TenQ:

It seems you disagree with this claim of the universe being about 13.8 billion years old, therefore

Interestingly, the argument for such a claim makes sense to me from my little knowledge.

Can you please give me your own sources estimate and why!

Your source alone is evidence. It claims there was a big bang 13.8million years ago, and the universe as is known is suggested to have began. Just that alone shows something must have existed a priori to go bang, since bangs don't happen out of nothing.

That's where some now insert their imaginary gods instead of accepting they don't know and can not possibly know, and is like claiming there's a billion naira in your bank account because you don't know how much you have.

P.s. You are expecting some religious sort of knowledge that you must believe, so I know you can't possibly get your head around actually using it to reason.

TenQ:

Half knowledge destroys
Who told you that a baby is sinful?

Mat 18:3:
"And said, Truly I say to you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Mat 19:14:
"But Jesus said, Allow the little children to come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of Heaven."


Since you have come out as a devils advocate, you might try to help the Muslims with the hadith


Prophet Mohammad said:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

Question:
1. We can understand why the woman who buried her child will go to Hell, can you explain why the baby will also go to Hell?
2. According to you Muslims, every child was born a Muslim. Can you then explain why this "sinless" Muslim child becomes a candidate of hell fire?



It's just two questions.

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Romans 3:23
for all(including babies and adults) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Job 14:4,
“Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean? No one can!”

Psalm 51:5,
“Look! I was born guilty of error (sin), And my mother conceived me in sin.”

I think the time you waste on Nairaland attacking Muslim is better spent reading this your Bible(that you have so poor a knowledge)

TenQ:

Google is your friend except you are adverse to knowing

Its a s scientific consensus, as in, what is agreed on, and if you dig further into science you'd find its when "the universe as we know it" began. Science recognises that something must have existed before then for anything to go bang, since bangs don't just occur out of nothing.

Note too that the Big Bang Theory is not the only theory. Choosing one to believe is like choosing a god and disregarding all others.

budaatum:


Typical believer of you to want to judge beliefs instead of judging understanding!

In your own Bible, it is written that humans should not live by bread alone, yet here you are asking me to live by one book. And even your own one book, you seem to fail to understand!

Would your God create you, TenQ, in God's own image to be fruitful and rule and and subdue and multiply and eat every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it, then rest on 5he sixth day after seeing all it created was good, and them wake up on the eight day after resting on the seventh to create you from mud to work naked in a tiny garden and not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

How are you supposed to 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground' if you do not nourish yourself with fruits of knowledge?

Do you think those who came to rule and subdue you and teach you to believe you descended from Adam did not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge before they came to enslave you?

My standard is your ability to use your own mind to reason, but I'm aware how powerful that which is called Satan is.

Except you are willing to state clearly that you have no objective standard by which you form your opinion, my question was easy

What is YOUR own standard by which I can measure your beliefs against it?

Do you think that whatever you think is a standard I should judge your beliefs by!?

budaatum:


Your source alone is evidence. It claims there was a big bang 13.8million years ago, and the universe as is known is suggested to have began. Just that alone shows something must have existed a priori to go bang, since bangs don't happen out of nothing.

That's where some now insert their imaginary gods instead of accepting they don't know and can not possibly know, and is like claiming there's a billion naira in your bank account because you don't know how much you have.

P.s. You are expecting some religious sort of knowledge that you must believe, so I know you can't possibly get your head around actually using it to reason.

Don't change the topic:
You just asserted that the 13.8 billion years ago of the universe is a fiction you can't believe.

So, tell me,
What is your own estimate and by which source do you arrive at it.

I agree ithe the 13.8billion years estimate according to science and the argument make good sense to me.

What is your estimate age of the universe and by what authority do you arrive at the number

jaephoenix:

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Romans 3:23
for all(including babies and adults) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Job 14:4,
“Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean? No one can!”

