Expanse2020:

So you don't know the meaning of revelation again

And to write

I know you don't know the meaning of reveal from Recite and from write

Who told who to recite what?

MightySparrow:


Who told who to recite what?

so recite no different from write 🤣🤣🤣🤣

SIRTee15:


where in the verses u quote did it say God wrote a book. show me a verse that clearly states God wrote a book.
commandments and prophecy doesnt mean God wrote a book. try harder.

regarding the 80 v 66 books. what do u know about the deuterocanonical book? why were they rejected by judiasm and not included in masoretic text.

One about Christianity when you debunk them with thier book they will come with hitted arguments..they will want u to bring something else according to your book Which say the word of God cannot be alter by man.. should clear it up for you without any argument ney Your arguments will start rumbling up

And even if you want start argument start with the verse diserpearing lately from your new testament

MightySparrow:



So Jubril gave him wrong revelation?
Dey play.

Revealation is different from write .go check the different bor

Expanse2020:

One about Christianity when you debunk them with thier book they will come with hitted arguments..they will want u to bring something else according to your book Which say the word of God cannot be alter by man.. should clear it up for you without any argument ney Your arguments will start rumbling up

And even if you want start argument start with the verse diserpearing lately from your new testament

I'm not here for whataboutism. You came here claiming God wrote a book- I demanded for evidence, u diverted to God's word.
For your info, there's a difference btw word of God and the bible. Not everything in the bible is the word of God. There's word of God's prophet and word of men in the bible too.
If U don't know something , ask and U will be enlightened.

Now that u know better, I repeat- where in the bible does it say God wrote a book.

Expanse2020:

Na you teach am
Na you put am for school
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What if I show you from your religious books that Mohammed can both read and write?

Will you acknowledge that you've been misled to believe the contrary?

TenQ:
Mr AntiChristian, Mr Lukuluku69
I have articulated the video for you here, what do you think?

The summary is this:
1. The Jews boast that they killed Isa the Son of Mary
2. Allah is saying that this is not true because
a. He was the one who caused it to be (if you like--through destiny) and as such, the Jews are only following the will of Allah (unknowingly)
b. Isa is with him Alive in Paradise.

The whole verse is to show that the Jews have no power to do other than what Allah has destined to be and that all their activities were preordained by Allah and not them.

This is consistent with:
Qur'an 3:55
Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ

and

Qur'an 19:33
There was peace on me the day I was born, and will be the day I die, and on the day I will be raised from the dead."


Of course, most of the scholars of Islam tries to misinterpret I shall cause thee to die, from Qur'an 3:55 as

1. O Jesus, I will take you to Myself
2. Lo! I am gathering thee
3. I will take thee
for the word mutawaffeeka (متوفيك) which means "cause to die"


This is the breakdown: that the Qur'an is NOT saying that Jesus did not die but the power of death and life is in the hands of Allah alone



Thanks!

Permit me to answer your question with another question from your Bible. When the biblical God said Adam will die when he eats the apple, was he meant to die immediately?

When exactly after then did Adam die after that incident?

Jesus will later die and be raised up for judgement just like all of us!

That death is different from being raised up body and soul! He hasn't died yet according to our texts!

MightySparrow:



Allah is the best deceiver. He deceived and still deceiving Muslims out of salvation provided through the crucifixion

Allah created many with wisdom and others foolish!
Just because your IQ is below par to understand the Islamic texts even with your false holy spirit doesn't mean Allah is a deceiver!

Your biblical God said Adam will die the day he eats the apple! Did Adam die that day?

When did Adam die?

You just have to reinterprete "die"!

SIRTee15:


Cc lukuluku69, antichristian, honesttalk, ohyoudidn't

If U believe God is your father, then you have left Islam. There's a reason the Koran call u slaves and not children.
Your Allah insist he has no children and forbid anyone calling him father or his children.

The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah and His most beloved!” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Why then does He punish you for your sins? No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. He forgives whoever He wills and punishes whoever He wills.

Here your Allah condemned the Jews and Christians for saying God is their father.
U guys are slaves to Allah, accept your position and be comfortable with it.

Now let me ask u a question to prove your Koran is not from God.

Did Isa in the Koran(not Jesus of the bible) ever called Allah his father.
When Isa was walking the surface of this earth preaching the injil to the Jews, b4 Allah took him, did he ever open his mouth to say 'Allah is my father'

Pls do not reference the bible. I want the answer from the Koran or hadith. Did Eesa ever say 'Allah is my father' when he living in this world.

We are all slaves of Allah!

Muslims are the ones who usually call themselves the slaves/servant of Allah. Christians seldom call themselves by such except calling themselves sons of God.

But it's amazing why these servitude exist in the Bible.

1. Paul allegedly said in Romans 6:16:
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

This means if we obey God then we are God's slaves!

