by your but evidence points otherwise.

Morality among theists is still highly subjective, but it moves from being subjective among humans, to being subjective among gods.

for theist that have same concept of God it is objective.

god A says eating pork is wrong. god B says it's okay. That's the case we have today.

If you want to make a case for objective morality, you need to first prove the source of it, A.K.A, the god, and then prove that the moral laws set by this god are indeed from it.

you don't accept proof. Otherwise the proof is all ready there.

Because from what it seems, moral laws, are a purely human thing. And rather than seen as subjective or objective, they appear to be somewhat progressive.

Ooook soon moral law is purely a human thing, you have just confirmed what I said.
Atheism has no basis for objective morality.
So morality is basically anything I feel like or anything that benefits me or society.
All these rigmarolling is to justify your point. You shouldn't be embarrassed to say atheist world view has no true morality.

Steep:
government told you for exwmol3 that they are going to increase price of Goods the following week going by your dumb logic you are the cause because you knew about it before.

If I know the prices of Goods I am omniscience like your god according to your dumb logic?

Steep:
they don't need to be omniscent. Your argument is "if something is known before it happens then the person that has that knowledge caused it.
So is scientist know for sure that something will happen then they are the cause right?

Stop lying my argument was “ If he knows all things how did you exercise your free will?”
if you have someone that’s omniscience then you have no free will.
If all things is known how did you have free will?

Steep:
My world view is not subjective, I believe what is wrong is wrong universally because there is a universal creator. Atheism cannot allow for objective morality.

Is paying tithe wrong universally?

Maynmann:

If I know the prices of Goods I am omniscience like your god according to your dumb logic?

No according to your stupid logic, if you know the price of goods before hand it means you are the cause.

Maynmann:

Is paying tithe wrong universally?

paying tithe has never being wrong.

Steep:
No according to your stupid logic, if you know the price of goods before hand it means you are the cause.

If I know the prices of goods does that make me Omniscience?, if I’m omniscience that means I’m the cause of all things.

Steep:
paying tithe has never being wrong.

So what makes something wrong?
What is wrong in europe, is not wrong in Africa.

The love of God for us


John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


When Adam sinned, he lost the direct access he initially had with God. (Genesis 3) God decided to send his only begotten son (Jesus) to pay the price for our sins on the cross of calvary because of his love for us. When Christ resurrected, he restored all privileges that we once had and brought redemption to us all. All we need is to believe that he died for our sin and has once again granted us direct access with God. No longer through an intermediary! (Mathew 27:50-53).

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

If our earthly parents care so much for us, how much more our father in heaven! (Luke 11:11-13). God’s love for us is infinite. He has promised to supply all our needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. (Philipians 4:19).


Prayer of Salvation

Lord Jesus, I accept and acknowledge you as my personal lord and savior. I sincerely ask that you forgive my sins. Come into my life and pour out your spirit on me. By faith, I receive the promise of the father, which is the holy spirit. (John 14:16) I thank you for the price that you paid for me on the cross of calvary. Thank you for my redemption. I pray that your power, grace and favor will abide with me now and forever more. Amen.

Steep:
you are wrong, morality becomes object because there exist a power outside of man dmtgat determines what is right and wrong.

What exactly do you mean by "power outside of man"?

people may try to have a god after their umage but it does it negate that God exist.

What god? Which god?

The prove of God is all around. You can't have a creation without a creator.
Flat earthers claim there is no proof the earth is sphere going by your but evidence points otherwise.

A creation says nothing about its creator/creators. So it still leads back to my previous question. What god? Which god?

for theist that have same concept of God it is objective.

You're saying the same thing. If group A of theists subscribe to a concept of god that says pork is wrong, and group B subscribe to the one that says it is right, who then is correct. Until either group can prove that their god is indeed the creator of the universe, their claims to objective correctness are dead on arrival.

you don't accept proof. Otherwise the proof is all ready there.

I'm not asking for proof of A god. I'm asking for proof of YOUR god being the creator as it claims to be.

