Deadlytruth:

The bolded are the reasons many people don't like engaging the average Igbo man in a debate. These are innuendos and adhominem attacks which don't make your case but actually prove you to be the wrong person in the eyes of an unbiased umpire. Why not just make your argument with facts and logic rather than all these which are sure to degenerate the thread into a spree of insults should your opponent decide to give it back to you in the same coin? Is it that you Igbos can't engage decently without emotions? That said, your defenses on the issue of whether an enemy can be invited to settle rifts shows that you still have a lot of work to do in understanding the laws of power and also in understanding that the enmity between Awolowo and Zik was not personal but political and ideological. Same with that between Ojukwu and Zik.

Mind you that I said Ojukwu didn't attend Zik's funeral. I don't know how you interpreted that to mean me saying that Ojukwu spoke I'll of Zik. Read it all over again.

Dude it is not about trouble with engaging an igbo man in a debate, you are not comfortable with the fact that certain accusations which you feel are not to contested are being contested with facts . There is not emotion there, you stated that Ojukwu didn't attend Zik's burial that was because your intention was clearly to lend credence to your statement that an enemy can mediate in an issue. But you failed to realise that Ojukwu had reasons which you and i do not know and no one has ever even in his family said anything contrary about it.

Irony1:


Please can you define what is a region? Are they not a group of provinces. and Ironsi only stated that they would report to him as head of state, but they still had autonomy in carrying out the day to day running of their regions. Please what was different there? also note the only thing Ironsi did was to collapse the Civil service and the Regional Hierarchy to a central command like structure similar to the military(i see nothing bad there) to make it easier for him. The revenue systems were still intact. so quit being half clever. It was Gowon and not Ironsi that is to blame for the splitting of the regions to states

Let me even agree with you hypothetically that regions are same as groups of provinces hence Ironsi's groups of provinces equated to regions back then. In the same vein we can argue that the presence of six regions now (SS, SE, SW, NC, NE and NW) currently in Nigeria automatically means we are practicing regional system and resource control. If that were to be, then why are people including you now asking for a return to regional system when we already have six regions presently? Definitely you would answer that we don't practice regional system because the regions we presently have are not legal entities and have no constitutional recognition. That was exactly the situation under Ironsi. The regions or quasi regions he had in place were not legal entities and he himself said in his own decree (military constitution) that he didn't recognize them.

The argument that Ironsi only unified the civil service even proves more than anything else that Ironsi actually killed true federalism in Nigeria. If you go back to your SS 2 Government textbook and open to the chapter which dwells on Civil Service as a topic, you will see it written there that the civil service is the engine room of any government hence the only legal entity by which any tier of government functions and performs it duties of generating revenue, collecting taxes, paying salaries, sponsoring projects etc. Now, if as a military head of state you unify the regional civil services into one under the government at the center, then you have automatically stripped the regions of their powers to function, generate revenue, collect taxes, tap her resources, etc thus killing resource control and true federalism. Would civil servants under a unified civil service generate revenue and remit them to the regional governors? So by unifying the civil service Ironsi killed regional autonomy and true federalism.

Irony1:


Dude it is not about trouble with engaging an igbo man in a debate, you are not comfortable with the fact that certain accusations which you feel are not to contested are being contested with facts . There is not emotion there, you stated that Ojukwu didn't attend Zik's burial that was because your intention was clearly to lend credence to your statement that an enemy can mediate in an issue. But you failed to realise that Ojukwu had reasons which you and i do not know and no one has ever even in his family said anything contrary about it.

Ojukwu had no personal grudges with Zik. You are just using sophistory to save face. If he had such grudges, then why are you finding it difficult to state it here?

You are contesting my accusations with emotional outbursts only and not facts.

Acekidc4:
Igbos are the first People to Betray all the other Tribes in Nigeria. They're the first Betrayer of Nigeria cos of Power Hungriness!! Yeye People!!

.

complexstuffs:
Some say IIGB0S are a cursed tribe

Yes they are CURSED

Irony1:


You will soon be picked up

I take His beg you to do it

Deadlytruth:


Ojukwu had no personal grudges with Zik. You are just using sophistory to save face. If he had such grudges, then why are you finding it difficult to state it here?

