Image123:


But for YEARS, you've being unable to produce scriptures or even twist any that bars or discouraged tithes on gentile soil.

Deuteronomy 12:10 (KJV) 10 But [when] ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and [when] he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;

Deuteronomy 12:11 (KJV) 11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Thither shall ye bring all that I command you.... Hmmmm sure looks like God did not want tithing to be done on Gentile soil to me. He told the children of Israel not to tithe until they were no longer on Gentile soil. Begin tithing once you cross Jordan and enter the land
He promised to Jacob.

The Gentiles did not know God's command to tithe. God still did not want tithes from Gentile soil.

Psalms 147:19 (KJV) 19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psalms 147:20 (KJV) 20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and [as for his] judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

And at the Jerusalem Council, it was decided by, not just the Apostles, but by the Holy Ghost as well, that the Gentiles were NOT to be required to keep the Law. The tithe command was God's Law, and it was for Israel only.... no other nation.

Romans 7:1 (KJV) 1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Romans 7:2 (KJV) 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.

Romans 7:3 (KJV) 3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:4 (KJV) 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

When you teach people in Nigeria, Canada, etc., that God expects tithes today, you teach them to be unfaithful to Jesus Christ. You teach them to commit spiritual adultery. You teach them Law that was never meant for them.

Matthew 15:9 (KJV) 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

Image is very deceitful. He has been shown all of these truths many times and he, being the stubborn one he accuses me of being, refuses to accept what is clearly written in God's Holy Bible.

PART 1 The tithers and anti-tithers


make me sef contribute here

My observation is that you can argue both tithing and anti-tithing points from the same bible
just like you can argue both the "once saved always saved" vs "continued repentance" gospel from the same bible


For now, what is in vogue is the tithing gospel
it is appealing to both leaders and followers because it seems to suggest that if you invest in God through the leaders, then God will bless both with riches and more.

The tithing gospel was not previously prevalent -at least, not in the early Nigerian churches
But as Men like Arcbishop Idahosa preached this gospel, they got richer from the few that stepped out in Faith to tithe and "sow"
As folks watched these pastors get richer, the followers that initially hesitated started bringing in their money hoping to tap into this wealth-increasing anointing.
The pastors and their ministries got richer as this gospel increased.

Of course, from this little story, you can easily see one of the ways in which the leaders got richer
The question then is
"did the followers also increase in 'blessings'?"

Interestingly, from my observation, YES they did increase.
If you knew how xtians and xtianity was some decades back, you'd appreciate the increase.

This might be a miracle, but can it be explained using simple logic?
YES it can

PART 2 The tithers and anti-tithers

An explanation to how the miracle of tithing worked is this.

Men like Idahosa started poor.
they gradually grew their churches and at the same time started preaching about giving to get wealth
Folks back then were very stubborn in money issues unlike today

As Idahosa started "performing miracles", some of his followers began to trust in him as the oracle of God
So when men like him showed scriptures that promised God's reward if they give
it was gradually accepted as God talking through them

So the followers gave, and the leaders got wealthier
With the new wealth of the leaders, the leaders became confident enough to rub shoulders with Military administrators and top bureacrats
Some of this public administrators became members of their churches
and also bought into the God investment thing

Xtians that were previously church rats began to have church friends in governmental high places
They began to get contracts ... Praise the lord
and they in turn hired members of their churches for different activities
so the money percolated through to many members of the churches
in turn, the members of the churches gave more believing that it was their investment in God that was yielding such massive returns

and so, the beautiful vortex continued
giving, receiving, growing bigger, more confident, more network, giving ........

Winners is a good example of such model
my friends in Winners where receiving contracts and getting employment quickly through espirit-de-corp of fellow Winners

PART 3 The tithers and anti-tithers

So YES, tithing is a model that works for the church collectively (miracle or no miracle)
I am not sure about how it works (if it does) for individual members


But for Goshen360 et al who are also scripturally showing that tithing should not be in play
This is what I have to say to them.

Folks don't give necessarily for the love of God. They sow because the want to reap.
If you show them a new way to reap, they will listen and follow you

And just like pastor chris smartly forced his gospel of "once saved always saved" on Nigerians through the use of "miracles" which Nigerians like.

Your anti-tithing team would have to be perceived to be the oracle of God to be successful in pushing through this anti-tithing alternative gospel
Then you will see all these pro-tithing follow-the-leader commentators suddenly switching sides and becoming the ant-tithing advocates
They are called sheep for a reason.

So pursue the vision if you feel strongly about it and don't bother with the minions

So their increase was due to "social networking", not because of something God had done.

Proverbs 17:4 (KJV)
A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; [and] a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue.

^^^
Proverbs 23:9 Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, For he will despise the wisdom of your words.

MarkMiwerds:
Deuteronomy 12:10 (KJV) 10 But [when] ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and [when] he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;

Deuteronomy 12:11 (KJV) 11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Thither shall ye bring all that I command you.... Hmmmm sure looks like God did not want tithing to be done on Gentile soil to me. He told the children of Israel not to tithe until they were no longer on Gentile soil. Begin tithing once you cross Jordan and enter the land
He promised to Jacob.

