Anaybira:

you bro LordReed has helped you a lot, we had nice discussion, dodging his natural inclination. So do you agree with him all along? If so, then you can also help him out. I think he his stuck.

LoLz. You the believer in fairytale is the one stuck, in the past.

Anaybira:

...ok answer the question.

Which question haven't I answered? Meanwhile I asked you a question and you started getting pissy. LoLz.

tintingz:
Yes I'm brother. Hope same too?

Glad to hear. I'm alright contrary to all those hoping their god will strike me down. LoLz.

Anaybira:

We ask him how *something* that already existed was brought into existence without being created by something?

Not getting this question, kindly give example.

Anaybira:

What do you mean by practically?
As for the origination of existence, that is a matter of unseen, same thing as the angel, jin etc but through HIS prophets some knowledge of creation were made known to us. No doubt, human knowledge is limited due to HIS saying:
...And they wil never compass anything of HIS Knowledge except that which HE wills...Qur 2:255.
He the Creator put in us intellect and natural inclination to know somethings by necessity, this cannot be cheated, believing there is an originator is part of it even though we might not see or know how.
Similitude is the iphone example I made above, no human can be in his right mind and think that there was nothing behind such an intelligence design [even though, that was only a manipulation of what is already in existence].

1. So you believe it's a matter of unseen(mystery) hence your god can create something from nothing but when someone said the universe came from nothing you find it absurd?

2. If something must have a creator or originator, who's the creator of your god?

Anaybira:
cont...
We don't have to know the maker or the process to believe that by certainty.
ALLAH said: Has there not been over a period of time, when he was not a thing worth mentioning?
Verily, We have created man from Nutfah (drops) of mixed semen (sexual discharge of man and woman), in order to try him: so We made him hearer and seer.
Verily, We showed him the way, wether he be grateful or ungrateful. Qur 76:1-3.

This is word of mouth and more also ridiculous.

LordReed:


Glad to hear. I'm alright contrary to all those hoping their god will strike me down. LoLz.

This is hilarious

LordReed:


Because something has always existed, it only changes form. Read up on the laws of conservation of mass and energy.

Even though the laws have limitations i.e not always true.
I don't have issue with something changing form, mass, energy bla bla bla for now, what matters here is how that thing that already existed came to existence? or is it from nothing?

NeoWanZaeed:


You have no idea about what you are talking about

Most religions I know believe that their supreme god is supernatural, if you have any religion where a human is worshiped as the supreme god, kindly mention them.

tintingz:


1. So you believe it's a matter of unseen(mystery) hence your god can create something from nothing but when someone said the universe came from nothing you find it absurd?

ALLAH said He is the creator, the same One who gave you limited knowledge [or do man think he can know everything?] unseen matter are only revealed through prophets. By nature we cannot force ourselves to believe the universe came from nothing even the most retard of man will not take that, in the same vein, by nature we must believe that there is something a creator behind this magnificient world of ours. This is an intelligent design no doubt.
Less you want to start following Darwinian evolution theory which is even crazier to hold as truth.

tintingz:


2. If something must have a creator or originator, who's the creator of your god?

By revelation, He said He was neither created not given birth to.
By natural inclination the supreme originator is not and will never be a product of origination [CREATION].
HE gave us the tools to absurb this...Check Qur 76:1-3 again.
also Quran 67:10

tintingz:


Thank you brother. Trust you're doing great.

I've been doing alright.

I've come 180° on my convictions on religion and Islam, since we last interacted.
Funny how life goes sometimes.

tintingz:
This is word of mouth and more also ridiculous.

check Qur 75:31-40

Anaybira:
https://abdurrahman.org/2019/04/06/the-noble-quran-hilali-muhsin-khan/

Pls get this because it will sometimes be cumbersome to be quoting the Quran by typing.

Anaybira:

Even though the laws have limitations i.e not always true.
I don't have issue with something changing form, mass, energy bla bla bla for now, what matters here is how that thing that already existed came to existence? or is it from nothing?

I repeat, something has always existed. At no point was there nothing.

Anaybira:

check Qur 75:31-40

You're using Quran verses as evidence to someone that doesn't believe in the book? Lol

IMAliyu:

I've been doing alright.

I've come 180° on my convictions on religion and Islam, since we last interacted.
Funny how life goes sometimes.

You're still a muslim?

Anaybira:

ALLAH said He is the creator, the same One who gave you limited knowledge [or do man think he can know everything?] unseen matter are only revealed through prophets. By nature we cannot force ourselves to believe the universe came from nothing even the most retard of man will not take that, in the same vein, by nature we must believe that there is something a creator behind this magnificient world of ours. This is an intelligent design no doubt.
Less you want to starting following Darwinian evolution theory which is even crazier to hold as truth.