You are contesting my accusations with emotional outbursts only and not facts.

Oga stop blowing grammar that you cannot even defend. Who are you trying to deceive here? Oga you ate the one trying to be evasive. Your aim of using Ojukwu and Zik was to illustrate how enemies can be arbiters in issues. Now you want to cunningly spin it on me.

Deadlytruth:
Let me even agree with you hypothetically that regions are same as groups of provinces hence Ironsi's groups of provinces equated to regions back then. In the same vein we can argue that the presence of six regions now (SS, SE, SW, NC, NE and NW) currently in Nigeria automatically means we are practicing regional system and resource control. If that were to be, then why are people including you now asking for a return to regional system when we already have six regions presently? Definitely you would answer that we don't practice regional system because the regions we presently have are not legal entities and have no constitutional recognition. That was exactly the situation under Ironsi. The regions or quasi regions he had in place were not legal entities and he himself said in his own decree (military constitution) that he didn't recognize them.

The argument that Ironsi only unified the civil service even proves more than anything else that Ironsi actually killed true federalism in Nigeria. If you go back to your SS 2 Government textbook and open to the chapter which dwells on Civil Service as a topic, you will see it written there that the civil service is the engine room of any government hence the only legal entity by which any tier of government functions and performs it duties of generating revenue, collecting taxes, paying salaries, sponsoring projects etc. Now, if as a military head of state you unify the regional civil services into one under the government at the center, then you have automatically stripped the regions of their powers to function, generate revenue, collect taxes, tap her resources, etc thus killing resource control and true federalism. Would civil servants under a unified civil service generate revenue and remit them to the regional governors? So by unifying the civil service Ironsi killed regional autonomy and true federalism.

Ironsi didn't kill true federalism. He only made the instruments of authority similar to a command structure of the Army. But he never interfered with the instrument of federalism in Nigeria unlike what Gowon did.

dey lie like mugu,Nnamdi had before the election assured the south west that they would work together,infact after the election Nnamdi fixed the meeting in asaba,while south west leaders headed to meet him in asaba,he Nnamdi headed for the north,SOUTH West leaders where still in asaba when a deal was announced.and Nnamdi said that the north were foolish people hence why he preferred them to the south west.
you can deceive yourself all you like the records are there and they speak for themselves.the Igbo have two choices.they either swear there loyality to Nigeria and stop there stupidity of over 70 years,or leave nigeria,we are tired of them.
are they good Igbo yes,infact those that are good are very good,but the majority are a problem to nigeria and this cut across class,educational back ground an average Igbo man wishes to dominate anywhere he goes,hence why Nigerians are hated everywhere in the world,second an average Igbo man never takes responsibility for his action,there is always an excuse and it is always someboides fault never there own.

Irony1:


You see why I said you have no sense. Never was there anytime Zik made a deal with the North for presidency. Note that after the parliamentary elections there was no clear Majority between the parties. NPC was first NCNC was second and AG was third. But the law stated that a coalition would ensure majority and appoint prime minister. Sardauna told the British that any coalition between the parties in the south would make the North not be interested in power. Mind you in the Lancaster agreement that all the so called founding fathers Awo inclusive signed with the British it stated that as a precondition for independence, all the borders of colonial Nigeria must not be drawn in anyway that was why the anti secession clause was written.
Back to the elections, the British fearing that the north will not join and being weary of losing the north to the French colonies, stated that a majority government can only be formed by a coalition between NPC and any of the parties in the south. The irony is that AG through Akintola at the behest of Awo wanted to secretly push for a coalition with NPC. It was Sardauna himself that called Zik while Zik was in Asaba meeting with Awo, that AG were with him discussing coalition(tell me who was the greedy one here). Zik sensing the game now agreed to the coalition with NPC and infact the British never wanted AG in that coalition.
Go and read the book the "End of an empire" you will see declassified colonial documents on the Nigeria's elections and independence.
You see these propaganda games from you no dey work. Try and have sense or you will be arrested for ethnic baiting.