Psalm 51:5,
“Look! I was born guilty of error (sin), And my mother conceived me in sin.”

I think the time you waste on Nairaland attackng Muslim is better spent reading this your Bible(that you have so poor a knowledge)

Not one of these scripture says babies are going to hell except like satan you want to read something else into it.

BUT, the issue is about the Hadith I quoted and the objections of the Muslims. Open a new thread if your interest is not to discuss this hadith

Here is the hadith again.


Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators



Does this hadith say that these murdered babies with their mothers are going to hell?

It is a YES or NO answer!

budaatum:


Its a s scientific consensus, as in, what is agreed on, and if you dig further into science you'd find its when "the universe as we know it" began. Science recognises that something must have existed before then for anything to go bang, since bangs don't just occur out of nothing.

Note too that the Big Bang Theory is not the only theory. Choosing one to believe is like choosing a god and disregarding all others.

You will not that I didn't once speak about the Big Bang. Whatever theory you adopted, the maximum age of our universe is still 13.8billion years old. SINGULARITY is not a thing! It isn't matter. It's just a point (no size) where no mathematical, physical or chemical laws are defined.

Note that I didn't just go with my own thinking, I went with the scientific consensus as my authority for my belief.


You think the 13.8billion years is a fiction or just a mere scientific consensus, therefore you must have a better answer.


Mr Buda
What is the likely age of the universe?
What is your source of authority?
Why do you adopt this position?


Unfortunately, your understanding of the basis of the 13.8billion years is abysmal. Otherwise, you will understand that time, mass, energy and the laws of physics and chemistry did NOT exist before this 13.8billion years .

But this is not even the point, just answer my questions

Here is a Sahih Hadith that Muslims should help us explain as I don't understand.

Prophet Mohammad said:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

Question:
1. We can understand why the woman who buried her child will go to Hell, can you explain why the baby will also go to Hell?
2. According to you Muslims, every child was born a Muslim. Can you then explain why this "sinless" Muslim child becomes a candidate of hell fire?

If an innocent baby can go to hell in Islam, what hope do Muslims have of al-janna?



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If we served the same God, why must a child convert to Islam from his tribe (Jew)


Sahih al-Bukhari 1356
Narrated Anas:
A young Jewish boy used to serve the Prophet (ﷺ) and he became sick. So the Prophet (ﷺ) went to visit him. He sat near his head and asked him to embrace Islam. The boy looked at his father, who was sitting there; the latter told him to obey Abul-Qasim and the boy embraced Islam. The Prophet (ﷺ) came out saying: "Praises be to Allah Who saved the boy from the Hell-fire."

Islam is a scam!

ConDawah:

All Muslims are going to hell anyways (Surah 19 verses 71-72)

Go back and read from verse 66 read down to the verse 72 painstakingly. You will understand the people in question.

TenQ:
If we served the same God, why must a child convert to Islam from his tribe (Jew)


Sahih al-Bukhari 1356
Narrated Anas:
A young Jewish boy used to serve the Prophet (ﷺ) and he became sick. So the Prophet (ﷺ) went to visit him. He sat near his head and asked him to embrace Islam. The boy looked at his father, who was sitting there; the latter told him to obey Abul-Qasim and the boy embraced Islam. The Prophet (ﷺ) came out saying: "Praises be to Allah Who saved the boy from the Hell-fire."

Islam is a scam!

There are so many things you don't know or you deliberately turned against.

TenQ:
Here is a Sahih Hadith that Muslims should help us explain as I don't understand.

Prophet Mohammad said:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

Question:
1. We can understand why the woman who buried her child will go to Hell, can you explain why the baby will also go to Hell?
2. According to you Muslims, every child was born a Muslim. Can you then explain why this "sinless" Muslim child becomes a candidate of hell fire?

If an innocent baby can go to hell in Islam, what hope do Muslims have of al-janna?



