Anaybira:
= SOMETHING
#What do you mean by proceed?

Are those force, energy not something or entities? or are they NOTHING?

LordReed:


Create is loaded language which you are using here because of your beliefs. Use a more objective phrase or word and you'll see your dichotomy is meaningless.

Check the meaning of create, and tell me how I used it subjectively.

LordReed:

Function, propagate, continue to exist.

lolz...ALL THESE COME (OCCUR) AFTER BEING MADE TO EXIST

Anaybira:


Check the meaning of create, and tell me how I used it subjectively.

The word already implies a deliberate act.

Create
verb
1.
bring (something) into existence.
"he created a thirty-acre lake"

Anaybira:


lolz...ALL THESE COME (OCCUR) AFTER BEING MADE TO EXIST

Yes, that's what I said.

Anaybira:

Did you see this before believing it?

It something we experience every second of our existence.

Anaybira:

Explain objectively with example how something can come into existence without the process of creation.

What is the process of creation? Explain what that means and I will give you an answer.

LordReed:


What is the process of creation? Explain what that means and I will give you an answer.

You just admitted that something must exist before it proceeds,functions...
To answer your question, rationally, by necessity and our natural inclination we know that when something exist, it was made by something to exist i.e created.
An iphone for example, exists and it doesn't make sense to say such an intelligence design wasn't created even though we may neither know how it was created nor the one who created it.
It is by necessity.

LordReed:


It something we experience every second of our existence.

Even though I don't buy your forces, energy theory, but for the sake of argument, how many times have you experienced something existing without being made by something to exist i.e created? Because for every millisecond we humans see things being created [by something].

LordReed:


What is the process of creation? Explain what that means and I will give you an answer.

But if you mean process of creation as pertained to the universe and the natural world, I don't know how they were made to exist because that is a matter of unseen but Allah [God] acknowlege us through HIS prophets about how some of what exist came about, the period of creation etc.

Anaybira:

Even though I don't buy your forces, energy theory, but for the sake of argument, how many times have you experienced something existing without being made by something to exist i.e created? Because for every millisecond we humans see things being created [by something].

You don't have to buy it, it is fact. The reason why you can sit or stand all boils down to the fundamental forces. The reason anything in this universe exists is due to the interaction of those forces with energy. For example it is because of the weak and strong nuclear forces that your very cells can form in the first place. Gravitational force is why the sun and our planet exists. So whether you buy it or not is irrelevant, these are facts of our existence.

In our experience there are 2 types of things that exist. We call them artificial and natural. We tend to call all the things that exist without human intervention natural, while those that require human effort artificial. A landscape is natural, a picture of a landscape is not. You might see the exact same details in both but one requires human effort the other does not. You cannot give the same attributes to both because their existence came about by completely different means. To do so is false equivalence, they are not the same type of thing.

Anaybira:

You just admitted that something must exist before it proceeds,functions...
To answer your question, rationally, by necessity and our natural inclination we know that when something exist, it was made by something to exist i.e created.
An iphone for example, exists and it doesn't make sense to say such an intelligence design wasn't created even though we may neither know how it was created nor the one who created it.
It is by necessity.

LoLz. I never argued otherwise. What I said is your dichotomy is irrelevant and holds no water.

That is not what necessity entails. You are smuggling in 'created' to front load your belief in a creator. By necessity all that exist are composed of something that has already existed. You don't need to smuggle in 'created' to see that.

Anaybira:

But if you mean process of creation as pertained to the universe and the natural world, I don't know how they were made to exist because that is a matter of unseen but Allah [God] acknowlege us through HIS prophets about how some of what exist came about, the period of creation etc.

How can we confirm that Allah purportedly said anything in the first place?

LordReed:

...something that has already existed. You don't need to smuggle in 'created' to see that.

Even though it is not always true but, but and but how did that thing that has already existed brought to existence? That's the simple question that has been making you to be beating around the wilderness.

Anaybira:

Even though it is not always true but, but and but how did that thing that has already existed brought to existence? That's the simple question that has been making you to be beating around the wilderness.

LoLz. If there is any beating round the bush it is you who is doing that. What you fail to see is the implication of what I am saying because you want your Allah to be the source of all things.

Anaybira:

...but how did that thing that has already existed brought to existence?

Oya answer this...

LordReed:


How can we confirm that Allah purportedly said anything in the first place?

I don't think the answer is relevant to someone who is still fighting against his natural inclination as to what he deemed to exist were SURELY brought to existence by something.

Anaybira:

I don't think the answer is relevant to someone who is still fighting against his natural inclination as to what he deemed to exist were SURELY brought to existence by something.

LoLz! Said by someone who believes an Arabian fairytale. Bwahahahahahaha!

Anaybira:


Do you believe all that you deemed to be in existence including the universe and the natural world has a creator?

No, I don't.

NeoWanZaeed:


Mention 1 religion in the world that's not worshiping human beings taken for their creator because of that human being supernatural powers

Ifa religion.

Majority of religions if not all don't worship human beings as creators.

LordReed:


Hey there! Yes it has. Hope you've been well.

Yes I'm brother. Hope same too?

IMAliyu:


Aye, welcome back.
It's been a while.

Nice to see you're still kicking.

Thank you brother. Trust you're doing great.

LordReed:


LoLz! Said by someone who believes an Arabian fairytale. Bwahahahahahaha!

...ok answer the question.

tintingz:
No, I don't.

you bro LordReed has helped you a lot, we had nice discussion, dodging his natural inclination. So do you agree with him all along? If so, then you can also help him out. I think he his stuck.

LordReed:

...By necessity all that exist are composed of something that has already existed. You don't need to smuggle in 'created' to see that.

We ask him how *something* that already existed was brought into existence without being created by something?

tintingz:
Ifa religion.

Majority of religions if not all don't worship human beings as creators.

You have no idea about what you are talking about

Anaybira:

Explain objectively with example how something can come into existence without the process of creation.

Why not explain to us practically how something can be created out of nothing if you believe a creator created the universe from nothing?

tintingz:


Why not explain to us practically how something can be created out of nothing if you believe a creator created the universe from nothing?

What do you mean by practically?
As for the origination of existence, that is a matter of unseen, same thing as the angel, jin etc but through HIS prophets some knowledge of creation were made known to us. No doubt, human knowledge is limited due to HIS saying:
...And they wil never compass anything of HIS Knowledge except that which HE wills...Qur 2:255.
He the Creator put in us intellect and natural inclination to know somethings by necessity, this cannot be cheated, believing there is an originator is part of it even though we might not see or know how.
Similitude is the iphone example I made above, no human can be in his right mind and think that there was nothing behind such an intelligence design [even though, that was only a manipulation of what is already in existence].

cont...
We don't have to know the maker or the process to believe that by certainty.
ALLAH said: Has there not been over a period of time, when he was not a thing worth mentioning?
Verily, We have created man from Nutfah (drops) of mixed semen (sexual discharge of man and woman), in order to try him: so We made him hearer and seer.
Verily, We showed him the way, wether he be grateful or ungrateful. Qur 76:1-3.

Anaybira:
https://abdurrahman.org/2019/04/06/the-noble-quran-hilali-muhsin-khan/

A copy of the noble Quran I'm using.

Anaybira:

We ask him how *something* that already existed was brought into existence without being created by something?

Because something has always existed, it only changes form. Read up on the laws of conservation of mass and energy.