2. Paul continues later in Romans 6:22:
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

Here we see that those who have been set free from sins become slaves of God!

3. Luke also said in Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.

Here we see Jesus relegated to being a servant of God by Luke.

(Many Bible translations including NKJV used "Servant Jesus" in the above verse but KJV, Catholic and Aramaic Bible translation used "son Jesus". Amplified Bible decided to used "Servant and son Jesus" showing amplification of course. Young's Literal translation used "His Child Jesus".)

Allah says in the Qur'an that Jesus called himself a slave of Allah.
"He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;"
Qur'an 19:30

So we see Jesus, righteous people are slaves/servants of Allah/God from the Bible and Qur'an!

Aren't Christians slaves of God too?

AntiChristian:


Allah created many with wisdom and others foolish!
Just because your IQ is below par to understand the Islamic texts even with your false holy spirit doesn't mean Allah is a deceiver!

Your biblical God said Adam will die the day he eats the apple! Did Adam die that day?

When did Adam die?

You just have to reinterprete "die"!

Jehovah created me not Allah.

TenQ:
I stumbled on this video by Dr David Wood: He is educating you Muslims on the proper interpretation of your Quran on Jesus death and resurrection (which your scholars mistranslated to suit their narrative).

Most Muslims are convinced that Quran 4:157 denies the crucifixion of Jesus. But have they been misinterpreting the Quran all along? Do other Quran verses suggest that Jesus did die? And can other Quran verses provide a different understanding of 4:157?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMe9tCCs2h8


I plead with you to watch the video and decide if his interpretation makes sense in resolving the Islamic problem of denying the historically supported death of Christ.


Question :
Do you STILL think that Quran 4:157 mean THAT was neither crucified nor killed
OR
That Jesus even though killed was taken up to Allah in heaven therefore the Jews are wrong about their boast that they succeeded in killing him.

This is not to argue anything with you o!

All my Friends on Nairaland:
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hakeemhakeem ItsReal correctguy101 Qasim6 youngdroly Bliss52 Qasim6 truthday
cc: MightySparrow SIRTee15 ANTIlSLAM innotutorial FxMasterz advocatejare

Nonsense as usual!

Check up there!

AntiChristian:
Permit me to answer your question with another question from your Bible. When the biblical God said Adam will die when he eats the apple, was he meant to die immediately?

When exactly after then did Adam die after that incident?

I believe this have been addressed many times here.

Jesus will later die and be raised up for judgement just like all of us!

He already raised up, so of what purpose for him to die and be raised up again?

Where can one find this in Quran?

That death is different from being raised up body and soul! He hasn't died yet according to our texts!

So you mean Jesus is still in heaven with his HUMAN BODY?

SIRTee15:


Cc lukuluku69, antichristian, honesttalk, ohyoudidn't

If U believe God is your father, then you have left Islam. There's a reason the Koran call u slaves and not children.
Your Allah insist he has no children and forbid anyone calling him father or his children.

The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah and His most beloved!” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Why then does He punish you for your sins? No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. He forgives whoever He wills and punishes whoever He wills.

Here your Allah condemned the Jews and Christians for saying God is their father.
U guys are slaves to Allah, accept your position and be comfortable with it.

Now let me ask u a question to prove your Koran is not from God.

Did Isa in the Koran(not Jesus of the bible) ever called Allah his father.
When Isa was walking the surface of this earth preaching the injil to the Jews, b4 Allah took him, did he ever open his mouth to say 'Allah is my father'

Pls do not reference the bible. I want the answer from the Koran or hadith. Did Eesa ever say 'Allah is my father' when he living in this world.

SirTee15 what does it meanI in context to be a slave of Allah?

To be a slave of Allah in Islam is to submit oneself entirely to the will of Allah, acknowledging His sovereignty and authority over all aspects of life. This concept is central to the Islamic faith and carries profound implications for the beliefs, actions, and mindset of a Muslim. It is not slavery in the horrific way most humanity has it.

It entails complete submission to the commands and guidance of Allah as outlined in the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This submission encompasses all facets of life, including personal conduct, worship, relationships, and decision-making. It involves aligning one’s will with that of Allah and striving to live in accordance with His divine guidance.

Surrendering Personal Desires and inclinations to prioritize the fulfillment of Allah’s commandments which involves exercising self-discipline, resisting temptations that contradict Islamic principles, and prioritizing obedience to Allah over worldly pursuits.

Servitude and Devotion to Allah alone while cultivating a deep sense of gratitude, reverence, and love for Allah, recognizing His mercy, compassion, and wisdom. This devotion is expressed through acts of worship such as prayer, fasting, charity, and pilgrimage.

Acceptance; though there may not be too much choice here, that everything that occurs is by the will and leave of Allah and trusting in His wisdom even in times of adversity or uncertainty. It fosters resilience, patience, and reliance on Allah’s guidance in navigating life’s challenges.

