[quote author=Zahra29 post=130729259]

Lol, we can all agree that it was a very relaxed route, yes?

It was a route that highlighted the shortsightedness of Brexit and the desperation of the UK government to seek oversees labour to fill gaps rather than let wages rise and the govt/populace pay up as they had promised voters

And this is in part because to the answer to your first question;
1. Yes the UK needs immigrants. Every country does to an extent, even Nigeria to replace the vast numbers of professionals leaving the country.

Where we tend to disagree is that every country has the sovereign right to determine if and how many immigrants it wants to allow in. Even if they have a declining native birth rate, it's still their decision. You can't force them to open their borders more than they want to in order to accommodate migrants (not refugees) who want to come in.

Perhaps you're mistaken. I've never questioned that 'right'. What I've done is discuss immigration policies, drivers and resultant effects. Nigeria adds over 4 million people yearly. Without immigration, the UK populace would be in decline. What Nigeria mainly needs is to upskill its populace

2. It's very difficult to estimate. I don't think any country has managed to pin it down to an exact number. What most countries do is open the tap when they need immigrant workforce and then close it when they've had enough.

You should also realise that skilled workers (which is the main group of immigrants referenced on this thread) represent only a fraction of UK immigrants. There is a significant number of immigrants on the family route, for example the spouses of British citizens, who also plug labour shortages and on average pay even more to the government in visa fees - also without any recourse to public funds.

Statistics doesn't work that way. Just like with life expectancy e.t.c trends can be followed. The US has a cap on certain visas, canada last year outlined how many PRs they hope to issue per year till 2026.
What I had expected the UK govt to do is to institute an independent advisory panel that advises what estimated net migration numbers are needed by the economy to keep afloat and where these numbers are mostly needed and what percentage should be for work visas. This should be done protectively taking lots of economic variables into account. Parties can then campaign based of that. If we had such in place, it'd have been obvious that the net migration from the EU wasn't horrendous. It'd have been obvious that the care industry would struggle post-Brexit.
I'd say 300k - 500k net are needed yearly. Govt officials know this but are too timid to relay this to voters

babajeje123:

Went to a church last Sunday for the first time and that was the stupid question their pastor asked me after greetings.
Him: bla bla bla, when are you going back to Nigeria?
Me: (snaps) I don't know
A black British for that matter! Probably was privileged to be born here by black immigrants.

Lol. Na to ask am same question too na

Another one I get is I hope you don't mind asking where youre from? Once I guage the purpose of the question, My reply is sometimes stating the town I live in. Some get it and keep shut. Manytimes, I reply 'I'm from Scotland'. Looking confused perhaps thinking I didn't hear them, they're like no, I mean where you're actually from and I reply again 'Scotland or do you have a problem with that'? Responses are in the line of hmmm... ok.. na there useless question dey end.
It's funny how microagrressions fizzle out once properly challenged.

I once told one being, I've never met an American who is not an immigrant given I've never met a Native American. Same apllies to Aus

Occasionally, I encounter those reasonably curious and if I have the time, I engage

missjekyll:


This is not a very good point , zahra.
What use is a mind if you can't change it?
People join the resistance at any age. Anyone is welcome to the resistance at anytime.

I fully agree and I'm not knocking growth or change.

I just think it a bit odd that considering how passionate you are when it comes to UK issues /policies, your resistance seems muted or non existent in contrast when blatant Nigerian issues or injustices are discussed on this thread.

In fairness, perhaps you're more vocal on other threads that I'm not aware of.

[quote author=jedisco post=130751079][/quote]

It was a route that highlighted the shortsightedness of Brexit and the desperation of the UK government to seek oversees labour to fill gaps rather than let wages rise and the govt/populace pay up as they had promised voters

Regardless of the motive it was still a very generous route until it was abused. The UK government may have its motives, immigrants also have their own motives - they are not missionaries coming over out of the sheer goodness of their hearts.

I'd say 300k - 500k net are needed yearly. Govt officials know this but are too timid to relay this to voters

That's your opinion. In a democracy, the government gets its mandate from the people and most of the public want lower net migration because they recognise and feel the negative and cultural effects of very high levels of migration. You might not agree but it's their choice to make, which should be respected, and their consequences to deal with.