Irony1:

Oga then shut up and allow me follow up with you and your kind

kid

Irony1:

Well i do not need any noise, it is easy to track these people

you better find better job Mr tracker


a joke

Irony1:


Ironsi didn't kill true federalism. He only made the instruments of authority similar to a command structure of the Army. But he never interfered with the instrument of federalism in Nigeria unlike what Gowon did.

It is not impossible for the army to govern without a centralized structure. Ironsi did it from January 17 till May 24 when he operated a Federal Military Government as he himself acknowledged in his May 24 national broadcast. The problem started when he announced in the same broadcast that he was no longer able to continue running a Federal military government hence was by Decree 34 changing to a National Military Government.
The question now is, if he was able to run a Federal Military Government from January 17 to May 24 (4 months and 7 days) then who says military government can only be run through a centralized system?
If we are to accept that military government can't be run without centralization of powers and revenue sources, then why did Ojukwu, an army officer,propose to Gowon a very decentralized system at Aburi? Wasn't he aware that Gowon's government was a military one which, by your, argument could only thrive on centralization as Ironsi did in his time? Why cry betrayal and victimization when Gowon reneged on Aburi Accord knowing fully well that, as someone running a military government, he could not afford to accept such proposal going by the same argument you are using to justify Ironsi's centralized structure as a military ruler?

Irony1:


Ironsi didn't kill true federalism. He only made the instruments of authority similar to a command structure of the Army. But he never interfered with the instrument of federalism in Nigeria unlike what Gowon did.

The central instrument of federalism is the civil service, and you yourself confessed that Ironsi altered the civil service structure. So what other evidence or fact do you need to know that it was Ironsi that killed true federalism in Nigeria?

Deadlytruth:

The central instrument of federalism is the civil service, and you yourself confessed that Ironsi altered the civil service structure. So what other evidence or fact do you need to know that it was Ironsi that killed true federalism in Nigeria?

Bros stop being evasive. The civil service has always been structured into two federal or regional civil service. The consolidation happened in the federal civil service and he allowed the regional governors to control he regional civil service. The problem the northerners had with this is that the movement from state to federal civil service will keep them at a disadvantage because they cannot compete with their fellow southern counterparts. Ironsi didn't kill true federalism stop trying to play coy in this argument you are not making sense

Deadlytruth:

It is not impossible for the army to govern without a centralized structure. Ironsi did it from January 17 till May 24 when he operated a Federal Military Government as he himself acknowledged in his May 24 national broadcast. The problem started when he announced in the same broadcast that he was no longer able to continue running a Federal military government hence was by Decree 34 changing to a National Military Government.
The question now is, if he was able to run a Federal Military Government from January 17 to May 24 (4 months and 7 days) then who says military government can only be run through a centralized system?
If we are to accept that military government can't be run without centralization of powers and revenue sources, then why did Ojukwu, an army officer,propose to Gowon a very decentralized system at Aburi? Wasn't he aware that Gowon's government was a military one which, by your, argument could only thrive on centralization as Ironsi did in his time? Why cry betrayal and victimization when Gowon reneged on Aburi Accord knowing fully well that, as someone running a military government, he could not afford to accept such proposal going by the same argument you are using to justify Ironsi's centralized structure as a military ruler?

You keep jumbling points. National and Federal military government are just nomenclature nothing more. Ironsi i repeat only centralized the federal civil service structure nothing more. The regional civil service apparatus was not touched. Ironsi didn't destroy regional system of government, Gowon did. Ojukwu proposed a confederate system of government almost akin to different countries in one loose federation it is not decentralized system, stop trying to play smart.

Timothy89:



kid

infant

LaRosa01:
dey lie like mugu,Nnamdi had before the election assured the south west that they would work together,infact after the election Nnamdi fixed the meeting in asaba,while south west leaders headed to meet him in asaba,he Nnamdi headed for the north,SOUTH West leaders where still in asaba when a deal was announced.and Nnamdi said that the north were foolish people hence why he preferred them to the south west.
you can deceive yourself all you like the records are there and they speak for themselves.the Igbo have two choices.they either swear there loyality to Nigeria and stop there stupidity of over 70 years,or leave nigeria,we are tired of them.
are they good Igbo yes,infact those that are good are very good,but the majority are a problem to nigeria and this cut across class,educational back ground an average Igbo man wishes to dominate anywhere he goes,hence why Nigerians are hated everywhere in the world,second an average Igbo man never takes responsibility for his action,there is always an excuse and it is always someboides fault never there own.

