marvrick:


Point seven and final point but not the least: I searched diligently in order to prove or disprove this particular claim, I knew how controversial and important it is to know the real truth about this issue. So much depends on it as a Christian.
And to my utter amazement and a bit of horror, I was actually led by an unseen, subtle hand directing my eyes and hands to books of the Bible where two personalities were both simultaneously called God and Maker and Creator of the universe. I was scared! It felt really scary! Like as if this force wanted me to have no doubt in the least about it. And crying, balling my eyes out, I began to turn the pages of the Bible and Lo and behold! Everywhere I turned, my eyes will just fall on a verse that enforces the fact even more clearly than the last mind-numbing verse. All of them strengthening the truth that both Jesus and God are God. For your own confirmation please read the following books with eyes and mind very clear: All of Moses five books, Proverbs, Psalms, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel, Job, Revelation. Everyone of the writers of these books spoke to two different personalities called Lord and LORD. They spoke and regarded both of them as Creator of heaven and earth, the dreaded God. And even more bewildering is where you will come across God speaking and the next instant it is Jesus speaking, all within the same context!


.

Oga, which chapter and verse in your Bible?

Were the old testament prophets polytheists?

In the spiritual as well as the physical, there is hierarchy.
Two personalities can NOT, NEVER be the Heads simultaneously, whether in the spiritual or physical realms,1 Corinthians 11:3

MaxInDHouse:
Critical thinking skills is not rocket science every cool and calm person can possess it!

marvrick:


Of course the realization hit me and I wasn't really fine for many days, my system was destabilized. I was in a daze trying to comprehend it all.
It was in this mood that I got a revelation sometime later. It was revealed to me that this is one of the many mysteries of God that even the angels are in awe of. And that the angels were being treated to one of the great mysteries of God through the instrumentality of the atonement/death of Jesus. In order words, God Who made the heavens of heavens will humble Himself, condescend to the lower level of man and allow Himself to be subjected to ridicule and eventual cruel death at the hands of those he came to save. It was the "main event". Nothing in all of the wonders, powers, glory, riches ever known by the angels could compare to this particular mystery: God becoming man and for what? For insignificant man!

So let the warring parties sheath their swords. There's no need to continue fighting. The matter is beyond the realm of intellectualism or mere intelligence. It's a revelation kind of thing. One that has inherent power on its own to make a human very humble indeed. You'll turn to a born again so fast you'll not know what hit you. You'll find yourself weeping unconsolably as you realize how God allowed Himself to be roughhandled by sinful men just because of His love nature! This realization will jarr you to your very bones and you'll see reality/creation in a different light.

Lastly, you will begin to be really free because you know the truth. What is that truth? That God took human form in order to carry out an important assignment that will be of benefit to the human race, an assignment He couldn't delegate to an angel to carry out.

Janosky:


Oga,why would your own revelation be conflicting with the revelation of Jesus Christ @Revelation 3:12 & his confirmation that he is a ministering spirit, @Matthew20:28 & Hebrews 1:14?

Jokerman:
Only a confused JW will equate Angel Michael to the Lord Jesus Christ

cornelboy:

What was Jesus name before he came to earth and was named Jesus?

cornelboy:

What was Jesus name before he came to earth and was named Jesus?

Jokerman:

Did the Bible tell us that?
All we know is that... "He's the word of God, and He's God with us"

MaxInDHouse:


We don't PREACH it from house to house but that's his REAL IDENTITY so it's only revealed to interested ones who humbly request a home Bible study with us.
The "word of God" simply means the angel who always convey messages from Almighty God to all the other angels that's why one of the fallen angels said to Jesus:

“What have we to do with you, Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ? Did you come to destroy us? I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God!” Mark 1:24

Back in heaven when all the angels were with God Jesus is the purest among them that God used to pass information to all the others so all of them knew him as the Holy (Pure) one of God.

That leaves us with another question!