The Gentiles did not know God's command to tithe. God still did not want tithes from Gentile soil.

Psalms 147:19 (KJV) 19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psalms 147:20 (KJV) 20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and [as for his] judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

And at the Jerusalem Council, it was decided by, not just the Apostles, but by the Holy Ghost as well, that the Gentiles were NOT to be required to keep the Law. The tithe command was God's Law, and it was for Israel only.... no other nation.

Romans 7:1 (KJV) 1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Romans 7:2 (KJV) 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.

Romans 7:3 (KJV) 3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:4 (KJV) 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

When you teach people in Nigeria, Canada, etc., that God expects tithes today, you teach them to be unfaithful to Jesus Christ. You teach them to commit spiritual adultery. You teach them Law that was never meant for them.

Matthew 15:9 (KJV) 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

MarkMiwerds:
Image is very deceitful. He has been shown all of these truths many times and he, being the stubborn one he accuses me of being, refuses to accept what is clearly written in God's Holy Bible.

So from the above scriptures, it is clearly written that tithes are barred from gentile land? What a conclusion.

Image123:


So from the above scriptures, it is clearly written that tithes are barred from gentile land? What a conclusion.

and still, you fail to see the truth.

MarkMiwerds:
and still, you fail to see the truth.

All you did was put up a couple of passages, some having no relationship with tithes even, then you arrived at your private conclusion. That is twisted.

Instead of accepting "tithes" from their Church members, Pastors/Elders/Bishops/Apostles or whaever other tithe they want to be identified as need to quit encouraging their comgregations to tithe. Stop buying tithe envelopes. Tear up (or burn) the tithe envelopes that you've already purchased.

God's Holy Word does not give you authority to receive tithes. The last place tithes are commanded in the Bible, (Hebrews 7:5- they are to be received by Levites... Not Pastors. Every time your Church receives tithes, it has committed an act of robbery. It has taken the property of another...that which rightfully belongs to the Levites.

If your members insist on tithing, teach them to make yearly trips to Israel to take their tithes to those whom God's Word says are the rightful owners of His tithes... Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in Israel.

As long as you continue to receive tithes in your Church, you will remain a God-robber, for you will be robbing the rightful owners of His tithes.

In the Bible, God's tithe was never commanded for, carried to, or controlled by the Church.

Image123:

But for YEARS, you've being unable to produce scriptures or even twist any that bars or discouraged tithes on gentile soil.

Are you referring to God's tithe or pastoral tithe? God's tithe is strictly for the Jews. Pastoral tithe (instituted by pastors!) can be paid anywhere as long as there is a pastor to collect. after all it's their money

God's tithe:
Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

Pastoral tithe (as defined by image 123):

Image123:

tithe is tithe, simply a tenth, 1/10 of anything or something.

Image123:
Tithe just means 1/10, 10% of something........If you decide to pay your tithes today,its simply calculated as 10% of your earning,income,increase,wateva

Zikkyy:


Are you referring to God's tithe or pastoral tithe? God's tithe is strictly for the Jews. Pastoral tithe (instituted by pastors!) can be paid anywhere as long as there is a pastor to collect. after all it's their money

God's tithe:
Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

Pastoral tithe (as defined by image 123):

And notice Image's tithe nowhere resembles any tithe spoken of in the Bible.

Zikkyy:


Are you referring to God's tithe or pastoral tithe? God's tithe is strictly for the Jews. Pastoral tithe (instituted by pastors!) can be paid anywhere as long as there is a pastor to collect. after all it's their money

God's tithe:
Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

Pastoral tithe (as defined by image 123):

Oh here you are, the dishonest fellow who comes to this section to talk tithe. You forgot that a tithe is a tenth and a tenth is a tithe. no matter how much you hate it, 10% continues to remain a tithe.

MarkMiwerds:
And notice Image's tithe nowhere resembles any tithe spoken of in the Bible.

You would have a problem still if it resembled 'tithe spoken of in the Bible.' i don't tithe to you, deal with that.

Image123:


You would have a problem still if it resembled 'tithe spoken of in the Bible.' i don't tithe to you, deal with that.

you also don't tithe to whom God said His tithes were to be given. You support and defend a God-robber.

You need to deal with that before you stand before God.

MarkMiwerds:
you also don't tithe to whom God said His tithes were to be given. You support and defend a God-robber.

You need to deal with that before you stand before God.

It don't stop me from standing before God. There you go again with your subtle threat of God's wrath or not being pleased that i tithe. The same you would condemn others for threatening folks that don't tithe. Abraham didn't get the stick, neither did Jacob, neither will i or others that tithe. Let this truth sink.

Image123:


It don't stop me from standing before God. There you go again with your subtle threat of God's wrath or not being pleased that i tithe. The same you would condemn others for threatening folks that don't tithe. Abraham didn't get the stick, neither did Jacob, neither will i or others that tithe. Let this truth sink.