Well i didn't expect a stupid person like you to argue sensibly. I have shown you proof from declassified british documents used in the book "the end of an empire" but in your stupidity, you cannot even make logical sense

Irony1:


Bros stop being evasive. The civil service has always been structured into two federal or regional civil service. The consolidation happened in the federal civil service and he allowed the regional governors to control he regional civil service. [i]The problem the northerners had with this is that the movement from state to federal civil service will keep them at a disadvantage because they cannot compete with their fellow southern counterparts. [/i]Ironsi didn't kill true federalism stop trying to play coy in this argument you are not making sense

The very essence of decentralizing the civil service through the McPherson's constitution in the first instance was to promote healthy competition which is different from unhealthy rivalry that the centralized system in force prior to that time caused. Northerners were not afraid of healthy competition but unhealthy rivalry which they and indeed every sincere Nigerian knew would befall the country through a centralized system and lead to tribalism, corruption, unaccountable government at the center, the existence of cabal and power brokers, and all the Ills which have befallen Nigeria ever since Ironsi led the military to misadventure into politics.
You say that Northerners were afraid of competing with Southerners under a unified civil service? I laugh! Is it the Northerners that are complaining of social injustice today under this very centralized system or you Igbos who assumed you would be the champions of the game if it became so? A fair competition is where each competitor is allowed to use her own endowments and skills without any one else dictating to him. So how did a centralized civil service subject to the whims and caprices of one person at the center amount to an atmosphere of fair competition?
And if anything, it was even you Igbos that were actually afraid of healthy competition in the sense that:
1. For being the tribe most scattered already over every other region, true federalism by its nature was going to put checks and balances on your excesses. For example under true federalism, a person resident in a state or region other than his will not be granted certain privileges, like children's scholarships, housing allowances, subsidizes on personal effects, tax rebates, etc, which the natives of that state or region enjoy until after some years that the non indigene is approved as qualified to enjoy same. This was why Igbos hated federalism as it curtailed them from their natural tendency to drag other regions' resource and land with the indigenes. That also explains why Azikiwe was preaching one Nigeria and a fraudulent nationalism with which he inspired Ironsi and co to destroy the federalism.

Irony1:

infant

If hand reach you, you do dey pee for body, na me you dey threaten with arrest? you're dumb I swear



you're taking what I'm seeing as cruise too far. na me you dey use threaten and tracking threaten? make I no change am for you

Timothy89:



If hand reach you, you do dey pee for body, na me you dey threaten with arrest? you're dumb I swear



you're taking what I'm seeing as cruise too far. na me you dey use threaten and tracking threaten? make I no change am for you

Who are you? Stop overestimating your importance.

Deadlytruth:


The very essence of decentralizing the civil service through the McPherson's constitution in the first instance was to promote healthy competition which is different from unhealthy rivalry that the centralized system in force prior to that time caused. Northerners were not afraid of healthy competition but unhealthy rivalry which they and indeed every sincere Nigerian knew would befall the country through a centralized system and lead to tribalism, corruption, unaccountable government at the center, the existence of cabal and power brokers, and all the Ills which have befallen Nigeria ever since Ironsi led the military to misadventure into politics.
You say that Northerners were afraid of competing with Southerners under a unified civil service? I laugh! Is it the Northerners that are complaining of social injustice today under this very centralized system or you Igbos who assumed you would be the champions of the game if it became so? A fair competition is where each competitor is allowed to use her own endowments and skills without any one else dictating to him. So how did a centralized civil service subject to the whims and caprices of one person at the center amount to an atmosphere of fair competition?
And if anything, it was even you Igbos that were actually afraid of healthy competition in the sense that:
1. For being the tribe most scattered already over every other region, true federalism by its nature was going to put checks and balances on your excesses. For example under true federalism, a person resident in a state or region other than his will not be granted certain privileges, like children's scholarships, housing allowances, subsidizes on personal effects, tax rebates, etc, which the natives of that state or region enjoy until after some years that the non indigene is approved as qualified to enjoy same. This was why Igbos hated federalism as it curtailed them from their natural tendency to drag other regions' resource and land with the indigenes. That also explains why Azikiwe was preaching one Nigeria and a fraudulent nationalism with which he inspired Ironsi and co to destroy the federalism.

