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Re: God Ordains Slavery by SIRTee15: 1:09pm On Sep 27 |
jaephoenix: Ask your colleague adeniyi65 who seems to think flogging is synonymous with slavery. Don't ask me. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by jaephoenix(m): 1:27pm On Sep 27 |
SIRTee15:Flogging is a feature in slavery. Again I don't know why its brought up |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 1:48pm On Sep 27 |
jaephoenix: Obviously your none sanity has begun for clearly this thread already shows every argument made and the clear fact that you went Mad when you saw you had no reasonable thing to say. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 1:51pm On Sep 27 |
jaephoenix: Says the Mad person who went Mad when he saw he has no reasonable thing to say. And still does not have any reasonable thing to say. So you are obviously mad and just want to hear the stupid sound of your voice. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by SIRTee15: 1:51pm On Sep 27 |
adeniyi65: Moreover exodus 21.26 talks about the penalty for inflicting permanent injury on a slave. If a slave suffers permanent injury due to excessive beating or any physical abuse, the slave must go free. Even if it's a minor thing like knocking off one of his tooth, the slave MUST BE RELEASED AND BE FREE- HE SHOULD NO LONGER BE A SLAVE. That's the compensation for the victim. So as StillDtruth already emphasized, God instituted labour laws to ensure abuse of slaves is heavily discouraged. U can't beat a slave to death neither can U beat him in a manner to leave a permanent injury. Exodus 21 26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth. Moreover, if U read the book of Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy without prejudice, U will notice the labour laws instituted by God made it very difficult for people to own slaves for life except if the slave choose to. Lands bought must be returned back to the original owner in the year of jubilee making excessive acquisition of land and increasing demand for free labour impractical. There are Sabbath years for lands where U don't do anything on the land, what then would U need slaves for? Slaves have the right of redemption, they should be released by the 7th year of slavery or the year of jubilee. Relatives can also buy them out of their status at anytime. Owners must treat slaves like they are hired workers. The only difference is that they are not paid any wages. That means slaves must not be treated like slaves as we understand it today. Owners must also compensate freed slaves with few possessions when they leave. Freed slaves must not leave their master's household empty handed. Foreign slaves who turn to YHWH and embrace the covenant God established with Israel automatically gets treated with above privileges because the God commanded strangers dwelling amongst Israelites should be treated fairly according to the mosaic law. If U are sincere, U will admit all these labour laws instituted by God makes it uneconomical to keep slaves except if really necessary. I can as well get hired workers to do the job since labour was cheap in those days, rather than having someone I'm feeding yet burdened with all the above responsibilities. Finally to the argument, why did God not just ban slavery or say it's wrong. This argument lies in the poor understanding of the Hebrew word for slavery as used in the bible and how the welfare system work in ancient civilization. I will explain on that later. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by SIRTee15: 1:55pm On Sep 27 |
jaephoenix: Flogging is a feature in most master-surbodinate relationship. Teachers flog students. Senior officers in military flog the junior ones. Apprentice are regularly flogged by the boss as part of the training. Pls don't tell me above has anything to do with slavery. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 1:57pm On Sep 27 |
SIRTee15: Precisely! Its all there in Black and White and God was the first to stop Slavery in all the world we all see the first antislavery Pronunciations by man only began in the 1770's whereas God had long since abolished slavery, but devils and self blinded atheists pretend not to see it |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 2:02pm On Sep 27 |
Lucifyre: When a Fool is answered and he sees he is a fool, we all know that the fool will resort to insalts and abuses. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 2:07pm On Sep 27 |
jaephoenix: Clearly, you had nothing to say Mad Fool! |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by Lucifyre: 6:32pm On Sep 27 |
StillDtruth: 😅 Not only 'insalt', what about inpepper and inonion? Calling you a grade A m0ron is a compliment. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 8:10pm On Sep 27 |
Lucifyre: Says the illiterate universal Fool having nothing but insalts to say. 1 Like |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by Lucifyre: 9:49pm On Sep 27 |
StillDtruth: You're obviously describing your saggy titted mother who wholesomely passed the retardation genes unto you. 'Insalt' 🤣 As dumb as he speaks. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by adeniyi65(m): 7:39am On Sep 28 |
StillDtruth:Replying this again in detail is like going back and forth. And I will resist the urge. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by adeniyi65(m): 7:39am On Sep 28 |
SIRTee15: |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by adeniyi65(m): 7:49am On Sep 28 |
