TenQ:

2. Position of Positive Imperfect Knowledge
Examples :
*I believe that Nigeria would still be great
*I belief that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups
*I believe in one Deity
This position of belief is positive because you have reasons based on your limited knowledge to take such an optimistic position

The examples you listed are not knowledge but things you have chosen to believe "based on your limited knowledge", which is due to your laziness to go seek more knowledge to reduce your limitations. And the fact that you are positive about your ignorance just makes it much worse, because you will positively be arguing that your ignorance is knowledge and you will refuse to learn.

TenQ:

You Buda on the other hand has an intellectual capacity to hold an opinion on Deities therefore you CANNOT lack a belief on the subject of Deities.

I do lack a belief on the subject of deities because I have sufficient knowledge on the subject of deities to know instead of ignorantly believe.

You may have a belief that ₦10 is in your pocket. But after you put your hand in your pocket and check to see if there is ₦10 in you pocket, you would have no reason to believe if you have ₦10 in you pocket or not because you would know.

Go read Daniel 14. The king believed until Daniel educated him.

TenQ:
Is it untrue that you have the intellectual capacity to hold a position on Deities AND you have taken your own position on it?

Yes it is.

TenQ:
If it is true, you do not LACK a belief about deities!

No it is not true. I do not have any beliefs whatsoever about deities therefore I lack belief about deities.

I have subjected deities to sufficient scrutiny so that I may know about deities instead of stupidly merely having beliefs due to laziness to seek knowledge.

TenQ:
Cc: budaatum


You have tried. At least better than Buda and Mainman.

There exist just FOUR Possible positions anyone can take
1. Position of Perfect Knowing
Examples :
*I know that 2+16=18
*I know that Bola Ahmed Tinubu is the President of Nigeria
This is a position of certainty. You don't even need to believe because you know

2. Position of Positive Imperfect Knowledge
Examples :
*I believe that Nigeria would still be great
*I belief that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups
*I believe in one Deity
This position of belief is positive because you have reasons based on your limited knowledge to take such an optimistic position

3. Position of Negative Imperfect Knowledge
Examples :
*I do NOT believe that the Nigerian Judiciary is impartial
*I do NOT believe that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups
*I do not believe in ANY Deity

This position of belief is negative because you have reasons based on your limited knowledge to take such a negative optimistic position

4. Position of Ignorance and lack of Knowledge
Examples :
*I lack a belief that the planet Jumongo's core contain molten iron
*I lack a belief that the square root of 865,234,638,124,879,007 gives the surface area of Pluto in meter square.


The position of ignorance does not take any position positive or negative. He just doesn't have enough knowledge or information to believe or disbelieve a position. This one is a position of PERFECT AGNOSTICISM!

Like , With respect to Religion or Deities,
*A Baby is a perfect Agnostics
*A dog is a Perfect Agnostics
With respect to Science
The uneducated Farmer in the village is perfectly agnostic to believing that the Equation E=mc^2 is a True statement.


The problem with even those who call themselves Agnostics is that they have taken a NON-NEUTRAL position BY taking a position of knowledge.



You said :
I lack the belief that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups because I do not have sufficient knowledge to form such a belief.
If this was true, then you cannot argue FOR or AGAINST the fact that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups

Once you take ANY position, it means you actually have sufficient knowledge to take take such position.

What position did I take with regards to Arsenal winning both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups?

TenQ:

Once you take ANY position, it means you actually have sufficient knowledge to take take such position.

This is not true. Many times do people take positions to start businesses on what they assume is sufficient knowledge only to find out they had insufficient knowledge when they failed. Naijabet players experience it too when their heavily invested in sufficient knowledge surebet flops.

People take positions on ignorance, as in no knowledge at all, all the time, not to talk of insufficient knowledge due to lazy research.

budaatum:


The examples you listed are not knowledge but things you have chosen to believe "based on your limited knowledge", which is due to your laziness to go seek more knowledge to reduce your limitations. And the fact that you are positive about your ignorance just makes it much worse, because you will positively be arguing that your limited knowledge is knowledge and you will refuse to learn.

Even though those are not my personal opinion but examples

*I believe that Nigeria would still be great
May be because, our Judiciary is getting it right or we have a good president or INEC is getting better

*I belief that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups
May be because, they now have the best coach in the world or three of the world's best players were simultaneously signed on


Every choice in believe has a BASIS for the Choice

LordReed:


What position did I take with regards to Arsenal winning both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups?