Who could be the Holy one among all other heavenly sons of God apart from the one called the Archangel? Jude :9

Well there are many more scriptural backings pointing to Jesus as the Archangel Michael but if you're not interested in that we will not force it into your head after all there are thousands of sects claiming Christians so if you can find a better performing group than us go and worship with them but in our midst we know the one who has always been standing for the salvation of God's people! Daniel 12:1

Jokerman:

Who did Archangel Michael call "The Lord" when he rebuked Satan over the body of Moses?

MaxInDHouse:


According to the Bible there were two persons referred to as Lord so kindly pick up your Bible and read Psalms 110:1

If you are using the KJV or other versions this is what you will find:

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.Psalms 110:1

So great confusion has set in here because David is apparently talking about two persons.

But let's see how the New World Translation rendered that same verse:

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” Psalms 110:1

So to answer your question let me quote Jude verse 9 using the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures:

But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.” Jude :9

The problem caused by translators is removal of God's divine name and replacing it with the title "LORD" so when most readers get to such verses they concluded it's all about Jesus rather God's personal name supposed to be there just as Jesus used it extensively during his earthly ministry! John 17:6, 26 compare to Matthew 6:9

May you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:


According to the Bible there were two persons referred to as Lord so kindly pick up your Bible and read Psalms 110:1

If you are using the KJV or other versions this is what you will find:

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.Psalms 110:1

So great confusion has set in here because David is apparently talking about two persons.

But let's see how the New World Translation rendered that same verse:

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” Psalms 110:1

So to answer your question let me quote Jude verse 9 using the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures:

But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.” Jude :9

The problem caused by translators is removal of God's divine name and replacing it with the title "LORD" so when most readers get to such verses they concluded it's all about Jesus rather God's personal name supposed to be there just as Jesus used it extensively during his earthly ministry! John 17:6, 26 compare to Matthew 6:9

May you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:


Michael is the one and only Archangel but if you have a contrary opinion please present a scripture where any other is called the Archangel. Jude 9

Secondly the Jews are used to calling the names of angels during their prayers but after his earthly assignment has been accomplished {John 19:30} Michael made the greatest name for himself amongst other angels so that at the mention of his earthly name "JESUS" (not Michael) all knees will bow! Phil 2:10

So it's the name "JESUS" that God introduced to obedient mankind as the one we should "LISTEN TO" {Matt 3:17; 17:5} but you people keep using the names of angels (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel) during your prayers whereas the only Son of God that died for our sins and introduced to us by the father has earned himself a new name "JESUS" and that's the only name that can connect us to the Almighty God!

That's the import of what you're quoting Sir!

Jokerman:

Archangel Michael is "one of" the chief princes.. according to the Bible, that means there are other chief princes like him...
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me twenty-one days. So Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia (Daniel 10:13).
Jesus is the unique son of God... Nothing like "one of"....
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made Him known (John 1:18).
2. Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings. He is one of the angels, he is not the Creator of the angels as the Bible says that Jesus is.
for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16).

MaxInDHouse:


OK, now you know that verse wasn't referring to Jesus shey?

All what you're quoting was said about Jesus and the Archangel Michael.

The Archangel is one of God's spirit sons and that's what the Bible called Jesus.

The Archangel is the most respected spirit son of God and that's what the Bible called Jesus.

The Archangel is a prince among the spirit sons of God and that's what the Bible called Jesus.

The Archangel apparently must be the only creature God made directly while all other things were created through him! Proverbs 8:22-30

So just as Adam is God's first born son among humans {Luke 3:38} who is responsible for all other human children of God {Genesis 1:28} that's exactly what God did with the Archangel Michael (Jesus) who is responsible for all other things created by God through him. Colossians 1:15-16

Don't forget that all humans believe God created us but through whom? Adam
The same applies to all other things created through the Archangel Michael (Jesus)

No wonder apostle Paul under inspiration equate Jesus with Adam:

“The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit! 1Corinthians 15:45

Ọmọ we don't force anyone to agree with us all we say is "If you know Jesus better than we do, go and do the works he assigned his disciples and let the world see the performance of your organization as Jesus foretold" Act 1:8