Oga face it Ironsi didn't destroy federalism the northerners were opposed to the decree because they couldn't compete with the southerners in the civil service. There was no tribalism behind it. It was Ironsi's way of trying to mimic a central command structure and he didn't interfere or consolidate the regional civil service and up till now you have not provided an answer. Again Zik and Ironsi are two different scenarios Zik didn't in anyway inspire Ironsi. So please stop showcasing your hatred and tribalistic boas in HD. Face it whatever way you want to switch it. Ironsi didn't destroy federalism, okay why haven't you blamed Gowon for now reversing it when he had the chance to do that or Awolowo when he was Finance minister under Gowon. Please leave that mam to rest in peace you are directing your hatred at the wrong person. The question is of Gowon's region were vehemently opposed to the decree and they felt that Ironsi was partial when they got into power why didn't they reverse it?

Irony1:


Who are you? Stop overestimating your importance.

just bring yourself and those you want to use to arrest me first then you will know water and blood ain't same



you this small pikin online, just because this is public forum you think you can be bragging with me on this forum



who dey buy you kid smartphone sef

no be Igbo man you be,see how your brain works,you showed who proof?where is the proof ,you write rubbish turn history on its head,then call it proof,if I check you never reach 35,come dey argue matter with your fathers mate that has worked for government In capacities your generation never reach.

Irony1:


Well i didn't expect a stupid person like you to argue sensibly. I have shown you proof from declassified british documents used in the book "the end of an empire" but in your stupidity, you cannot even make logical sense

LaRosa01:
no be Igbo man you be,see how your brain works,you showed who proof?where is the proof ,you write rubbish turn history on its head,then call it proof,if I check you never reach 35,come dey argue matter with your fathers mate that has worked for government In capacities your generation never reach.

Dude you don't have sense. You have not even checked if the source i have exists but you chose to tag it rubbish because it makes nonsense out of all the lies that has been told all these years.

Oga go and rest you have failed.

Timothy89:



just bring yourself and those you want to use to arrest me first then you will know water and blood ain't same



you this small pikin online, just because this is public forum you think you can be bragging with me on this forum



who dey buy you kid smartphone sef

Oga you are making too much noise. Just try it first naaaa

source?I should help you to do research?you no well.
find the page you claimed that fake news is from snap it and put it up for the world to see.that is evidence not any fake manipulation you write.

in any case please as a champion for Igbo right make una go form una country,we Nigerians are tired of you all,please make una go.

Irony1:


Dude you don't have sense. You have not even checked if the source i have exists but you chose to tag it rubbish because it makes nonsense out of all the lies that has been told all these years.

Oga go and rest you have failed.

LaRosa01:
source?I should help you to do research?you no well.
find the page you claimed that fake news is from snap it and put it up for the world to see.that is evidence not any fake manipulation you write.

in any case please as a champion for Igbo right make una go form una country,we Nigerians are tired of you all,please make una go.

Oga rest you have lost this one big time

Irony1:


guy can you stop being a liar and have conscience. Please were the regions not intact when decree 34 was promulgated? and again the decree 8 from Gowon was a civil war strategy it was never meant for unity. That is whY Gowon in recent years said the creation of states created more division than unity.

Please for once in this your miserable life stop lying. another lie again from you is that the coup was to prevent the COR region, na wahh oooooo the way you people lie in this forum is really shocking, when there was never any referendum from Balewa administration like the one that led to midwest creation. haaa make una fear God and stop this ethnic baiting it is a crime and you will be arrested for this.

Dey decieve yourselves in that your yeast.

Ironsi destroyed Federalism .


Gowon's decree 8 is what we are practicing today but without fiscal and military autonomy.