To give an analogy. Imagine a robot. I'm not asking for proof the robot was made. I'm asking for proof the robot maker is a 35 year old, 80 kg man named mark, and not literally anybody else.

Ooook soon moral law is purely a human thing, you have just confirmed what I said.
Atheism has no basis for objective morality.
So morality is basically anything I feel like or anything that benefits me or society.
All these rigmarolling is to justify your point. You shouldn't be embarrassed to say atheist world view has no true morality.

If you're going to quote me, do it correctly. Yes I said morality is a human thing. That does NOT mean it is purely subjective. I already said that before. and it is NOT a matter of personal opinion. I also said that before.

Also, atheism is not a belief system. saying atheism doesn't have a basis for objective morality is a strawman at best. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. And I've explained to you already that merely having a belief in a god does not automatically make morality objective.

Try to read through a little more carefully next time before misquoting me. thanks

Wilgrea7:


What exactly do you mean by "power outside of man"?



What god? Which god?



A creation says nothing about its creator/creators. So it still leads back to my previous question. What god? Which god?



You're saying the same thing. If group A of theists subscribe to a concept of god that says pork is wrong, and group B subscribe to the one that says it is right, who then is correct. Until either group can prove that their god is indeed the creator of the universe, their claims to objective correctness are dead on arrival.



I'm not asking for proof of A god. I'm asking for proof of YOUR god being the creator as it claims to be.

To give an analogy. Imagine a robot. I'm not asking for proof the robot was made. I'm asking for proof the robot maker is a 35 year old, 80 kg man named mark, and not literally anybody else.



If you're going to quote me, do it correctly. Yes I said morality is a human thing. That does NOT mean it is purely subjective. I already said that before. and it is NOT a matter of personal opinion. I also said that before.

Also, atheism is not a belief system. saying atheism doesn't have a basis for objective morality is a strawman at best. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. And I've explained to you already that merely having a belief in a god does not automatically make morality objective.

Try to read through a little more carefully next time before misquoting me. thanks

So as an atheist what determines what determines morality?

Steep:

So as an atheist what determines what determines morality?

You're still missing my point. Atheism isn't a set of beliefs. It makes no claims to morality.

If you're asking how i view morality as a person, that's a different case.

For us humans, well-being seems to be intrinsically linked to morality. First wellbeing of the individual, and then of the whole.

Wilgrea7:


You're still missing my point. Atheism isn't a set of beliefs. It makes no claims to morality.

If you're asking how i view morality as a person, that's a different case.

For us humans, well-being seems to be intrinsically linked to morality. First wellbeing of the individual, and then of the whole.

Why should I as an individual care for the well being of others? By the way we'll being is meaningless because we are all cosmic accidents and mind you atheism negate freewill so evil or good does not exist just atoms interacting. Oya answer

Steep:
Why should I as an individual care for the well being of others?

Wellbeing of the individual is intrinsically linked to the wellbeing of the group, since the individual is a part of the group, whether it accepts it or not.

As long as you interact with other members of the group one way or the other, your well-being is intertwined with theirs.

By the way we'll being is meaningless because we are all cosmic accidents and mind you atheism negate freewill so evil or good does not exist just atoms interacting. Oya answer

I'll try to say it a bit more slowly.

ATHEISM.... IS... SIMPLY... THE... LACK... OF... BELIEF... IN... GODS.

It makes no claim about anything else. It makes no claims about morality, or the origin of life, or freewill, or whether or not we are cosmic accidents. That's quite the handful of straws you got there.

budaatum:


The wrongness of murder, lying, fraud, cheating does not depend on individual choice. Before your Yahweh was created, Egypt, Rome, Greece, China and Yorubas along with most societies, all had laws against those wrongs. Most societies figured out for themselves that those things are detrimental to society and are therefore wrong and did not need any gods to tell them that.