All my Friends on Nairaland:
LegalWolf Vanessa7 AntiChristian Empiree, Rash4ductluv, BabaHeekmat, aekymbahd, motayoayinde, drlateef, Thatfairguy1, MrCodeSolo , Hisbah21, atsleepboy1 , Lordmoh , OBALOLA55, x123xlolls , Lukuluku69 , mhmsadyq, Ibsaq , Herkeym001 , Sulasa07 , hakeemhakeem , abduljabbar4 ,olaalekan ,Friend22 , uthlaw , Exc2000 , AbuTwins ,Akhirastriver ,Akinbahm , Sino , KayB , youngdroly , jaggabban , ukeleh , Realismailakabir , Bami8064 Greatgr , Gaskiyamagana , compton11, Alfarouq , MrCodeSolo Satmaniac saintHot, drlateef, Donkmore Akinbahm , IMEI , FATHAT , talk2hb1 , iamrealdeji , Encyclopedia1 , SWATMan rolams aheeqilmaktoom , Bintdawood , Flanker , Raheeqilmaktoom , rolams ,honesttalk21 , Negroid001 , Nvestor02 , Coolsat, iamrealdeji madridguy Almunjid MohammadSAW , STRI1 Explore2xmore satmaniac Ohyoudidnt , 4islam ThatFairGuy1 BroOptimist. Bakrabas. Musa95 Ibrahimlagosian Explore2xmore DuaWorrior
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Sunan Abi 2521

Narrated Hasana’ daughter of Mu‘awiyah: She reported on the authority of her paternal uncle: I asked the Prophet pbuh: Who are in Paradise? He replied: Prophets are in Paradise, martyrs are in Paradise, infants are in Paradise and children buried alive are in Paradise.

Quran 17:23
And do not kill your offspring for fear of poverty. We sustain them as well as you. Verily killing them is a capital sin.

Quran 81:8-9
And when the girl [who was] buried alive is asked, For what sin she was killed?


1. The baby will not be in hell. Bare in mind that Allah is the one who absolutely says who goes to hell or paradise.

Why are you so anxious about the future without fulfilling your needs to righteousness in the present?


2. The sinless infant will not go to hell though your belief says every new born child is born with an inherited sin he knows nothing about.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Have you finished shedding yourself of the sin you were born into the world with?
I trust you have even acquired many more.

rolams:



There so many things you don't know or you deliberately turned against.

Of course, I don't know all things and this is why I ask questions which you Muslims refuse to supply the answer.

Like:
1. Why is Jesus the only Human being who is a co-creator of life with Allah?
2. Why was Jesus born without a human father as I don't know what this has to do with being a prophet?
3. If Jesus wasn't crucified, who was the one crucified
4. It is understandable if Allah Deceived both the Jews and the Romans. Why did Allah Deceived Mary the mother of Jesus and the Apostles of Jesus?




Can you give me two examples of things you think I don't know about Islam?

And
Why is the buried baby girl going to hell fire?

rolams:


Go back and read from verse 66 read down to the verse 72 painstakingly. You will understand the people in question.

The verse is simple and direct. It is a guarantee from Allah that ALL Muslims will enter Hell Fire: later Allah will remove you Muslims and leave the evildoers in hell.


Quran 19:71
There is not one of you who will not go down to it (the Fire), that is a fixed Decree of your Lord

Meaning that ALL Muslims will at least first be in Hell Fire.

Quran 19:72
Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees

After ALL you Muslims enter the Fire, THEN Allah will THEREAFTER remove the good Muslims and leave others in the Fire

1. Why do you think you will first have to go into hell fire before you are freed by Allah?
2. How long do you think you will be in the fire before Allah comes to free you: 1000 years!?

TenQ:


The verse is simple and direct. It is a guarantee from Allah that ALL Muslims will enter Hell Fire: later Allah will remove you Muslims and leave the evildoers in hell.


