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American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections -- Trump's Presidency! - NOV. 5!! / American Politics For Republicans And Lovers Of Truth And Reason / President Bolsonaro Imported The Devilish American Politics To Brazil(photos) (2) (3) (4)
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by budaatum: 6:08pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: A few weeks ago we were discussing school meals, and some here who pay tax so the government has money to care said, "hell no"! Their argument was, "If you can't feed your children, don't have any. Society should not be bearing your responsibility for you!" What you think? |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 6:10pm On Oct 08 |
budaatum: @bolded You're right and I think we should have this discussion, but unfortunately it can't be now, I currently have my hands full. Later down the week or next week will be free for me. There are lot of things I need to explain. How about that? budaatum: Grasp what I'm saying first before you make statements like this. I never said such system exist, I'm saying such system should be created as regards policies and healthcare if the drug addict is pregnant in other to prevent harming the child in her womb. And this system should only apply to the case of a drug addicts being pregnant. If she isn't pregnant, the system doesn't or shouldn't not apply to her. The aim is to protect the human life in her womb. Get what I'm saying first before quoting me. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Obrigardo: 6:13pm On Oct 08 |
So we learned that the rapist felon trump had as much as 7 phone calls with killer putin after he left office. Also sent putin COVID testing kits while denying democrats governors PPE equipments and kits. Arrggghhhh! This traitorous old man is an enemy of the United States. People will file up to piss on his grave. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Maeve7: 6:19pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: You suggested it so please be so kind and explain to me how the government will prevent a pregnant woman from drinking or smoking or taking too many pain killers or the wrong ones? And what if a woman refuses to eat because she suffers from anorexia, will the government force feed her? Pray tell. So you want family members and friends to report each other to the authorities? The DDR comes to mind. 1 Like |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Obrigardo: 6:20pm On Oct 08 |
Hey basilico loco, 9% republicans say they are voting for VP Harris. She's at 93% favorability with Democrats while the Lying rapist felon trump is at 80% with the republican. The rapist felon is a goner even at 5% republican protest votes. The amazing thing here is that the 9% is gonna keep growing - Harris took the lead up from 5%. I keep on telling you to prepare for a disastrous rapist trump's loss and point you to the direction of the tranche of republicans endorsing VP Harris. But maga cultists like you will just brush it off. And i've been sounding the alarm since the midterms but the maga cult will never see the writing on the wall. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 6:23pm On Oct 08 |
budaatum: Such line of reasoning is BS. Should a poor child suffer of hunger if a meal can help? No. It will be very disheartening if pro-lifers hold this view. The government on the other hand should do the right thing irrespective of what some people might think or feel. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by budaatum: 6:30pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: You have earned respect from me. And I repeat, this is why you were asked to create a thread. Xavier5:The system you say should exist sounds like government control of a pregnant drug addict, which sounds pretty much like taking any rights a woman has from her just because she's pregnant and a drug addict. Which makes me ask, have you read or seen Handmade's Tale? No drug addict pregnancy there, but you might understand why I oppose your system. 1 Like |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Hyperchi(m): 6:32pm On Oct 08 |
IjeBos:So trump should go to ABC or CNN which is liberal propaganda station to grant interview, u know CNN had to sack don lemon becoz of disinformation. 2 Likes |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by budaatum: 6:36pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: That was the reasoning of some. The child suffering was not their concern. And the government is not, "on the other hand", because it is the people who elect the government that serves at the pleasure of what the people think or feel. And if the government irrespectives of them, they'd elect a new government that respectives of them at the next election. 2 Likes |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by LordReed(m): 6:41pm On Oct 08 |
bemeruca: What you do not seem to grasp is, it is all subjective that is why there are all these differences. If there was some inherent universal human value then animals would also value humans but there isn't. Your human perspective and your empathy for other humans makes you value them. That value is not universal. Heck even your own family members don't have the exact value for others as you. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by LordReed(m): 6:43pm On Oct 08 |
bemeruca: Yes I found it offensive and decided to stop. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 6:45pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7: What the government can do in this case is to step in and persuade the addict to seek medical and therapeutical help, on the government's expenses if she can't afford them, in other to keep the baby safe. If she agrees, good. But if she refuses, the government have to let her know that if the baby in her womb dies because of her reckless and addictive actions, then she will be legally punished. This will persuade her. Legal punishment have a way of making people act right. Now if she says she doesn't want the baby, she should be persuaded to give birth, after which the baby will be enrolled into the orphanage system in place hence freeing her from such responsibility. But if there's a relative willing to shoulder the responsibility over the baby, then the child would be handed over to them. If finances is the problem for the willing woman or relative, then the child support system comes in. Yes, as I earlier said, the process is physically, mentally, emotionally and financially straining, but as I said, a human life is worth such strain. So you want family members and friends to report each other to the authorities? The DDR comes to mind. No. But if the addict is pregnant, family and friends should persuade her to seek medical and therapeutical help, but if refuses, then the family or friends should involve the government which will take the above action. And I will always emphasis that temporal pro-choice should be allowed until the system is effectively in place. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 6:50pm On Oct 08 |