You took the position of Perfect IGNORANCE!

budaatum:


This is not true. Many times do people take positions to start businesses on what they assume is sufficient knowledge only to find out they had insufficient knowledge when they failed. Naijabet players experience it too when their heavily invested in sufficient knowledge surebet flops.

People take positions on ignorance, as in no knowledge at all, all the time, not to talk of insufficient knowledge due to lazy research.

Yes!
Incomplete knowledge can lead to error of judgement. Even the BetNiger fool took a decision to play because he was told that he could be a millionaire overnight by betting three sure odds (not five, not six but three sure odds). Sometime, the knowledge on which a decision is made is even quite WRONG!


Example:
Putin Beleived His War with Ukraine would be a walkover
Putin took to going to war with Ukraine based on the fact that Militarily, Russia was 10 times stronger and bigger and better than Ukraine. Every analysis he did showed that the Invasion should be over in 3 days to a week.

Putin did NOT factor in
1. The Resolve of Ukrainians to be free
2. The Stubborn Comedian President Zelensky who didnt flee in fear
3. The Involvement of NATO


Do you think Putin's decision to go to War with Ukraine was IRRATIONAL?

budaatum:

I do lack a belief on the subject of deities because I have sufficient knowledge on the subject of deities to know instead of ignorantly believe.

You may have a belief that ₦10 is in your pocket. But after you put your hand in your pocket and check to see if there is ₦10 in you pocket, you would have no reason to believe if you have ₦10 in you pocket or not because you would know.

Go read Daniel 14. The king believed until Daniel educated him.


Yes it is.


No it is not true. I do not have any beliefs whatsoever about deities therefore I lack belief about deities.

I have subjected deities to sufficient scrutiny so that I may know about deities instead of stupidly merely having beliefs due to laziness to seek knowledge.

The English is simple
You Buda on the other hand has an intellectual capacity to hold an opinion on Deities therefore you CANNOT lack a belief on the subject of Deities.
Your Answer :
"I have subjected deities to sufficient scrutiny so that I may know about deities instead of stupidly merely having beliefs due to laziness to seek knowledge"



Therefore you have an Educated OPINION on the subject of Deities.

You then do not Lack a Belief.

1. You don't Know Everything with certainty of Deities
2. Your position about Deities is not of positive Belief based on your knowledge
3. Your position is not of Lacking a belief about deities
4. Your position about Deities is of Negative Belief based on your knowledge


Buda
Can one take a position of Belief if one already has a perfect knowledge?

TenQ:

You took the position of Perfect IGNORANCE!

So according to you I have taken a position of perfect ignorance and also have sufficient knowledge, can you see the contradiction?

LordReed:


So according to you I have taken a position of perfect ignorance and also have sufficient knowledge, can you see the contradiction?

No sir!

You didn't give ANY reason other than lack of knowledge

TenQ:

No sir!

You didn't give ANY reason other than lack of knowledge

You said once I have taken a position then I have sufficient knowledge did you not?

LordReed:


So according to you I have taken a position of perfect ignorance and also have sufficient knowledge, can you see the contradiction?

More aptly named as perfect folly due to the incorrigible pose.

LordReed:


You said once I have taken a position then I have sufficient knowledge did you not?

If you have taken your decision and position based on your knowledge of the subject then you cannot lack a belief on the subject.
You can only have
1. A Positive Affirming Belief
OR
2. A Negative Rejecting Belief

Image123:


More aptly named as perfect folly due to the incorrigible pose.

Strawman..!

TenQ:

If you have taken your decision and position based on your knowledge of the subject then you cannot lack a belief on the subject.
You can only have
1. A Positive Affirming Belief
OR
2. A Negative Rejecting Belief

So you agree that my position of perfect ignorance contains no belief?

LordReed:


So you agree that my position of perfect ignorance contains no belief?

Yes, I do!

If you don't know a hoot about Arsenal Nor anything about the UEFA or English Premiership Cups and someone asks you the question:
LordReed, do you BELIEVE Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups?

Your answer would Be:
I DON'T KNOW as I LACK the information to take any position of beliefs (positive or negative) on Arsenal, UEFA cup or Premiership Cup!

But once you say I don't know BUT Arsenal cannot Win, you've already taken a position of knowledge and therefore you do NOT Lack a Belief!

It is simple my dear!

TenQ:

Yes, I do!

