jesustheissue:


This back and forth often amazes me, after all I often hear people say that there is only one GOD! Do we really believe so? Probably not and that must be the reason for the back and forth

AntiisIaam:


You must obey allah that was invented on you by Muhammad through his idol worshipper's father Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib

Na who dey worship Mary? We worship Jesus Christ whom the three Wiseman worshiped right from birth

AntiChristian:
It was "Yahweh" and "Jehovah" that was invented a couple of centuries ago!

AntiChristian:

Who worshipped Jesus? Lies from the pit of hell! It was just a prostration of homage according to the meaning of the word translated to "worship" and even the context!

AntiChristian:

Read and do not be ignorant!

AntiisIaam:


Jehovah revealed himself to us that he is Jehovah, no one or an idol as ever bear that name Jehovah while your allah was invented on you by muhammad through his pagan father


Isaiah 42:8

I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.





Matt.2

[1] Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
[2] Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

If it was just a prostration, what did you understand by the word then? Can you prostate without not stretching your face out in adoration? ADORATION HERE MEANS TO WORSHIP

Hubal (Arabic: هُبَل‎) was a god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably by Quraysh at the Kaaba in Mecca. Muhammad's Allah is actually Hubal, i.e. the Baal of the Moabites.

The daughters of Hubal i.e. Allat, al-ʿUzza and Manat, the three female goddess of pre-Islamic Arabia, are mentioned in the Qur'an.

Quran 53:19-20

Do you -Meccans- see the idols Al Lat and Al 'Uzza you honour and revere and regard with extreme respect and devotion

and another idol (Manat of the pagan Arabs), the other 3rd (as the daughters of Allah)

Hubal was originally the proper name of Allah in Makkah... Allah was always a proper name in the Arabic sources and not a common noun, Allah was the title used within each tribe in Pre-islamic Arabia to address tribal deity instead of its proper name and that Allah became the Islamic substitute for the name of any idol.

Hubal's known presence in the Kaʿbah, there is no polemic in the Qur'an against him. In other words, while the Qur'an railed against Allat, Manat, and al-ʿUzza, whom the pagan Arabs referred to as the "daughters of Allah", it stopped short of attacking

The pre-islamic pagan Arabs worship many gods including Allah/Hubal. The pre-islamic Arabs in which Muhammad's late father Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib was one of them knew Allah before muhammad brought Islam. Allah the name of an idol was adopted as the unique name of your Islamic god

AntiChristian:


Jehovah, Yahweh and Jesus as a name were created some few centuries back! It seems you can't deny the creation of those words!

AntiChristian:


I know you will never read the attachment! Holly spirit won't let you see it to read! Bowing down to honor is dubious to be translated as worship by your Bible translators!

AntiChristian:


You're being deceived as many humans bow down to other human in your Bible as shown in the attachment! And it wasn't translated as worship unless Jesus is involved in the narrative!

AntiChristian:


When Jesus bowed down to his father in Matthew it was not translated as worship too as small God worshipping big God!

AntiChristian:


The verses you quoted is a prove of your lies! Open that verse and give the next three verses and your lie is exposed!

AntiChristian:


Your second lie was that Allah was ever used to represent an idol!

AntiChristian:


If Allah was used as such then why did the idolaters reject becoming Muslims and worshipping only Allah?

AntiChristian:


You guys just call yourself Christians yet you keep telling brazen lies and spreading it all around!

AntiisIaam:


Has anyone, idol or image share the name Jehovah with Almighty God as allah your Islamic god share his name with Muhammad's pagan father?

Sebi you can use dictionary, check for the meaning of ADORATION..

Bible says in Mat 2:2

Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Bible used the word WORSHIP and not BOW, bobo shey you no get a copy of Bible inside your mosque again nii abi you need an interpreter?

A Case Study of Jesus Christ in the manger according to the word of God (Bible) used the word WORSHIP and NOT BOW DOWN..

Anyone bowing down for an image, a stone like kaaba, etc is nothing but AN IDOL WORSHIPER LIKE YOU MUSLIMS

To buttress your point, check for the meaning of these words boya you will understand what Bible is saying; WORSHIP (Adoration) and BOW

Does the next three verses of your Quran kicked against Al Lat, Al Uzza and Al manat as daughters of allah? Or why are these three female goddess of pre-islamic Arabia sharing their names with your Islamic god, allah?