Being a slave of Allah necessitates upholding ethical conduct, justice, and compassion in dealings with others. It involves treating fellow human beings with kindness, fairness, and empathy while adhering to the principles of honesty, integrity, and social responsibility.

The phrase “child of God” is often used in religious and spiritual contexts to describe a person’s relationship with the divine. In Christianity, being a child of God is a metaphorical concept that signifies a close, intimate, and familial connection between an individual and God.

Is this not complying with the covenant and thus following the commands, worshipping and upholding righteous conduct as prescribed by God?

Islam doesn't support this as the position and reverence of Allah is so much. It cannot to be reduced to having or likening a relationship of father and child. Allah is far above all this.

Jesus (Isa a.s) never called Allah his father.

@SirTee15
Tenq had been blundering by my observations on the positions of baby; it appears you missed being mentioned

NairaLTQ:

If you Like, add the Cervical vertebrae (C-C5), the Thoracic (T1-T12) and the Lumbar vertebrae (L1-L5) and the Coccyx or tailbone together as the back bone, it changes nothing as the baby fotus doesn't stay between the rib bones and the backbone (T1-T12).
The fotus stays between the external stomach wall and the Lumbar vertebrae L1-L5

NairaLTQ:

What if I show you from your religious books that Mohammed can both read and write?

Will you acknowledge that you've been misled to believe the contrary?

Show us

Emusan:


I believe this have been addressed many times here.

You can readdress it here and now!

He already raised up, so of what purpose for him to die and be raised up again?

Every created soul would die including Jesus!
Everyone would face judgement after dying and being ressurected!

Where can one find this in Quran?

The Qur'an is not the only islamic text! The adhan is not in the Qur'an but established in the traditions of the Prophet! The Qur'an, the word of Allah is separate from the traditions of the Prophet!

All these are mixed in your Bible!

So you mean Jesus is still in heaven with his HUMAN BODY?

Yes, body and soul!
Would comeback towards the end of time to complete his destiny, die and buried as a Muslim!

AntiChristian:


Nonsense as usual!

Check up there!

Yes o, my brother.

AntiChristian:
You can readdress it here and now!

You search for it instead.

Every created soul would die including Jesus!
Everyone would face judgement after dying and being ressurected!

So which judgement will Jesus face after he is already WITH ALLAH?

The Qur'an is not the only islamic text! The adhan is not in the Qur'an but established in the traditions of the Prophet! The Qur'an, the word of Allah is separate from the traditions of the Prophet!

So there's another text that supersede Quran.

Why will Allah forget such a detail event?

All these are mixed in your Bible!

Not at all, Bible is very clear on Jesus life.

Jesus only coming to pronounce judgement on the evildoers.

Yes, body and soul!
Would comeback towards the end of time to complete his destiny, die and buried as a Muslim!

Which means Jesus is the oldest man ALIVE.

You mean Jesus will be pooing and urinating in heaven

Lastly, if Jesus is still human in heaven which makes Him the oldest and will still come back.

Will he appear as still the same OLDEST MAN or be born again?

Quick Note: Many Biblical events about end time are already in place. So when will your Isa come and when he come how does Quran say people will know he has come?

honesttalk21:


SirTee15 what does it meanI in context to be a slave of Allah?

To be a slave of Allah in Islam is to submit oneself entirely to the will of Allah, acknowledging His sovereignty and authority over all aspects of life. This concept is central to the Islamic faith and carries profound implications for the beliefs, actions, and mindset of a Muslim. It is not slavery in the horrific way most humanity has it.

It entails complete submission to the commands and guidance of Allah as outlined in the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This submission encompasses all facets of life, including personal conduct, worship, relationships, and decision-making. It involves aligning one’s will with that of Allah and striving to live in accordance with His divine guidance.

Surrendering Personal Desires and inclinations to prioritize the fulfillment of Allah’s commandments which involves exercising self-discipline, resisting temptations that contradict Islamic principles, and prioritizing obedience to Allah over worldly pursuits.

Servitude and Devotion to Allah alone while cultivating a deep sense of gratitude, reverence, and love for Allah, recognizing His mercy, compassion, and wisdom. This devotion is expressed through acts of worship such as prayer, fasting, charity, and pilgrimage.

Acceptance; though there may not be too much choice here, that everything that occurs is by the will and leave of Allah and trusting in His wisdom even in times of adversity or uncertainty. It fosters resilience, patience, and reliance on Allah’s guidance in navigating life’s challenges.

Being a slave of Allah necessitates upholding ethical conduct, justice, and compassion in dealings with others. It involves treating fellow human beings with kindness, fairness, and empathy while adhering to the principles of honesty, integrity, and social responsibility.

The phrase “child of God” is often used in religious and spiritual contexts to describe a person’s relationship with the divine. In Christianity, being a child of God is a metaphorical concept that signifies a close, intimate, and familial connection between an individual and God.