Deadlytruth:
Let me even agree with you hypothetically that regions are same as groups of provinces hence Ironsi's groups of provinces equated to regions back then. In the same vein we can argue that the presence of six regions now (SS, SE, SW, NC, NE and NW) currently in Nigeria automatically means we are practicing regional system and resource control. If that were to be, then why are people including you now asking for a return to regional system when we already have six regions presently? Definitely you would answer that we don't practice regional system because the regions we presently have are not legal entities and have no constitutional recognition. That was exactly the situation under Ironsi. The regions or quasi regions he had in place were not legal entities and he himself said in his own decree (military constitution) that he didn't recognize them.

The argument that Ironsi only unified the civil service even proves more than anything else that Ironsi actually killed true federalism in Nigeria. If you go back to your SS 2 Government textbook and open to the chapter which dwells on Civil Service as a topic, you will see it written there that the civil service is the engine room of any government hence the only legal entity by which any tier of government functions and performs it duties of generating revenue, collecting taxes, paying salaries, sponsoring projects etc. Now, if as a military head of state you unify the regional civil services into one under the government at the center, then you have automatically stripped the regions of their powers to function, generate revenue, collect taxes, tap her resources, etc thus killing resource control and true federalism. Would civil servants under a unified civil service generate revenue and remit them to the regional governors? So by unifying the civil service Ironsi killed regional autonomy and true federalism.

This is a lame attempt to blame Ironsi for what he did not do. So a civil servant in the Eastern or Western Region will stop doing his or her duties to the Region that pays him or her because there was unification? The only way Ironsi could have denied the Regions control of their resources or appropriated what was due to them, was by decree. Which decree did Ironsi pass altering the revenue shearing formula agreed at independence? None

But Gowon came after Ironsi, used decree 14 to dissolve all 4 Regions, created 12 new states, then used decree 15 to end resource control. Would Gowon be ending resource control with decree 15 if Ironsi had already done it?

Stop spreading falsehood and lies, Gowons decree 14 and 15 are on the internet for all to read

For years you people kept spreading lies about Ironsi, not knowing that the age of social media would come when lies can be debunked at the click of a button

Google Gowons decree 14 and 15 and cure your ignorance

gidgiddy:


This a lame attempt to blame Ironsi for what he did not do. So a civil servant in the Eastern or Western Region will stop doing his her duties to tye Region thst pays him or her because their was unification? The only way Ironsi could have denied the Regions control of their resources or appropriated what was due to them was by decree. Which decree did Ironsi pass altering the revenue shearing formula agreed at independence? None

But Gowon came after Ironsi, used decree 14 to dissolve all 4 Regions, created 12 new states, then used decree 15 to end resource control. Woukd Gowon be ending resource control with decree 15 if Ironsi had already done it

Stop spreading falsehood and lies, Gowons decree 14 and 15 are on the internet for all to read

For years you people kept spreading lies about Ironsi, not knowing that the age of social media would come when lies can be debunked at the click of a button

Google Gowons decree 14 and 15 and cure your ignorance

Keep spewing your saliva tainted lies about Gowon being the one who destroyed the regions.

It was your useless Ironsi that reduced regions to provinces .


Gowon reverted that nonesense and instead created states.


Do only hangover from your Ironsi decree 34 was resource control especially concerning oil nationalisation that put the oil wealth in the hands of the federal government and this was Obasanjo's doing .

Stop blaming Gowon you this inebriated 0koro palm wine drunk.

DomPerignon:


Keep spewing your saliva tainted lies about Gowon being the one who destroyed the regions.

It was your useless Ironsi that reduced regions to provinces .


Gowon reverted that nonesense and instead created states.


Do only hangover from your Ironsi decree 34 was resource control especially concerning oil nationalisation that put the oil wealth in the hands of the federal government and this was Obasanjo's doing .

Stop blaming Gowon you this inebriated 0koro palm wine drunk.

Laughable historical reprobates.

Gowons Decree 14 and 15 are already plastered all over the internet to tell the present and future generations the truth

The rest of you can keep talking nonsense

gidgiddy:



Laughable historical reprobates.

Gowons Decree 14 and 15 are already plastered all over the internet to tell the present and future generations the truth

The rest of you can keep talking nonsense

I laugh.

Ibo historian that has a very bias recollection of events between 1966 to 1967.


This is your only field of expertise - spewing handed down Biafra propaganda and IPOB lies.


History my ass.