Quran 19:71
There is not one of you who will not go down to it (the Fire), that is a fixed Decree of your Lord

Meaning that ALL Muslims will at least first be in Hell Fire.

Quran 19:72
Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees

After ALL you Muslims enter the Fire, THEN Allah will THEREAFTER remove the good Muslims and leave others in the Fire

1. Why do you think you will first have to go into hell fire before you are freed by Allah?
2. How long do you think you will be in the fire before Allah comes to free you: 1000 years!?

From your own meaning right?

Why can't you quote the verses from verse 66 to verse 72. Ok. Let me help you.

19:66
Sahih International
And the disbeliever says, "When I have died, am I going to be brought forth alive?"


19:67
Sahih International
Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

19:68
Sahih International
So by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees.

19:69
Sahih International
Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.

19:70
Sahih International
Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.

19:71
Sahih International
And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed

19:72
Sahih International
Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.



Are those men who believed when they are dead won't be brought to live for judgement Muslims?

See the analysis of AI

AI Overview
In the Quran, Surah Maryam (Chapter 19), verses 66 to 72 discuss the theme of human disbelief in the afterlife, particularly the question of resurrection after death, where the disbeliever doubts if they will be brought back to life after dying, while the overall message is that everyone will face judgement and the righteous will be saved while the wrongdoers will be left in Hellfire; this theme is central to this passage and is a key point of discussion in Islamic theology.

Key points about verses 19:66-72:

Question of resurrection:
Verse 66 directly addresses the disbelief of man who asks, "When I am dead, will I be brought back to life again?".

Reminder of creation:
Verse 67 counters this doubt by reminding humans that God created them from nothing, emphasizing His power to resurrect them.

Gathering in Hell:
Verses 68-70 describe how all disbelievers will be gathered around Hell, with the worst offenders from each group being singled out.

Inevitability of facing Hell:
Verse 71 states that "there is none of you but will come to it" meaning everyone will pass through Hell, though the righteous will not be harmed.

Salvation of the righteous:
Verse 72 concludes by stating that God will save the pious and leave the wrongdoers in Hell.

honesttalk21:


Sunan Abi 2521

Narrated Hasana’ daughter of Mu‘awiyah: She reported on the authority of her paternal uncle: I asked the Prophet pbuh: Who are in Paradise? He replied: Prophets are in Paradise, martyrs are in Paradise, infants are in Paradise and children buried alive are in Paradise.

Is it then untrue that
According to Sunan Abi Dawud 4717 the exception seems to be babies who are buried by their mothers.
So, we can say that all Muslim babies should go to paradise (which is another UNTRUE statement according to your prophet) EXCEPT those who were buried alive.

honesttalk21:

Quran 17:23
And do not kill your offspring for fear of poverty. We sustain them as well as you. Verily killing them is a capital sin.

We can understand that all murderers are committing capital sins. The question is are the murdered babies also committing capital sins by being killed by their mothers?

honesttalk21:

Quran 81:8-9
And when the girl [who was] buried alive is asked, For what sin she was killed?

1. The baby will not be in hell. Bare in mind that Allah is the one who absolutely says who goes to hell or paradise.

Why are you so anxious about the future without fulfilling your needs to righteousness in the present?

Your prophet disagree with you
Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

The baby and the mother who murdered her would enter Hell fire.

honesttalk21:

2. The sinless infant will not go to hell though your belief says every new born child is born with an inherited sin he knows nothing about.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Have you finished shedding yourself of the sin you were born into the world with?
I trust you have even acquired many more.

What the Bible teaches is that we inherited a NATURE of SIN. Meaning that just like a pig inherited a NATURE of filth, through Adam, we inherited a NATURE to commit sin. Have you seen where humans have to be taught to sin? Isn't it a second nature to us all? Don't we have to resist sin? Do you think it is easy for the best of us to resist committing sins?

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.
1. Sin entered into this world through Adam
2. Because of this son, all living beings on earth dies
3. All men commit sin:
I challenge you to find me a man who doesn't commit sin?