Is this not complying with the covenant and thus following the commands, worshipping and upholding righteous conduct as prescribed by God?

Islam doesn't support this as the position and reverence of Allah is so much. It cannot to be reduced to having or likening a relationship of father and child. Allah is far above all this.

Jesus (Isa a.s) never called Allah his father.

@SirTee15
Tenq had been blundering by my observations on the positions of baby; it appears you missed being mentioned

I will respond to your other assertions later including the gravid uterus issue. Buy for now let's focus on the most important response did Jesus called God his father.

You claim ISA didn't call God his father, but Jesus (who is supposed to be Isa) called God his father 165 times in the gospels.
So are U saying all those verses that wrote Jesus calling God his father are corrupt.
So gospel writers started lying that Jesus called his God father according to you Muslims. Is that what u saying.
Are U saying the Lords prayer is corrupt and Jesus never said it. because the lord's prayer start with 'Our father'
What will be the motivation for these gospel writers to start lying about jesus calling God his father. What is their aim.

Do U know people calling God their father precede Jesus.
According to Isaiah, God said he's a father to Israel and told Israelites to call him their father. Is that another corruption.

So are U claiming all verses in the bible that says God is a father are all corrupt. Is that what u saying ?

Emusan:


You search for it instead.

Holy spirit don leave you and you've embraced laziness! You can't even replicate what you said was answered!

So which judgement will Jesus face after he is already WITH ALLAH?

I wont encourage you to be stupid as to retype what i had type earlier!

So there's another text that supersede Quran.

Why will Allah forget such a detail event?

Show me where i said any book supercedes the Qur'an?

You guys are all bunches of holy spirit lacking low IQ illiterates that couldn't comprehend simple sentences written logically!

Not at all, Bible is very clear on Jesus life.

1. What evidence do you have?

2. Did God write any part of the Bible? Is the Bible God's word?

3. Did Jesus write any sentence or even dictate as a much as a word to any of the disciples to write?

4. Who can authenticate the Bible when all 11 appointed "good" disciples of Jesus altogether to wrote less than Paul an enemy of Jesus when he was alive and a self appointed disciple who claim he say a light that's Jesus!

5. Even Luke and Mark had to write their own accounts in your gospel!

6. How are we sure Matthew wrote the gospel acclaimed to be written by him when he actually kept mentioning his own name particularly in Mathew 9:9

And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him,Follow me. And he arose, and followed him. As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man called Matthew sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, "Follow me." And he rose and followed him.

Jesus only coming to pronounce judgement on the evildoers.

Jesus already said by his own self he can do nothing!

Which means Jesus is the oldest man ALIVE.

You mean Jesus will be pooing and urinating in heaven

Lastly, if Jesus is still human in heaven which makes Him the oldest and will still come back.

Will he appear as still the same OLDEST MAN or be born again?

Quick Note: Many Biblical events about end time are already in place. So when will your Isa come and when he come how does Quran say people will know he has come?

Age is only relevant in this world!
How old was Enoch when he left?

How old is he now?

And Allah knows best about Jesus's state in heaven!
No one knows when he will come and his coming as I said earlier is part of the signs of end time!

He will come as a youth he was, rule with Islam and kill the dajjal aka antichrist.

The he'll later die and be buried as a Muslim!

SIRTee15:


I will respond to your other assertions later including the gravid uterus issue. Buy for now let's focus on the most important response did Jesus called God his father.

You claim ISA didn't call God his father, but Jesus (who is supposed to be Isa) called God his father 165 times in the gospels.
So are U saying all those verses that wrote Jesus calling God his father are corrupt.
So gospel writers started lying that Jesus called his God father according to you Muslims. Is that what u saying.
Are U saying the Lords prayer is corrupt and Jesus never said it. because the lord's prayer start with 'Our father'
What will be the motivation for these gospel writers to start lying about jesus calling God his father. What is their aim.

Do U know people calling God their father precede Jesus.
According to Isaiah, God said he's a father to Israel and told Israelites to call him their father. Is that another corruption.

So are U claiming all verses in the bible that says God is a father are all corrupt. Is that what u saying ?

The Quran has nothing like Jesus (Isa a.s) calling Allah father. I didn't say anything about the Bible verses where Jesus is said to have called God father.

You ask whether I know people called God father before Jesus? Well if they did according to the Bible in what context is this?

Let's consider Isaiah 63:15-17

15 Look down from heaven and see, from your lofty throne, holy and glorious.Where are your zeal and your might? Your tenderness and compassion are withheld from us.

16 But you are our Father,though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us;
you, Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

17 Why, Lord, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes that are your inheritance

You see Father and Lord which appear to address one person. With respect to father God is seen as a father in terms of his role as the creator and protector of the nation of Israel rather than in a literal sense.