budaatum: And I'm glad they were the minority. And the government is not, "on the other hand", because it is the people who elect the government that serves at the pleasure of what the people think or feel. And if the government irrespectives of them, they'd elect a new government that respectives of them at the next election. Unfortunately the government have taken decisions and actions lots of the people don't agree with, so why should this be the exception. And let get this clear, it's impossible for the majority to be against such humane act by the government. Only few will, and this few, in a democratic society, can't influence or stand as a threat to the government... except the government itself doesn't care about the life of children or the fetus. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Maeve7: 6:56pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: The government should persuade an addict to stop what addicts, by definition, and even with professional help, can’t stop doing. Alcoholics have a 70% relapse rate, the small number of those who actually stop until they start again . So in other words, you want to punish sick people for being sick. And what if family members don’t report? Will they also be persecuted for being complicit? Where is the limit to policing female bodies and lives? Do a woman’s fundamental liberties and rights end with pregnancy? What about anorexic women? Will they be fed by force? And have you ever visited an orphanage? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 6:59pm On Oct 08 |
budaatum: Creating a thread is not really my thing, I would love to discuss it here. But if such is not possible, then I think there's an alternative. I'm currently writing a fictional book in which the issue of intrinsic human value will be discussed. I will be releasing the story on Nairaland, and when I do, I will tag you and other interested people to hop in. How about this? The system you say should exist sounds like government control of a pregnant drug addict, which sounds pretty much like taking any rights a woman has from her just because she's pregnant and a drug addict. I have explain what the government can do to address the issue to Maeve7 above. You see it as taking the right from an drug addictive pregnant woman, I see it as taking measures to protect a human life. Further explanation on how the government can handle the issue to ensure the woman isn't forced to be a mother against her will while simultaneously protecting the life of the baby has been addressed in my response to Maeve7 above. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Maeve7: 7:02pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: By the way, once you force a woman to give birth, she becomes a mother. She might not take care of the baby in case of adoption but she is still the biological mother. Just for the sake of clarity. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:11pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7: It's not punishing a sick person for being sick, it's taking measures to protect an innocent human life. Aside that, the "sick people" should not get pregnant in the first place. This is where subsidizing birth control to ensure their affordability, accessibility and availability comes in. With this, unwanted pregnancies drop significantly. And secondly, as I said, if she refuses to seek medical and therapeutical help for the sake of the child. Then the government should make it known that if the baby dies because of her refusal to seek help, then she will be punished legally. Such a woman being so selfish hence putting the life of an innocent baby at risk is highly inhumane. If you don't want to do it for yourself, then do it for the baby. The fear of being punished legally if anything happens to the baby because of her, will cause her to take seek the help. So either way, she would seek the help. Now if she says she doesn't want the baby, she should be persuaded to give birth, after which the baby will be enrolled into the orphanage system in place hence freeing her from such responsibility. But if there's a relative willing to shoulder the responsibility over the baby, then the child would be handed over to them. If finances is the problem for the willing woman or relative, then the child support system comes in. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by IjeBos(m): 7:13pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: Creating a thread is not your thing. But people should respond to the thread you will create to sell your book to drive traffic? Did I get it right? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:13pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7: The aim of abortion is for the woman not to be forced to accept responsibility over a child. With the system I mentioned, she wouldn't. That's what I mean by mother. I'm not talking about biological motherhood, but functional motherhood. I hope that's been clarified. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by budaatum: 7:16pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: And I'm trying to make you understand that government is not some institution that operates "irrespective" of the people who vote for governments, and in a society that hails personal responsibility and abhors socialism, you'd have a tough job selling such an idea just as there's opposition for feeding already born children, and that's besides the fact that you would be impinging on the freedom and rights of the pregnant woman whom the foetus is inside.