Moral laws are unwritten universal laws. Everyone automatically knows what's morally wrong or right. That means, a universal entity who created the space we occupy galvanized those laws into our existence.

Moral laws are not man-made. Therefore, there's an entity higher than man.

FxMasterz:

Moral laws are unwritten universal laws. Everyone automatically knows what's morally wrong or right. That means, a universal entity who created the space we occupy galvanized those laws into our existence.
Moral laws are not man-made. Therefore, there's an entity higher than man.

Humans supposed to distinguish between evil and good because we were created in the image of God {Genesis 1:26} but due to sin we have fallen below God's glory {Romans 3:23} hence we need a counselor {Isaiah 9:6} to connect us with our heavenly father {John 14:6} without this our sinful nature will continue to distort our thinking ability no matter how kind-hearted we may be. Romans 7:15-25

POLITICS was introduced by Satan so that those following Satan's idea will always like to rule over others as demigods {Genesis 3:4-5} that's the beginning of mankind's woes.
Satan's agents have set their own standards and infused it in the brains of their subjects.

If you observe carefully you will notice that toddlers from different races, cultures, language whether rich or poor mingle together as ONE but by the time they begin attending schools (Satan's set-up to infuse his standard in their brains) things begin to change, those former toddlers who don't have any reason to discriminate will start accepting prejudice as normal.

Well that's why Jesus of Nazareth said:

"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it.” Luke 18:17

So we supposed to know what is good and what is evil but after growing up under Satan's system i'm sorry billions have lost that sense!

MaxInDHouse:


Humans supposed to distinguish between evil and good because we were created in the image of God {Genesis 1:26} but due to sin we have fallen below God's glory {Romans 3:23} hence we need a counselor {Isaiah 9:6} to connect us with our heavenly father {John 14:6} without this our sinful nature will continue to distort our thinking ability no matter how kind-hearted we may be. Romans 7:15-25

POLITICS was introduced by Satan so that those following Satan's idea will always like to rule over others as demigods {Genesis 3:4-5} that's the beginning of mankind's woes.
Satan's agents have set their own standards and infused it in the brains of their subjects.

If you observe carefully you will notice that toddlers from different races, cultures, language whether rich or poor mingle together as ONE but by the time they begin attending schools (Satan's set-up to infuse his standard in their brains) things begin to change, those former toddlers who don't have any reason to discriminate will start accepting prejudice as normal.

Well that's why Jesus of Nazareth said:

"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it.” Luke 18:17

So we supposed to know what is good and what is evil but after growing up under Satan's system i'm sorry billions have lost that sense!

All I want the Atheists to know is that Someone higher than man set the moral laws that are universally accepted by man. Laws are enacted and promulgated. They're never self existing.

This alone is a strong argument against Atheism.

This is also further strengthened by the fact that, the entire universe, not just man, operates according to set laws and rules. Scientists discovered those laws. They didn't set them. Man didn't set the laws of the universe. Someone higher than man did.

Wilgrea7:


The issue of morality isn't that simple. Even if you bring gods into the equation, the problem still remains.

There are different religions today, with different gods who claimed to be the creator of the universe, and hence the source of the moral laws, if any, in them.

So far, no god has been proven to be the creator of the universe, and therefore, no god can lay a claim to objective morality.

Morality among theists is still highly subjective, but it moves from being subjective among humans, to being subjective among gods.

god A says eating pork is wrong. god B says it's okay. That's the case we have today.

If you want to make a case for objective morality, you need to first prove the source of it, A.K.A, the god, and then prove that the moral laws set by this god are indeed from it.

Because from what it seems, moral laws, are a purely human thing. And rather than seen as subjective or objective, they appear to be somewhat progressive.

The issue is not a matter of what God a or b says. The matter is who is the true God. There obviously one God but there are many impersonators.

Someone set the universally accepted moral laws that man uses as a standard to judge right and wrong.

The universe itself operates according to set laws and rules. Scientists discover those laws. Someone higher than man set them. Laws don't create themselves. They're enacted and promulgated.