In the cultural context of the time, the family unit was highly valued. Fathers held the role of protecting, providing for, teaching, and disciplining their children. By using "Father," Jesus tapped into the societal understanding of this relationship.

Then you see in verse seventeen a request for the lord (which is God isn't it?) to return for the sake of his servants.

Does this answer the servant/slave of Allah question you asked?

AntiChristian:
[s]Holy spirit don leave you and you've embraced laziness! You can't even replicate what you said was answered![/s]

Thrash!

I wont encourage you to be stupid as to retype what i had type earlier!

I didn't retype, I simply asked you question.

What is the purpose of judgement when Jesus was already in heaven?

Show me where i said any book supercedes the Qur'an?

Where did you read it that I said you said any book supersede Quran?

Quran should be the actual book where Jesus life, death and coming back should be.

So answer my question.

You guys are all bunches of holy spirit lacking low IQ illiterates that couldn't comprehend simple sentences written logically!

Throwing insult is your defence right?

1. What evidence do you have?

That?

2. Did God write any part of the Bible? Is the Bible God's word?

3. Did Jesus write any sentence or even dictate as a much as a word to any of the disciples to write?

4. Who can authenticate the Bible when all 11 appointed "good" disciples of Jesus altogether to wrote less than Paul an enemy of Jesus when he was alive and a self appointed disciple who claim he say a light that's Jesus!

5. Even Luke and Mark had to write their own accounts in your gospel!

6. How are we sure Matthew wrote the gospel acclaimed to be written by him when he actually kept mentioning his own name particularly in Mathew 9:9

I don't see what leads to these questions because it never addressed my point.

You said "All these are mixed in your Bible"

And I said not at all, Bible is very clear on Jesus life.

Jesus already said by his own self he can do nothing!

That's not the point, the point is Jesus coming back to this earth is to pronounce judgement on the evildoers.

Age is only relevant in this world!
How old was Enoch when he left?

How old is he now?

Waooooo but you said he is in heaven with his HUMAN BODY.

If age only relevant here, it means it's not the same human body or maybe a glorified body which doesn't operate like ours anymore.

Do you agree?

And Allah knows best about Jesus's state in heaven!

Yet Allah couldn't detail this BEST in Quran.

No one knows when he will come and his coming as I said earlier is part of the signs of end time!

If no one knows then how will people know he has come?

He will come as a youth he was, rule with Islam and kill the dajjal aka antichrist.

Then he can't be with the same human body as you claimed earlier.

because a human living for over thousand years should be strickenly old even though no record of any human ever live up to even just 1000 years not to talk of over 2000 and still counting.

The he'll later die and be buried as a Muslim!

Funny enough you used the word ANTICHRIST

Do you know the meaning?

honesttalk21:


The Quran has nothing like Jesus (Isa a.s) calling Allah father. I didn't say anything about the Bible verses where Jesus is said to have called God father.

You ask whether I know people called God father before Jesus? Well if they did according to the Bible in what context is this?

Let's consider Isaiah 63:15-17

15 Look down from heaven and see, from your lofty throne, holy and glorious.Where are your zeal and your might? Your tenderness and compassion are withheld from us.

16 But you are our Father,though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us;
you, Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

17 Why, Lord, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes that are your inheritance

You see Father and Lord which appear to address one person. With respect to father God is seen as a father in terms of his role as the creator and protector of the nation of Israel rather than in a literal sense.

In the cultural context of the time, the family unit was highly valued. Fathers held the role of protecting, providing for, teaching, and disciplining their children. By using "Father," Jesus tapped into the societal understanding of this relationship.

Then you see in verse seventeen a request for the lord (which is God isn't it?) to return for the sake of his servants.

Does this answer the servant/slave of Allah question you asked?

The issue is not whether the word father is used literally or metaphorical. That's irrelevant to the topic.
The question is did Israelites/Jews or Jesus ever called God their father.
Did they ever refer to God using the word Father. That's my question. I'm not debate the context which it's used with u.
For example Jesus taught us how to pray by starting with
'Our Father' ....Did Jesus ever mentioned that word.

Did Isa who is supposed to be Jesus ever told his disciples to call God their Father.
That's my question.

Attempt at equating slave to servant shows u embarrassed by the Koran. There's Arabic word for servant and it's different from the Arabic word for slave.
Why is the former not used but the later in your Koran is the question U should ponder about?

SIRTee15:


The issue is not whether the word father is used literally or metaphorical. That's irrelevant to the topic.
The question is did Israelites/Jews or Jesus ever called God their father.
Did they ever refer to God using the word Father. That's my question. I'm not debate the context which it's used with u.
For example Jesus taught us how to pray by starting with
'Our Father' ....Did Jesus ever mentioned that word.

Did Isa who is supposed to be Jesus ever told his disciples to call God their Father.
That's my question.

