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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by bemeruca: 4:51pm On Jul 01 |
happney65: Really? |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by PDPGuy: 4:51pm On Jul 01 |
happney65: The delineation between “official” and “unofficial” acts would rest with the DC District court. But as raumdeuter suggested, I would think that Judge Chutkin (of the DC District Court) would likely find that Trump, asking a Secret Service agent to assassinate a rival candidate for president, would fall under “unofficial acts”. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by bemeruca: 4:52pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: they always tend to decide wrong when it comes to Trump. I think the Supreme court will be very busy 1 Like |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 4:52pm On Jul 01 |
happney65: Exactly. The state official one, we will find out. They will have a hearing about it and then it will go back to the Supreme Court.. because it's Trump. The supporters one, he can argue he was giving an "official speech" so it was an official act. And because it was an official act, whatever he said there couldn't be used to prosecute him. They may have spoken to that one, but haven't read the full ruling yet. 1 Like |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by raumdeuter: 4:52pm On Jul 01 |
happney65: The court is not a place for emotions or emotional arguments Let me ask you are all acts by President official? or unofficial? Should a president be prosecuted for ordering the killing of Osama or Suleimani? 1 Like |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by raumdeuter: 4:54pm On Jul 01 |
PDPGuy: this is one of the most straight forward ruling ever Why should SCOTUS be scrutinizing every case as official or unofficial? They are fairly straight forward and where they are not clear, a lower court can clarify 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by sanpipita(m): 4:54pm On Jul 01 |
happney65: Lol Watergate would have been considered official act. 1 Like |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by raumdeuter: 4:55pm On Jul 01 |
sanpipita: How is spying on a rival an official act? If its official to you then go and argue it in lower court 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by happney65: 4:57pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: Osama and Suleimani are people who killed Americans isn't it? They are criminals. All over the world they kill criminals. So how would you compare this to other cases? If Obama had his political opponent killed, he should be tried. Osama isn't Obama's political opponent. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 4:57pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: But the Supreme Court will. Because all the rulings will go back up to them. Chutka will decide, Trump will appeal to the circuit and then to the Supreme Court. No, all acts of President's shouldn't be covered under immunity. They have to much power to be covered under immunity. For core constitutional questions, yes. But the rance of official acts is very broad. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 4:59pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: Your missing the point. It's not the destination that determines whether it's official. It's the vehicle they use to get to the desitination. If he sent the DOJ to spy on someone that by my reading of this would be an official act. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by bemeruca: 5:01pm On Jul 01 |
ijebosb: like if Biden sends the DOJ to kill a political opponent? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by happney65: 5:01pm On Jul 01 |
PDPGuy: And if he says "Killing a political opponent is the best for America and saying he is a threat to America and can be classified under official acts" E.G, A Trump that didn't want to leave power or asked his supporters to invade the Capitol. So how would it be classified as unofficial acts? If a sitting president decides to do that,tell me how it will be classied |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by sanpipita(m): 5:05pm On Jul 01 |
ijebosb: Lol
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 5:05pm On Jul 01 |
bemeruca: This is an interesting discussion and you're doing your childish lying trolling thing again. Pushing debunked disinformation. Go to your corner and suck your thumb like the child you are. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 5:07pm On Jul 01 |
sanpipita: The first is part of the ruling. The second Barrett who was in the majority disagreeing with this line of thinking.