SIRTee15:you have been ignored already, I can't continue to waste precious time with someone I'm sincere with but choose to be submerged in emotion and sentiment. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by adeniyi65(m): 7:56am On Sep 28 |
StillDtruth: |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by adeniyi65(m): 8:09am On Sep 28 |
SIRTee15:Abandoning those verses that clearly support slavery to suit their ideology. Especially the one that teaches how you can multiply your slaves 4 "If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. wow, more slaves more power to the master. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by adeniyi65(m): 8:22am On Sep 28 |
SIRTee15:Don't just try to apply that barbaric act of those era to the present moment to judge slavery.because if I'm to be frank with you, you can face law because of the later things you wrote to justify slavery. People flogging people at work, teachers flogging children. Soldiers beating themselves. Don't just try to practice it as you advocate for it to justify slavery. 1 Like |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by adeniyi65(m): 8:23am On Sep 28 |
StillDtruth: |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 3:48pm On Sep 28 |
adeniyi65: See how you are just changing post from one issue to another exactly how Liars are always changing their stories, all because you have a very evil mind and therefore you can not see nor appreciate the goodness of God and His Laws Does ordinary common sense not tell you that this means that the servant and Master relationship was so good to the point the servant has become like a son to the master such that the master even gave him a wife, most likely one of his daughters? In your natural life have you seen a Master giving a wife to his servant? is it not with even plenty of sneaking out and abeg that a servant can marry? So where can you find a Master who even gave his servant a wife? Answer:Only in a great master servant relationship where the servant has even become like a son and family and this Law is definitely stopping the wickedness the servant will do in getting all these geeat things from his Master who sees him as his child and family yet he decided to walk away. If you did all these to an employee eg train train him, sent him abroad, gave him above bormal privileges and you even wished he could marry you daughter, whch he did. After all these he still resigned, would you not call the employee a wicked ungrateful person? And would youlet him take all the benefits and gifts you gave him? No. you wouldn't And that is what this Law Says. So rest, you are thinking and talking rubbish because you are too too evil and therefore you can never see the good nor God! |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 3:55pm On Sep 28 |
adeniyi65: That is what we are reminding you that since Genesis 6, you men have always been very wicked, barbaric and evil, And as people have confessed, you people have been more wickeder than the last generation. So today that you even have a mouth to face law and have many things enough for you to call the past barbaric, is because of God's intervention., so you have nothing here. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by jaephoenix(m): 2:41pm On Oct 03 |
SIRTee15:So what is your point? |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by jaephoenix(m): 3:13pm On Oct 03 |
SIRTee15:Did you also read where Yahweh talked about how slave owners can cheat their slaves to work for them for live? Exodus 21:1-25 New International Version 21 “These are the laws you are to set before them: Hebrew Servants 2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free 5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life. From the above, all a slave master has to do to keep an israeli slave for live is to give him wives. Because the slave cannot go away without his wife and kids. So he's basically stuck. Very clever by Yahweh Also all the goodies you talked about in the 'Labor laws' concerned slave Israelites. Non Israeli slaves are slaved for life 39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. 40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee. 41 Then they and their children are to be released, and they will go back to their own clans and to the property of their ancestors. 42 Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves. 43 Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God. 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. 47 “‘If a foreigner residing among you becomes rich and any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to the foreigner or to a member of the foreigner’s clan, 48 they retain the right of redemption after they have sold themselves. One of their relatives may redeem them: 49 An uncle or a cousin or any blood relative in their clan may redeem them. Or if they prosper, they may redeem themselves. 2 Likes |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by jaephoenix(m): 3:15pm On Oct 03 |
adeniyi65:He ignored those. I reminded him of those |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by StillDtruth: 5:03am On Oct 04 |
jaephoenix: You are just hopelessly repeating yourself like a mad person...So, it makes sense to you that for Tinubu to inslave you he needs to give you woves? As many people have told you, you are a Mad person! |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by jaephoenix(m): 8:21pm On Oct 07 |
StillDtruth:That is what your yhwh is doing. And it worked apparently |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by SIRTee15: 7:42pm On Oct 13 |