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:17pm On Oct 08 |
IjeBos: Creating a thread for discuss is not actually my thing. Why? Because, I won't be active to maintain it. But in the case of my book/ story, economic reasons will make me, against my wish, to do it. I don't know if you get it? So that's why I always prefer to discuss on already created threads or one created by the person I'm debating or discussing with. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Maeve7: 7:18pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: You are punishing a person for being sick to save a fetus that couldn’t live outside the person’s body. I agree with the point about birth control but it still happens. No, an addict won’t necessarily seek help. That’s the nature of addiction. They will hide, cheat, use plenty of avoidance strategies and even accept punishment. One more time, have you ever been to an orphanage? And do you really think that it is that easy to give up your child for adoption even if you are not ready to be a mother? Also, if a fetus is diagnosed with trisomy 13 or 18 or 21, should the baby be born? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:19pm On Oct 08 |
budaatum: And that's why I'm saying those opposers are always in the minority. The majority do support. I'm yet to see a democratic nation where majority oppose children and infant welfare. So the concern you're trying to raise is highly unlikely. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Maeve7: 7:20pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: The aim of abortion is for the woman not to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term in the first place. You don’t have to be a woman to understand it or maybe you do? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by budaatum: 7:27pm On Oct 08 |
Xavier5: "Highly unlikely", except that it already happens that some oppose feeding school children! Or are born school children not of greater value and more needing of care than a foetus? Even in socialist UK, there's a Two Child limit to benefit payments, how much less in uber capitalist USA.
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Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Maeve7: 7:30pm On Oct 08 |
budaatum: Xavier5 probably thinks that the government has an unlimited amount of money and resources to go around. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:34pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7: So because it can't live outside the woman's body mean we should just snap its neck? Is it the fault of the baby that it found itself in such condition? Why should he or she be punished. The fetus is a human life... a living human, and as such should be protected. That's the baseline. I agree with the point about birth control but it still happens. Yes, they might cheat the system, but if the baby dies because of their refusal to the right thing, then the law comes for them. It takes an inhumane and selfish person to make such decision. The fear of the law will make them act in line. As as for those that will be too inhumane and selfish to the point that they are willing to put the baby's ife in danger and serve punishment. Then good luck to them. Such irritates and disgusts me 😠😠😠 But the thing is, majority will act in line for fear of punishment. One more time, have you ever been to an orphanage? And do you really think that it is that easy to give up your child for adoption even if you are not ready to be a mother? Yes, I do and I donate regularly to them. I'm not a sit and watch pro-life. I'm an action one. And as I earlier stated, I'm working on creating a humanitarian organization that will be committed to the system mentioned. Also, if a fetus is diagnosed with trisomy 13 or 18 or 21, should the baby be born? This means you've not been read my write-ups... cos I made it clear that one of the critical cases in which abortion should be allowed is severe deformity of the fetus in other to prevent subjecting the child to severe physical, emotional and mental pain, except the parents says otherwise. And as I will always say, temporal pro-choice should be allowed until the system is effectively in place. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by budaatum: 7:36pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7: And he seems to think government can act irrespective of those who elect the government and pay tax so government has money to spend. |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:39pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7: It seems you don't read my response to you. I make it clear that this isn't only the responsibility of the government, but also that of the society... that is willing individuals and organizations. How many individuals and organizations will be willing to be part of it? Only one way to find out. And let's not forget the fact that this only occurs in few cases since due to birth controls being subsidized and made available, affordable and accessible, unwanted pregnancies will significantly drop. This is not an overnight thing, this is why I made it clear that lots of time, efforts and resources will be spent but nevertheless its possible. That's why I always state that temporal pro-choice should be allowed until the system is effectively established. I don't know which part of that you're finding difficult to grasp. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Hyperchi(m): 7:44pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7:After using it on illegal, what do u expect |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:45pm On Oct 08 |
budaatum: The question is, are the opposers in the majority? That's all I'm asking. Regarding the child support and orphanage, I've made it clear countless times that this isn't only the responsibility of the government, but also that of the society... that is willing individuals and organizations. And I've dedicated myself to be part of the willing individuals. How many individuals and organizations will be willing to be part of it? Only one way to find out. And we should also not forget that this would only occur in few cases if such system is in place thanks to the fact that birth controls would be subsidized and made available, affordable and accessible, unwanted pregnancies will significantly drop. #Xavier |
Re: American Politics Thread - 2024 Elections — Biden’s Presidency! by Xavier5(m): 7:49pm On Oct 08 |
Maeve7: ... Because she doesn't want to exercise responsibility over that child. Don't forget that. It seems to me you just want to ignore that basic fact. The system prevents her from having to exercise such responsibility. Aside that, if she doesn't want it, why not utilise birth controls? At least that gives her a very high chance of not getting pregnant. #Xavier |
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