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by bemeruca: 5:10pm On Jul 01 |
ijebosb: Lmao. This is your understanding? You said something stupid, since it's the vehicle not the destination that determines it. If he used the Vehicle (DOJ) to kill a political opponent, will it be official? According to your reading that will be an official act. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by raumdeuter: 5:12pm On Jul 01 |
happney65: You are missing the point, Osama and Suleimani killing will fall under official killing, Joe Random even if he is a criminal/killer as long as he hasnt been found guilty by court. You have no right to order his killing. is an unofficial killing You will be prosecuted for Joe Random, you have immunity for Osama 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by raumdeuter: 5:13pm On Jul 01 |
ijebosb: the bold is exactly what the SCOTUS said and you have an issue with it 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by bemeruca: 5:14pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: Clearance Thomas is there 1 Like |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 5:16pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: I think you are missing the point. If he uses a process that is part of his Presidential powers to kill Joe Random, you can't even question why he did it by this ruling. Once he uses a process that is considered an "official act", the end goal becomes off limits. Like if he gives an official speech and in that speech tells you to kill his wife, and you do. That is an an official act and he would be immune. Though killing his wife wouldn't be an unofficial act, because he told you to do so in an official speech, you have no proof of it, because you can't use those words to prosecute him. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by PDPGuy: 5:16pm On Jul 01 |
happney65: Now, your first hypo is where it could get tricky. I wouldn’t want to believe that a reasonable judge would agree that your first hypo is an official act, because even if the political opponent has committed treason against the U.S., he/she would still have to go through due process before a punishment can be meted out to that person. But if that same rival, for eg, takes hostages in a federal building, while being armed and threatens to shoot all the hostages unless a President Trump (or Biden) withdraws from the race, a court may decide that the sitting president has the official power to authorize the FBI’s SWAT team to take out that rival. No doubt that the DOJ and the court may reason that the president’s duty to protect lives and property would be sufficient justification for the president to authorize the on the spot shooting of his rival, in that circumstance. As to your second example, the District court would most likely hold that, Trump allegedly asking his supporters to invade Capitol Hill, would be outside the scope of his official duties, especially if he didn’t use any instrument of governance ie the DOJ, FBI etc to pass that order to his supporters. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Laurene: 5:17pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter:They truly understand these things but their hate for Trump wouldn't let them reason... It's just partisanship! They're all coping over X(formerly Twitter) and it's glorious . The reverse would have been the case if Obama was standing trial. Besides politics has entered the courts as democrats initiated that during the confirmation of Robert Bork back in the 80s, Thomas' confirmation in the 90s, Alito's confirmation in 2005 and the worst of all Kavanaugh's confirmation in 2018... So they have no reason to cry foul now This is a perfectly-timed also a delay strategy (due to the politics involved)...Thomas and Alito wouldn't love Biden or a Democrat to name their replacement as they're definitely retiring if Trump wins. 3 Likes |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Laurene: 5:19pm On Jul 01 |
happney65:Yet again with the talking points... |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by sanpipita(m): 5:21pm On Jul 01 |
This thing is too funny 2 Likes
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 5:24pm On Jul 01 |
Hilarious 1 Like
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 5:31pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: Sotomayer spoke to this in her dissent. 1 Like
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by raumdeuter: 5:32pm On Jul 01 |
ijebosb: That is for the lower courts to decide what is official or not Then the defence and prosecutors will argue in court |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by ijebosb: 5:35pm On Jul 01 |
raumdeuter: I think the difference, I believe the the province of his official acts is quite broad. So, there is little difference to me between what they allowed to be immune and all his possible actions. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by sanpipita(m): 5:39pm On Jul 01 |
Sotomayor: "With fear for our democracy, I dissent." |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by LordAdam16: 5:46pm On Jul 01 |
Laurene: Their tears is delicious. Ain't expending any time in a back and forth with TDS patients about the ruling. We move. Next up is Merchan. -Lord |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by raumdeuter: 5:48pm On Jul 01 |
ijebosb: Then its left for the lower court to decide if he used his powers in the way Sotomayor is suggesting. The simple thing is there are protected official acts and unprotected unofficial acts or does Sotomayor expect the SCOTUS to say All President acts are NOT covered under immunity? Then that is opening a different kettle which might include the killing of Osama Suleimani, Zarqarwhi etc where all former POTUS are going to face criminal proceedings To you which of these will be right? All President acts are covered under immunity or All president acts are NOT covered under immunity |
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