MaxInDHouse:


Perhaps you have forgotten that the Holy Spirit was sent to continue the work Jesus did among imperfect humans:

"And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever" John 14:16

Jesus is the PERFECT helper guiding IMPERFECT humans to do God's will so the Holy Spirit has come to replace him therefore don't think their understanding became perfect after the Holy Spirit came:

"For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially" 1Corinthians 13:9

Do you want to tell me that Apostle Paul don't know what he was saying in the above or the Holy Spirit has not come to teach them?

it will only continue to guide them into all truth just as Jesus was CORRECTING them anytime they needed it. John 14:26-27

So what will be the EVIDENCE that God's Holy Spirit is working with them?
They will be able to continue doing God's will despite their imperfection and errors because God's Holy Spirit is there with them guiding them always! Act 1:8 compare to Proverbs 24:16

That's why i keep asking you to present the group that's performing better than Jehovah's Witnesses if truly you know the WORK of God's Holy Spirit!

Sand2022:

You have not mentioned any flipflop by the apostles, neither have you shown them accusing the holy spirit for any wrong understanding like you guys do. Let me show you how your Founder Russell saw flipflop. He says: "If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now;… But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New Light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it…" Zion's Watch Tower 1881 Feb pp.3,188 So your leader, whom you say God used above other church leaders says that the situation that your religion now found itself aka flipflop is an evidence of human followership. That for God, never can there be flipflop. I concur with your leader. Unfortunately, you now call the so called God ordained leader a false teacher.

Sand2022:

You don't get the point, do you? If the holy spirit reveals a truth to you, it is truth, it can't change or be extinguished by another truth from the same spirit. Common bro. Can you listen to yourself?

MaxInDHouse:


Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word "FALSE"
Ordained minister under Christ have a duty:
To ORGANIZE Jesus' sheep so that they go on preaching zealously and industriously teaching in all their neighbourhood {Matthew 28:19-20} with that the result is that among all adherents of their TEACHINGS there must be no division {1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3} and LOVE will permeate their gathering so that all those adhering to their teachings will no longer think of lifting weapons against anyone again as disciples of the Prince of Peace! Act 1:8

Did the GOVERNING BODY of Jehovah's Witnesses meet up with this assignment?

If they do whatever errors they made while doing it is irrelevant because errors only shows that they are imperfect humans just like the first century Jewish Apostles!

MaxInDHouse:

Walahi talahi you're not a Bible student you only read the Bible!

Now let's go back to what Jesus said himself.

@ Matthew 16:16 Jesus said it's God's Holy Spirit that revealed something to Peter right?
Few minutes later that same day Jesus said what Peter said again was according to flesh in fact to show that the next thing that's coming from the same Peter is worse Jesus called Peter "Satan" {Matthew 16:23} So it's very possible for God's Holy Spirit to speak through a person and Satan to confuse the same person with human reasoning but did Jesus changed his mind regarding Peter being the ROCK upon which the congregation will be built? Matthew 16:18
NO!

Sand2022:

You have not mentioned any flipflop by the apostles, neither have you shown them accusing the holy spirit for any wrong understanding like you guys do.

MaxInDHouse:

The Apostles surely committed blunders!

Jesus taught them that it's not possible to eradicate poverty for now {Mark 14:7} yet that is exactly what they tried to do which led to the death of a Christian couple! Act 5:1-11
So you can't deny that they never committed blunders even though they were baptized with Holy Spirit!

Sand2022:

Well did Peter or Jesus say the holy spirit told Peter to rebuke Jesus? Was it the spirit's leading? Are you saying that Satan revealed some so called truth to Russell?

Sand2022:

It is revealing how you insult Jesus apostles because you want to protect human organization. Your interpretation of that was wrong. Even if it was true, it's not a spirit led flip flop. Try again.

MaxInDHouse:


The matter is simple:

No servant of God has perfect understanding of what the Holy Spirit is revealing except Jesus Christ, all servants of God even though they were inspired do commit blunders during the application of what God's Holy Spirit inspired them to pen down.