So we know that the one leading us into the achievements we're making globally today is none other than the Archangel Michael (Jesus) who will resurrect the dead with just one call! John 11:25; Daniel 12:1-2; 1Thessalonians 4:16

MaxInDHouse:


Michael is the one and only Archangel but if you have a contrary opinion please present a scripture where any other is called the Archangel. Jude 9

Secondly the Jews are used to calling the names of angels during their prayers but after his earthly assignment has been accomplished {John 19:30} Michael made the greatest name for himself amongst other angels so that at the mention of his earthly name "JESUS" (not Michael) all knees will bow! Phil 2:10

So it's the name "JESUS" that God introduced to obedient mankind as the one we should "LISTEN TO" {Matt 3:17; 17:5} but you people keep using the names of angels (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel) during your prayers whereas the only Son of God that died for our sins and introduced to us by the father has earned himself a new name "JESUS" and that's the only name that can connect us to the Almighty God!

That's the import of what you're quoting Sir!

Jokerman:

1. The book of Daniel called Michael, "one of the chief princes i.e one of the arch angels. He is not the only archangel or neither is he the only "Chief princes"
Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.... However Jesus is the unique son of God. He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Jokerman:

2.Jesus Is Not an Angel
In Hebrews 1–3, the author sets out to demonstrate that Jesus is superior to the prophets, angels, and Moses. We’re told Jesus is the ultimate revelation of God (1:1–2), the Creator of the world (1:2), and the exact imprint of God’s nature (1:3). After explicitly stating He is “much superior to angels,” the author of Hebrews writes, “For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you‘?”
The obvious answer to this hypothetical question is that God never said that to any angel. Rather, in Mark 1:11, God says to Jesus, “You are my beloved Son; with You I am well pleased.”

Jokerman:

In verse 6, we are told the angels worship Jesus. How could a created being receive worship? A created being cannot receive worship. In fact, when the apostle John fell down at an angel’s feet to worship him, the angel said, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God” (Rev. 19:10).

Jokerman:

Finally, verses 8–12 make it abundantly clear why the angels worship Jesus. It’s because He is Jehovah-God. In light of Hebrews 1, Jesus cannot be a mere created angel—even the archangel Michael.
Please read the Bible. Michael is the protector of Israel, who is protecting other countries or even the gentiles?? Oh don't you know it's only Jesus that had the power to change the whole world heading for doom.

Jokerman:

Jews never called the name of angels.
That was idol worship

MaxInDHouse:


You're wrong!
Judaists do call names of angels. After they returned from Babylon most of them mixed their beliefs with Babylonian mythology they're no longer relying only on the Mosaic laws!

MaxInDHouse:
We don't PREACH it from house to house but that's his REAL IDENTITY

so it's only revealed to interested ones who humbly request a home Bible study with us.

The "word of God" simply means the angel who always convey messages from Almighty God to all the other angels that's why one of the fallen angels said to Jesus:

“What have we to do with you, Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ? Did you come to destroy us? I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God!” Mark 1:24

Back in heaven when all the angels were with God Jesus is the purest among them

that God used to pass information to all the others so all of them knew him as the Holy (Pure) one of God.

That leaves us with another question!

Who could be the Holy one among all other heavenly sons of God apart from the one called the Archangel? Jude :9

Well there are many more scriptural backings pointing to Jesus as the Archangel Michael

but if you're not interested in that we will not force it into your head after all there are thousands of sects claiming Christians

so if you can find a better performing group than us go and worship with them

but in our midst we know the one who has always been standing for the salvation of God's people! Daniel 12:1

Jokerman:


Did the Bible tell us that?

All we know is that... "He's the word of God, and He's God with us"

Emusan:

The Word of God!
Can you quote where Jesus was called Michael from Genesis to Revelation?

cornelboy:
So the fact is Jesus had an identity before becoming human

and the clues we have in the Bible point that he is/was Michael.

Whether you agree or not doesn't change anything.