Asides this:
Babies in Islam cannot be guaranteed paradise according to Mohammed. Don't you believe in the DESTINY of Allah again?

Sahih Muslim 2662 c
'A'isha, the mother of the believers, said that Allah's Messenger was called to lead the funeral prayer of a child of the Ansar. I said:
Allah's Messenger, there is happiness for this child who is a bird from the birds of Paradise for it committed no sin nor has he reached the age when one can commit sin. He said: 'A'isha, per adventure, it may be otherwise, because God created for Paradise those who are fit for it while they were yet in their father's loins and created for Hell those who are to go to Hell. He created them for Hell while they were yet in their father's loins.


Is this Hadith a Fraud?

I have promised not to reply you again.

rolams:


From your own meaning right?

Why can't you quote the verses from verse 66 to verse 72. Ok. Let me help you.

19:66
Sahih International
And the disbeliever says, "When I have died, am I going to be brought forth alive?"


19:67
Sahih International
Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

19:68
Sahih International
So by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees.

19:69
Sahih International
Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.

19:70
Sahih International
Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.

19:71
Sahih International
And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed

19:72
Sahih International
Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.



Are those men who believed when they are dead won't be brought to live for judgement Muslims?

See the analysis of AI

AI Overview
In the Quran, Surah Maryam (Chapter 19), verses 66 to 72 discuss the theme of human disbelief in the afterlife, particularly the question of resurrection after death, where the disbeliever doubts if they will be brought back to life after dying, while the overall message is that everyone will face judgement and the righteous will be saved while the wrongdoers will be left in Hellfire; this theme is central to this passage and is a key point of discussion in Islamic theology.
Key points about verses 19:66-72:
Question of resurrection:
Verse 66 directly addresses the disbelief of man who asks, "When I am dead, will I be brought back to life again?".
Reminder of creation:
Verse 67 counters this doubt by reminding humans that God created them from nothing, emphasizing His power to resurrect them.
Gathering in Hell:
Verses 68-70 describe how all disbelievers will be gathered around Hell, with the worst offenders from each group being singled out.
Inevitability of facing Hell:
Verse 71 states that "there is none of you but will come to it" meaning everyone will pass through Hell, though the righteous will not be harmed.
Salvation of the righteous:
Verse 72 concludes by stating that God will save the pious and leave the wrongdoers in Hell.

Why do you Muslims choose to follow obvious lies

Verse 71 is clear:
Is it UNTRUE that All Muslims and all evildoers would be in the fire

Is it TRUE that Verse 71 says that Muslims wouldn't be harmed by the fire? Of course not!

Here is a Tafsir by Ibn Abbas on verse 71

Tafsir Qur'an 19.71 Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(There is not one of you but shall approach it) there is not a single one of you, to the exclusion of prophets and messengers, save that he will enter it, i.e. hell. (That is a fixed ordinance of your Lord) it is a decree that must necessarily take place.

According to your prophet, the only exclusion are the prophets and messengers of Allah.


Can you explain this phrase in verse 71:
It is a fixed Decree of your Lord
Is this not speaking of the slave of Allah?

So, my questions still persist
1. Why do you think you will first have to go into hell fire before you are freed by Allah?
2. How long do you think you will be in the fire before Allah comes to free you: 1000 years!?

rolams:
I have promised not to reply you again.

Then you will knowingly go to hell fire!


I am a Warner to you sir!

When you adopt the Truth, the Truth will set you Free!

TenQ:
You will not[e] that I didn't once speak about the Big Bang.

The fact that you mentioned the age of the earth to be 13.7 billion years old is you speaking about the big bang, since that is the proposed date for it.

Here is some learning for you.

What existed before the Big Bang?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220105-what-existed-before-the-big-bang

Note the bit where it says "speculative physics". As in, they don't know but think that is what might have existed and happened. No scientist would tell you they believe it to be true since they have no evidence for it.