Quran 53:20

and another idol (Manat of the pagan Arabs), the other 3rd (as the daughters of Allah)

Muhammad's late father Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib a pagan in pre-islamic Arabia was an idol worshipper that share his name with your Islamic god allah

Also, I am not the author of your glorious quran where it is written that Al-lat, Al-Uzza and Al-Manat the three female goddess in pre-islamic Arabia are daughters of allah

Muhammad's late father Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib was an idolater, did he rejected becoming a Muslim since Adam was the first Muslim according to your Quran?

We are exposing you and hammering your skull with the truths, all we are saying here has the proofs and evidences from your quran and hadith respectively

AntiChristian:

Lie Number 1
Where was Allah shared with an Idol in any Hadith or Qur'an verse? Elohim was used for YHWH (not later formed Jehovah), Angel, Man and Satan. Allah is only used for Allah.
Allah was never present physically on Earth in any Islamic text! His knowledge encompasses all things!

AntiChristian:


The Bible was not revealed in English! Jesus was not an Englishman! Read and learn!

You need to read as holy spirit has failed you! Also see attached!
https://biblehub.com/matthew/2-2.htm

AntiChristian:


proskynēsai is the word that was translated as "to worship" and it actually means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

AntiChristian:


Stop being ignorant. Assuming you read the attached now you won't spill these lies! Anyways, let me agree that you are using free mode and didn't see the pictures i attached earlier!

1. Genesis 23:7
Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites

2. Genesis 33:3
Then Jacob went on ahead. As he approached his brother, he bowed to the ground seven times before him.

3. Genesis 42:3
Now Joseph was the governor of the land, the person who sold grain to all its people. So when Joseph’s brothers arrived, they bowed down to him with their faces to the ground

4. Matthew 2:2
and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship (proskynēsai) him.”

5. Matthew 18:26
“At this the servant fell on his knees (prosekynei) before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

Compare with:

5. John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship (proskynein) in the Spirit and in truth.”

You have been deceived to believe in the English translation of your Bible where they translated everything to hype Jesus!

AntiChristian:



Quran 53:19-23 -Have you then considered Al-Lat, and Al-'Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs)

And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the other third?

Is it for you the males and for Him the females?

That indeed is a division most unfair!

They are but names which you have named, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to them the Guidance from their Lord!

AntiChristian:



Muhammad's ancestors were Ishmael and Abraham. The Arabs know Allah as their Lord from Abraham and is never represented with any idol. Just that they associate partners with Allah!

You should note that Arabian societies before Islam were not atheistic societies that denied the existence of Allaah, or societies that were unaware that there is a Lord, Creator and Provider. They knew that, and they still retained some traces of the religion of Ibraaheem, and they had contact with Jews and Christians. But their problem was that they did not worship Allaah Alone in exclusion to others; they had other gods whom they associated in worship with Him, and which they worshipped not on the basis that they were the Lord, the Creator the Provider, but because they claimed that these were intermediaries who would intercede between them and Allaah and bring them closer to Allaah. Hence Allaah said concerning them (interpretation of the meaning):
“And if you (O Muhammad) ask them: ‘Who has created the heavens and the earth,’ they will certainly say: ‘Allaah’” [Luqmaan 31:25]

This indicates that they acknowledged that Allaah is the Creator. Another aayah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And verily, if you ask them: ‘Who created the heavens and the earth?’ Surely, they will say: ‘Allaah (has created them)’”
[al-Zumar 39:38]

Many aayaat indicated that they believed in the Unity of Lordship (Tawheed al-Ruboobiyyah); their shirk was with regard to divinity (uloohiyyah), as Allaah says concerning them (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who take Awliyaa’ (protectors, helpers, lords, gods) besides Him (say): ‘We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allaah’” [al-Zumar 39:3]

i.e., they said, we only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allaah.

AntiChristian:



This is a lie! Why do you have to tell lies like this? The Qur'an did not say this in that verse!
Qur'an 53:23
They are but names which you have named, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to them the Guidance from their Lord!

AntiChristian:



Where is that in the Qur'an? You are a liar bro! Abraham's father too was an Idolater too. How does that change anything?