Emusan:

Which is The Word of God
Not at all, Bible never addressed Jesus as Angel Michael. You can bring the verse here.
It's you who is in denial mode.
1. God is the ONLY one ever refers to as "The HOLY ONE" and that was exactly how the evil spirit refers to Jesus because he knows who was standing before him.
2. God is the Only one ever refers to as THE BEGINNING and the New Testament called Jesus this without missing word.
3. God is the Only one ever refers to as the Creator and the New Testament says Jesus is the Creator.
So where exactly does any Bible verse called Jesus archangel Michael?

cornelboy:
That's ridiculous. The word of God is the Bible.

Jesus was with God before the beginning of creation of the world. He existed alongside with God. He was a being distinct from the Father.

Hebrews 1:3
[3]The Son radiates God’s own glory and expresses the very character of God, and he sustains everything by the mighty power of his command. When he had cleansed us from our sins, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God in heaven.

Hope you understand this verse.

After Jesus finished his first mission on earth, he was exalted to the right hand of God. That's a promotion.

So I don't know what you mean that Jesus is God's word. Explain better.

I reasoned from the Bible that Jesus/Micheal had been God's spokesman from the ancient times that's why John gave him the title "the word".

Also Jesus said that he didn't speak on authority but only says what the Father commanded him.

At revelation 1:1 we see that the revelation was handed from God to Jesus.

These are the reasons why John the apostle referred to Jesus Christ as the WORD.

cornelboy:
Lol no place in the Bible did Jesus claim to be the creator nor was he called the creator.
Bring verses 🤡🤡

Lol holy one...are the angels in heaven holy ones or not 🤣🤣

Emusan:


Angels are not The HOLY ONE!

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.* + 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence John 1:1-3 - NWT

Primary school question for you: Who brought things into existence?

"And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. Heb 1:10 NWT

Emusan:

It's not that's because you lack scriptural understanding.



Absolutely! So how can He be An Angel when Angels are all product of Creation.

Only Being who can exist outside Creation is God.



Very well! Buy do you?

Notice the @underlined part.

ONLY GOD HAS ABSOLUTE POWER TO Sustain CREATION YET THIS VERSE SAYS Jesus is the one carrying out that operation.



No doubt about that but the question is, why someone who was directly created by Jehovah according to you - JWs (which means second in command to Jehovah) will still need to be PROMOTED? Which promotion pass second in command?

The only promotion someone like VP will have is to the very President.

So for Jesus to be promoted means He never hold such post before which is the reason Paul says in Col 1:18 "...so that he might become the one who is first in all things;" NWT

The reason is that Jesus was never part of the creation but when He became part of the creation THERE'S A NEED FOR HIM TO BECOME FIRST IN ANYTHING UNDER CREATION which is the reason God COMMANDED ALL ANGELS to Worship Him.



The Bible says so not me.



Your reason is faulty that's not the reason.

John specifically says THE WORD is the Agent behind the Creation not SPOKESMAN and John never addressed Jesus as Michael



Yes because the Father sent Him as A Son.



Nobody have problem with that.



No! Not the reason. The reason is well detailed from John himself when he says in John 1:1 "In the beginning was The WORD..."

And went further to say in verse 3 that "All things came into existence through him,(The Word) + and apart from him(The Word) not even one thing came into existence. - NWT

Notice @color-red "NOT EVEN ONE THING CAME INTO EXISTENCE"

Remember ALL ANGELS including Micheal came into existence, again the ONLY BEING WHO DIDN'T CONE INTO EXISTENCE is God.

cornelboy:
God brought things into existence through his son.

Jesus used God's resources.

Janosky:

Is Daniel who wrote about the archangel Michael not a Jew?
Jokerman's claim ls NOT TRUE.

cornelboy:
God has no beginnings. But Jesus has a beginning. He existed at a point.

Dangote produces cement, does it mean he's the one that operate the machines?

God used Jesus as a tool to create everything.

God created Jesus first.

That's why he's the firstborn of creation and God's only begotten.

God created him directly.