TenQ:
Here is a Sahih Hadith that Muslims should help us explain as I don't understand.

Prophet Mohammad said:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

Question:
1. We can understand why the woman who buried her child will go to Hell, can you explain why the baby will also go to Hell?
2. According to you Muslims, every child was born a Muslim. Can you then explain why this "sinless" Muslim child becomes a candidate of hell fire?

If an innocent baby can go to hell in Islam, what hope do Muslims have of al-janna?



All my Friends on Nairaland:
LegalWolf Vanessa7 AntiChristian Empiree, Rash4ductluv, BabaHeekmat, aekymbahd, motayoayinde, drlateef, Thatfairguy1, MrCodeSolo , Hisbah21, atsleepboy1 , Lordmoh , OBALOLA55, x123xlolls , Lukuluku69 , mhmsadyq, Ibsaq , Herkeym001 , Sulasa07 , hakeemhakeem , abduljabbar4 ,olaalekan ,Friend22 , uthlaw , Exc2000 , AbuTwins ,Akhirastriver ,Akinbahm , Sino , KayB , youngdroly , jaggabban , ukeleh , Realismailakabir , Bami8064 Greatgr , Gaskiyamagana , compton11, Alfarouq , MrCodeSolo Satmaniac saintHot, drlateef, Donkmore Akinbahm , IMEI , FATHAT , talk2hb1 , iamrealdeji , Encyclopedia1 , SWATMan rolams aheeqilmaktoom , Bintdawood , Flanker , Raheeqilmaktoom , rolams ,honesttalk21 , Negroid001 , Nvestor02 , Coolsat, iamrealdeji madridguy Almunjid MohammadSAW , STRI1 Explore2xmore satmaniac Ohyoudidnt , 4islam ThatFairGuy1 BroOptimist. Bakrabas. Musa95 Ibrahimlagosian Explore2xmore DuaWorrior
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A very valid question. I hope antichristian was able to give a sensible answer this time?

TenQ:
What you are saying is that either
The scholars of Sunnah.com don't understand Islam nor Arabic
or
you and your Tafsir is fabricating lies


Mr Antichristian,
Do you know that you can comfortably represent satan in a lying competition!?

Let me reiterate the offending verse:

"الْوَائِدَةُ وَالْمَوْءُودَةُ فِي النَّارِ."

Let me show you the translation (as attached) in the pix below .

How come
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell.

Is consistent with
"The woman who buries her child alive and the buried child are in the Fire."

Opuro jatijati ni AntiChristian, he has emulated Al-Makireena, the best of the deceivers!

budaatum:


The fact that you mentioned the age of the earth to be 13.7 billion years old is you speaking about the big bang, since that is the proposed date for it.

Here is some learning for you.

What existed before the Big Bang?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220105-what-existed-before-the-big-bang

Note the bit where it says "speculative physics". As in, they don't know but think that is what might have existed and happened. No scientist would tell you they believe it to be true since they have no evidence for it.

Point of correction:
I never said that the earth was 13.8billion years old. I said the universe is 13.8billion years old.

The point I am making is this:
You made your point that you don't believe the 13.8billion year age of the universe as "speculated" by scientists
Thus I ask
1. What is your belief about the age of the universe?
2. What is your source of authority.

Without an authority, how can we know that your beliefs aren't based on ramblings of personal feelings?

I other words, you have given no iota of reasons for anyone to trust your beliefs either with respect to God, Religion or even Science. Anyone can have any opinion about anything and it's just another random opinion with no value!

advocatejare:

A very valid question. I hope antichristian was able to give a sensible answer this time?

He didn't o!
He tried to tell a lie that the phrase
"the girl who is buried alive"
actually mean
"the woman who buried the girl"

He had fled since I broke down the Arabic script to him (assuming his English is faulty)

advocatejare:

Opuro jatijati ni AntiChristian, he has emulated Al-Makireena, the best of the deceivers!