So there's a big difference between inspiration and application when it comes to inspiration God's Holy Spirit delivers the message perfectly to imperfect humans and they pen it down just as they were inspired. The Governing Body weren't inspired so it's only the application they're working on and just like all other imperfect servants of God in the past they also committed blunders but despite their blunders they're the one and only group that has achieved what Jesus promised that we will see as evidence that God is with mankind! John 13:34-35

MaxInDHouse:

You're the one mixing things up for yourself.

The Holy Spirit is not responsible for blunders that's the effect of imperfection in humans but how do you know that God's Holy Spirit is working with imperfect humans?
Despite their blunders they will achieve what God promised!

Sand2022:

Remember you're the one calling there mistake blunders. Not me. You should be careful though.

Sand2022:

However, you agree they didn't flip flop under the spirit leading. Agree?
It's not just application, if God doesn't tell you anything supernatural, and plainly, you are likely to reach wrong conclusions. However, when you have reach that wrong conclusions, it is not the holy spirit that led you to it. Your intellect led you there. Do we agree?

MaxInDHouse:

Ọmọ that's the undeniable truth!

God's people has never for once gotten things perfectly but despite their blunders they will continue doing God's will that no other group or organization can do!

So stop deceiving yourself blunders is evidence that we are IMPERFECT humans but ability to fulfil God's promise is evidence that God's Holy Spirit is WORKING with imperfect humans!

Sand2022:

how you know whom God is using clearly is by His telling you through vision, dreams or miracles as He pours His spirit.

Sand2022:

I repeat:
However, you agree they didn't flip flop under the spirit leading. Agree?
It's not just application, if God doesn't tell you anything supernatural, and plainly, you are likely to reach wrong conclusions. However, when you have reach that wrong conclusions, it is not the holy spirit that led you to it. Your intellect led you there. Do we agree?

MaxInDHouse:

Of course their imperfect human intellect led them to think they can eradicate poverty among themselves not God's Holy Spirit!

MaxInDHouse:

NO!
You're deceiving yourself big time!

How many apostles did Jesus chose?
Twelve!
How many were inspired to pen down words?
Only five: Matthew, John, Peter, James and Paul.
So when they committed blunder which led to the death of that Christian couple they were all together as the first century Governing Body.

So how do i know that God was using them?
It's because they were able to continue making disciples who were peacemakers like the Prince of Peace {Act 1:8} that's what inhabitants of Antioch noticed before they began calling them "CHRISTIANS" Act 11:26
In fact Jesus said all those gifts you're crying for doesn't make someone his real disciple! Matthew 7:21-23

Sand2022:

I can understand. That question makes you uncomfortable. It can slide. But show respect to God's word abeg. They didn't want to eradicate poverty for God's sake. I have wondered if youre actually a JW.

Sand2022:

I don't mean by individuals. A group approved by God has His evidence in miracles. It's not subject to your approval. The bible says:
Heb 2
4 while God joined in bearing witness with signs and wonders and various powerful works and with the holy spirit distributed according to his will."
Matt 7:21-23 is not contradicting Heb 2:4. Jesus is rather saying that even with that spirit one has to do his father's will to inherit life. He is not saying that miracles doesn't prove anything. It does.
I fact he had already made that statement before he promised them not to live Jerusalem for the spirit will come and then they will use it's power to preach as you rightly quoted at act 1:8.
We have gone through this path before

MaxInDHouse:

I have asked you to explain what they were trying to do by selling their properties and sharing the proceeds EQUALLY.
If Dangote, Otedola, Adenuga, Tinubu and many other billionaires in Nigeria today should sell properties worth billions of dollars and decides to share the money equally with those that sold properties worth thousands of Naira what are they trying to do?
Don't be dumb, answer that question first!

Who cares what you think about me?

Emusan:

When your organisation sold their Halls, did they share the proceed EQUALLY among JWs?
Yet you'll still donate to them

Sand2022:




Let me give you example of flip flop;

Russell believed that the Superior Authority was the Government (doctrine A). Christendom had arrived at that teaching long before then.

Later, during Rutherford's reign, he now said that the Superior Authorities were only Jehovah and Jesus. (Doctrine B)

Now your church teach that the Superior Authorities refer to the Governments (a return to Doctrine A)

If that is an evidence of holy spirit leading, sorry for you.

Sand2022:


Flip flop among the apostles? I mean moving from doctrine A to B and then returning to doctrine A? Where in the bible did you ever see such a thing among the apostles? Show me.