The multiplicity of gods is a lame argument against God's existence. There could be two persons claiming rulership over a city. The question is, "who is the true and substantiated king?" It's folly to conclude in this scenario that there's no king anywhere.

FxMasterz:

All I want the Atheists to know is that Someone higher than man set the moral laws that are universally accepted by man. Laws are enacted and promulgated. They're never self existing. This alone is a strong argument against Atheism. This is also further strengthened by the fact that, the entire universe, not just man, operates according to set laws and rules. Scientists discovered those laws. They didn't set them. Man didn't set the laws of the universe. Someone higher than man did.

They think humans gradually develop from lesser creatures but then how come we choose to be orderly in whatever we do?

Of all the creatures on this planet only humans continue to improve in everything we do.
WHY?
We were created in the image of God! Genesis 1:26
We can't cohabit in peace successfully without standards and the One who has the right to set such standard is the SUPREME BEING: GOD!

FxMasterz:


The issue is not a matter of what God a or b says. The matter is who is the true God. There obviously one God but there are many impersonators.

Care to enlighten me on how you arrived at this conclusion?

Someone set the universally accepted moral laws that man uses as a standard to judge right and wrong.

The universe itself operates according to set laws and rules. Scientists discover those laws. Someone higher than man set them. Laws don't create themselves. They're enacted and promulgated.

The multiplicity of gods is a lame argument against God's existence. There could be two persons claiming rulership over a city. The question is, "who is the true and substantiated king?" It's folly to conclude in this scenario that there's no king anywhere.

I never tried to use the multiplicity of gods as a way to invalidate anyone's existence. If you want to claim your god is the creator of the universe and thus the arbiter of the moral laws within it, then you need to prove it.

To use your king analogy, prove that person A is indeed the "king" as he claims to be.

Wilgrea7:

Care to enlighten me on how you arrived at this conclusion?
I never tried to use the multiplicity of gods as a way to invalidate anyone's existence. If you want to claim your god is the creator of the universe and thus the arbiter of the moral laws within it, then you need to prove it.
To use your king analogy, prove that person A is indeed the "king" as he claims to be.

Insincerity is killing you!

No king can be happy when his subjects aren't living peacefully among themselves.

The one and only true God should ensure that peace reigns among His own worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} even though they're speaking different languages they will have understanding among themselves! Zephaniah 3:9

But false Kings will not bother when those who supposed to be their subjects are killing one another! Revelation 6:3-4

WHY? Because they have no prospect for subjects that aren't their own.
So there are many unseen supernatural beings presenting themselves to humans as God {1Corinthians 8:5} since they have nothing to offer their worshipers are confused and in the face of politics and racism they will raise weapons to kill one another whereas the true God will settle all disparities among His own worshipers {Isaiah 2:4} using His active force not military might {Zechariah 4:6} to unite them as ONE! John 17:22

I have challenged you several times to request worshipers of those Gods you're saying to come and prove how real is their God but you always dodge facts!

Wilgrea7:


Wellbeing of the individual is intrinsically linked to the wellbeing of the group, since the individual is a part of the group, whether it accepts it or not.

Are you saying your well being depends on the society? Society determines what is right and wrong for you?
What do you mean by society? A collection of atoms arranged into structure by mindless cosmic process meaning morality is determined by atoms at the end of the day.

As long as you interact with other members of the group one way or the other, your well-being is intertwined with theirs.



I'll try to say it a bit more slowly.

ATHEISM.... IS... SIMPLY... THE... LACK... OF... BELIEF... IN... GODS.

It makes no claim about anything else. It makes no claims about morality, or the origin of life, or freewill, or whether or not we are cosmic accidents. That's quite the handful of straws you got there.

It does not make any sense, meaning there is no free will, nothing is wrong or right at the end of the day just what propagate the human society, murder, rape, stealing lying can be all right when they profit society which itself is nothing but a complex structure of mindless atoms.

What a pathetic unbelife atheism is.