Attempt at equating slave to servant shows u embarrassed by the Koran. There's Arabic word for servant and it's different from the Arabic word for slave.
Why is the former not used but the later in your Koran is the question U should ponder about?

Now you are editing or is it rephraising your question. Did you not write?

SIRTee15:


Cc lukuluku69, antichristian, honesttalk, ohyoudidn't

If U believe God is your father, then you have left Islam. There's a reason the Koran call u slaves and not children.
Your Allah insist he has no children and forbid anyone calling him father or his children.

The Jews and the Christians each say, “We are the children of Allah and His most beloved!” Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Why then does He punish you for your sins? No! You are only humans like others of His Own making. He forgives whoever He wills and punishes whoever He wills.

Here your Allah condemned the Jews and Christians for saying God is their father.
U guys are slaves to Allah, accept your position and be comfortable with it.

Now let me ask u a question to prove your Koran is not from God.

Did Isa in the Koran(not Jesus of the bible) ever called Allah his father.
When Isa was walking the surface of this earth preaching the injil to the Jews, b4 Allah took him, did he ever open his mouth to say 'Allah is my father'

Pls do not reference the bible. I want the answer from the Koran or hadith. Did Eesa ever say 'Allah is my father' when he living in this world.

I requote the original you made with your questions in bold. Since Isa a.s never called Allah his father why will he ask his disciples to addreas Allah as father? He never said such in the Quran.

Attempt at equating servant to slave you say is what? The Arabic term abd is used to denote both “slave” and “servant,” emphasizing the idea of being a devoted servant to God.

Probably for a focused and less ambiguous discussion show where you get from the Koran

SIRTee15:

There's a reason the Koran call u slaves and not children.

honesttalk21:


Now you are editing or is it rephraising your question. Did you not write?



I requote the original you made with your questions in bold. Since Isa a.s never called Allah his father why will he ask his disciples to addreas Allah as father? He never said such in the Quran.

It doesn't matter if Jesus' reference to God as father is to himself or others. All I want to know is did Jesus ever referred to God as father and U have answered me.
Now, are U saying those verses where jesus referenced God as father are corrupt. Is that what U saying?.

Are U saying this beautiful and morally upright verses are corrupt
“This, then, is how you should pray: “’Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name mat 6.9

Matthew 6:25–34
26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?

32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

So are U saying these edifying verses didn't come out of the mouth of Jesus because he called God his Father.

Then we can also assume Isaiah and other old testament prophets didn't make reference to God as father.

So are u then insinuating that these verse are also corrupt? Pls this is not about context but about if the referred to God as father.

Ish 63.16 For you are[b] our Father [/b]
though Abraham does not know us,
and Israel does not acknowledge us;
you, O LORD, are our Father,
our Redeemer from of old is your name.

Ish 64.8 But now, O LORD, you are our Father;
we are the clay, and you are our potter;
we are all the work of your hand.

Jer3.19 “‘I said,
How I would set you among my sons,
and give you a pleasant land,
a heritage most beautiful of all nations.
And I thought you would call me, My Father,
and would not turn from following me.

Mal 2.10 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?


So if Isaiah, Jeremiah and Malachi all called God father, are U then saying they are false prophets or those verses are corrupt. Which one?

honesttalk21:


Attempt at equating servant to slave you say is what? The Arabic term abd is used to denote both “slave” and “servant,” emphasizing the idea of being a devoted servant to God.

Probably for a focused and less ambiguous discussion show where you get from the Koran

That's not true, the Arabic word for servant is khadim. Khadim is never used for slave but abd means slave.

Allah made it clear he has no son and nobody should say he has a son. He also made it clear he's not a father to anybody. Allah doesn't enter his creation and wants no personal relationship with mankind.

Furthermore, After Muhammed's calling, Allah made it clear he doesn't want to talk to anybody again. Just do as I say and dont ask questions or communicate with me.

That definitely a definition of a slave-master relationship.

SIRTee15:


It doesn't matter if Jesus' reference to God as father is to himself or others. All I want to know is did Jesus ever referred to God as father and U have answered me.
Now, are U saying those verses where jesus referenced God as father are corrupt. Is that what U saying?.

Again you rephrase you stand/question. Good you acknowledge you have been answered.

I am not talking about whether the verses in your Bible are corrupt or corrupted as it isn't part of your original question.

SIRTee15:


That's not true, the Arabic word for servant is khadim. Khadim is never used for slave but abd means slave.

Allah made it clear he has no son and nobody should say he has a son. He also made it clear he's not a father to anybody. Allah doesn't enter his creation and wants no personal relationship with mankind.

Furthermore, After Muhammed's calling, Allah made it clear he doesn't want to talk to anybody again. Just do as I say and dont ask questions or communicate with me.

That definitely a definition of a slave-master relationship.