2. The few areas the apostles misunderstood Jesus words, they didn't say the holy spirit was gradually leading them to the truth. It was purely their imperfect human understanding. However, the JWs don't see it that way, they rather accuse the holy spirit for gradually taking them through one error to another. That's blasphemy.

And don't forget the point being made. What Russell believed about the holy spirit was not caused by Christendom, neither was Christendom the architect of Pyramid of Gizeh, Bathsarim, 1925, 1914, 1975 etc. Now you're saying Jesus led you to those errors. Don't accuse Christendom.

Sand2022:


Thirdly, your leader Russell claimed that he did an independent search for truth aside from the creed of his time. He said he brings out a topic, then goes through all the scriptures to check what it says, then when they arrive at a conclusion consistent with the bible, they adopt it. Bros isn't that what you guys claim happened? So why are you saying that you're being led away from false teachings of Christendom again? The 6 bible students that met to research this matters, did any church send a representative to that group? Were they not the ones that reached their conclusions themselves? Guy wake up. You shouldn't accept any excuse they tell you. Think up.

Prophets Samuel and Nathan heard directly from God.
Did God tell Nathan to inform king David to do "whatever his heart tells him to do" to build Jehovah's temple?

Did JEHOVAH tell Samuel that Eliab was JEHOVAH'S anointed?

Did Joseph Rutherford tell you he is perfect and infallible?

Pastorpreneurs who drink tea & converse with their deities also mishear too.

Janosky:

JWs believe in the guidance of holy spirit.
However, nobody,not even Paul (who wrote scriptures under inspiration of holy spirit )had perfect knowledge.
To err is human.
The important factor is 2 Corinthians 13:9,11.
Readjust, Amend, Improve.
Prophets Samuel and Nathan heard directly from God.
Did God tell Nathan to inform king David to do "whatever his heart tells him to do" to build Jehovah's temple?
Did JEHOVAH tell Samuel that Eliab was JEHOVAH'S anointed?
Did Joseph Rutherford tell you he is perfect and infallible?
Pastorpreneurs who drink tea & converse with their deities also mishear too.

MaxInDHouse:


Irrelevant question!

If you have an idea just go straight to the point!

Sand2022:


You don't get the point, do you? If the holy spirit reveals a truth to you, it is truth, it can't change or be extinguished by another truth from the same spirit. Common bro. Can you listen to yourself? Like seriously? Flip-flop from the holy spirit? Stop the blasphemy my dear. Your understanding is human, don't accuse the holy spirit.

I have also stated that when the apostles misunderstood a point either by Jesus or what the bible says, they don't go one blaming the holy spirit for that, it was not spirit leading them. It was there own human understanding that didn't get the point. However, whenever the spirit lead them to a truth eg concerning uncircumcised gentiles, that truth never change. It is constant. That's what we call spirit lead truth. Your leader Russell agrees with that.

Yours is not. It is pure human understanding.

Emusan:

He dare not give answer!
The apostles were selling their properties and shared EQUALLY among themselves.

Emusan:

But today JWs are selling properties and never shared EQUALLY rather people like you still donate to them

MaxInDHouse:
They did it against Jesus' teachings because he specifically told them that they will always have the poor among them.

Jesus never taught us to do that otherwise there wouldn't have been any poor ones among his disciples!

Emusan:

So Jesus teachings aren't applicable to JWs today

Emusan:

But today JWs are selling properties and never shared EQUALLY rather people like you still donate to them

MightySparrow:


They are not sincere. I have been reading their publications more than four decades. If you follow this thread, you will see that the Jehovah's Witnesses's of today are denying C.T. Russell. They said he was influenced by the church of his time. With the ' New Lights', the old lights and the bringers are discarded.
In the future, 1914 that seems to be the pillar of JWs will still be discarded by the then lazer light.
They don't have any Holy Spirit ; they are just playing kalokalo with scriptures.
They are living in delusion.

MaxInDHouse:
We are practically applying everything Jesus taught

You mixed it up!
I am a JW so whatever i donate is for the build up of God's organization spiritually speaking as more Bibles, literatures and Halls are put in place where they're NEEDED.

The apostles shared money to eradicate poverty among the first century Christians that is what Jesus never did neither did he teach them to do so!