Other European countries are also pressing on the brakes. With Le Pen, "Frexit" might soon be on the horizon. Germany has pivoted from the Merkel open border days of "all immigrants/refugees are welcome" to the far right gaining ground and deportations being ramped up. Hungary and other eastern European countries don't even want to take in genuine refugees, never mind other immigrants. The US supreme court just passed a ruling that American citizens don't have a fundamental right to bring their spouses into the US. Wait till Trump gets in in November and see how ruthless he will be on immigration. Australia and Canada have recently scaled back their student visa and other routes. There is a rising populism trend among Western countries, most of whom are clamping down on high levels of immigration.

jedisco:


Lol. Na to ask am same question too na

Another one I get is I hope you don't mind asking where youre from? Once I guage the purpose of the question, My reply is sometimes stating the town I live in. Some get it and keep shut. Manytimes, I reply 'I'm from Scotland'. Looking confused perhaps thinking I didn't hear them, they're like no, I mean where you're actually from and I reply again 'Scotland or do you have a problem with that'? Responses are in the line of hmmm... ok.. na there useless question dey end.
It's funny how microagrressions fizzle out once properly challenged.

I once told one being, I've never met an American who is not an immigrant given I've never met a Native American. Same apllies to Aus

Occasionally, I encounter those reasonably curious and if I have the time, I engage

It's not that deep. Even people who were born and grew up here get asked this. Or "where are you originally from".

It's the experience of ethnic minorities as a whole and not just immigrants.

ehizario2012:
Guys, what's this thing about Labour controlled councils and boroughs being bankrupt? Is Labour really the best? What I'm reading online is confusing... They not looking like the angels I thought them to be.

In the UK GE, you're primarily voting for your local MP to represent you. So it might help your decision making process to focus on the candidates standing in your constituency - what key issues are they campaigning on, what is their voting record like, how active/passionate have they been/appear to be? Then pick the best candidate to represent you, regardless of their party affiliation.

missjekyll:

What choices, the children had no hand in any of these. We can't let them starve to punish their parents. They have come in hungry to school this morning, they have to eat.

You are assuming their parents are "irresponsible " and do not work. That is not true.There are also children of working parents who are in this group due to low pay and high cost of living.

I am not assuming, there are a lot of parents in that category. I sympathize with working parents who try to make ends meet and agree that more can be done to improve their situation. A lot of these problems increased rapidly in the last few years as a result of global pandemic and a war that has affected economies and cost of living worldwide, consequences not exclusive to the UK. Problems that few people alive have experienced and no playbook to navigate the times. the number of economically inactive people increased significantly because there was free money from the government and they did not see any reason to go back to work. could the government have performed better, yes, but to place all the blame on them that i do not agree with.

Zahra29:


I fully agree and I'm not knocking growth or change.

I just think it a bit odd that considering how passionate you are when it comes to UK issues /policies, your resistance seems muted or non existent in contrast when blatant Nigerian issues or injustices are discussed on this thread.

In fairness, perhaps you're more vocal on other threads that I'm not aware of.

I still don't think it's a good point. I could ask the same question of you.
Zahra, Why are you not as passionate about Nigerian causes? Are you active on other threads that I do not know of?

Good morning, who knows of a recommend pocket friendly hotel/guest house not too far from Ikeja Airport?

rock86:
Good morning, who knows of a recommend pocket friendly hotel/guest house not too far from Ikeja Airport?

Chantellier or Posh hotel is from 20k.
It's close to Ikeja Customary court.

Goodenoch:

..

Permanent emigration is not quite as popular and embedded in the public psyche among Brits as it is among people from certain other countries. It's the rare exception rather than the norm.
..

All forms of migration especially permanent migration is very much a part of both past and contemporary British culture. Yeah, times change but its mainly the perception and reporting that differ. When Brits/certain Europeans migrate, they see it as their right. When black folks migrate, its pictured as a privilege.