Jesus described the situation perfectly

John 3:19:
"And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil."

This person coming in his own name is obviously Mohammed
John 5:43:
"I am come in my Father's name, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive."

By the fruit of lies of Muslims, we know the spirit who controls their existence. This is how they would deceive themselves into hell fire.

TenQ:

Not one of these scripture says babies are going to hell except like satan you want to read something else into it.

BUT, the issue is about the Hadith I quoted and the objections of the Muslims. Open a new thread if your interest is not to discuss this hadith

Here is the hadith again.


Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators



Does this hadith say that these murdered babies with their mothers are going to hell?

It is a YES or NO answer!

What is the wages of sin?
Where do sinners go to?

TenQ:

Is it then untrue that
According to Sunan Abi Dawud 4717 the exception seems to be babies who are buried by their mothers.
So, we can say that all Muslim babies should go to paradise (which is another UNTRUE statement according to your prophet) EXCEPT those who were buried alive.


We can understand that all murderers are committing capital sins. The question is are the murdered babies also committing capital sins by being killed by their mothers?



Your prophet disagree with you
Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

The baby and the mother who murdered her would enter Hell fire.




What the Bible teaches is that we inherited a NATURE of SIN. Meaning that just like a pig inherited a NATURE of filth, through Adam, we inherited a NATURE to commit sin. Have you seen where humans have to be taught to sin? Isn't it a second nature to us all? Don't we have to resist sin? Do you think it is easy for the best of us to resist committing sins?

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.
1. Sin entered into this world through Adam
2. Because of this son, all living beings on earth dies
3. All men commit sin:
I challenge you to find me a man who doesn't commit sin?


Asides this:
Babies in Islam cannot be guaranteed paradise according to Mohammed. Don't you believe in the DESTINY of Allah again?

Sahih Muslim 2662 c
'A'isha, the mother of the believers, said that Allah's Messenger was called to lead the funeral prayer of a child of the Ansar. I said:
Allah's Messenger, there is happiness for this child who is a bird from the birds of Paradise for it committed no sin nor has he reached the age when one can commit sin. He said: 'A'isha, per adventure, it may be otherwise, because God created for Paradise those who are fit for it while they were yet in their father's loins and created for Hell those who are to go to Hell. He created them for Hell while they were yet in their father's loins.


Is this Hadith a Fraud?

I call your attention to Sunan Abi Dawood 2521 for you to comprehend Sunan Abi Dawood 4717 properly.
Do you accept one and reject the other?

In your usual confused desperation you go on to bring another hadith from Muslim? For what? Supporting your misunderstanding?

Aisha, the wife of Prophet Muhammad, expressed her sorrow at the funeral of a child from the Ansar, who had not committed any sins. The Prophet Muhammad emphasized Allah's divine wisdom in determining the ultimate fate of individuals, highlighting the concept of divine predestination (Qadr) in Islam. This narration emphasizes the importance of trusting in Allah's decree and wisdom, even in challenging situations, and the belief in divine justice, as Allah's decisions are rooted in His infinite knowledge and perfect justice.

You are overtly overbearing and want to lay claim to knowledge beyond you? Is this under the inspiration of Satan? Why not live God to be the ultimate and strive to be of those he is pleased with and enjoy his favour.

Does inheriting the Sin of an ancient ancestor you nor your great grand parents ever new in person appear to be just to you? Explain to yourself how and be sure you are so free of it you don't pass it on to your children born and unborn even if you get off it.

The wages of sin is death!
People who commit sin go to the lake of fire!
Babies don't commit sin: for theirs is the kingdom of God.

jaephoenix:

What is the wages of sin?
Where do sinners go to?

I believe I have told you that if you want to open a new thread, feel free. The issue here is the hadith at stake.

Here is the hadith again.


Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators



Does this hadith say that these murdered babies with their mothers are going to hell?