Al-Kahf 18:1

ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ ٱلَّذِىٓ أَنزَلَ عَلَىٰعَبْدِهِ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ وَلَمْ يَجْعَل لَّهُۥ عِوَجَاۜ

[All] praise is [due] to Allāh, who has sent down upon His Servant [Muḥammad pbuh ] the Book and has not made therein any deviance.

The Arabic word “عبد” (pronounced as “abd”) is a common term in the Arabic language and holds significant religious and cultural importance. The word “عبد” is derived from the root “عبد” which conveys the meaning of servitude, worship, and submission. In Islamic theology, the term “عبد” is frequently used to refer to a servant or worshipper of Allah, emphasizing the concept of devotion and obedience to the divine.

When translated into English, the word “عبد” is commonly rendered as “servant” or “slave.” However, it is important to note that the connotations of these translations differ significantly from their usage in Arabic. In Islamic context, the term “servant” reflects a spiritual connection with Allah rather than a position of inferiority or subjugation

honesttalk21:


Again you rephrase you stand/question. Good you acknowledge you have been answered.

I am not talking about whether the verses in your Bible are corrupt or corrupted as it isn't part of your original question.

U see, the fact that U can't take a stand regarding if those verses are corrupt or not shows u struggling with the TRUTH.
If Isa never referenced God as father, then it should be clear whoever wrote that he said so in the gospel is lying.
That should be easy. Isn't it? What's difficult.

If Allah condemned Jews for calling him father, then whoever wrote that the prophets in the old testament referenced God as father should be lying. It's just common sense.

But honesttalk here is not ready to stick out his neck for the Koran because he knows the TRUTH.
Those verses in the bible are not corruption. Jesus did call God father and the prophets in the old testament were correct to referenced God as father.

All historical records about Abrahamic faith prior to islam confirmed God is called father. All of them- including non biblical text.
These include Targum, Talmud, Peshitta, dead sea scrolls, Didache, early church fathers writings. These books all called God father.
The only book that says God should not be called father is the Koran. A book that came after people had been calling God father for over 2 thousand years and no prophet corrected them. No record of any prophet correcting them.

Honesttalk the reason U were not willing to beat your chest that the bible verses are corrupt is because U will struggle to defend that position.

Honesttalk what I want u to see and understand is that Koran can't stand historical test or scrutiny. It always fails whenever this happened.
The Koran as a book struggles to make sense when applied within historical context.
What we have instead from Muslim apologetics are lies upon lies, waffling, rewording the verses in the Koran, ambiguous re explanation of the Koranic verses.
Good thing is u didn't take that route. U seem like an intelligent guy and not someone obsessed with blind faith.
I'm not here to tell U to become Christian, I'm not even telling u to leave Islam. But what I want u to do as an intelligent person is take a look at the Koran in your hand and ask yourself this sincere question
Is this book really from God? Did Muhammad actually heard from any angel?
because from our conversation here, some things are clear.
ISA in the Koran IS NOT Jesus in the bible. They are 2 different characters. Jesus in the bible called God his father, ISA in the Koran didn't call God his father; Jesus in the bible told his disciples to call God father but ISA never told his disciples to call God father. It's obvious they can not be the same person. One is true and the other is a fabrication. I will leave u to guess who is who.

It's also obvious from the conversation here that Muhammed never heard from God. It's all a lie.
Jews during the time of Elijah called God father, they did so during the time of David, Elijah, Elisha, Ezra, Isaiah, Jeremiah. Yet none of this prophets of God told them not to call God father, there's no record of them telling Israelites not to call God their father.
Only Muhammed has that information. Something isn't right. It's either the prophets in OT never heard from God or Muhammed never heard from God. I will leave u to guess who never heard from God.

So sorry for the late response. There was a particular response to a post that kept getting me banned (today make the seventh time)

honesttalk21:


Is it a fact that the Jews indeed killed many prophets?

Is it a fact that Elijah was in danger as Ahab and Jezebel killed many prophets?

Is it a lie that Elijah was saved from the killing by getting taken up to the heavens by a chariot?

Now if Elijah was saved from a humilating death why not Jesus?

Quran 3:55 states that Allah raised Jesus to Himself. It does not mention anything about Allah killing Jesus.

The Arabic word “mutawaffeeka” (مُتَوَفِّيكَ) is pf the root word, “tawaffa” (توفّى), which has multiple meanings in Arabic, including “to cause to die,” “to take in full,” or “to complete.” In the context of this verse , use of “mutawaffeeka” does not necessarily imply death but rather refers to a different form of taking or completing. It is Allah taking Jesus in a special manner without experiencing death. Similar to Elijah and Enoch

Also, the phrase “wa rafi’uka ilayya” (وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَىَّ) is also significant. It is translated as “and raise you to Myself.” This raising is understood to mean an elevation in status and honor rather than physical ascension. This interpretation aligns with the belief that Jesus was not crucified but was instead raised to the heavens without experiencing death.