Even on here, mention of Nigerians relocating the UK is christened as 'folks in search of utopia'. Meanwhile, you'd hear words like explorer, risk taker, yolo, expat et.c being used to describe hundreds of thousands of Brits who emigrate yearly.

missjekyll:
This just out.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/30/the-baby-bust-how-britains-falling-birthrate-is-creating-alarm-in-the-economy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Interesting read. I find all the comparisons to Japan a good pointer. It's as though western nations are closely following and telling themselves: we don't want to go there.. I also see state school kids are dropping. There'd be enough room for kids of your friends leaving private schools afterall.. hehe

So far, virtually no nation has been able to reverse declining birth rates. It doesn't help that the social net in the West is more of a ponzi scheme needing more new entrants, plus the part that older folks who paid in relatively little for short periods want an increasingly larger pie for longer periods they now live thanks to modern science. At some point, an equilibrium would be reached but no one knows what that'd look like. Perhaps many 'rainbow' nations.

One other thing is the chatter about carers and their net contribution. A previous post highlighted the many ways care workers with families contribute prospectively. An additional way is to look at it retrospectively and see what it'd cost Britain with a falling population to source its care workers locally.
First, people have to be incentivised to have more kids, then maternity and paternity pay for parents, pay for that childs nursery, education, health and sometimes housing. This is the best case scenario as costs might be much higher if citizens have health issues. At the end of the day, you have an adult ready to work in care but whom the government has spent over 150k on already. Given low pay, that adult might still need ongoing government support with housing. If they are off-sick e.t.c, govt has to support.
Now compare that with an adult immigrant that costs the government zero. Even before the immigrant starts working, the nation is already reaping benefits by way of visa fees and the country is sure of 5 years of solid hard work without benefits plus a handsome ILR+citizenship cheque submitted at the end. Moreso, the govt sometimes uses them to subsidise pay that'd otherwise have been higher. A similar scenario happened in nursing with the govt even going on to scrap local bursaries. It becomes quite clear why western leaders tilt towards immigration when the seek growth. It's benefits when done well are tremendous.

jedisco:


All forms of migration especially permanent migration is very much a part of both past and contemporary British culture. Yeah, times change but its mainly the perception and reporting that differ. When Brits/certain Europeans migrate, they see it as their right. When black folks migrate, its pictured as a privilege.

Even on here, mention of Nigerians relocating the UK is christened as 'folks in search of utopia'. Meanwhile, you'd hear words like explorer, risk taker, yolo, expat et.c being used to describe hundreds of thousands of Brits who emigrate yearly.

"Not quite as popular".

Everything you've said is irrelevant to the point I made about how the popularity of temporary vs permanent travel varies greatly between the UK and say, Nigeria.

I understand why you like to think it's a matter of perception because it soothes your ego and boosts your victim complex but Google the figures (actual figures and also per capita) of people who permanently migrate out of those countries annually and compare.

jedisco:


All forms of migration especially permanent migration is very much a part of both past and contemporary British culture. Yeah, times change but its mainly the perception and reporting that differ. When Brits/certain Europeans migrate, they see it as their right. When black folks migrate, its pictured as a privilege.

Even on here, mention of Nigerians relocating the UK is christened as 'folks in search of utopia'. Meanwhile, you'd hear words like explorer, risk taker, yolo, expat et.c being used to describe hundreds of thousands of Brits who emigrate yearly.

To be fair, this phrase is used to describe people who go from place to place, finding fault in every place, like they imagine there to be a perfect place on earth.

Goodenoch:


"Not quite as popular".

There is no ego to be had here.. just facts. It'd interest you to know that the percentage of British emigrants as a percentage of total population has for a very long time exceeded the corresponding ratio of Nigerian emigrants. Infact, positive net migration in the UK has only been a relatively recent phenomenon. Migration is as old as man and exists in every society with constantly changing trends. Even after we're far gone, migration would still continue.

missjekyll:


I still don't think it's a good point. I could ask the same question of you.
Zahra, Why are you not as passionate about Nigerian causes? Are you active on other threads that I do not know of?

Nope, and simply because I know little about Nigerian issues,causes,politics etc apart from what I hear from other people or read online like on this forum.

I may sometimes join in discussions but it's difficult to contribute when I don't have many facts or first hand experience. Personally I'd like the opportunity to do something tangible like sponsoring someone in genuine need, such as a child's education, rather than blabbing on about topics I know nought about.