Again, you're going in circles. Quoting the Quran doesn't solve the question of why your god created the universe from nothing. It's ridiculous to quote a book that's subjective to your religion. It's like saying the reason superman can fly is because it's written in the comic.

A god creating the universe from nothing is as absurd as someone who claims the universe came from nothing. Both parties can make claims since it's based on subjective beliefs.

Anaybira:

By revelation, He said He was neither created not given birth to.
By natural inclination the supreme originator is not and will never be a product of origination [CREATION].
HE gave us the tools to absurb this...Check Qur 76:1-3 again.
also Quran 67:10

Oh my goodness.

tintingz:
You're still a muslim?

No, ex-Muslim/Agnostic atheist, now.

Tho I'm forced to keep up appearances with family and friends.

LordReed:

I repeat, something has always existed. At no point was there nothing.

You believe in Big bang?

Anaybira:

You believe in Big bang?

I am not a believer. I accept the scientific basis and evidence for the big bang.

tintingz:


Most religions I know believe that their supreme god is supernatural, if you have any religion where a human is worshiped as the supreme god, kindly mention them.

You are brain dead. Don't quote me again.

Christians worship Jesus who's a human being.
Jews worship Ezra
Buhdiist worship Buddha who's a human being

The list goes on and on

LordReed:


I am not a believer. I accept the scientific basis and evidence for the big bang.

you just mention scientific? So the bigbang is a fact that got its evidence from scientic method?

tintingz:


You're using Quran verses as evidence to someone that doesn't believe in the book? Lol

you don't have to believe, just to reply you. You got it already?

NeoWanZaeed:


You are brain dead. Don't quote me again.

Christians worship Jesus who's a human being.
Jews worship Ezra
Buhdiist worship Buddha who's a human being

The list goes on and on

We just gave you 2 religions where a human is not worshipped but you ignored it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Shows how poor your reasoning really is.

Anaybira:

you just mention scientific? So the bigbang is a fact that got its evidence from scientic method?

Yes.

tintingz:


Again, you're going in circles. Quoting the Quran doesn't solve the question of why your god created the universe from nothing. It's ridiculous to quote a book that's subjective to your religion. It's like saying the reason superman can fly is because it's written in the comic.

A god creating the universe from nothing is as absurd as someone who claims the universe came from nothing. Both parties can make claims since it's based on subjective beliefs.

check quran 2:117

IMAliyu:

No, ex-Muslim/Agnostic atheist, now.

Tho I'm forced to keep up appearances with family and friends.

Wow that's great. Welcome to the club brother.

The family part is necessary, it's something most African atheists can relate too.

What year did it happen?

tintingz:
Wow that's great. Welcome to the club brother.

The family part is necessary, it's something most African atheists can relate too.

What year did it happen?

I can't really say, as it was sort of a gradual thing.
But I never recovered from a question I asked in 2020 which I made a thread for, which was "How Should One Find Out Which Religion Is The Truth?"
The fact that I could never find a decent answer to this bothered me.
I could concede the grounds that a God exists and created the universe for argument sake, but I still couldn't make an argument or come to the logical conclusion for any specific religion (primarily Islam) being empirically valid or the truth from that.

This stuck with me, as to why Allah if real, would make the evidence for his religion as weak as for all the other supposed false religions.
Considering the very high stakes here, which is eternal torture. You would think a loving, Merciful creator that doesn't want that for us, would make proving it's religion to be as simple and reliable as proving the existence of gravity. Rather we are stuck arguing about ancient books that even members of the religion can't all agree on it's interpretations and meaning.
This would either mean God is not good but in fact cruel, or non of this is real and it's entirely manmade.

I still kept up with Salat, and Ramadan fasting up until sometime 2022 thinking I am wrong, and maybe if I learned even more, that I would change my mind, and regain my faith.
That never happened, the more I learned the more manmade everything looked, and Salat and fasting became a very hollow and demanding chore, that I had to drop

To an extent I still feel a level of loss here, considering I did infact think Islam was really the Truth, with all questions answered, that was why I was so eager to engage and defend it in the past.

NeoWanZaeed:


You are brain dead. Don't quote me again.

Christians worship Jesus who's a human being.
Jews worship Ezra
Buhdiist worship Buddha who's a human being

The list goes on and on

Christians worship a supernatural god, Jews don't worship Ezra they worship Yahweh, Buddhists don't worship Buddha infact Buddhists don't believe in concept of supreme god.

You can insult me all you want but your argument is ridiculous still.

Anaybira:

you don't have to believe, just to reply you. You got it already?

Quran is not an evidence for how the universe came to be.