Why don't you always see what is being put forward?
Where do you find "subtle threat of God's wrath or not being pleased that i tithe"
in what he wrote?
He's simply asking you to think right.
Are you living out your spiritual life in line with the dictates of the New Covenant or is it that for you 'anything goes'?

MarkMiwerds:
you also don't tithe to whom God said His tithes were to be given. You support and defend a God-robber.

You need to deal with that before you stand before God.

And how does this address his post? Who do you think the levites and descendants of Abraham gave their tithes to while in the loins of Abraham? When someone calls you a bible illterate now you get angry..SMH!

trustman:


Why don't you always see what is being put forward?
Where do you find "subtle threat of God's wrath or not being pleased that i tithe"
in what he wrote?
He's simply asking you to think right.
Are you living out your spiritual life in line with the dictates of the New Covenant or is it that for you 'anything goes'?

When someone says " deal with that before you stand
before God." It is indicative that God will not be pleased with such act during JUDGEMENT. You're also blind i guess, so this explanation is pretty pointless on you.

Bidam:
And how does this address his post? Who do you think the levites and descendants of Abraham gave their tithes to while in the loins of Abraham? When someone calls you a bible illterate now you get angry..SMH!

your discerner is broken. I wasn't angry.

The Bible tells us who Abraham tithed to. You must have forgot that truth. It also tells us what those tithes consisted of.

Image123:


When someone says " deal with that before you stand
before God." It is indicative that God will not be pleased with such act during JUDGEMENT. You're also blind i guess, so this explanation is pretty pointless on you.

news flash... He won't be pleased with it. Strange fire is not His desire.

MarkMiwerds:
news flash... He won't be pleased with it. Strange fire is not His desire.

There we have it. Next time, don't condemn others who say God is not pleased with non-tithers. Your hypocrite friends are reading and should take notes.

MarkMiwerds:
your discerner is broken. I wasn't angry.

The Bible tells us who Abraham tithed to. You must have forgot that truth. It also tells us what those tithes consisted of.

He didn't say you WERE angry, you exhibit poor comprehension of both bible and fellow man. He anticipated your future anger IF he says xyz. Abraham tithed to God, i tithe to God. Don't forget that yet again.

Image123:


There we have it. Next time, don't condemn others who say God is not pleased with non-tithers. Your hypocrite friends are reading and should take notes.

you are forgetting one important factor... God never commanded us to tithe, so God's pleasure or displeasure is not hinged on whether we tithe or not.

However, you attempt to obey the Law by doing things your way, on your terms... Which, according to the Bible does displease Him.

MarkMiwerds:
you are forgetting one important factor... God never commanded us to tithe, so God's pleasure or displeasure is not hinged on whether we tithe or not.

However, you attempt to obey the Law by doing things your way, on your terms... Which, according to the Bible does displease Him.

MarkMiwerds:
news flash... He won't be pleased with it. Strange fire is not His desire.

Does this fellow read what he types? Am i the only one seeing this contradiction? It would be a milestone if trstman sees this for once.

What animal sacrifices do you prescribe for a healed leper seeing ALL scripture is inspired........?

Image123:


Does this fellow read what he types? Am i the only one seeing this contradiction? It would be a milestone if trstman sees this for once.

Image123:

Oh here you are, the dishonest fellow who comes to this section to talk tithe.

if you dey vex, you vex for ya self. its not ma business.

Image123:

You forgot that a tithe is a tenth and a tenth is a tithe.

@bolded, what if the tenth is not offered/paid as tithe?

Image123:

You forgot that a tithe is a tenth and a tenth is a tithe. no matter how much you hate it, 10% continues to remain a tithe.

You know i don't have issues with ya definition of tithe (as long as you don't call it God's tithe ). You can define tithe anyhow you want. We know tithing was not restricted to God's people, the Egyptians, Babylonians e.t.c practiced tithing as well. the question you should be asking ya self is whose tithe are you paying?

MarkMiwerds:
And notice Image's tithe nowhere resembles any tithe spoken of in the Bible.

I want to believe image123 pays the 'pastoral tithe'

Bidam:

Who do you think the levites and descendants of Abraham gave their tithes to while in the loins of Abraham? When someone calls you a bible illterate now you get angry..SMH!

Na wa oh! so levites and descendants of Abraham tithed while in the loins of Abraham. I guess it's okay for me to say Bidam worshipped and offered sacrifices to Sango/other African gods while in the loins of his great.....grandfather.

Image123:


Does this fellow read what he types? Am i the only one seeing this contradiction? It would be a milestone if trstman sees this for once.

You are the one who needs improvement in your cognition.
If the word of God says "Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord." and one finds a woman who is not doing so, it can then be said that her non-compliance is displeasing to God.
If the Word does not prescribe animal sacrifices for the church age it can be said that anyone who insists on it displeases God.
If tithing is not MANDATED for the Christian today and anyone insists on it claiming that it is required of the Christian as an obligation that too can be said to be displeasing to God.

This should be as clear as it can be.

vooks:
What animal sacrifices do you prescribe for a healed leper seeing ALL scripture is inspired........?

Are ALL scriptures inspired?