I imagine that I would be more vocal/passionate/concerned about a place I had lived all my life, even if I moved away, which is why I was curious.

jedisco:

All forms of migration especially permanent migration is very much a part of both past and contemporary British culture. Yeah, times change but its mainly the perception and reporting that differ. When Brits/certain Europeans migrate, they see it as their right. When black folks migrate, its pictured as a privilege.

Yeah I'd agree with this. How else would Australia or Canada have been populated in the first place?

Sadly the vast majority of Brits don't know British history too well. It's not their fault or anything. British history in school mostly only covers Tudors and WW1/WW2 🫠 (with zero mention of the Africa parts too)

But in the days of the British Empire migration was encouraged willy nilly. South Asians would move to East Africa - Kenya, Uganda, Brits would move to Australia or Canada or Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was technically complete free movement around the Empire/Commonwealth up until 1962. Obviously it was a lot less feasible technically.

Goodenoch:


I understand why you like to think it's a matter of perception because it soothes your ego and boosts your victim complex.

I’m not sure why you always feel the need to throw a jab when you’re involved in a discourse.

kwakudtraveller:

I’m not sure why you always feel the need to throw a jab when you’re involved in a discourse. 

Okay.

Any tips on how to get an outside IR35 job? I don apply tire and no luck.

Hello,
I heard from someone now that the ban on BRP holders (e,g Nigerians) from transiting through Europe (Air France, Lifthuansa, etc) has been lifted.
Is it true please?

Abiodunnn:
Hello,
I heard from someone now that the ban on BRP holders (e,g Nigerians) from transiting through Europe (Air France, Lifthuansa, etc) has been lifted.
Is it true please?

I thought so too until I saw this -
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/favourborokini_hi-everyone-this-post-is-not-going-to-ugcPost-7212883391413710850-uJDz?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android

kwakudtraveller:
Any tips on how to get an outside IR35 job? I don apply tire and no luck.

My friend… Remain Inside. You ain’t going nowhere.. you ain’t going Outside.

By this time on Friday, there is every likelihood that even the perks you are ‘enjoying’ Inside will be taken away, or further reduced.

When you hear Oga Keir Starmer deliberately muddy the waters about what tax increases to expect, you think Rachel Reeves isn’t using corner eye 👁️ eye to look at Outside gigs?

Bro. Just be ready to pay a little more in taxes from your Inside gig. Afterall, the wealthy on society (like you) must be willing to pay their fair share of taxes.

PS:
I take my definition of ‘Wealthy’ from the last BBC Question Time debate, where the leader of one of the parties (not conservatives) stated the threshold for high earners as 50,000 per annum (before tax).

On a lighter note, if you see any of them Outside gigs, Biko, holla at me. Me sef dey find.

We are trying to move from Scotland to Liverpool. Please where are the safest and cheapest places to live ( we love some space but most houses we are seeing online are quite tight unlike where we live in Scotland). Also, which Agency is best to use in Liverpool?

kwakudtraveller:
Any tips on how to get an outside IR35 job? I don apply tire and no luck.

Outside roles have become rare especially in FS, so extremely competitive. It's also not as lucrative as it used to be due to changes in the tax rules.

However some inside roles can be converted to outside IR35 if a strong case can be made that it meets the criteria such as working autonomously with very limited management input or direction. However HMRC are very strict, a few broadcasters have had to go to court on this issue.

Easier route might be to vote for Reform who have pledged to scrap IR35 lol

ReesheesuKnack:


My friend… Remain Inside. You ain’t going nowhere.. you ain’t going Outside.

By this time on Friday, there is every likelihood that even the perks you are ‘enjoying’ Inside will be taken away, or further reduced.

When you hear Oga Keir Starmer deliberately muddy the waters about what tax increases to expect, you think Rachel Reeves isn’t using corner eye 👁️ eye to look at Outside gigs?

Bro. Just be ready to pay a little more in taxes from your Inside gig. Afterall, the wealthy on society (like you) must be willing to pay their fair share of taxes.