AntiChristian:



Truth or lies? You are one of the worst Christian liars here! How many other monikers do you have?

AntiisIaam:
AntiChristian I told you by the time I'm done with you, na to avoid this thread

fawaz050:


Because you're lying. And no matter how much he tries to clarify points to you. You keep lying and portraying distorted facts.


You're quoting Qur'an 53:19-20 and he asked you to move a little down further to verse 23, that your misconception will be clarified. You still kept on quoting 19-20. Even 19-20 did not Said that those idols where the daughter of Allah. Allah was given an analogy which you (with your bigoted mind) Will not understand until you read it to verse 23.

Verse 19:
So have you considered al-Lāt and al-ʿUzzā?

Verse 20:
And Manāt, the third - the other one?

Verse 21:
Is the male for you (the idolators) and for Him (Allah) the female?

Verse 22:
That, then, is an unjust division.

Verse 23:
They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allāh has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.

Allah said in verse 23 that he didn't authorize them as gods in any way. That the idolators are just doing that Which their soul desires.

Antichristian has already explained that the idolators know that Allah's the Lord of the Universe. But they ascribe partners to him and believed that these partners are a way to Allah. The same way Christians believe Jesus Christ is the medium to his Father or his Lord.

You're distorting facts to suit your narrative. How can one debate with someone like you?



Allah's asking them this because

AntiisIaam:


Alfa Fawaz or Sheikh Fawaz thank you for intervening in order to help your brother, AntiChristian


But you Muslims believe that allah your Islamic god, allah has no partners, why now ascribing partners with him? Who is confusing you people in islam? Is it allah the author of quran or your people in Saudi Arabia?


Second question, Why is your prophet's late idolater father Abd Allah bin Al-Muttalib has to share his name with your Islamic god, allah since muhammad was the first muslim?


Alfa Fawaz, tell your brother AntiChristian to stop lying here.. He said proskynēsai doesn't mean to worship, jor advice him not to ever practise his taqqiya on a public forum like this

fawaz050:


I leave you to your thing then.

There's no need to join word with a self-conceited green like you.

May Allah guide you to the right part.

AntiisIaam:



After exposing you both, na to jakpa abi

Your Islamic god, allah will never guide me, I'm powerful than your idol you inherited from pre-islamic Arabia

fawaz050:


Exposed? Do you think your rants here means anything?

The Qur'an says:

"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become distinct from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in ṭāghūt and believes in Allāh has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allāh is Hearing and Knowing." Qur'an 2:256.


Why would I keep arguing with you when it also said:

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." 109v6.


I have so many to do with my life bi Idhni llahi than brabble with someone who's not ready to argue constructively.

fawaz050:


Exposed? Do you think your rants here means anything?

The Qur'an says:

"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become distinct from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in ṭāghūt and believes in Allāh has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allāh is Hearing and Knowing." Qur'an 2:256.


Why would I keep arguing with you when it also said:

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." 109v6.


I have so many to do with my life bi Idhni llahi than brabble with someone who's not ready to argue constructively.

fawaz050:


Because you're lying. And no matter how much he tries to clarify points to you. You keep lying and portraying distorted facts.


You're quoting Qur'an 53:19-20 and he asked you to move a little down further to verse 23, that your misconception will be clarified. You still kept on quoting 19-20. Even 19-20 did not Said that those idols where the daughter of Allah. Allah was given an analogy which you (with your bigoted mind) Will not understand until you read it to verse 23.

Verse 19:
So have you considered al-Lāt and al-ʿUzzā?

Verse 20:
And Manāt, the third - the other one?

Verse 21:
Is the male for you (the idolators) and for Him (Allah) the female?

Verse 22:
That, then, is an unjust division.

Verse 23:
They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allāh has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.

Allah said in verse 23 that he didn't authorize them as gods in any way. That the idolators are just doing that Which their soul desires.

Antichristian has already explained that the idolators know that Allah's the Lord of the Universe. But they ascribe partners to him and believed that these partners are a way to Allah. The same way Christians believe Jesus Christ is the medium to his Father or his Lord.

You're distorting facts to suit your narrative. How can one debate with someone like you?

Allah's asking them this because