If you don't know a hoot about Arsenal Nor anything about the UEFA or English Premiership Cups and someone asks you the question:
LordReed, do you BELIEVE Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups?

Your answer would Be:
I DON'T KNOW as I LACK the information to take any position of beliefs (positive or negative) on Arsenal, UEFA cup or Premiership Cup!

But once you say I don't know BUT Arsenal cannot Win, you've already taken a position of knowledge and therefore you do NOT Lack a Belief!

It is simple my dear!

So what problem do you have with the statement "I lack belief in a god because I do not have sufficient knowledge to form such a belief"?

LordReed:


So what problem do you have with the statement "I lack belief in a god because I do not have sufficient knowledge to form such a belief"?

You have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of a God while taking the stance of insufficient evidence as the primary excuse.

Let me give you an example:
Tinubu is being encouraged by the West and primarily France to invade Niger Republic and Repace the coup plotters.
They give motivating reasons why Nigeria should do so:
1. Nigeria is far more richer than Niger republic
2. Nigeria has a far much bigger Army
3. Nigerian Army is better trained and highly professional unlike the Nigerien Army.
4. France will support Nigeria with arms and ammunition for the exercise
President Tinubu even with these looked at Russia-Ukraine war and decides that these reasons are NOT overwhelming enough for Nigeria to take the risk

Thus, Tinubu claims (Just like you)
"I lack belief in INVADING Niger Republic because I do not have sufficient knowledge to form such a belief"

Tell me, is Tinubu's decision from a Positive BELIEF or from a Negative BELIEF or from Lack of BELIEF ?

TenQ:

You have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of a God while taking the stance of insufficient evidence as the primary excuse.

Let me give you an example:
Tinubu is being encouraged by the West and primarily France to invade Niger Republic and Repace the coup plotters.
They give motivating reasons why Nigeria should do so:
1. Nigeria is far more richer than Niger republic
2. Nigeria has a far much bigger Army
3. Nigerian Army is better trained and highly professional unlike the Nigerien Army.
4. France will support Nigeria with arms and ammunition for the exercise
President Tinubu even with these looked at Russia-Ukraine war and decides that these reasons are NOT overwhelming enough for Nigeria to take the risk

Thus, Tinubu claims
"I lack belief in INVADING Niger Republic because I do not have sufficient knowledge to form such a belief"

Tell me, is Tinubu's decision from a Positive BELIEF or from a Negative BELIEF or from Lack of BELIEF ?

God is a title not a person, same way president is a title not a person.

Since you said the “name” of the president, tinubu.
Then the “name” of your god is ?


Then use your analogy for the other different gods you also lack belief in.

TenQ:

You have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of a God while taking the stance of insufficient evidence as the primary excuse.

Let me give you an example:
Tinubu is being encouraged by the West and primarily France to invade Niger Republic and Repace the coup plotters.
They give motivating reasons why Nigeria should do so:
1. Nigeria is far more richer than Niger republic
2. Nigeria has a far much bigger Army
3. Nigerian Army is better trained and highly professional unlike the Nigerien Army.
4. France will support Nigeria with arms and ammunition for the exercise
President Tinubu even with these looked at Russia-Ukraine war and decides that these reasons are NOT overwhelming enough for Nigeria to take the risk

Thus, Tinubu claims (Just like you)
"I lack belief in INVADING Niger Republic because I do not have sufficient knowledge to form such a belief"

Tell me, is Tinubu's decision from a Positive BELIEF or from a Negative BELIEF or from Lack of BELIEF ?

How do I have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of a god?

LordReed:


How do I have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of a god?

You already have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of God: therefore , it is a question you need to ask yourself and not me how you came to such a conclusion.

This is why you are ALWAYS predictably against the idea of having a God that you can't help to "derogatively" type "god" instead of "God" !

TenQ:

This is why you are ALWAYS predictably against the idea of having a God that you can't help to "derogatively" type "god" instead of "God" !

Even though changing god from God is the work of English orthography to denote any monotheist god.

Which “Gods” are you talking about?

TenQ:

You already have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of God: therefore , it is a question you need to ask yourself and not me how you came to such a conclusion.

This is why you are ALWAYS predictably against the idea of having a God that you can't help to "derogatively" type "god" instead of "God" !

I said I don't have sufficient knowledge but you say I do so show me how I have sufficient knowledge to reject the existence of a god.

God is a title or the label for a category and as far as I am aware there is no sufficient knowledge to capitalise that title or label for any being. If you see that as derogatory then that is your own bias not mine.