PS:
I take my definition of ‘Wealthy’ from the last BBC Question Time debate, where the leader of one of the parties (not conservatives) stated the threshold for high earners as 50,000 per annum (before tax).

On a lighter note, if you see any of them Outside gigs, Biko, holla at me. Me sef dey find.

Lol...the lady in Green.

Fully agree that Labour will try to clamp down even further on IR35 and any remaining tax loopholes/discounts of the creative nature.

Stamp duty for 1st time buyers is also going up from early next year as they've said they will not renew the current relief (from £300k - 425k)

Zahra29:



Outside roles have become rare especially in FS, so extremely competitive. It's also not as lucrative as it used to be due to changes in the tax rules.

However some inside roles can be converted to outside IR35 if a strong case can be made that it meets the criteria such as working autonomously with very limited management input or direction. However HMRC are very strict, a few broadcasters have had to go to court on this issue.

Easier route might be to vote for Reform who have pledged to scrap IR35 lol

What is FS?

I have decided to make this UK my home. I think it is/was the right decision. I have gotten opportunities that I could only have dreamt of, in my own country. Where Adanna refused to marry me. Not because I am an alien, not because I was Hausa or Yoruba. Not because I was a bad lover or not a good husband material.
Although I am/was Igbo. From Imo state. Adanna wasn’t allowed to marry me, because I am/was an Mbise man.

The UK has its own issues, lots of issues, but I am happy to be here. At least the society gave me a better (and fairer) chance. Therefore, I can only wish the best for the UK. Afterall, the Bible says, pray for the peace (and prosperity) of the nation where thou livest.


I believe the UK will experience ‘Change’ on Thursday.

I am however really afraid that the ‘Change’ being promised has not some, but ALL the hallmarks of the Buhari/Osinbajo APC Nigeria 2014/2015 Change.

I have said this on this forum a zillion times. The ‘Change’ that will come on Thursday is very highly likely going to be like Nigeria’s APC 2015 change.

As Nigerians in the UK, all we can do is wish for the best. But, I will implore all to manage our expectations, keep working hard and keep pressing on. But, eldorado is not going to come on Friday morning. Selah.

ReesheesuKnack:


My friend… Remain Inside. You ain’t going nowhere.. you ain’t going Outside.

By this time on Friday, there is every likelihood that even the perks you are ‘enjoying’ Inside will be taken away, or further reduced.

When you hear Oga Keir Starmer deliberately muddy the waters about what tax increases to expect, you think Rachel Reeves isn’t using corner eye 👁️ eye to look at Outside gigs?

Bro. Just be ready to pay a little more in taxes from your Inside gig. Afterall, the wealthy on society (like you) must be willing to pay their fair share of taxes.

PS:
I take my definition of ‘Wealthy’ from the last BBC Question Time debate, where the leader of one of the parties (not conservatives) stated the threshold for high earners as 50,000 per annum (before tax).

On a lighter note, if you see any of them Outside gigs, Biko, holla at me. Me sef dey find.

Starmer described the Working Class in one of the interviews as people that live from pay-check to pay-check without any savings. By inference the rest of us are wealthy and he is coming for us

P.S I have already voted for the Conservatives. Wasted vote maybe but better the devil you know.

Another reason to vote Labour. It seems Peter Obi has an alliance with UK Labour since Rishi Sunak was the first world leader to congratulate Tinubu after the controversial elections. Impressive!

Jamesclooney:
Another reason to vote Labour. It seems Peter Obi has an alliance with UK Labour since Rishi Sunak was the first world leader to congratulate Tinubu after the controversial elections. Impressive!

It's not because of a congratulatory message.

Both Labour UK and Nigeria are affiliated with and primarily funded by (some would say they are offshoots of) labour unions in those countries and those organisations are themselves affiliated internationally (via the ILO, etc.), so it's natural for them to work together.

Peerielass:


Starmer described the Working Class in one of the interviews as people that live from pay-check to pay-check without any savings. By inference the rest of us are wealthy and he is coming for us

P.S I have already voted for the Conservatives. Wasted vote maybe but better the devil you know.

I don't think that your vote is wasted, 😕 f they see the vote difference is close it will keep them on their toes knowing they can easily lose your constituency