It is a YES or NO answer!

honesttalk21:


I call your attention to Sunan Abi Dawood 2521 for you to comprehend Sunan Abi Dawood 4717 properly.
Do you accept one and reject the other?

In your usual confused desperation you go on to bring another hadith from Muslim? For what? Supporting your misunderstanding?

Aisha, the wife of Prophet Muhammad, expressed her sorrow at the funeral of a child from the Ansar, who had not committed any sins. The Prophet Muhammad emphasized Allah's divine wisdom in determining the ultimate fate of individuals, highlighting the concept of divine predestination (Qadr) in Islam. This narration emphasizes the importance of trusting in Allah's decree and wisdom, even in challenging situations, and the belief in divine justice, as Allah's decisions are rooted in His infinite knowledge and perfect justice.

You are overtly overbearing and want to lay claim to knowledge beyond you? Is this under the inspiration of Satan? Why not live God to be the ultimate and strive to be of those he is pleased with and enjoy his favour.

I quoted Muslim to show you that Babies in Islam can go to hell. Thus, it cannot be strange that Allah decree that murdered babies shall also be in hell

BTW:
Can you translate accurately for me the phrase:
"الْوَائِدَةُ وَالْمَوْءُودَةُ فِي النَّارِ."


Is it UNTRUE that Destiny in Islam shows that we cannot escape what is written for us good or bad?

honesttalk21:

Does inheriting the Sin of an ancient ancestor you nor your great grand parents ever new in person appear to be just to you? Explain to yourself how and be sure you are so free of it you don't pass it on to your children born and unborn even if you get off it.

I challenge you to show me any verse in the bible that says we inherit the sins of our ancestors!


A person can inherit the consequences of the sins of his ancestors BUT not the sin.
Just to prove it:
-According to Islam, every descendant of Adam is on Earth and not Paradise because of the sin of Adam.
-A woman who commit an unsuccessful abortion may cause grivious damage to her unborn child.
-A child whose father was executed for being an armed robber may grow up fatherless and with a negative stigma as long as he lives.

Are these true even in Islam?

The punishment for sin is eternity in hell even though consequences may progress along the generations unborn.

TenQ:

He didn't o!
He tried to tell a lie that the phrase
"the girl who is buried alive"
actually mean
"the woman who buried the girl"

He had fled since I broke down the Arabic script to him (assuming his English is faulty)

You were the one who fled when he broke it down to you, opuro jatijati

TenQ, AntiChristian Satan’s firstborn child is lying here again

Mr advocatejare
I believe the above was for Antichristian!

LOL!
He indeed fled the scene!
Not all lies are defendable!

According to the Bible no child is innocent in fact they are God's enemies at birth {Psalms 51:5; Romans 3:23} that's why they will go to hell (grave) just like all other sinners. Ecclesiastes 9:10

The only escape for such babies is the faith of those who caused their birth because if a child is born by a believer such a child will be counted as Holy {1Corinthians 7:14} the child of a believer doesn't automatically becomes holy rather its due to the faith of the parent.

How so?

Because God commanded His worshipers to inculcate His laws in the hearts of their children {Ephesians 6:4 compare to Deuteronomy 6:6-7} that's why Jesus blessed the little children who joined their parents to take in life saving information from him! Mark 10:13-16

Such young ones will be remembered during resurrection because they joined others in taking in spiritual food from the Christ.
But what about children who never had the opportunity to learn from Jesus perhaps due to their age around a day to 3 years of age?

If their parents make it to Paradise God will take all tears away from the eyes of survivors {Revelations 21:3-4} so their children will be brought back to them as resurrected ones.

But if such children never had believing parents nor the opportunity to listen and take in life saving messages then they are gone forever because they have no families expecting them in Paradise couple with the fact that they are sinners! Psalms 9:17

So the wages of sin is DEATH and all sinners go to hell (grave) whether adult or babies!