TenQ:

You already have enough knowledge to reject the idea of the existence of God: therefore , it is a question you need to ask yourself and not me how you came to such a conclusion.

If you have sufficient knowledge for your own god then why do you have to be believe again as a theist?
You will be a gnostic.

And gnostic is the origin of your religion not theism.
Theism is the work of Rome, Roman Catholic, even the word theism and atheism is from greek.

In your collection of books, it says, seek wisdom not beliefs.
People perish because of knowledge not beliefs.

LordReed:


I said I don't have sufficient knowledge but you say I do so show me how I have sufficient knowledge to reject the existence of a god.

God is a title or the label for a category and as far as I am aware there is no sufficient knowledge to capitalise that title or label for any being. If you see that as derogatory then that is your own bias not mine.

Let me test your sincerity
Which of these do you align with
1. You understand the concept of God as the Creator of everything
2. You have studied to some extent arguments for and against this concept of God
3. You have concluded from your studies that the evidence FOR God is not convincing enough

Are These three TRUE about you?

TenQ:

Let me test your sincerity
Which of these do you align with
1. You understand the concept of God as the Creator of everything
2. You have studied to some extent arguments for and against this concept of God
3. You have concluded from your studies that the evidence FOR God is not convincing enough

Are These three TRUE about you?

😂😂

TenQ:

Let me test your sincerity
Which of these do you align with
1. You understand the concept of God as the Creator of everything
2. You have studied to some extent arguments for and against this concept of God
3. You have concluded from your studies that the evidence FOR God is not convincing enough

Are These three TRUE about you?

Neither. Increasingly the concept of what a god is has become incoherent and ambiguous to my understanding. Because of this unravelling, I can no longer give credence to any other question based on it while the concept of what a god is remains unresolved.

In case you think this is a dodge I will post places where before now I have expressed similar sentiments.
https://www.nairaland.com/7796227/agnosticism-journey#124986478
https://www.nairaland.com/7780542/agnosticism-most-scientific-answer-question/21#125014776
https://www.nairaland.com/7796227/agnosticism-journey/2#124995200

LordReed:


Neither. Increasingly the concept of what a god is has become incoherent and ambiguous to my understanding. Because of this unravelling, I can no longer give credence to any other question based on it while the concept of what a god is remains unresolved.

In case you think this is a dodge I will post places where before now I have expressed similar sentiments.
https://www.nairaland.com/7796227/agnosticism-journey#124986478
https://www.nairaland.com/7780542/agnosticism-most-scientific-answer-question/21#125014776
https://www.nairaland.com/7796227/agnosticism-journey/2#124995200

Lolz, because you always want to fit the oceanic understanding of God into your small dirty cup of logic.

LordReed:


Neither. Increasingly the concept of what a god is has become incoherent and ambiguous to my understanding. Because of this unravelling, I can no longer give credence to any other question based on it while the concept of what a god is remains unresolved.

In case you think this is a dodge I will post places where before now I have expressed similar sentiments.
https://www.nairaland.com/7796227/agnosticism-journey#124986478
https://www.nairaland.com/7780542/agnosticism-most-scientific-answer-question/21#125014776
https://www.nairaland.com/7796227/agnosticism-journey/2#124995200

It is actually a dodge as I am not asking you about the Christian God or any particular God except that God as the title of the sole Creator of the Universe.

You don't have to agree with the concept of God (this is not the purpose of the question)

1. You understand the concept of God as the Creator of everything

TenQ:

It is actually a dodge as I am not asking you about the Christian God or any particular God except that God as the title of the sole Creator of the Universe.

You don't have to agree with the concept of God (this is not the purpose of the question)

1. You understand the concept of God as the Creator of everything

That’s a Monotheistic Concept of god.

TenQ:

It is actually a dodge as I am not asking you about the Christian God or any particular God except that God as the title of the sole Creator of the Universe.

You don't have to agree with the concept of God (this is not the purpose of the question)

1. You understand the concept of God as the Creator of everything

It's not is not a question of agreement. I just told you the concept of what a god is, any type of god, has eluded my understanding.

LordReed:


It's not is not a question of agreement. I just told you the concept of what a god is, any type of god, has eluded my understanding.

Have you ever heard that God is the sole Creator of everything?
And that God is a Living Being?
And that God is self Existing?

This is the concept of God! You don't have to agree with it as that wasn't the question


Back to the Question!
1. You understand the concept of God as the Creator of everything