KnownUnknown: cc adeniyi65 Jaephonix Lucifyre So final rebuttal to the claim that bible promotes slavery. The Hebrew word used for slave in the bible is the same as for servant- eved. The meaning of the word eved range from voluntary servitude, to working off a debt (indentured servitude) or being in bondage (slavery). The original bible authors made no distinction when using the word eved for different scenario. In the Hebrew culture, so long as U serving a man without any wage in return, U are eved. Simple. The context of your service or the circumstances surrounding your service is inconsequential. U are eved so far as you earn no wage rendering a service. That's what make eved different from a hired worker. If we are to apply the ancient use of eved to our modern time, the right word to use would be bondservant- a person bound to serve without wages. In ancient times bond servant/eved could rise to very high status depending on how he's favoured in the eyes of his masters. People like Eliezer of Damascus were actually bondservants but quickly rose in rank to hold important position in their masters household including being an heir or finding a wife for the master's son. That's shows the loose application of the word eved/bondservants in ancient Israel. When God instituted the labour laws, the scenario of modern day which is brutal and oppressive slavery was never in the picture. The American plantation slavery that stems from the transatlantic slave trade is called chatel slavery and it's rightly condemned in the bible. That wasn't the kind of slavery being referred to in the TORAH. The laws given in the Torah was to regulate a system that consist of two kind of workers- those that are earn wages and those that don't. It has nothing to do with chatel slavery. Some people due to poverty, lack of skills or bad debt were not able to earn sufficient wages to take care of themselves. These people would voluntarily become bondservants- eved in exchange for becoming a member of his master's household. God didn't want this kind of people to be maltreated or abused in anyway and that's why he established the labour laws seen in the law of Moses. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by SIRTee15: 8:13pm On Oct 13 |
adeniyi65: cc Jaephonix Labour law is meant to protect both the employee and the employer. Neither should come out of a contract feeling cheated. As a bondservant or eved as I already explained earlier, u go into servitude to pay off your debt and get back on your feet as quick as possible. While doing so, your employer is expected to take full responsibility of your care - free food, free accommodation, free clothing and giving u stipends on top. Wisdom should dictate a bondservant in such state shouldn't be thinking of marriage or having a family except he has a long term plan of becoming a permanent member of the master's household. If he doesn't see himself in the household for life, why would he want to start a family? who will take care of his family? Who will carry the responsibility of the bondservant's family? The employer? so what will he get in return for the extra unplanned burden. servitude in ancient Israel is just 6 years, the bondservant should work hard, pay off his debt and stop thinking about sex. Most ibo men enter apprenticeship for 10-15 years with their masters they don't get married during those years otherwise they leave. SOME NURSING SCHOOLS IN NIGERIA DO NOT ALLOW THEIR STUDENT TO BECOME PREGNANT DURING THEIR TRANING WHICH IS 3 YEARS, If u do, u will be expelled. Most trainers also have strict laws that prohibits female apprentice getting pregnant during their years of apprentice. Jacob worked for 14 good years for Laban before he's allowed to have his desired wife. So I dont understand how a bondservant who has no plan to live his life in such state would go and impregnant a woman knowing the consequence of such action. This whole western-centric concept of human rights and laws doesn't apply everywhere. God already stipulate that if the bondservant had a family before becoming a bondservant, they are not to be enslaved. Someone who doesnt have a wife b4 he was enslaved shouldn't be think of one. Instead , he should think of how to become independent at the end of his 7 years, then he will free to do whatever he desires including getting married and having children. It's just common sense Exodus 21 2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by SIRTee15: 8:22pm On Oct 13 |
jaephoenix: I already answered your question about non Israelite slaves. U are just too prejudiced to see it. I will repeat it again. God states that any foreigner who is resident to the land of Israel i.e embrace the tradition and culture AND also accept the God of Israelites as his LORD should be treated as a fellow Israelites. Leviticus 19 33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God. Thus the labour laws is applicable to all foreigners who are considered native to the Land of Israel. Eliezer, Abraham's servant was from Damascus but was circumcised as ordered by God because he was considered a member of Abraham's household. |
Re: God Ordains Slavery by SIRTee15: 8:26pm On Oct 13 |
adeniyi65: Guy keep your emotional blackmail to yourself. next time do your research b4 coming online otherwise u would be exposed as ignorant and pseudo-intellectual. Answer my question, do u now agree that flogging is an acceptable form of punishment for erring workers or servants historically? If u have problem with flogging, u can start by leading a campaign against it in Nigerian secondary schools. |
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