Attn. MightySparrow

The word mutawaffeeka (متوفيك) means "cause to die" in the context of Jesus

and it is supported by
Qur'an 3:55
Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily,
I shall cause thee to die,
and
shall exalt thee unto Me,
and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ



Please look at the sequence Jesus has to die before being lifted up.

Secondly,

Qur'an 19:33
Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!


Can you note the same sequence : death before being raised.

Unfortunately, Islamic Taqqiya will not allow you to see that Qur'an 19:33 conflict with your Islamic eschatology wit respect to Jesus.

Finally, you were the one who defined mutawaffeeka as


The Arabic word “mutawaffeeka” (مُتَوَفِّيكَ) is pf the root word, “tawaffa” (توفّى), which has multiple meanings in Arabic, including “to cause to die,” “to take in full,” or “to complete.”


It is easy to see how the proper translation of mutawaffeeka solves the conflict that would have existed with Qur'an 19:33 and Qur'an 3:55


How do you think Jesus forgot to say
"Peace on me the
1. day I was born, and
2. the day I will be taken to heaven die, and
3. the day I will descend from heaven and
4. the day I shall die and
5. the day I shall be raised alive!

See how Islamic Taqqiya complicated that which is extremely simple!

Expanse2020:

Show us

Sahih Muslim 1637 c
Ibn Abbas reported:
When Allah's Messenger was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah's Apostle said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah's Messenger is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah's Messenger may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah's Messenger, he said: Get up (and go away) 'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah's Messenger could not write (or dictate) the document for them.


This is a Sahih Hadith or is it Fabricated as usual of you Muslims?

In this hadith, Can Mohammed not read and write?


Do you need more evidence?

SIRTee15:


U see, the fact that U can't take a stand regarding if those verses are corrupt or not shows u struggling with the TRUTH.
If Isa never referenced God as father, then it should be clear whoever wrote that he said so in the gospel is lying.
That should be easy. Isn't it? What's difficult.

If Allah condemned Jews for calling him father, then whoever wrote that the prophets in the old testament referenced God as father should be lying. It's just common sense.

But honesttalk here is not ready to stick out his neck for the Koran because he knows the TRUTH.
Those verses in the bible are not corruption. Jesus did call God father and the prophets in the old testament were correct to referenced God as father.

All historical records about Abrahamic faith prior to islam confirmed God is called father. All of them- including non biblical text.
These include Targum, Talmud, Peshitta, dead sea scrolls, Didache, early church fathers writings. These books all called God father.
The only book that says God should not be called father is the Koran. A book that came after people had been calling God father for over 2 thousand years and no prophet corrected them. No record of any prophet correcting them.

Honesttalk the reason U were not willing to beat your chest that the bible verses are corrupt is because U will struggle to defend that position.

Honesttalk what I want u to see and understand is that Koran can't stand historical test or scrutiny. It always fails whenever this happened.
The Koran as a book struggles to make sense when applied within historical context.
What we have instead from Muslim apologetics are lies upon lies, waffling, rewording the verses in the Koran, ambiguous re explanation of the Koranic verses.
Good thing is u didn't take that route. U seem like an intelligent guy and not someone obsessed with blind faith.
I'm not here to tell U to become Christian, I'm not even telling u to leave Islam. But what I want u to do as an intelligent person is take a look at the Koran in your hand and ask yourself this sincere question
Is this book really from God? Did Muhammad actually heard from any angel?
because from our conversation here, some things are clear.
ISA in the Koran IS NOT Jesus in the bible. They are 2 different characters. Jesus in the bible called God his father, ISA in the Koran didn't call God his father; Jesus in the bible told his disciples to call God father but ISA never told his disciples to call God father. It's obvious they can not be the same person. One is true and the other is a fabrication. I will leave u to guess who is who.

It's also obvious from the conversation here that Muhammed never heard from God. It's all a lie.
Jews during the time of Elijah called God father, they did so during the time of David, Elijah, Elisha, Ezra, Isaiah, Jeremiah. Yet none of this prophets of God told them not to call God father, there's no record of them telling Israelites not to call God their father.
Only Muhammed has that information. Something isn't right. It's either the prophets in OT never heard from God or Muhammed never heard from God. I will leave u to guess who never heard from God.

SirTee15 as I say, your question was if Jesus in the Quran refers to Allah as father then if he instructed his followers to call Allah father or do you deny this?

I don't like complicating responses. You have accepted that the above questions on father have been answered. You are now asking if certain verses are corrupted? Is this correct?
Your repeating tends to suggest so.

The verses may or may not be corrupted however you regarded my submission on metaphorical meaning. Are these verses including father also metaphorical?

Then you go ahead to say Allah cursed the Jews for calling him father? You obviously are just stating for the sake of it or what does Quran 5:18 you quoted say regarding a curse?

Let's be factual in our addresses.